1. Chrono Trigger (1) 2. Resident Evil 4 (2) 3. Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow (3) 4. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (5) 5. Super Mario Galaxy (7) 6. Super Smash Bros. Melee (6) 7. Super Mario Galaxy 2 (8) 8. Super Mario 64 (9) 9. Super Mario Bros. 3 (10) 10. Super Mario World (4) 11. Final Fantasy VII (11) 12. Final Fantasy IX (13) 13. Metal Gear Solid (14) 14. Final Fantasy VI (12) 15. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (15) 16. Final Fantasy X (17) 17. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (16) 18. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (19) 19. Portal (20) 20. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (21) 21. Tales of Symphonia (18) 22. Okami (23) 23. Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (24) 24. Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 (22) 25. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (25)
Dropped out: None
Also receiving votes:
17 - Paper Mario 11 - Star Fox 64 10 - Mario Kart 64 7 - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door 7 - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials & Tribulations 4 - Half-Life 2 3 - Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal 2 - Mega Man X 1 - Metroid Prime
Doesn't seem to matter how many Mario games lose, FFVII still can't work its way into the top 10, and Melee can't get into the top 5. Mario World holds on at 10, while Galaxy's win over FFVI allows it to leapfrog Melee into the top 5 to become the highest ranked Mario game. FFVI only falls a couple of spots for its own loss. Symphonia dropped three spots for no apparent reason, perhaps just due to the shortage of voters. For the first time in a while, no games dropped out of the polls.
300 - Chrono Trigger 285 - Resident Evil 4 273 - Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow 248 - The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 242 - Super Mario Galaxy 240 - Super Smash Bros. Melee 226 - Super Mario Galaxy 2 218 - Super Mario 64 205 - Super Mario Bros. 3 194 - Super Mario World 170 - Final Fantasy VII 163 - Final Fantasy IX 144 - Metal Gear Solid 127 - Final Fantasy VI 110 - The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 106 - Final Fantasy X 99 - The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 95 - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney 90 - Portal 72 - Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 70 - Tales of Symphonia 47 - Okami 43 - Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest 42 - Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 19 - Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 17 - Paper Mario 11 - Star Fox 64 10 - Mario Kart 64 7 - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door 7 - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials & Tribulations 4 - Half-Life 2 3 - Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal 2 - Mega Man X 1 - Metroid Prime
LOL Saturday voting
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"Stay with me until the end. Please." "Not until the end. Always."
Do I seriously see a Zelda game ahead of all Marios?
Ridiculous chain of destruction:
Burnout 3 > Uncharted 1 > Hotel Dusk > Resident Evil 2 > Suikoden III > Mortal Kombat II > Gunstar Heroes > Shining Force II > Demon's Souls > Crash Bandicoot: Warped > Brave Fencer Musashi > Viewtiful Joe > Shadow of the Colossus > Mega Man 3 > Pokemon RSE > Mega Man 9 > Devil May Cry 3 > The World Ends with You > Metal Gear Solid 2 > Super Metroid > Final Fantasy VI > Super Mario Galaxy 2 > Super Mario Galaxy
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Games of the Decades Conference) (3-17, 0-2) – 14 (38.89%) Sonic Colors (Games of the Decades Conference) (7-13, 1-1) – 22 (61.11%) --Sonic Colors has no problems beating CoD4 and getting its first conference win.
Contra (Games of the Decades Conference) (10-10, 1-1) – 19 (57.58%) Shining Force II (Games of the Decades Conference) (5-15, 0-2) – 14 (42.42%) --Contra beats Shining Force II to get to double digit wins along with its double digit losses.
Earthbound (Games of the Decades Conference) (11-9, 1-1) – 12 (31.58%) Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal (Games of the Decades Conference) (16-4, 2-0) – 26 (68.42%) --Pokemon strikes gold as it brings its opponent down to earth.
