Trying to bring Rael back is not one of the worst possible things you could do? What IS, then?
You're confusing method with motive.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
Dude, Vivi is acting in a matter that will see the universe ripped apart and returned to the way it was before it was reset. She has goals that, if allowed to transpire, will see Rael return and make the world his playground without ANY competition to get in his way. Vivi knows full well that Rael will turn whoever the hell he wants into his toy, and she DOES NOT CARE but she will get all the goodies she wants.
Killing the party is a secondary motivation, she hates the hell out of us and loves the hell out of the stuff Rael gives to his toys. Why the HELL would she work for Rael in the first place, let's pretend the party doesn't exist here, answer me why? Because she's greedy and could not give a damn about the state of the universe so long as she gets the cool stuff she wants.
From: Accel_R8 | #051 Dude, Vivi is acting in a matter that will see the universe ripped apart and returned to the way it was before it was reset. She has goals that, if allowed to transpire, will see Rael return and make the world his playground without ANY competition to get in his way. Vivi knows full well that Rael will turn whoever the hell he wants into his toy, and she DOES NOT CARE but she will get all the goodies she wants.
Killing the party is a secondary motivation, she hates the hell out of us and loves the hell out of the stuff Rael gives to his toys.
You guys already proved for me adequately that greed is the secondary motivation here. It certainly used to be the reason she served Rael, but it's not established that it's relevant to the discussion of her current motives.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
From: Sceptilesolar | #052 You're confusing method with motive.
In this case, method is what matters though. Our point is basically that, if you're gonna rape a baby to get back at someone, that makes you evil - it's not necessarily your thirst for revenge that drives you to evil, but the actions you commit. Bringing Rael back to the world is so much worse than baby raping that they're like the difference between a 1.0 and 11.5 magnitude earthquakes - both are tragic, but one is just bad while the other is world-endingly horrifying.
From: KanzarisKelshen | #054 In this case, method is what matters though. Our point is basically that, if you're gonna rape a baby to get back at someone, that makes you evil - it's not necessarily your thirst for revenge that drives you to evil, but the actions you commit. Bringing Rael back to the world is so much worse than baby raping that they're like the difference between a 1.0 and 11.5 magnitude earthquakes - both are tragic, but one is just bad while the other is world-endingly horrifying.
Hmm. Well, I think that's a way to look at it, but as I see it, good vs evil is about motives, and method is for law vs chaos. So I'd be inclined to discard method entirely.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
From: Sceptilesolar | #055 Hmm. Well, I think that's a way to look at it, but as I see it, good vs evil is about motives, and method is for law vs chaos. So I'd be inclined to discard method entirely.
Ah, OK, this is more understandable then. To me, good vs. evil is basically empathy, while law vs. chaos is all about ethics. This is why Vivi is screamingly evil to me now, while also not being particularly chaotic.
From: Accel_R8 | #057 Either which way you look at it, Vivi has shown nothing other than evil tendencies, there's pretty much no denying that much.
I think concern for another living being is actually quite promising for her.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
Well, as for wanting to kill Quentyn, Kirie, and Vanessa... From Vivi's perspective, if you accept that her wanting to kill Valerian, Brona, and Amy as legitimate or at least not evil, wanting to kill people who will defend them is... not quite legitimate, but not automatically evil by itself. In addition, Kirie and Thoron did nothing to prevent the universe's destruction and in fact directly aided in it, even if they're innocent of the Learrette mindrape factor.
The only person Vivi really can't blame, either for her getting tortured or for her sister's death, is Vanessa.
Unrelated: Aw yeaaaa finally got a picture of every one of Rael's Hands.
-- Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig. Started: July 6, 2005
Hey now, Quentyn was the one who wanted to go along willingly, I was the one who ended up opposed to the time travel thing. But generally speaking I accept her grievances against the party as legitimate even though Brona wasn't actually supporting them in the end; he was still complicit in making the plan possible (... Considering how much damage he dealt during the escort mission, that's very complicit).
Hell, she's even right to blame the party for Amy mindraping Learrette. We accepted responsibility for Learrette, and also accepted Amy as a party member despite knowing her motives were sometimes at odds with the rest, so the party as a whole can be considered guilty.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
Sceptilesolar posted... Hey now, Quentyn was the one who wanted to go along willingly, I was the one who ended up opposed to the time travel thing. But generally speaking I accept her grievances against the party as legitimate even though Brona wasn't actually supporting them in the end; he was still complicit in making the plan possible (... Considering how much damage he dealt during the escort mission, that's very complicit).
Hell, she's even right to blame the party for Amy mindraping Learrette. We accepted responsibility for Learrette, and also accepted Amy as a party member despite knowing her motives were sometimes at odds with the rest, so the party as a whole can be considered guilty.
I didn't get to show this part, but Vivi got to watch Rael's memory of the events, which is why she was able to call forth illusions of the party's conversation. If she knew that Amy specifically was the one who mindraped Learrette, she would have gone ballistic on her far more brutally than she did.
-- Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig. Started: July 6, 2005
There's obviously a simple solution to the problem, we just have to drink an Elixir of Protection from Evil and punch Vivi, and if we do more damage she's evil.
Oh, D&D and your unnecessary quantification of a roleplaying abstraction.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
From: Sceptilesolar | #066 There's obviously a simple solution to the problem, we just have to drink an Elixir of Protection from Evil and punch Vivi, and if we do more damage she's evil.
