Board 8 > Twostuck: Second (Third) Time's The Charm

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Viktor Vaughn 02/15/12 9:18:00 AM #351:	From: KanzarisKelshen \| #346 2) This is actually feasible, but it also runs counter to pre-established rules. Can't use it, but it's a good idea. :-/ our version of sburb obviously just has less exploits -- bad advice http://www.last.fm/user/snowcampsoldier <cite>Viktor Vaughn posted [p:674312] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> From: KanzarisKelshen \| #3462) This is actually feasible, but it also runs counter to pre-established rules. Can't use it, but it's a good idea. :-/our version of sburb obviously just has less exploits -- bad advicehttp://www.last.fm/user/snowcampsoldier </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 11:36:00 AM #352:	What's the answer to 'my future self from after winning the game goes back and hands me his final weapon'? What's the answer to 'I kill an imp and travel back while gristtorrent distributes my grist, then do it again until we all have infinite money'? What's the answer to 'the time player is doing more than everybody else and making it the time show because I have to keep leashing him 24/7'? 1. Assuming 'beat the game' future self is part of the alpha timeline, then he did not go back and give himself the ultimate weapon because that would create a diverging timeline, aka not alpha, aka doomed timeline. If he DID receive such a weapon, then the weapon came from nowhere and is thus a paradox and thus a doomed timeline. The problem solves itself. 2. Anti-temporal grist economy inflation countermeasures built into the gristtorrent program 3. The piles and piles of dead selves piling up. In piles. Alternatively: technobabble induced temporal interference >_>;; "If you time travel again the quantum instability of the tachyons will accelerate and cause an irreversible chain reaction causing everything everywhere to blow up" -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674313] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> What's the answer to 'my future self from after winning the game goes back and hands me his final weapon'?What's the answer to 'I kill an imp and travel back while gristtorrent distributes my grist, then do it again until we all have infinite money'?What's the answer to 'the time player is doing more than everybody else and making it the time show because I have to keep leashing him 24/7'?1. Assuming 'beat the game' future self is part of the alpha timeline, then he did not go back and give himself the ultimate weapon because that would create a diverging timeline, aka not alpha, aka doomed timeline. If he DID receive such a weapon, then the weapon came from nowhere and is thus a paradox and thus a doomed timeline. The problem solves itself.2. Anti-temporal grist economy inflation countermeasures built into the gristtorrent program3. The piles and piles of dead selves piling up. In piles. Alternatively: technobabble induced temporal interference >_>;; "If you time travel again the quantum instability of the tachyons will accelerate and cause an irreversible chain reaction causing everything everywhere to blow up" -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 12:35:00 PM #353:	1. Assuming 'beat the game' future self is part of the alpha timeline, then he did not go back and give himself the ultimate weapon because that would create a diverging timeline, aka not alpha, aka doomed timeline. If he DID receive such a weapon, then the weapon came from nowhere and is thus a paradox and thus a doomed timeline. The problem solves itself. A weapon coming from nowhere doesn't create a paradox, but a stable time loop. I receive a weapon from my future self, and later in the timeline, I go back in time and give that weapon to my past self. This is entirely self-consistent. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674314] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> 1. Assuming 'beat the game' future self is part of the alpha timeline, then he did not go back and give himself the ultimate weapon because that would create a diverging timeline, aka not alpha, aka doomed timeline. If he DID receive such a weapon, then the weapon came from nowhere and is thus a paradox and thus a doomed timeline. The problem solves itself.A weapon coming from nowhere doesn't create a paradox, but a stable time loop. I receive a weapon from my future self, and later in the timeline, I go back in time and give that weapon to my past self. This is entirely self-consistent. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 1:04:00 PM #354:	*Sceptilesolarbeam posted...* 1. Assuming 'beat the game' future self is part of the alpha timeline, then he did not go back and give himself the ultimate weapon because that would create a diverging timeline, aka not alpha, aka doomed timeline. If he DID receive such a weapon, then the weapon came from nowhere and is thus a paradox and thus a doomed timeline. The problem solves itself. A weapon coming from nowhere doesn't create a paradox, but a stable time loop. I receive a weapon from my future self, and later in the timeline, I go back in time and give that weapon to my past self. This is entirely self-consistent. tell me of the origin of the weapon then, if it always comes from a future self and always is used by the past self until he becomes the future self to give the sword to the past. there has to have been an original timeline where the future self was not handed the weapon but earned it because otherwise the sword is literally coming from nothing. thus, violating this initial timeline would result in a diverging timeline. it is no different than finding a mysterious sheet of paper with the cure for a disease written on it, publishing that disease, then years later sending the cure back in time so that your past self could find it. there was no actual research bringing about that cure. information from nothing. same deal. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674315] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Sceptilesolarbeam posted...1. Assuming 'beat the game' future self is part of the alpha timeline, then he did not go back and give himself the ultimate weapon because that would create a diverging timeline, aka not alpha, aka doomed timeline. If he DID receive such a weapon, then the weapon came from nowhere and is thus a paradox and thus a doomed timeline. The problem solves itself.A weapon coming from nowhere doesn't create a paradox, but a stable time loop. I receive a weapon from my future self, and later in the timeline, I go back in time and give that weapon to my past self. This is entirely self-consistent.tell me of the origin of the weapon then, if it always comes from a future self and always is used by the past self until he becomes the future self to give the sword to the past. there has to have been an original timeline where the future self was not handed the weapon but earned it because otherwise the sword is literally coming from nothing. thus, violating this initial timeline would result in a diverging timeline.it is no different than finding a mysterious sheet of paper with the cure for a disease written on it, publishing that disease, then years later sending the cure back in time so that your past self could find it. there was no actual research bringing about that cure. information from nothing. same deal. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 1:21:00 PM #355:	tell me of the origin of the weapon then, if it always comes from a future self and always is used by the past self until he becomes the future self to give the sword to the past. It doesn't have one. That's why it's a stable timeloop. Where did the Colonel Sassacre book with Nanna's writing in it come from? Your view of time sounds plausible, but it's actually nonsensical because there's no such thing as an original timeline when it comes to loops. Circles don't have beginnings. So yes, the weapon, or the information on a cure, necessarily comes from nothing, but in this model of time travel, that's possible. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674316] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> tell me of the origin of the weapon then, if it always comes from a future self and always is used by the past self until he becomes the future self to give the sword to the past. It doesn't have one. That's why it's a stable timeloop.Where did the Colonel Sassacre book with Nanna's writing in it come from?Your view of time sounds plausible, but it's actually nonsensical because there's no such thing as an original timeline when it comes to loops. Circles don't have beginnings. So yes, the weapon, or the information on a cure, necessarily comes from nothing, but in this model of time travel, that's possible. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Maniac64 02/15/12 1:31:00 PM #356:	Yeah those types of time loops happen all the time in things. I hate them but they are pretty standard time travel mechanics. Really though the bigger problem with Time is that we've all seen how crazy it is in HS. Jack Noir is pretty much unstoppable, except when he runs into a Hero of Time who can freeze him and run. -- "Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris <cite>Maniac64 posted [p:674317] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Yeah those types of time loops happen all the time in things. I hate them but they are pretty standard time travel mechanics. Really though the bigger problem with Time is that we've all seen how crazy it is in HS. Jack Noir is pretty much unstoppable, except when he runs into a Hero of Time who can freeze him and run. -- "Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Luis_Sera89 02/15/12 1:32:00 PM #357:	A God of Time, sure. -- "Eet's game time..." <cite>Luis_Sera89 posted [p:674318] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> A God of Time, sure. -- "Eet's game time..." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 1:34:00 PM #358:	information can not come from nothing. particles might be able to, but a full fledged sword or paper with exact detail required to produce a cure? this simply does not exist in any world that has any chance at maintaining plausibility (while suspension of disbelief is one thing, as a great many facets of homestuck only pay token attention to reality, there are various fundamental guidelines that are set out for some things or else it is just meaningless chaos). circles do indeed have a beginning because they do not start out drawn. there is a point in time from which it will spring from nonexistence to existence. the time at which a person lays down their pencil or other such implement to set about drawing it. sure, you can form a loop with this completed circle and pass it from future to past to future to past, but this does not negate it having had an origin at some point in space-time and that via temporal shenanigans this origin is glossed over by such a loop. a divergence. an autowin if information can spring from nothingness. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674319] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> information can not come from nothing. particles might be able to, but a full fledged sword or paper with exact detail required to produce a cure? this simply does not exist in any world that has any chance at maintaining plausibility (while suspension of disbelief is one thing, as a great many facets of homestuck only pay token attention to reality, there are various fundamental guidelines that are set out for some things or else it is just meaningless chaos). circles do indeed have a beginning because they do not start out drawn. there is a point in time from which it will spring from nonexistence to existence. the time at which a person lays down their pencil or other such implement to set about drawing it.sure, you can form a loop with this completed circle and pass it from future to past to future to past, but this does not negate it having had an origin at some point in space-time and that via temporal shenanigans this origin is glossed over by such a loop. a divergence. an autowin if information can spring from nothingness. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 1:57:00 PM #359:	granted, it is still pretty much autowin territory as there isn't much stopping an alpha timeline hero of time from traveling to the past and arranging events carefully using information/items from doomed timelines (and thus not nothingness). in such an instance the alpha timeline would still be a divergence, though at this point divergence will have little meaning... essentially, the hero of time is the most useful and the most useless. in any string of possibilities there will be more favorable outcomes and least favorable ones. they all can happen if events unfold in certain ways and they all have the potential to be known by the hero of time. if the ultimate outcome, the alpha timeline, does not require time shenanigans to bring about, then the hero of time is redundant. if everything rolled the right way, there would be no need to alter the past. but for most other timelines not fortunate to be this ideal one, they can be nudged by the time hero so that they cross paths with such. i guess what i am saying here is that time travel invokes too many headaches and we're probably screwed beyond the help of time anyway. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674320] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> granted, it is still pretty much autowin territory as there isn't much stopping an alpha timeline hero of time from traveling to the past and arranging events carefully using information/items from doomed timelines (and thus not nothingness).in such an instance the alpha timeline would still be a divergence, though at this point divergence will have little meaning...essentially, the hero of time is the most useful and the most useless. in any string of possibilities there will be more favorable outcomes and least favorable ones. they all can happen if events unfold in certain ways and they all have the potential to be known by the hero of time. if the ultimate outcome, the alpha timeline, does not require time shenanigans to bring about, then the hero of time is redundant. if everything rolled the right way, there would be no need to alter the past. but for most other timelines not fortunate to be this ideal one, they can be nudged by the time hero so that they cross paths with such.i guess what i am saying here is that time travel invokes too many headaches and we're probably screwed beyond the help of time anyway. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 2:04:00 PM #360:	circles do indeed have a beginning because they do not start out drawn. there is a point in time from which it will spring from nonexistence to existence. the time at which a person lays down their pencil or other such implement to set about drawing it. That's not the metaphor I was using. information can not come from nothing. particles might be able to, but a full fledged sword or paper with exact detail required to produce a cure? this simply does not exist in any world that has any chance at maintaining plausibility (while suspension of disbelief is one thing, as a great many facets of homestuck only pay token attention to reality, there are various fundamental guidelines that are set out for some things or else it is just meaningless chaos). How do you know? I don't believe time travel exists, so making an assumption about what results are plausible and not is without basis when you don't have anything to compare it to. Your claim just boils down to 'well it just doesn't make sense!" Whether it does or not, it's still one of the few internally consistent models of time travel out there. In point of fact, your notion about the origin for a time loop is what's really paradoxical most of the time. Using the weapon example, let's say the weapon is obtained through legitimate means. Later in the timeline, it's passed back in time to before the weapon was obtained. Now you have no reason to actually get the weapon through normal means, and therefore the future's been changed such that it's no longer capable of giving you that weapon. That's a real paradox. Alternatively, maybe you go ahead and get the weapon anyway. Now it's been duplicated, hasn't it? Is that reasonable? -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674321] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> circles do indeed have a beginning because they do not start out drawn. there is a point in time from which it will spring from nonexistence to existence. the time at which a person lays down their pencil or other such implement to set about drawing it.That's not the metaphor I was using.information can not come from nothing. particles might be able to, but a full fledged sword or paper with exact detail required to produce a cure? this simply does not exist in any world that has any chance at maintaining plausibility (while suspension of disbelief is one thing, as a great many facets of homestuck only pay token attention to reality, there are various fundamental guidelines that are set out for some things or else it is just meaningless chaos).How do you know? I don't believe time travel exists, so making an assumption about what results are plausible and not is without basis when you don't have anything to compare it to.Your claim just boils down to 'well it just doesn't make sense!" Whether it does or not, it's still one of the few internally consistent models of time travel out there.In point of fact, your notion about the origin for a time loop is what's really paradoxical most of the time. Using the weapon example, let's say the weapon is obtained through legitimate means. Later in the timeline, it's passed back in time to before the weapon was obtained. Now you have no reason to actually get the weapon through normal means, and therefore the future's been changed such that it's no longer capable of giving you that weapon. That's a real paradox.Alternatively, maybe you go ahead and get the weapon anyway. Now it's been duplicated, hasn't it? Is that