Final Fantasy VIII (Games of the Decades Conference) (13-7, 1-1) – 19 (48.72%) Paper Mario (Games of the Decades Conference) (16-4, 2-0) – 20 (51.28%) --This was a back and forth match all day long, but Paper Mario finished the day on top.
Max Payne (Games of the Decades Conference) (3-17, 0-2) – 4 (11.76%) Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (Games of the Decades Conference) (12-8, 1-1) – 30 (88.24%) --MGS2 falls just shy of a 90% performance against Max Payne.
SoulCalibur II (Games of the Decades Conference) (14-6, 1-1) – 17 (44.74%) #15 The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (Games of the Decades Conference) (17-3, 2-0) – 21 (55.26%) --SC2 puts up a good fight, but Majora's Mask keeps it at bay to get the win.
Banjo-Kazooie (Sonic Overload Conference) (12-8, 1-1) – 15 (40.54%) Sonic 3 & Knuckles (Sonic Overload Conference) (15-5, 2-0) – 22 (59.46%) --Banjo discovers that facing S3&K isn't quite as easy as facing Sonic CD.
Bioshock (Sonic Overload Conference) (13-7, 1-1) – 18 (54.55%) Mother 3 (Sonic Overload Conference) (10-10, 0-2) – 15 (45.45%) --Bioshock struggles to get past Mother 3, but it does get the win in the end after last week's tough loss.
Chrono Cross (Sonic Overload Conference) (10-10, 0-2) – 16 (47.06%) Half-Life 2 (Sonic Overload Conference) (16-4, 1-1) – 18 (52.94%) --Chrono Cross puts up another good showing in defeat, but Half-Life 2 squeaks it out to avoid an 0-2 start in conference play.
Civilization IV (Sonic Overload Conference) (13-7, 2-0) – 21 (61.76%) Guitar Hero II (Sonic Overload Conference) (2-18, 1-1) – 13 (38.24%) --Civ4 takes care of business against Guitar Hero II.
Final Fantasy Tactics (Sonic Overload Conference) (16-4, 2-0) – 27 (79.41%) Gears of War (Sonic Overload Conference) (1-19, 0-2) – 7 (20.59%) --FFT blasts Gears of War, as expected.
Sonic Adventure 2 (Sonic Overload Conference) (18-2, 2-0) – 24 (66.67%) Sonic CD (Sonic Overload Conference) (3-17, 0-2) – 12 (33.33%) --3-D Sonic doubles up 2-D Sonic.
Brave Fencer Musashi (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (2-18, 0-2) – 7 (20.00%) #7 Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (18-2, 2-0) – 28 (80.00%) --Galaxy 2 beats Musashi by three touchdowns.
Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (8-12, 0-2) – 13 (38.24%) Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (13-7, 2-0) – 21 (61.76%) --Persona 3 gets a relatively easy win over DQ5 to get to 2-0 in conference play.
Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (17-3, 1-1) – 23 (63.89%) Shadow Hearts (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (9-11, 1-1) – 13 (36.11%) --Path of Radiance rebounds from last week's tough loss to get an easy win over SH1.
God of War II (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (6-14, 0-2) – 15 (33.33%) Pokemon Black/White (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (14-6, 2-0) – 30 (66.67%) --Black/White doubles up GoW2.
Gunstar Heroes (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (6-14, 0-2) – 14 (41.18%) Ogre Battle 64 (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (4-16, 1-1) – 20 (58.82%) --Ogre Battle gets its first conference win by taking down Gunstar Heroes.
#21 Tales of Symphonia (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (18-2, 2-0) – 26 (61.90%) World of Goo (Cult RPG Galaxy Conference) (8-12, 1-1) – 16 (38.10%) --Symphonia keeps pace with Galaxy 2 with a win over World of Goo.
Disgaea: Hour of Darkness (Nintendo Objections Conference) (9-11, 0-2) – 15 (36.59%) Super Metroid (Nintendo Objections Conference) (14-6, 2-0) – 26 (63.41%) --Super Metroid gets an easy win over Disgaea as it attempts to turn things around in conference play.
