Board 8 > Twostuck: Second (Third) Time's The Charm

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KanzarisKelshen
02/10/12 4:08:00 PM
#251:


I don't mind multiple relatives and I don't mind standard weaponry, actually. I also could care less about Sylladeces for the most part.

But yeah, to put it bluntly: Marcus is a Sue right now. You know how Jade has all these super special traits in Homestuck, like being protected by a godlike being, super powers in the form of visions, hax equipment, and all that? And how she's basically a nullity during the whole First Session anyway? This is what I'd have to do to the current Marcus to keep him interesting. He doesn't have flaws. Not real ones. He's just...boring. One-dimensional. Flat. You made him too badass without any reasons for him to be that badass, nor any equal flaws to make him a compelling badass. He's pretty much the classic 'trenchcoat, dark shades, katana, loner' archetype that has been around since the 90s in RPGs and just plain sucks. He needs some flaws. Real flaws. You have to give him some character. Otherwise, the only way that he'll have some character is if I make him fail and fail and fail to humanize him, make his badassery be less than nothing in the face of the universal threat you have to face. And I don't know about you, catastrophy, but a huge part of my approach to this game has been on letting the players be badass and have fun (and if I've failed guys, please tell me. I'm really trying here). So that puts us in a lose-lose situation.

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millermach
02/10/12 4:11:00 PM
#252:


tl;dr

This Marcus guy seems like a cliche and honestly a tad uninteresting. Branch out, take a risk, make a goofball kid and not some edgy "epitome of 'cool'" poseur. There's this thing called a box and, sadly, it seems you're stuck inside it. Too stuck for my tastes. Just embrace the silliness rampant in the subject matter. Our kids don't need a Dante/Travis Touchdown hybrid. They need a friend.
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KanzarisKelshen
02/10/12 4:13:00 PM
#253:


From: millermach | #252
tl;dr

This Marcus guy seems like a cliche and honestly a tad uninteresting. Branch out, take a risk, make a goofball kid and not some edgy "epitome of 'cool'" poseur. There's this thing called a box and, sadly, it seems you're stuck inside it. Too stuck for my tastes. Just embrace the silliness rampant in the subject matter. Our kids don't need a Dante/Travis Touchdown hybrid. They need a friend.


I see what you did there.

But yeah, I honestly think it's possible to make an 'epitome of cool' character and have him work here. I've given it a fair bit of thought and have a concept in mind that works for that sort of thing. But that kind of character needs to have flaws. A softer side. Humanity. If he doesn't have that, he sucks. If you want a cool character that's OK, but you'll have to sell that to us.

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Maniac64
02/10/12 4:22:00 PM
#254:


Or he can be Warren. The anti-badass who will require special circumstances and strong motivation to become anything close to a badass.

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KanzarisKelshen
02/10/12 4:23:00 PM
#255:


From: Maniac64 | #254
Or he can be Warren. The anti-badass who will require special circumstances and strong motivation to become anything close to a badass.


But eventually will be. If only accidentally! :P

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ZX_Lucian
02/10/12 6:28:00 PM
#256:


From: Some_Character | #250
Going with edged weapons also goes against the spirit of creative characterization that has a big stock in Twostuck, neither comforting to the side of the weapons that coincide with the characters themselves (whipKind, instrumentKind, martialKind) nor provide extra challenge, creative thinking and satisfaction when pulled off right (twigKind, frisbeeKind, improvKind).


Ahem.

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millermach
02/10/12 7:00:00 PM
#257:


Oh hush, Befind. For a long time you were just an amusing metaphor for nonexistence. We would say, "X has surely gone the way of Befind" and everyone would laugh, even the dog.

But you stuck through your dormancy and eventually joined with a bang. We're still feeling you out (we've grown rather close-knit since september) but things seem to be working. Your spear-like specibus has just as much opportunity to be deuces rather than aces as everyone else's does.

If you like I could always send you the recipe for spoonKind...
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SemiFinal vs Belarus
02/10/12 7:18:00 PM
#258:


Or you can always do what I did with Harriett: make kind of a badass, just with a bunch of zaniness and with a flaw pile that doesn't stop from getting taller.