reasonable? -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 2:20:00 PM #361:	In point of fact, your notion about the origin for a time loop is what's really paradoxical most of the time. Using the weapon example, let's say the weapon is obtained through legitimate means. Later in the timeline, it's passed back in time to before the weapon was obtained. Now you have no reason to actually get the weapon through normal means, and therefore the future's been changed such that it's no longer capable of giving you that weapon. That's a real paradox. Alternatively, maybe you go ahead and get the weapon anyway. Now it's been duplicated, hasn't it? Is that reasonable? Not a paradox, it is not quite a loop either, unless you make it such. Yes, there has been a change and that change is legitimate. As long as the sword had an origin in space-time brought about by a sequence of events. And creating a duplicate would be likewise permissible, encouraged even. I have never disregarded the hax that time can cause, I was merely pointing out the logical impossibility of something springing from nothingness. Inference as to how the mechanics time travel might perform are by necessity a construct of imagination based on logical principles. Until we can observe some direct confirmation of time traveling existing in the material world this is all we can do. My claim requires just as much departure from tested facts as yours, but relies less on undue assertion. The only concession I make is that time travel is possible because we are speaking of a hero with such powers. I am not asserting knowledge, I am presenting my interpretation of time mechanics based on various logical principles, general knowledge of imagined time mechanics put forth by a number of people, and the BS alpha timeline stuff promoted by Homestuck itself. There are conflicting views and notions on the subject, as there are with most things. Some are more logical in their objections, while some completely disregard logic choosing to represent time travel as more magic deus ex machina than a potential serious phenomena. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674322] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> In point of fact, your notion about the origin for a time loop is what's really paradoxical most of the time. Using the weapon example, let's say the weapon is obtained through legitimate means. Later in the timeline, it's passed back in time to before the weapon was obtained. Now you have no reason to actually get the weapon through normal means, and therefore the future's been changed such that it's no longer capable of giving you that weapon. That's a real paradox.Alternatively, maybe you go ahead and get the weapon anyway. Now it's been duplicated, hasn't it? Is that reasonable?Not a paradox, it is not quite a loop either, unless you make it such. Yes, there has been a change and that change is legitimate. As long as the sword had an origin in space-time brought about by a sequence of events. And creating a duplicate would be likewise permissible, encouraged even.I have never disregarded the hax that time can cause, I was merely pointing out the logical impossibility of something springing from nothingness. Inference as to how the mechanics time travel might perform are by necessity a construct of imagination based on logical principles. Until we can observe some direct confirmation of time traveling existing in the material world this is all we can do. My claim requires just as much departure from tested facts as yours, but relies less on undue assertion. The only concession I make is that time travel is possible because we are speaking of a hero with such powers.I am not asserting knowledge, I am presenting my interpretation of time mechanics based on various logical principles, general knowledge of imagined time mechanics put forth by a number of people, and the BS alpha timeline stuff promoted by Homestuck itself. There are conflicting views and notions on the subject, as there are with most things. Some are more logical in their objections, while some completely disregard logic choosing to represent time travel as more magic deus ex machina than a potential serious phenomena. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 02/15/12 3:29:00 PM #362:	From: SovietOmega \| #352 What's the answer to 'my future self from after winning the game goes back and hands me his final weapon'? What's the answer to 'I kill an imp and travel back while gristtorrent distributes my grist, then do it again until we all have infinite money'? What's the answer to 'the time player is doing more than everybody else and making it the time show because I have to keep leashing him 24/7'? 1. Assuming 'beat the game' future self is part of the alpha timeline, then he did not go back and give himself the ultimate weapon because that would create a diverging timeline, aka not alpha, aka doomed timeline. If he DID receive such a weapon, then the weapon came from nowhere and is thus a paradox and thus a doomed timeline. The problem solves itself. 2. Anti-temporal grist economy inflation countermeasures built into the gristtorrent program 3. The piles and piles of dead selves piling up. In piles. Alternatively: technobabble induced temporal interference >_>;; "If you time travel again the quantum instability of the tachyons will accelerate and cause an irreversible chain reaction causing everything everywhere to blow up" Spoilers: There are no doomed timelines in this game, and it isn't because of 'perfect' play. -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:674323] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> From: SovietOmega \| #352What's the answer to 'my future self from after winning the game goes back and hands me his final weapon'?What's the answer to 'I kill an imp and travel back while gristtorrent distributes my grist, then do it again until we all have infinite money'?What's the answer to 'the time player is doing more than everybody else and making it the time show because I have to keep leashing him 24/7'?1. Assuming 'beat the game' future self is part of the alpha timeline, then he did not go back and give himself the ultimate weapon because that would create a diverging timeline, aka not alpha, aka doomed timeline. If he DID receive such a weapon, then the weapon came from nowhere and is thus a paradox and thus a doomed timeline. The problem solves itself.2. Anti-temporal grist economy inflation countermeasures built into the gristtorrent program3. The piles and piles of dead selves piling up. In piles. Alternatively: technobabble induced temporal interference >_>;; "If you time travel again the quantum instability of the tachyons will accelerate and cause an irreversible chain reaction causing everything everywhere to blow up"Spoilers: There are no doomed timelines in this game, and it isn't because of 'perfect' play. -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 3:31:00 PM #363:	good. doomed timelines are stupid and suggest time cares what way it unfolds. there is an infinite number of potential outcomes. all our actions are just a roll of the dice. our timeline is clearly the beta timeline. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674324] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> good. doomed timelines are stupid and suggest time cares what way it unfolds. there is an infinite number of potential outcomes. all our actions are just a roll of the dice. our timeline is clearly the beta timeline. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Some_Character 02/15/12 3:31:00 PM #364:	The presence of the Antlion negates the possibility of multiple timelines. -- SomeC - sheer explosives since meeting that crazy hobo. SuperNiceDog. Best friend. <cite>Some_Character posted [p:674325] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> The presence of the Antlion negates the possibility of multiple timelines. -- SomeC - sheer explosives since meeting that crazy hobo.SuperNiceDog. Best friend. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 4:11:00 PM #365:	I have never disregarded the hax that time can cause, I was merely pointing out the logical impossibility of something springing from nothingness. Ah, well, let me correct you, then. Nothing has to spring from nothingness at all. It only looks like that from our reference point, but from the reference point of the universe there are no inconsistencies. Think of it like this. Did all the most basic particles in the universe just spring from nothing? They didn't have an origin, but they still exist. It's just 'the way the universe works' that the particles have always existed. The same is true with stable time loops, but you extend your view of the universe from space only to the space-time continuum. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674326] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> I have never disregarded the hax that time can cause, I was merely pointing out the logical impossibility of something springing from nothingness. Ah, well, let me correct you, then. Nothing has to spring from nothingness at all. It only looks like that from our reference point, but from the reference point of the universe there are no inconsistencies.Think of it like this. Did all the most basic particles in the universe just spring from nothing? They didn't have an origin, but they still exist. It's just 'the way the universe works' that the particles have always existed. The same is true with stable time loops, but you extend your view of the universe from space only to the space-time continuum. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 4:12:00 PM #366:	Rather, nothing really has an origin in any real sense anyway. That would be a violation of Conservation of Mass and Energy. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674327] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Rather, nothing really has an origin in any real sense anyway. That would be a violation of Conservation of Mass and Energy. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SemiFinal vs Belarus 02/15/12 4:13:00 PM #367:	so much weird weird time s* s... -- "Oh God, maplejet's trying to be cool again. I'll call the ambulance." - Wylvane [NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]* <cite>SemiFinal vs Belarus posted [p:674328] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> so much weird weird time s* s*... -- "Oh God, maplejet's trying to be cool again. I'll call the ambulance." - Wylvane[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE] </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BonetaiI 02/15/12 4:25:00 PM #368:	Have weapons/items have minimum level requirements. That's one problem solved. <cite>BonetaiI posted [p:674329] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Have weapons/items have minimum level requirements.That's one problem solved. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 4:31:00 PM #369:	*Sceptilesolarbeam posted...* I have never disregarded the hax that time can cause, I was merely pointing out the logical impossibility of something springing from nothingness. Ah, well, let me correct you, then. Nothing has to spring from nothingness at all. It only looks like that from our reference point, but from the reference point of the universe there are no inconsistencies. Think of it like this. Did all the most basic particles in the universe just spring from nothing? They didn't have an origin, but they still exist. It's just 'the way the universe works' that the particles have always existed. The same is true with stable time loops, but you extend your view of the universe from space only to the space-time continuum. Pretty sure the origin of everything is not something we have adequate proof of one way or the other. This view invokes a number of presuppositions that may or may not be generally true. There are causes and there are effects. The effects of causes give rise to possibilities. Information can be wrestled from this arrangement, but only if the information is relatively close to the same branches of possibility one is traveling on. For instance, a Hero of Time might relay some intel that the black king has an intense hatred of baconators. In some other permutation of cause and effect, the black king might instead have a hatred of bicycles. Relaying the one bit of information when it is actually the other in the timeline we are observing does not benefit the Hero of Time much. This is a blessing and a curse depending on the task at hand, for some things will be more generally similar across possibilities than others. And yes, the wonkyness of time permits effects to be progenitors of causes. That has its own can of worms however. Point is, we are both making assumptions of reality with logic. Doesn't matter which one of us thinks they understand time better, but how Kan feels like time should be run. From his doctrine we can play with logic and see what may or may not work. I kinda envy the potential time hero though, as time travel is one of my passions and I would love more than just about anything to experience it. That the universe is reluctant to promote accessible time travel means (short of burning up more energy than the universe contains) is disheartening, but such is the nature of reality. Imagination helps uncover beautiful things, but desires no matter how one wishes them to be, can do naught but accept the truth of things. Huzzah for timestuck. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674330] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Sceptilesolarbeam posted...I have never disregarded the hax that time can cause, I was merely pointing out the logical impossibility of something springing from nothingness. Ah, well, let me correct you, then. Nothing has to spring from nothingness at all. It only looks like that from our reference point, but from the reference point of the universe there are no inconsistencies.Think of it like this. Did all the most basic particles in the universe just spring from nothing? They didn't have an origin, but they still exist. It's just 'the way the universe works' that the particles have always existed. The same is true with stable time loops, but you extend your view of the universe from space only to the space-time continuum.Pretty sure the origin of everything is not something we have adequate proof of one way or the other. This view invokes a number of presuppositions that may or may not be generally true.There are causes and there are effects. The effects of causes give rise to possibilities. Information can be wrestled from this arrangement, but only if the information is relatively close to the same branches of possibility one is traveling on. For instance, a Hero of Time might relay some intel that the black king has an intense hatred of baconators. In some other permutation of cause and effect, the black king might instead have a hatred of bicycles. Relaying the one bit of information when it is actually the other in the timeline we are observing does not benefit the Hero of Time much. This is a blessing and a curse depending on the task at hand, for some things will be more generally similar across possibilities than others.And yes, the wonkyness of time permits effects to be progenitors of causes. That has its own can of worms however. Point is, we are both making assumptions of reality with logic. Doesn't matter which one of us thinks they understand time better, but how Kan feels like time should be run. From his doctrine we can play with logic and see what may or may not work. I kinda envy the potential time hero though, as time travel is one of my passions and I would love more than just about anything to experience it. That the universe is reluctant to promote accessible time travel means (short of burning up more energy than the universe contains) is disheartening, but such is the nature of reality. Imagination helps uncover beautiful things, but desires no matter how one wishes them to be, can do naught but accept the truth of things.Huzzah for timestuck. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 02/15/12 4:32:00 PM #370:	From: Sceptilesolarbeam \| #366 Rather, nothing really has an origin in any real sense anyway. That would be a violation of Conservation of Mass and Energy. It does. An imbalance in a zero-sum environment. From: BonetaiI \| #368 Have weapons/items have minimum level requirements. That's one problem solved. Suddenly, Paul can't use his gloves and Kekhet cannot use her baton or shockstaff. Pass. -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:674331] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> From: Sceptilesolarbeam \| #366Rather, nothing really has an origin in any real sense anyway. That would be a violation of Conservation of Mass and Energy.It does. An imbalance in a zero-sum environment.From: BonetaiI \| #368Have weapons/items have minimum level requirements.That's one problem solved.Suddenly, Paul can't use his gloves and Kekhet cannot use her baton or shockstaff. Pass. -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Luis_Sera89 02/15/12 4:38:00 PM #371:	Hey, Kekhet earned/scammed those sweet weapons fair and square. -- "Eet's game time..." <cite>Luis_Sera89 posted [p:674332] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Hey, Kekhet earned/scammed those sweet weapons fair and square. -- "Eet's game time..." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 4:39:00 PM #372:	It does. An imbalance in a zero-sum environment. What is 'it'? There are causes and there are effects. The effects of causes give rise to possibilities. Information can be wrestled from this arrangement, but only if the information is relatively close to the same branches of possibility one is traveling on. For instance, a Hero of Time might relay some intel that the black king has an intense hatred of baconators. In some other permutation of cause and effect, the black king might instead have a hatred of bicycles. Relaying the one bit of information when it is actually the other in the timeline we are observing does not benefit the Hero of Time much. This is a blessing and a curse depending on the task at hand, for some things will be more generally similar across possibilities than others. Now you're just proposing alternate timelines, which is a different, equally consistent theory. Pretty sure the origin of everything is not something we have adequate proof of one way or the other. This view invokes a number of presuppositions that may or may not be generally true. Well, obviously we don't have proof of anything, but I assume by your line of argument that you would agree with my claim. Therefore objecting that it's unknown is pretty meaningless. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674333] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> It does. An imbalance in a zero-sum environment.What is 'it'?There are causes and there are effects. The effects of causes give rise to possibilities. Information can be wrestled from this arrangement, but only if the information is relatively close to the same branches of possibility one is traveling on. For instance, a Hero of Time might relay some intel that the black king has an intense hatred of baconators. In some other permutation of cause and effect, the black king might instead have a hatred of bicycles. Relaying the one bit of information when it is actually the other in the timeline we are observing does not benefit the Hero of Time much. This is a blessing and a curse depending on the task at hand, for some things will be more generally similar across possibilities than others.Now you're just proposing alternate timelines, which is a different, equally consistent theory.Pretty sure the origin of everything is not something we have adequate proof of one way or the other. This view invokes a number of presuppositions that may or may not be generally true.Well, obviously we don't have proof of anything, but I assume by your line of argument that you would agree with my claim. Therefore objecting that it's unknown is pretty meaningless. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 02/15/12 4:46:00 PM #373:	From: Sceptilesolarbeam \| #372 It does. An imbalance in a zero-sum environment. What is 'it'? There are causes and there are effects. The effects of causes give rise to possibilities. Information can be wrestled from this arrangement, but only if the information is relatively close to the same branches of possibility one is traveling on. For instance, a Hero of Time might relay some intel that the black king has an intense hatred of baconators. In some other permutation of cause and effect, the black king might instead have a hatred of bicycles. Relaying the one bit of information when it is actually the other in the timeline we are observing does not benefit the Hero of Time much. This is a blessing and a curse depending on the task at hand, for some things will be more generally similar across possibilities than others. Now you're just proposing alternate timelines, which is a different, equally consistent theory. Pretty sure the origin of everything is not something we have adequate proof of one way or the other. This view invokes a number of presuppositions that may or may not be generally true. Well, obviously we don't have proof of anything, but I assume by your line of argument that you would agree with my claim. Therefore objecting that it's unknown is pretty meaningless. Everything. It has an origin. -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:674334] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> From: Sceptilesolarbeam \| #372It does. An imbalance in a zero-sum environment.What is 'it'?There are causes and there are effects. The effects of causes give rise to possibilities. Information can be wrestled from this arrangement, but only if the information is relatively close to the same branches of possibility one is traveling on. For instance, a Hero of Time might relay some intel that the black king has an intense hatred of baconators. In some other permutation of cause and effect, the black king might instead have a hatred of bicycles. Relaying the one bit of information when it is actually the other in the timeline we are observing does not benefit the Hero of Time much. This is a blessing and a curse depending on the task at hand, for some things will be more generally similar across possibilities than others.Now you're just proposing alternate timelines, which is a different, equally consistent theory.Pretty sure the origin of everything is not something we have adequate proof of one way or the other. This view invokes a number of presuppositions that may or may not be generally true.Well, obviously we don't have proof of anything, but I assume by your line of argument that you would agree with my claim. Therefore objecting that it's unknown is pretty meaningless.Everything. It has an origin. -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 4:48:00 PM #374:	Now you're just proposing alternate timelines, which is a different, equally consistent theory. a thing that would not be so different than what homestuck accepts as canon. it just mucks about with doomed timeline stuffs. but there are clearly alternate timelines. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674335] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Now you're just proposing alternate timelines, which is a different, equally consistent theory.a thing that would not be so different than what homestuck accepts as canon. it just mucks about with doomed timeline stuffs. but there are clearly alternate timelines. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 5:14:00 PM #375:	From: KanzarisKelshen \| #373 Everything. It has an origin. No, it doesn't. Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy. a thing that would not be so different than what homestuck accepts as canon. it just mucks about with doomed timeline stuffs. but there are clearly alternate timelines. Homestuck's clearly some kind of mix between stable time loops and alternate timelines; both are represented to a degree. But I wasn't arguing that my version was necessarily right, only that it's a consistent one to have. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674336] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> From: KanzarisKelshen \| #373Everything. It has an origin.No, it doesn't. Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy.a thing that would not be so different than what homestuck accepts as canon. it just mucks about with doomed timeline stuffs. but there are clearly alternate timelines.Homestuck's clearly some kind of mix between stable time loops and alternate timelines; both are represented to a degree. But I wasn't arguing that my version was necessarily right, only that it's a consistent one to have. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 5:22:00 PM #376:	No, it doesn't. Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy. Is it against the law for something to shift from potential energy to actual energy? Aren't you making the assumption that the universe is a closed system? -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674337] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> No, it doesn't. Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy.Is it against the law for something to shift from potential energy to actual energy? Aren't you making the assumption that the universe is a closed system? -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 5:41:00 PM #377:	From: SovietOmega \| #376 No, it doesn't. Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy. Is it against the law for something to shift from potential energy to actual energy? Aren't you making the assumption that the universe is a closed system? The definition of 'universe' is 'everything that exists'. Yes, it's a closed system. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674338] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> From: SovietOmega \| #376No, it doesn't. Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy.Is it against the law for something to shift from potential energy to actual energy? Aren't you making the assumption that the universe is a closed system?The definition of 'universe' is 'everything that exists'. Yes, it's a closed system. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 5:46:00 PM #378:	*Sceptilesolarbeam posted...* From: SovietOmega \| #376 No, it doesn't. Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy. Is it against the law for something to shift from potential energy to actual energy? Aren't you making the assumption that the universe is a closed system? The definition of 'universe' is 'everything that exists'. Yes, it's a closed system. That is a pretty limited view of space then. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674339] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Sceptilesolarbeam posted...From: SovietOmega \| #376No, it doesn't. Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy.Is it against the law for something to shift from potential energy to actual energy? Aren't you making the assumption that the universe is a closed system?The definition of 'universe' is 'everything that exists'. Yes, it's a closed system.That is a pretty limited view of space then. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 5:50:00 PM #379:	I mean, really. How can you reconcile that view with homestuck canon which features multiple universes that interact with each other? Obviously not closed systems at all. Such may or may not be the case in reality, but this is a discussion for how time will work in a game that is roughly comparable to homestuck. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674340] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> I mean, really. How can you reconcile that view with homestuck canon which features multiple universes that interact with each other? Obviously not closed systems at all.Such may or may not be the case in reality, but this is a discussion for how time will work in a game that is roughly comparable to homestuck. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Viktor Vaughn 02/15/12 5:53:00 PM #380:	listen stuff happens and sometimes its all like happening and then its not and other times its happenin all the time and nobody really knows when it started but for some reason youre just falling down stairs forever and you never even got to play those games -- bad advice http://www.last.fm/user/snowcampsoldier <cite>Viktor Vaughn posted [p:674341] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> listen stuff happens and sometimes its all like happening and then its not and other times its happenin all the time and nobody really knows when it started but for some reason youre just falling down stairs forever and you never even got to play those games -- bad advicehttp://www.last.fm/user/snowcampsoldier </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 6:03:00 PM #381:	From: SovietOmega \| #379 I mean, really. How can you reconcile that view with homestuck canon which features multiple universes that interact with each other? Obviously not closed systems at all. Such may or may not be the case in reality, but this is a discussion for how time will work in a game that is roughly comparable to homestuck. That just requires a misuse of the word 'universe'. It's fine because it's common parlance, but I was speaking more specifically. If universes can interact, they are not universes but one universe. you need more science -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674342] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> From: SovietOmega \| #379I mean, really. How can you reconcile that view with homestuck canon which features multiple universes that interact with each other? Obviously not closed systems at all.Such may or may not be the case in reality, but this is a discussion for how time will work in a game that is roughly comparable to homestuck.That just requires a misuse of the word 'universe'. It's fine because it's common parlance, but I was speaking more specifically. If universes can interact, they are not universes but one universe.you need more science -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 6:19:00 PM #382:	*Viktor Vaughn posted...* listen stuff happens and sometimes its all like happening and then its not and other times its happenin all the time and nobody really knows when it started but for some reason youre just falling down stairs forever and you never even got to play those games this is the song that never ends.... you need more science homestuck canon clearly defines these realms that the kids and the trolls live in as universes. much of the plot kinda revolves around this fact. the green sun, sburb, horrorterrors, hussie himself. to wave your hand and go 'nope, not universes by my definition so i am right' doesn't really accomplish much. you could make an argument that the entirety of homestuck is just hussie's imagined universe, but the fact of the matter is that this universe is CLEARLY INVOKING UNIVERSES INTERACTING WITH EACH OTHER. what would you call the kid universe and troll universe if not a universe? they are two distinct entities in their own right, possibly recursive in nature. subuniverses? miniuniverses? fractional universes? referring to them as such would be incredibly silly. but sure. if you want to label a universe as closed by definition then sure, it is closed by definition. you run the risk of being objectively wrong by reality, but you are welcome to ponder as you wish. it might get us somewhere eventually. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674343] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Viktor Vaughn posted...listen stuff happens and sometimes its all like happening and then its not and other times its happenin all the time and nobody really knows when it started but for some reason youre just falling down stairs forever and you never even got to play those gamesthis is the song that never ends....you need more sciencehomestuck canon clearly defines these realms that the kids and the trolls live in as universes. much of the plot kinda revolves around this fact. the green sun, sburb, horrorterrors, hussie himself. to wave your hand and go 'nope, not universes by my definition so i am right' doesn't really accomplish much.you could make an argument that the entirety of homestuck is just hussie's imagined universe, but the fact of the matter is that this universe is CLEARLY INVOKING UNIVERSES INTERACTING WITH EACH OTHER. what would you call the kid universe and troll universe if not a universe? they are two distinct entities in their own right, possibly recursive in nature. subuniverses? miniuniverses? fractional universes? referring to them as such would be incredibly silly.but sure. if you want to label a universe as closed by definition then sure, it is closed by definition. you run the risk of being objectively wrong by reality, but you are welcome to ponder as you wish. it might get us somewhere eventually. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 6:30:00 PM #383:	but sure. if you want to label a universe as closed by definition then sure, it is closed by definition. you run the risk of being objectively wrong by reality, but you are welcome to ponder as you wish. it might get us somewhere eventually. Omega. You are being dumb now. The actual definition of universe is that it's the entirety of observable reality. This isn't my labeling, it's how things are. A multiverse, a system with multiple universes, is defined as such because the universes have no point of connection. If the universes do, and they clearly do in Homestuck, then they all belong to the same system, the same universe. Please stop being stupid, the other argument was nice and interesting but now you're just getting on my nerves. A second's worth of googling will confirm to you that things that are interacting cannot be separate realities. And 'Hussie uses universe and he is omniscient and always right therefore you're wrong' is not a very good argument. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674344] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> but sure. if you want to label a universe as closed by definition then sure, it is closed by definition. you run the risk of being objectively wrong by reality, but you are welcome to ponder as you wish. it might get us somewhere eventually.Omega. You are being dumb now. The actual definition of universe is that it's the entirety of observable reality. This isn't my labeling, it's how things are. A multiverse, a system with multiple universes, is defined as such because the universes have no point of connection. If the universes do, and they clearly do in Homestuck, then they all belong to the same system, the same universe. Please stop being stupid, the other argument was nice and interesting but now you're just getting on my nerves. A second's worth of googling will confirm to you that things that are interacting cannot be separate realities.And 'Hussie uses universe and he is omniscient and always right therefore you're wrong' is not a very good argument. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 6:32:00 PM #384:	*Sceptilesolarbeam posted...