Board 8 > [MPFC] Most Powerful Fictional Character Lasers vs Stuff: Marisa Vs. Miracleman.

(+) Yeah! (+)

New rule~

1. No alt voting
2. Matches will last exactly 48 hours. If someone goes up 15 on their opponent and discussion is clearly over, the match might end early.
3. Be honest with your vote. I can't hold anyone to this, but just pick who you think will win the match regardless of other circumstances.
4. Feel free to debate how much and how ever you like.
5. Don't have fun, fun is your enemy.
6. Bold your vote!

The Bracket: http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?&tid=414772&tclass=

Last Match: Surfer stomped the living hell out of Lord Foul.

There will be spoilers for Touhou and the Miracleman series


Kirisame Marisa is a human witch from the Touhou series. She is a very high level magic user and condescending to her opponents, with her spells mostly dealing with light and heat. She basically makes things explode, and not much else, but those spells are quite good for that purpose, and a lot of them are very flashy for effect. It should also be noted she is a kleptomaniac, and if she should win this fight she will spend a good hour searching the corpse for any valuables to steal. She will not find anything though.

VERSUS

Kid Miracleman is from the comic Miracleman. He possesses superhuman strength, speed, stamina, and a whole host of other abilities such as telepathy, lasers, creating thunderclaps, all of that good and fine stuff.. What is most telling about him, however, is just how utterly ruthless he is. He had decades to stew and have his need for vengeance fester with himself. He kills just for the sake of killing most of the time, and in the most brutal inhuman way imaginable. Even to those who are kind to him, such a nurse that took care of his alter-ego, he killed her just because he thought people would say he had gone soft. He is without pity, without remorse, and probably doesn’t know the meaning of “holding back.”

Neutral, write ups are summations etc.

Kirisame Marisa is one of the main characters from Touhou. She's an "ordinary magician". Her signature attack is the Master Spark which is a giant lightspeed laser. This attack is amplified by a mini-Hakkero which resembles a small octagonal block. The mini-Hakkero is a potent source of magical energy and has the firepower to burn down a mountain. Marisa is from a curtain shooter game so she loves to flood the field with projectiles fired in all directions. Her other attacks include Blazing Star which is an attack where she fires Master Spark backwards and uses the acceleration to ram her opponent. Dragon Meteor is an attack where she flings herself high into the air by aiming Master Spark at the ground and rains Master Spark on her opponent. In terms of speed feats, Marisa can fire off Master Spark at an opponent several feet in front of her, fly a few feet into the air and fire another one before the first one hits. She is not capable of faster than light movement, though. In terms of durability, she doesn't get vaporized from moving at near light speed and she can survive the super high temperatures near an artificial sun. Marisa is also highly skilled at dodging projectiles. "Initiative is victory" Marisa has no problems rushing in first but not necessarily opening with her strongest attacks.

That's Marisa. What can Kid Miracleman do?

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Kid Miracleman can uh, he destroyed london.

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XFD There's no London in Gensokyo.

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Oh, I am one yet many.

KM is basically Captain Marvel (DC version) with some differences. He has an always up forcefield (Strong enough that he had the Bank of England dropped on his head without bothering him. The entire Bank of England), he has a kind of mind control (The sort where he gradually influences you to do what he wants without your noticing), he can shoot lightning. And...er, well, he's a meaaaaaan guy



What he did to London

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What he did to his nurse, the only person who was nice to him while he was locked up



I'll grab some more scans

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The Bank drop failing (Followed by KM beating up what amounted to Wonder Woman)




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He did it all in "a couple of hours" and he can uh fight over superhuman beings pretty well.

Oh and someone threw a bus at him and he wasn't scared or anything.

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Yeah, basically, he was chilling out in London, doing...that until the heroes finally decided to show up

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Then he got beaten up, but it was unfair they all ganged up on him and he still took out a few lamos before going down!

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Teleported directly into a marble archway. That didn't work either



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I wouldn't even say he got beaten up, so much as he took down everyone except that teleporter guy, who got the bright idea to teleport a rock past his forcefield and straight into his head. That hurt enough to make him escape with his Billy Batso...Johnny Bates transformation. After he went ahead and killed the teleporter, *with* a rock stuck in his head

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Basically, hitting him with everything from thousand ton buildings, to fire, to trying to beat him up on the floor of the ocean did nothing against his field. What worked was bypassing the field

Well, kind of, since he still managed to heat vision the guy who did it to death, before finally going 'Screw this' and bailing

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Do we have any details on his speed? I mean the bit tre wrote definitely ain't Marisa by what's shown for the initial problem there, mostly the speed stuff on her and her attack.