#23 Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (Nintendo Objections Conference) (16-4, 1-1) – 20 (43.48%) #8 Super Mario 64 (Nintendo Objections Conference) (17-3, 2-0) – 26 (56.52%) --In a conference as loaded as this, you need to win these big matchups, so Mario 64's win over DKC2 could be huge down the road.
Elite Beat Agents (Nintendo Objections Conference) (3-17, 0-2) – 16 (43.24%) Suikoden II (Nintendo Objections Conference) (13-7, 1-1) – 21 (56.76%) --Suikoden II struggled a bit, but it managed to get the win in the end.
Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (Nintendo Objections Conference) (8-12, 0-2) – 20 (46.51%) Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald (Nintendo Objections Conference) (9-11, 1-1) – 23 (53.49%) --Kirby 64 put up a good fight, but it came up short against R/S/E.
#18 Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Nintendo Objections Conference) (17-3, 2-0) – 24 (53.33%) #3 Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow (Nintendo Objections Conference) (18-2, 1-1) – 21 (46.67%) --Phoenix Wright's power seems to be proportionate to how big the match is, and it came up big against R/B/Y today. PW may be in the right conference to take advantage of its power. And with that, there are no more 1 loss games, so CT and RE4 are two games up on everyone else.
Super Street Fighter IV (Nintendo Objections Conference) (4-16, 0-2) – 14 (35.00%) Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (Nintendo Objections Conference) (14-6, 2-0) – 26 (65.00%) --UC2 takes care of business and moves up to 2-0 on SSFIV.
Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (Thousand-Year World of Sunshine Conference) (12-8, 1-1) – 19 (42.22%) Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Thousand-Year World of Sunshine Conference) (15-5, 2-0) – 26 (57.78%) --TTYD wasn't going to let Aria of Sorrow score an upset over a Mario game for the second week in a row.
Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening (Thousand-Year World of Sunshine Conference) (11-9, 1-1) – 22 (57.89%) Marvel vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds (Thousand-Year World of Sunshine Conference) (5-15, 1-1) – 16 (42.11%) --All the Dante you can handle wrapped up in one match, and DMC3 comes out on top.
Fallout 3 (Thousand-Year World of Sunshine Conference) (13-7, 1-1) – 28 (70.00%) Marvel Ultimate Alliance (Thousand-Year World of Sunshine Conference) (2-18, 0-2) – 12 (30.00%) --Fallout gets back on track with a blowout of Ultimate Alliance.
Gitaroo Man (Thousand-Year World of Sunshine Conference) (0-20, 0-2) – 8 (23.53%) Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals (Thousand-Year World of Sunshine Conference) (7-13, 2-0) – 26 (76.47%) --Gitaroo Man is the first game to 20. Unfortunately for them, it's losses, not wins.
I wish I could say that PW win was at all surprising. Too bad we have to wait until Week 29 to see if it can take out SM64 too!
...I kinda want SM64 to just stomp through the conference until then so that Wrighto looks like as big an underdog as possible. He seems good at those situations. <_<
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Fight like dragons, have no fear, swords are made of STEEEEEEEEL~
I sort of assumed PW was going to win that one. Tough loss by AoS, but with all the face time it got for the upset last week it was expected it wouldn't duplicate that performance.
Awesome win by PW. I thought it would win right after seeing the matchup, and it's nice to see that it held on to do so. 'Twas foolish of me to demote Melee from #2 to #3 this week; should have stuck to my guns completely!
Now, the question is where to put PW: it has wins over 2 top 5 games, and losses to 2 top 10 games. Normally I'd just average it out and put it around #5 or 6, but it does have that other loss floating around. Hmm.....
Hmm.....my previous rank for PW was 14. This result against RBY implies a rank of 2 (not quite 1 since CT has crushed everything so far by big margins). (2 + 14*4)/5 = 11.6. That seems fair.
If there was an actual "line," it wouldn't have R/B/Y as the favorite in a neutral setting. Maybe if we were only a few games in where it didn't matter if one game was still undefeated and the other game had two losses because not enough had happened yet.