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KanzarisKelshen
02/10/12 11:07:00 PM
#259:


So, unrelated to character critique, something that came up in the chat:

I'm not sure if you guys noticed, but I kinda have a love-hate thing for alchemization. On one hand, it's a really cool thing that I can flex my thinking muscles and just rattle off combinations for you guys to think of.

On the other hand...I have spent days of sessions answering alchemization questions. As-in, start at one point, still be answering combos five hours later, repeat the following day, repeat again, and /wrists. So, two ideas came up in the chat that I rather like, and I figure I might as well put this to a vote. I really don't want to keep getting bogged down by alchemization, so please let me hear your thoughts on this matter!

First is Semi's idea:

" Hmmm. Would it work if players sent you a list of alchemization combos, like, in a PM or something, you sent a PM back with the results and cost, and then we just made what we wanted in the actual chat?
Doesn't make less work for you, but it would keep things from slowing down."

(Let me note I don't mind the work. I do mind the slowdown)

And then Omega's:

" what might work better is invoking gm item suggestions. like, hussie has to make all those items and some of them end up important to the character in some fashion. make less work for kan by letting kan choose from our items what would make the most interesting combinations with rough parameters in mind"

(Here I just point out what things I think would make interesting alchemizations, based on what you want out of the items. Want stats? This and this. Want utility such as a good computer? Follow these hints. Want wacky? Maybe those items will work. That sort of thing.)

So, what do you guys think?

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Sceptilesolarbeam
02/10/12 11:11:00 PM
#260:


Semi's is good. Not as fond of Omega's.

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Some_Character
02/11/12 4:50:00 AM
#261:


Yeah, I could work with Semi's idea.

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BonetaiI
02/11/12 7:21:00 AM
#262:


I like Semi's because it doesn't railroad anything, and it leaves everything condensed a bit, which is good.

Totes stealing it for Goonstuck anyway, you choose whatever works for you.
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Some_Character
02/11/12 1:19:00 PM
#263:


Cata is there any chance of you being broken now?

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SemiFinal vs Belarus
02/11/12 3:43:00 PM
#264:


From: Sceptilesolarbeam | #260
Semi's is good.


From: Some_Character | #261
Yeah, I could work with Semi's idea.


From: BonetaiI | #262
I like Semi's because it doesn't railroad anything, and it leaves everything condensed a bit, which is good.


external image

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Viktor Vaughn
02/11/12 5:07:00 PM
#265:


From: SemiFinal vs Belarus | #264
[quoted text]

[quoted text]

[quoted text]

external image


i knew before i clicked

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SemiFinal vs Belarus
02/11/12 5:41:00 PM
#266:


well it's something only you, tom, and maniac would get to begin with so yeah

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SovietOmega
02/11/12 6:20:00 PM
#267:


hrumph

it isn't like my idea would have to completely replace current alchemization. really, i don't see why both couldn't be practiced in theory. use one if you can't be arsed to send a list in, and use the other for when you want really specific combos done.

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Maniac64
02/11/12 6:31:00 PM
#268:


I'm good with either option.

And I did not predict the gif but I smiled when I saw that awesome smirk.

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catastrophy15
02/12/12 7:10:00 PM
#269:


I just saw your guy's critiques and I'm changing my character design in the morning

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KanzarisKelshen
02/12/12 7:31:00 PM
#270:


From: catastrophy15 | #269
I just saw your guy's critiques and I'm changing my character design in the morning


Eagerly awaiting the redesign, no kidding. Just being able to listen to a hail of criticism earns points in my book.

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catastrophy15
02/13/12 3:50:00 AM
#271:


Before I post my characters new description, name, etc., I'm going to tell you that the first name is the same since if I wanted to change my first Marcus would be my first choice, second is that the last name is a real one (check online for it you'll find it easily if you use google), and finally that I enjoy hearing what other people think of my work since it makes me strive for a better work (whether a character or whole entire story):
Name: Marcus Klotz
Strife Specibus: PartialArmorkind
Sylladex: Anagram
Description: Has curly brown hair, light tan, and green eyes. Major artifact collector, he especially likes to collect pieces of armor but dislikes weapons, and likes to wear them even if they aren’t the correct size or shape for him. He is a little distant from others at times since he likes to talk about and to his various pieces of armor but otherwise he is a really popular guy for no apparent reason he can see (since he only focuses on how cool his pieces of armor are and not his own popularity).
(Updated)Guardian: Uncle who breeds mutated animals (I guess he could be called the Mutant Breeder Uncle)
Foil: His next-door neighbor, Eric Johnson, who boasts an artifact collection as large as Marcus’ own but collects pieces of weapons rather than pieces of armors.