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

They never really go into details, aside from describing him as 'A blur of black lightning'. As said, he's an ersatz of Captain Marvel/Black Adam, so

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Only problem is if he is reverted to human form he's like the weakest thing ever.

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Which requires tricking him into saying the codeword (Worked once. He learned better the second time), or hurting him badly enough to make him revert

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...which basically requires either overpowering that damn field (something everyone assembled in those fights pictured couldn't do), or having a means to go past it

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so basically probably fast enough to deal with a touhou regardless of what that speed is exactly. which leaves it down to tankiness as personality's not an issue to whether he'd try to kill a loli.

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

Well, we know nothing those guys had fazed him (Miracleman, who is basically Captain Marvel, Miraclewoman, who is Mary Marvel, and Warpsmith, who is...no one, but a teleporter fast enough to be across the galaxy before Miracleman turned around)

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...and if this draws out to any degree, KM's telepathy comes into play. It was described as a black cloud that gets into your thoughts and shuts you down

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Is "A blur of black lightning" really fast enough to deal with someone who moves at near lightspeed?

Being able to tank having the Bank of England dropped on you isn't bad but he's up against fire power strong enough to burn down a mountain. Is that the best feat his shield has? Are there any examples of it being overpowered?

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marisa never really shows herself moving that fast. ditto for the attacks. yes, fast. not that fast, either one.

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

"In terms of speed feats, Marisa can fire off Master Spark at an opponent several feet in front of her, fly a few feet into the air and fire another one before the first one hits. She is not capable of faster than light movement, though."

She explicitly does that in Silent Sinner in Blue.

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How close do the other Miracleman characters come to the dudes they're similar to? Miracleman is similar to Captain Marvel, but is he actually as strong/tough/fast? Is Kid Miracleman physically on Black Adam's level, the same thing but weaker, same but stronger, etc?

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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny

No one ever actually overpowered the shield. He more or less just stomped on everyone, until Warpsmith zapped a rock into his skull (which didn't stop him from immediately dismembering Warpsmith with his laser eyes, but it did get him to go away afterwards)

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Power levels are hard to pin down, since Miracleman enjoys its flowery prose. But lots of talk about how these guys are physical gods. The KM/Miracleman/Miraclewoman fight that happens right before the bank dropping thing is described as flattening what was left of London in a few seconds

Earlier in the series, Miracleman does stuff like casually rip out hearts and fly through people fast enough to make them explode. KM is explicitly described as way out of Miracleman's league, due to never bothering with a human identity. He stayed in jacked up form for 25 years, gaining new powers

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what's so special about silent whatever anyway compared to all the other touhou stuff out there. like for the most part it makes the most sense to stick it straight to touhou canon as opposed to its looser variations.

and any scans if it's actually worth a damn.

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

Anyway, what's the likelihood of Marisa opening with the really big guns? I'm inclined to think that if she doesn't, KM just kind of zips in and rips her loli head off, since smaller stuff is not going to throw him off track. He's too mean

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How exactly is she incapable of faster than light speed if she can shoot a light speed attack, move, and then shoot ANOTHER one before the first one hits?

At any ways, it's at or close to light speed at the very least. I dunno about KM but Supes and Captain Marvel definitely couldn't pull that off. It sounds like the touhou has this unless KM can tank magic like there's no tomorrow then it might be a stalemate.

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...supes most definitely can pull that off O_o. he's done worse.

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

If they stalemate, KM ends up winning with telepathy shenanigans, unless Marisa has a way around that

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From: Wanglicious | #031
...supes most definitely can pull that off O_o. he's done worse.

Oh can he? Nevermind then. I knew he was really damn fast but not that fast.

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Supes is the guy who escapes double black holes by flying around them really fast. Yeah

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supes has to slow down to do the infinite mass punch (user goes at light speed and punches someone) even. i mean he's not miracleman, black adam, or captain marvel so it doesn't exactly matter there, but yeah, he's easily faster, stronger, and tankier than captain marvel or black adam, but he isn't ruthless, which holds him back. i know very little on miracleman so can't be of use to that one.

that said i'm also not sure where the idea was that master spark was light speed either. <_<;

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

That I got from TRE's post

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Basically, for KM, picture Black Adam, then put Carnage's brain in his head. You'd be close

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Well, except for being way the hell smarter than Carnage. Dude made himself into a billionaire CEO through abusing his mind control, with no one the wiser that he was really a homicidal loon. When he finally got to drop the act, he said something like 'You have no idea how much it irritated me to have to pretend all these years'

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And right after the reveal...



...yeah

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what's so special about silent whatever anyway compared to all the other touhou stuff out there. like for the most part it makes the most sense to stick it straight to touhou canon as opposed to its looser variations.

and any scans if it's actually worth a damn.