But CT and RE4 have made it 2/3 through the season without a loss while no other game has managed to avoid less than two.
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I'd put the line there at RBY (-1) vs. RE4. Even if I were to switch that around, and I guess I might after this match, I'd definitely not put RE4 (-3) vs. RBY.
This poses an interesting philosophical question on voting also. PW now has the 2nd most impressive collection of wins in the contest behind CT (and PW has even higher caliber opponents than CT, it just doesn't have the big margins of victory). Going by losses, however, PW is borderline top 25.
The question is: are we ranking based on win expectations against all other games, weighted the same, or do we weight strong opponents more? If we are ranking based on championships expectations, then we should definitely weight strong opponents more as those are the games any champion will have to defeat in the postseason.
In pro sports, we generally rank based on championship expectations because the only thing that matters is winning the championship. 2nd place is worthless. But should we do so here? Not sure about that.
Or, to express this in terms of Smash tier lists: if, hypothetically, Fox and Marth are far and away the best 2 characters, but there are 3 low tier characters that counter Fox, while Fox counters Marth, who should be ranked #1? If it's about winning in tournaments, Fox should, because you're going to encounter other Fox/Marth players a lot more than those low tier characters.
More or less what I thought. Also explains how Wind Waker only rose up one spot for upsetting T&T in week 3.
That means that the easiest way to move up in the RPI would be to simply sit there and watch those above fall, no? At the very least, I bet that's how stuff like SA2 has been moving up.
Okay, I randomly began thinking of a crapload of final rivalry week matches. Let's look at some particular franchises:
Mario Super Mario Bros. 3 vs. Super Mario Galaxy (3rd 2D Mario vs. 3rd 3D Mario) Super Mario World vs. Super Mario Galaxy 2 (4th 2D Mario vs. 4th 3D Mario) Super Mario 64 vs. Super Mario Sunshine Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars vs. Mario Kart 64 (GameFAQs rivalry) Paper Mario vs. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door F-Zero GX vs. Mario Kart DS Super Smash Bros. vs. Soulcalibur II Super Smash Bros. Melee vs. Super Smash Bros. Brawl Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island vs. Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (...Yoshi vs. Kirby, anyone?) LMS' Comments: Why oh why did that randomizer have to schedule the Mario Kart clash for week 13? Well at least I would've been stuck searching for an opponent for SMRPG otherwise. It was difficult for me to think of a good rival for SSB, but I ultimately chose SCII since that might very well be the one possible way we can see a Smash game lose to a "real" fighter.
Legend of Zelda/Mega Man/Sonic/Pokemon The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past vs. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening vs. Mega Man X (GameFAQs rivalry) The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask vs. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker vs. Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald Mega Man 2 vs. Mega Man 3 Mega Man Legends vs. Sonic Adventure (nostalgia-ridden 3D debut clash) Sonic CD vs. Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack in Time (time-travelling anthropomorphic animal clash!) Sonic 3 & Knuckles vs. Star Fox 64 (anthropomorphic animal clash) Sonic Adventure 2 vs. Sonic Colors (Sonic in Space!) Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow vs. Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal Pokemon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum vs. Pokemon Black/White LMS' Comments: Since Wind Waker and Link's Awakening are in the same conference, I had to find new opponents for them. Wind Waker is thus against RSE since both are Nintendo games released in '03.
Squaresoft RPGs Final Fantasy VI vs. Final Fantasy VIII Final Fantasy VII vs. Final Fantasy IX Final Fantasy Tactics vs. Final Fantasy X Secret of Mana vs. Xenogears (non-FF Squaresoft clash) LMS' Comments: I originally wanted FFVI vs. FFVII, but it looks like that's now an impossibility because FFIX has faced FFT, FFVIII, and FFX before. Nuts. I'm not sure where TWEWY would fit though...maybe against some lesser JRPG like Lufia II or Legend of Legaia? I was half-thinking about doing TWEWY vs. VC and Skies vs. Wind Waker (battle of the pirate-themed games!) but then I'm stuck finding an opponent for Pokemon RSE.