* but sure. if you want to label a universe as closed by definition then sure, it is closed by definition. you run the risk of being objectively wrong by reality, but you are welcome to ponder as you wish. it might get us somewhere eventually. Omega. You are being dumb now. The actual definition of universe is that it's the entirety of observable reality. Please stop being stupid, the other argument was nice and interesting but now you're just getting on my nerves. A second's worth of googling will confirm to you that things that are interacting cannot be separate realities. And 'Hussie uses universe and he is omniscient and always right therefore you're wrong' is not a very good argument. if the actual definition of universe is that it is the entirety of observable reality, then that is a pretty idiotic definition because the observable universe is only a fraction of the total universe as we understand it. who is the one that needs to science more? -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674345] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Sceptilesolarbeam posted...but sure. if you want to label a universe as closed by definition then sure, it is closed by definition. you run the risk of being objectively wrong by reality, but you are welcome to ponder as you wish. it might get us somewhere eventually.Omega. You are being dumb now. The actual definition of universe is that it's the entirety of observable reality.Please stop being stupid, the other argument was nice and interesting but now you're just getting on my nerves. A second's worth of googling will confirm to you that things that are interacting cannot be separate realities.And 'Hussie uses universe and he is omniscient and always right therefore you're wrong' is not a very good argument.if the actual definition of universe is that it is the entirety of observable reality, then that is a pretty idiotic definition because the observable universe is only a fraction of the total universe as we understand it. who is the one that needs to science more? -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BonetaiI 02/15/12 6:34:00 PM #385:	<cite>BonetaiI posted [p:674346] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SemiFinal vs Belarus 02/15/12 6:35:00 PM #386:	stop the violence -- "Oh God, maplejet's trying to be cool again. I'll call the ambulance." - Wylvane [NO BARKLEY NO PEACE] <cite>SemiFinal vs Belarus posted [p:674347] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> stop the violence -- "Oh God, maplejet's trying to be cool again. I'll call the ambulance." - Wylvane[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE] </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 6:37:00 PM #387:	if the actual definition of universe is that it is the entirety of observable reality, then that is a pretty idiotic definition because the observable universe is only a fraction of the total universe as we understand it. who is the one that needs to science more? ... No, still you. First off, that was a pretty colossally bad argument to go 'nope I object to this one word no reason to discuss anything else'. Second, by observable reality I mean reality that is capable of being observed, period. I use 'observe' in a quantum sense. My use of that word was certainly poorly considered, though. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674348] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> if the actual definition of universe is that it is the entirety of observable reality, then that is a pretty idiotic definition because the observable universe is only a fraction of the total universe as we understand it. who is the one that needs to science more?...No, still you.First off, that was a pretty colossally bad argument to go 'nope I object to this one word no reason to discuss anything else'.Second, by observable reality I mean reality that is capable of being observed, period. I use 'observe' in a quantum sense. My use of that word was certainly poorly considered, though. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 6:40:00 PM #388:	*Sceptilesolarbeam posted...* if the actual definition of universe is that it is the entirety of observable reality, then that is a pretty idiotic definition because the observable universe is only a fraction of the total universe as we understand it. who is the one that needs to science more? ... No, still you. First off, that was a pretty colossally bad argument to go 'nope I object to this one word no reason to discuss anything else'. Second, by observable reality I mean reality that is capable of being observed, period. I use 'observe' in a quantum sense. My use of that word was certainly poorly considered, though. i understand your point, but we are not dealing with objective facts here, we are dealing with a stylization of the facts as presented by hussie and kan. we have the liberty to create a time travel system however we deem fit, with kan's approval. why not combine our efforts to hammer something tangible out of this borderline flame war rather than devolve into name calling? less pissing contest and more time travel... -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674349] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Sceptilesolarbeam posted...if the actual definition of universe is that it is the entirety of observable reality, then that is a pretty idiotic definition because the observable universe is only a fraction of the total universe as we understand it. who is the one that needs to science more?...No, still you.First off, that was a pretty colossally bad argument to go 'nope I object to this one word no reason to discuss anything else'.Second, by observable reality I mean reality that is capable of being observed, period. I use 'observe' in a quantum sense. My use of that word was certainly poorly considered, though.i understand your point, but we are not dealing with objective facts here, we are dealing with a stylization of the facts as presented by hussie and kan. we have the liberty to create a time travel system however we deem fit, with kan's approval. why not combine our efforts to hammer something tangible out of this borderline flame war rather than devolve into name calling?less pissing contest and more time travel... -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 6:43:00 PM #389:	i understand your point, but we are not dealing with objective facts here, we are dealing with a stylization of the facts as presented by hussie and kan. we have the liberty to create a time travel system however we deem fit, with kan's approval. why not combine our efforts to hammer something tangible out of this borderline flame war rather than devolve into name calling? But I was dealing with objective facts... Well, I don't really care what time system Kanz ends up using. It's just a work of fiction, it doesn't matter to me even if it's blatantly nonsensical if it's good storytelling. I just like discussing time travel in a practical sense. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674350] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> i understand your point, but we are not dealing with objective facts here, we are dealing with a stylization of the facts as presented by hussie and kan. we have the liberty to create a time travel system however we deem fit, with kan's approval. why not combine our efforts to hammer something tangible out of this borderline flame war rather than devolve into name calling?But I was dealing with objective facts...Well, I don't really care what time system Kanz ends up using. It's just a work of fiction, it doesn't matter to me even if it's blatantly nonsensical if it's good storytelling. I just like discussing time travel in a practical sense. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Viktor Vaughn 02/15/12 6:43:00 PM #390:	lets all time travel to before you guys started talking -- bad advice http://www.last.fm/user/snowcampsoldier <cite>Viktor Vaughn posted [p:674351] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> lets all time travel to before you guys started talking -- bad advicehttp://www.last.fm/user/snowcampsoldier </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 6:52:00 PM #391:	*Sceptilesolarbeam posted...* i understand your point, but we are not dealing with objective facts here, we are dealing with a stylization of the facts as presented by hussie and kan. we have the liberty to create a time travel system however we deem fit, with kan's approval. why not combine our efforts to hammer something tangible out of this borderline flame war rather than devolve into name calling? But I was dealing with objective facts... Well, I don't really care what time system Kanz ends up using. It's just a work of fiction, it doesn't matter to me even if it's blatantly nonsensical if it's good storytelling. I just like discussing time travel in a practical sense. as do i, but it is becoming more clear that we are not going to see eye to eye on the issue without innumerable posts wasted on the subject. i figured a time travel discussion might help hammer out ways a hero of time could work, then reality was called into question and nothing was something and paradoxes were everywhere. i maintain that a time travel system that allows for transmission of information or items from what amounts to the ether is nonsensical but can accept its occurrence in this fictional work, though it would be nothing but a pain to sort things out. though time travel on the whole will be a pain inducing exercise unless a system is ironed out that works. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674352] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Sceptilesolarbeam posted...i understand your point, but we are not dealing with objective facts here, we are dealing with a stylization of the facts as presented by hussie and kan. we have the liberty to create a time travel system however we deem fit, with kan's approval. why not combine our efforts to hammer something tangible out of this borderline flame war rather than devolve into name calling?But I was dealing with objective facts...Well, I don't really care what time system Kanz ends up using. It's just a work of fiction, it doesn't matter to me even if it's blatantly nonsensical if it's good storytelling. I just like discussing time travel in a practical sense.as do i, but it is becoming more clear that we are not going to see eye to eye on the issue without innumerable posts wasted on the subject. i figured a time travel discussion might help hammer out ways a hero of time could work, then reality was called into question and nothing was something and paradoxes were everywhere. i maintain that a time travel system that allows for transmission of information or items from what amounts to the ether is nonsensical but can accept its occurrence in this fictional work, though it would be nothing but a pain to sort things out. though time travel on the whole will be a pain inducing exercise unless a system is ironed out that works. -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 02/15/12 6:55:00 PM #392:	From: SovietOmega \| #391 *Sceptilesolarbeam posted...* i understand your point, but we are not dealing with objective facts here, we are dealing with a stylization of the facts as presented by hussie and kan. we have the liberty to create a time travel system however we deem fit, with kan's approval. why not combine our efforts to hammer something tangible out of this borderline flame war rather than devolve into name calling? But I was dealing with objective facts... Well, I don't really care what time system Kanz ends up using. It's just a work of fiction, it doesn't matter to me even if it's blatantly nonsensical if it's good storytelling. I just like discussing time travel in a practical sense. as do i, but it is becoming more clear that we are not going to see eye to eye on the issue without innumerable posts wasted on the subject. i figured a time travel discussion might help hammer out ways a hero of time could work, then reality was called into question and nothing was something and paradoxes were everywhere. i maintain that a time travel system that allows for transmission of information or items from what amounts to the ether is nonsensical but can accept its occurrence in this fictional work, though it would be nothing but a pain to sort things out. though time travel on the whole will be a pain inducing exercise unless a system is ironed out that works. Information is not subject to entropy and thus possible. Items are the caveat, admittedly. But yeah, to explain some stuff: As I said, time travel is not loopy in Twostuck. The Sburbopolis system never, EVER loops. Everything that looks like a loop is a timeline remake. Yes, you read that correctly. Basically imagine a mix of For Want of A Nail and Back to the Future and you got it. This isn't All You Zombies by any stretch. PS: There's also some anti-time**ery safeguards in there, but not nearly enough to make me willing to go into time travel just yet. I have done, and still am doing tons of research into time traveling to see if I can come up with a nonrestrictive time travel method that will not crack my game to pieces. -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:674353] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> From: SovietOmega \| #391Sceptilesolarbeam posted...i understand your point, but we are not dealing with objective facts here, we are dealing with a stylization of the facts as presented by hussie and kan. we have the liberty to create a time travel system however we deem fit, with kan's approval. why not combine our efforts to hammer something tangible out of this borderline flame war rather than devolve into name calling?But I was dealing with objective facts...Well, I don't really care what time system Kanz ends up using. It's just a work of fiction, it doesn't matter to me even if it's blatantly nonsensical if it's good storytelling. I just like discussing time travel in a practical sense.as do i, but it is becoming more clear that we are not going to see eye to eye on the issue without innumerable posts wasted on the subject. i figured a time travel discussion might help hammer out ways a hero of time could work, then reality was called into question and nothing was something and paradoxes were everywhere. i maintain that a time travel system that allows for transmission of information or items from what amounts to the ether is nonsensical but can accept its occurrence in this fictional work, though it would be nothing but a pain to sort things out. though time travel on the whole will be a pain inducing exercise unless a system is ironed out that works.Information is not subject to entropy and thus possible. Items are the caveat, admittedly.But yeah, to explain some stuff: As I said, time travel is not loopy in Twostuck. The Sburbopolis system never, EVER loops. Everything that looks like a loop is a timeline remake. Yes, you read that correctly. Basically imagine a mix of For Want of A Nail and Back to the Future and you got it. This isn't All You Zombies by any stretch.PS: There's also some anti-time**ery safeguards in there, but not nearly enough to make me willing to go into time travel just yet. I have done, and still am doing tons of research into time traveling to see if I can come up with a nonrestrictive time travel method that will not crack my game to pieces. -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 6:59:00 PM #393:	needs more steins;gate time travel :3 -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674354] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> needs more steins;gate time travel :3 -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 7:01:00 PM #394:	We can all agree on that. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674355] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> We can all agree on that. -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen 02/15/12 8:02:00 PM #395:	From: SovietOmega \| #393 needs more steins;gate time travel :3 Kill cutesy characters repeatedly? ...Well, I figure there IS a rainbow drinker I can repeatedly kill... -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 <cite>KanzarisKelshen posted [p:674356] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> From: SovietOmega \| #393needs more steins;gate time travel :3Kill cutesy characters repeatedly?...Well, I figure there IS a rainbow drinker I can repeatedly kill... -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SovietOmega 02/15/12 8:04:00 PM #396:	*KanzarisKelshen posted...* From: SovietOmega \| #393 needs more steins;gate time travel :3 Kill cutesy characters repeatedly? ...Well, I figure there IS a rainbow drinker I can repeatedly kill... and aaron can wield drpepperkind -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out <cite>SovietOmega posted [p:674357] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> KanzarisKelshen posted...From: SovietOmega \| #393needs more steins;gate time travel :3Kill cutesy characters repeatedly?...Well, I figure there IS a rainbow drinker I can repeatedly kill...and aaron can wield drpepperkind -- There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sceptilesolarbeam 02/15/12 8:07:00 PM #397:	That's just crazy enough to work! -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick <cite>Sceptilesolarbeam posted [p:674358] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> That's just crazy enough to work! -- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Viktor Vaughn 02/15/12 8:08:00 PM #398:	you kids and your crazy animes -- comin to your screen, straight from the magazine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_-LPPdHEyA <cite>Viktor Vaughn posted [p:674359] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> you kids and your crazy animes -- comin to your screen, straight from the magazinehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_-LPPdHEyA </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
catastrophy15 02/16/12 4:06:00 AM #399:	Man I missed the catastrophic argument that went on about time/space paradoxes. Well at least I can go back and read it numerous times. -- I bring order and chaos, I am life and death, creator and destroyer, just like the rest of humanity. My bunnyslug: http://img.imgcake.com/nio/catapngzu.png <cite>catastrophy15 posted [p:674360] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> Man I missed the catastrophic argument that went on about time/space paradoxes. Well at least I can go back and read it numerous times. -- I bring order and chaos, I am life and death, creator and destroyer, just like the rest of humanity.My bunnyslug: http://img.imgcake.com/nio/catapngzu.png </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Some_Character 02/16/12 4:09:00 AM #400:	I wouldn't read it more than once. -- SomeC - sheer explosives since meeting that crazy hobo. SuperNiceDog. Best friend. <cite>Some_Character posted [p:674361] in Twostuck: ... [t:61671575]...</cite> <quote> I wouldn't read it more than once. -- SomeC - sheer explosives since meeting that crazy hobo.SuperNiceDog. Best friend. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Twostuck: Second (Third) Time's The Charm (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Twostuck: Second (Third) Time's The Charm