Silent Sinner is Blue is an official Touhou manga. It was written by Zun, the creator of Touhou. It's absolutely canon. The scene I'm referring to is in Chapter 15 pages 15 to 21. Marisa says that there's nothing in the world that moves faster than light in reference to her "Final Spark" attack which is a form of her Master Spark. She fires the attack at her opponent and her opponent acknowledges that the attack is made of light. I say Marisa can't move faster than light because of the line she says about nothing being able to move faster than light. After this first attempt, Marisa tried the "Double Spark" attack which is firing a Master Spark at her opponent then flying into the air and firing another one before the first hits. I'd post scans, but I'm a mod. >_> They shouldn't be too hard to find, though.

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Again, what's the likelihood of her actually going to this stuff right off the bat? I don't like her odds of staying alive if she tries smaller stuff. KM will just kind of ignore it, then rip her face off

Not really convinced Master Spark could do much, either, given the stuff KM tanked (Bank to the head, standing and fighting on the ocean floor)

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So what would happen if Miracleman managed to land a punch on Marisa? AFAIK fights in Touhou are mostly done with spells/energy, not physical attacks. Does the series have any physical durability feats?

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for your phantomile....

She won't open with Master Spark right off the bat. She'll try a few random other spells first look flooding the area with star shaped energy balls. If that prove ineffective, she'll move on to Master Spark fairly quickly. Marisa is quite fast. Will Kid Miracleman be able to hit her?

How quickly does Kid Miracleman resort to telepathy and what can he do with it? Can he use it effectively on a speeding target while under constant bombardment from Marisa? If he can get it off, I think he'll win. Marisa shouldn't have any particularly special defense against telepathy.

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Touhou has pretty much nothing in terms of durability feats. Marisa doesn't get vaporized from moving at near light speed and she can survive the super high temperatures near an artificial sun. She survives getting thrown around by an Oni during parties but that's not a combat situation or very quantified.

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Also if Miracleman is fast enough to tag Marisa with a punch, I can't see Marisa winning. Speed and Evasion should be her strongest points. If she can be hit once, she can be hit multiple times and even optimistically she won't survive very many hits

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It's more of a subtle thing than a standard telepathy attack. He clouds your mind over, gradually making you black out. Did seem to need some measure of concentration for it, though

Don't think it really matters much here, though. If Marisa can't take a punch, Kid Miracleman just kind of kills her dead in a blitz. It seems he's plenty fast enough to tag her, given the whole 'City smashed in seconds' thing, and one tag will do it

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We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable

Another thing is, the nature of that forcefield of his seems to make it so he doesn't really feel pain, except for stuff hitting hard enough to punch through it. The smaller scale opening attacks will do nothing, which doesn't really bode well, if he can kill her by swooping through it and punching

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We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable

Kid Miracleman

Sounds like with his shield keeping away anything except *maybe* her biggest guns (which may or may not be enough to handle him) and her liking to use smaller stuff early and him liking to murder the crap out of things without hesitation, he's got this one.

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

I 'm not really convinced he's fast enough to tag Marisa. You cited earlier that "Miracleman does stuff like casually rip out hearts and fly through people fast enough to make them explode. KM is explicitly described as way out of Miracleman's league". But you can be several orders of magnitude slower than the speed of light and still be able to do things like that. I'm not even sure you need to go much higher a few hundred times the speed of sound to do that.

You also said that their fight is "described as flattening what was left of London in a few seconds". How much of London is left? Couldn't this be more due to the power of the attacks rather than speed? If their attacks are leveling several dozen city blocks at a time, leveling a city should be a fairly quick job.

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Also is this London reasonably close to the real life London in size? Something moving at the speed of light can fly around the parameter of London ~1500 times in a second. Flattening the remains of London is a few seconds isn't all the impressive compared to that. Marisa isn't as fast as light and it's hard to say exactly how far down from it she is. However, I don't see anything that suggests she couldn't run circles around Kid Miracleman.


My current perception of the fight is Kid Miracleman will immediately go on the offensive and try to kill Marisa. Marisa is just simply too fast and will dodge the initial attacks. Marisa will fly around dodging all of the rest of Kid Miracleman's attacks as well. She'll flood the field with projectiles which Kid Miracleman can tank. After a few failed attempts, she'll bust out the Master Spark. With her speed and speed of the attack, Kid Miracleman shouldn't be able to dodge. It comes down to just how strong Kid Miracleman's durability really is. Can he really stand up to repeated attacks from power that can reduce a single mountain to ashes? If he can't, Marisa should win. If he can, Marisa has lost. He'll get his telepathy to work eventually and be able to tag Marisa.

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