--
I bring order and chaos, I am life and death, creator and destroyer, just like the rest of humanity.
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Some_Character
02/13/12 4:05:00 AM
#272:


Editing as we speak.

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catastrophy15
02/13/12 4:07:00 AM
#273:


Got it

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Some_Character
02/13/12 4:14:00 AM
#274:


Keep in kind that some of the stuff that hadn't been decided yet is there, made up by me. You can take your own liberties, but I life to use space.

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catastrophy15
02/13/12 4:22:00 AM
#275:


Yeeeaaah.... I think I'll decide on a different chumhandle than partificialArmoir.
How about eccentricArchaeoligist?

--
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Some_Character
02/13/12 4:39:00 AM
#276:


Could all very wel be. And it doesn't start with an A.

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catastrophy15
02/13/12 4:45:00 AM
#277:


Some_Character posted...
Could all very wel be. And it doesn't start with an A.

What?

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Some_Character
02/13/12 4:49:00 AM
#278:


We have this running gag where a third of our chumhandles start with an A. It's easily noticeable when you look at the sheet.

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catastrophy15
02/13/12 4:53:00 AM
#279:


Okay that makes perfect sense and I did notice that before but didn't think much of it.

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Some_Character
02/13/12 5:16:00 AM
#280:


Anyway, I also changed the class selection to be more in line with an archeologist's task of preservation while also enabling the Timeskills.

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catastrophy15
02/13/12 5:23:00 AM
#281:


But I really wanted to be the Prince :( What if I use eccentricArmourer?
Now I sound silly don't I?

--
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SovietOmega
02/13/12 5:28:00 AM
#282:


gotta say...archeologist and time would be a pretty sweet match. could steal relics before they became relics :3

though the strife specibus goes over the 8 character limit. prtarmorKind? the idea is an upgrade though imo.

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Some_Character
02/13/12 5:28:00 AM
#283:


We all sound silly all the time.

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SovietOmega
02/13/12 5:31:00 AM
#284:


sounding silly p. much guarantees success :3

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Some_Character
02/13/12 5:35:00 AM
#285:


Which is why we kick ass all the time.

I like the partificial part. It references the collection of artifacts, pieces of artifacts, and the dealings with mutant man uncle and his man-made mutants.

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catastrophy15
02/13/12 5:56:00 AM
#286:


Okay on the partificial part then and I could still be a Prince since I could destroy the effects of time on objects (I think it would work).

--
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Some_Character
02/13/12 6:16:00 AM
#287:


While that is a very distinct possibility I want you to consider something.

Up to now and potentially from now on we've stuck with the dictionary on the classes and elements written by Kanz himself. The Twostuck Prince, rather than being a destroyer, is the one who fell just short of the mark. It's similar to the Page in being unimpressive until a certain point is reached. The Prince would still be beneficial now since then Kanz could just make great Timeskills with great costs, which are offset by the Prince discount. Just don't expect to destroy anything soon.

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catastrophy15
02/13/12 6:21:00 AM
#288:


I know :( But I've been waiting this long so I can wait a little while before using my full potential with time.

--
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SemiFinal vs Belarus
02/13/12 9:30:00 AM
#289:


I love how we're all so gung-ho about Marcus being the Hero of Time, as if Kan won't find a way to weasel out of that being a possibility. Maybe he'll let Zach pick again.

Anyway, nice revision, cata. Has the potential to be a fun character.

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Some_Character
02/13/12 9:32:00 AM
#290:


If Kanz screws the Hero of Time away from us I'm making alchemy commands for the rest of the way.

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muddersmilk
02/13/12 9:37:00 AM
#291:


I now expect Marcus to be the Blade of Blaze or something random.

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Some_Character
02/13/12 9:38:00 AM
#292:


If he rolls then that will just happen.