Metal Gear series Metal Gear Solid vs. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty vs. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
Capcom's Vs. Series Marvel vs. Capcom 2 vs. Viewtiful Joe Marvel vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds vs. Okami LMS' Comments: Couldn't think of a better opponent for either vs. title
Valve/Blizzard/Rocksteady/Irrational/Firaxis/Bethesda/Tim Schafer/Team ICO Half-Life 2 vs. Portal Diablo II vs. Team Fortress 2 (online multiplayer clash) StarCraft vs. Civilization IV (PC strategy clash) World of Warcraft vs. Fallout 3 (large-world WRPG clash) BioShock vs. Batman: Arkham Asylum (these two are oft-compared to each other) The Secret of Monkey Island vs. Grim Fandango Psychonauts vs. Shadow of the Colossus (clash of the artsy titles)
Obvious ones from poor little franchises that got only two games in Chrono Trigger vs. Chrono Cross Resident Evil 2 vs. Resident Evil 4 Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials & Tribulations Tales of Symphonia vs. Tales of Vesperia Castlevania: Symphony of the Night vs. Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow Shin Megamei Tensei: Persona 3 vs. Shin Megamei Tensei: Persona 4 Donkey Kong Country vs. Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest Super Metroid vs. Metroid Prime Fire Emblem 7 vs. Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance Assassin's Creed II vs. Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood Uncharted: Drake's Fortune vs. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves Skies of Arcadia vs. Valkyria Chronicles (well, they both have Vyse and share key development staff members!) Earthbound vs. Mother 3 Devil May Cry vs. Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening
I don't really need suggestions at this point. I have a pretty solid idea of what I'm going to do for the last Rivalry Week. It's the easiest one to do.
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"So cold. I am always by your side." "There ain't no gettin' off of this train we on!"
Mother 3 RPI (as of Week 19): 79 Record vs. 1-25: 0-4 (LttP, Chrono Trigger, SOTN, Portal) Record vs. 25-50: 0-1 (Fire Emblem 7) Record vs. 51-70: 1-1 (Win: Vesperia, Loss: Bioshock) Record vs. 70-85: 0-4 (F-Zero GX, Secret of Mana, Suikoden II, Civ IV) Losses vs. sub-85: 0 Effective Record: 1-10 Notable Matches: W 26-24 Viewtiful Joe W 25-23 Team Fortress 2 L 19-25 Secret of Mana W 22-20 Worms L 18-21 Suikoden W 23-17 Vesperia
With a little change, I wonder what'll be changed in terms of how analyses look. I've decided to limit it to 85 as those matches now represent games that, at least at this point in the season, might be in a bubble situation, effectively putting all worthwhile matches as ones inside the top half of the contest.
Honestly, Mother 3 needed to start out conference play 3-0 just to be on the bubble. Instead it's started out 0-2. Sorry, lefty, but it could be Final Fantasy IV and I couldn't find enough bias to put it on the bubble if it had performed as poorly as Mother 3 has so far.
Final Fantasy VIII RPI (as of Week 19): 47 Record vs. 1-25: 0-5 (Mario 64, FFIX, FFVII, DKC2, Paper Mario) Record vs. 25-50: 2-1 (Win: Twilight Princess, Brawl, Loss: Star Fox 64) Record vs. 51-70: 4-0 (Xenogears, AC2, MM2, Aria of Sorrow) Record vs. 70-85: 2-1 (Win: KHII, Grim Fandango, Loss: SOTC) Losses vs. sub-85: 0 Effective Record: 8-7 Notable Matches: Not Bothering, I Already Put Too Much Work Into This One
See the third-tier I listed? That's the tier that's going to make or break many games' tournament dreams. FFVIII isn't on the bubble, and won't be unless it collapses.