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catastrophy15
02/13/12 10:07:00 AM
#293:


Bluh to the Blaze element I dislike people who can only use fire (except for Colonel Mustang from FMA)

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KanzarisKelshen
02/13/12 10:13:00 AM
#294:


From: Some_Character | #287
While that is a very distinct possibility I want you to consider something.

Up to now and potentially from now on we've stuck with the dictionary on the classes and elements written by Kanz himself. The Twostuck Prince, rather than being a destroyer, is the one who fell just short of the mark. It's similar to the Page in being unimpressive until a certain point is reached. The Prince would still be beneficial now since then Kanz could just make great Timeskills with great costs, which are offset by the Prince discount. Just don't expect to destroy anything soon.


I was just about to point this out, yes. If I can get poetic for two seconds, while the Page is The Meek, the Little Guy, the Prince is the Also-Ran. You know how the expression goes, 'always a bridesmaid, never a bride'? It's a bit like that, with a mix of a few other narrative building blocks pitched in. The Prince is a player who, in narrative terms, was picked by the game, his allies or his own luck to be a Lancer, the guy who's Second Best. A major part of the struggle of the Twostuck Prince won't be in destroying things, but in making and remaking himself. We can, of course, switch to the 'official' definitions if you guys want, but that probably implies a major redesign of classes. As it is, the role of the official Prince is taken by the...wait for it...the Destroyer (and to a lesser extent, the Foe). Yeah, I was super creative when I made classes, wasn't I?


Anyway, this is a much better character Catastrophy, and I actually pretty much approve of him. I don't know how PartialArmorKind would work as a strife specibus, but that's pretty much my only gripe. Good work!

PS: As a note, does Mr. Eric Johnson have a chumhandle of his own?

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SemiFinal vs Belarus
02/13/12 10:18:00 AM
#295:


Blade is actually kind of funny now that Marcus no longer uses a sword.

I predict either the incredibly corny Blade of DEATH! or a reference to the seminal Hong Kong sword flick Blade of Blood.

EDIT: While an official overhaul of the classes might be called for once we know what they all do, I'm against any sort of changes happening in Twostuck. We're better off just working with what we have.

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KanzarisKelshen
02/13/12 10:30:00 AM
#296:


Death is taken, but a Blade of Blood could totally happen.

PS: But we all know we want a Blade of Dust tbqh. I mean, could you say no to this mug?

external image

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millermach
02/13/12 10:30:00 AM
#297:


Cata, keep in mind that while you may have this really cool idea of what you want your character's title/aspect to be you ultimately don't have much say in the matter. For example, I wanted Greg to be the Page of Void because I used to have a super-boner for Void and I just like Page as a title. I got lucky with getting Page, granted, but I wasn't expecting Life. Since then I've ran with it and I really like his character. Lucian wanted to be the Rogue of Blood if I remember right. Now he is the Mage of Dreams.

Rolling into this game with preconceived notions is not a very good battle plan. It's much better to just accept what you get and hit the ground running. That being said, we ARE in dire need of a Hero of Time (according to canon mechanics) but I don't know how many of us would give you an entirely different aspect for the lulz of it.
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Some_Character
02/13/12 10:32:00 AM
#298:


partialarmorKind seems pretty doable to me. You could use stuff like gauntlets, shoulder armour and even helmets.

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catastrophy15
02/13/12 10:32:00 AM
#299:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
Anyway, this is a much better character Catastrophy, and I actually pretty much approve of him. I don't know how PartialArmorKind would work as a strife specibus, but that's pretty much my only gripe. Good work!

PS: As a note, does Mr. Eric Johnson have a chumhandle of his own?


The partial armor means he'll use one or several pieces of armor to fight with like the gauntlents/gloves, boots/shoes, and helmets. He just collects the main body and legs of armors to have a complete set and doesn't use them in his strife specibus.

And Eric Johnson will have one but I must first ask: Will I have to role-play as both of them? If so then that'll be fine with me. I will post it here in a little bit though since what rival doesn't what to pester the other once in awhile.

--
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Some_Character
02/13/12 10:35:00 AM
#300:


Eric Johnson will almost certainly be posted by Kanz himself.

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