Oh, D&D and your unnecessary quantification of a roleplaying abstraction.
Accel_R8 posted... Does anyone know how to take screencaps on the PS3? I made Amy Sztery in Soul Calibur 5 but I dont know how to take a good picture :(
Use a physical camera?
>_>
I would think Amy would be the hardest of the characters to make in SC5.
-- Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig. Started: July 6, 2005
Well, I found another drawthread on /tg/, and realizing that I had pictures for most of the important characters, I of course thought "I'll get a picture for Aluxial." But then I thought of a much, much more important character than merely Aluxial.
-- Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig. Started: July 6, 2005
From: Anagram | #068 Accel_R8 posted... Does anyone know how to take screencaps on the PS3? I made Amy Sztery in Soul Calibur 5 but I dont know how to take a good picture :(
Use a physical camera?
>_>
I would think Amy would be the hardest of the characters to make in SC5.
I'd say Brona, actually. Does anybody in SC5 use tiny weapons?
KanzarisKelshen posted... From: Anagram | #068 Accel_R8 posted... Does anyone know how to take screencaps on the PS3? I made Amy Sztery in Soul Calibur 5 but I dont know how to take a good picture :(
Use a physical camera?
>_>
I would think Amy would be the hardest of the characters to make in SC5. I'd say Brona, actually. Does anybody in SC5 use tiny weapons?
Viola use claw thingies.
-- Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig. Started: July 6, 2005
There is no gun in Soul Calibur. Outside of Cervantes shenanigans, anyway. The weapon is never the cool part of making characters in Soul Cal anyway, back in the day Captain Falcon create-a-souls were stuck using nunchaku.
In either case, I actually like the way Amy came out, I just need a means to take pictures.
How else are we going to unlock the super secret friendship bonus ending unless we find all the hidden allies scep? Get on that! Next npc we meet! No excuses!
*next npc is a crotchety old man*
brona: "I AM RESCUING YOU OLD MAN"
old man: "What? Skewering a whole lamb? Why..back in my day we used to call them bleeting mutton and we had to walk uphill both ways just so we could because back then the god of transportation had banned downhill travel you see...and did I ever tell you about the...time i...once slayed...zzz"
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There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out
Miss R leveled up from her adventure just now. You'll have to for at least a short time skip to level someone else. Who will it be, by the way, if not Miss R?
-- Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig. Started: July 6, 2005
From: Anagram | #079 Miss R leveled up from her adventure just now. You'll have to for at least a short time skip to level someone else. Who will it be, by the way, if not Miss R?
Hm, so we can't level her up? Then I think Forget is the right call, yeah. The alternatives are all above our level so we can't train them.
KanzarisKelshen posted... From: Anagram | #079 Miss R leveled up from her adventure just now. You'll have to for at least a short time skip to level someone else. Who will it be, by the way, if not Miss R? Hm, so we can't level her up? Then I think Forget is the right call, yeah. The alternatives are all above our level so we can't train them.
Poor Dubs.
-- Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig. Started: July 6, 2005
We can't really afford to spread these levels too thinly, if we can get a few to party level -2 tier, they'll be able to defend the noncombatants far better than several party level -6 characters ever could. If we continue work on Forget, who has shown she legitimately wants to help in combat, and get her to pl-2, we can start work on somebody a little closer like Samantha, and get her to pl-2.
Eventually we can get a whole 5-man cell of pl-2s, which is like an entire lower leveled party. After that the non-combatants should be priority.
Edit: Also it's Easter, all bunny-themed characters should get bonus XP IMO. for srs.
Atharathes - Warlord 16 Reen - Battlemind 15 Ederax - Warlock 11 Konamy - Modron 10 (Apparently not too good at combat, though) Miss R - Rogue 9 (10 now?) Samantha - Funeral Girl 8 Kira - Fighter 5 Forget - Bunny Knight 3 Dubs - Bard 1
Thoron and Amy (Not sure what level they'd be...) Teracor - Blackguard 15 (MIA, and not particularly friendly towards the party anymore) Aluxial - Wizard 51 (Still stuck in a vomit covered crystal)
Over half of them are surprisingly battle competent already (Assuming Sam can actually fight...). I'm fine with continuing to level Forget, though
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"As a chess Grandmaster, what's your view on America's war strategy?" "SEND IN THE CLERGY! THEY CAN MOVE DIAGONALLY!"
We know Funeral Girl is a primal controller, anyway.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
Currently pl-2 is 10, so the target level for the NPCs we have decided are combat capable should hit level 10. Using Tiro's list, that means...
=Combat Squad= Atharathes - Warlord 16 (Leader, Martial) Ties to: Quentyn Reen - Battlemind 15 (Defender, Psionic) Ties to: Valerian Ederax - Warlock 11 (Striker, Arcane) Ties to: Kirie Miss R - Rogue 9, possibly 10 (Striker, Martial) Ties to: Valerian, Vanessa, Brona
=Non-Combatants= Samantha - Funeral Girl 8 (Controller?, Primal?) Ties to: Amy, Vanessa Kira - Fighter 5 (Defender, Martial) Ties to: Valerian Forget - Bunny Knight 3 (Defender?, Divine?) Ties to: T'horon Dubs - Bard 1 (Leader, Arcane) Ties to: Quentyn
=Unsure= Konamy - Modron 10 (Controller? ???)* Ties to: Amy T'horon - Swordmage 12 (Defender, Arcane)** Ties to: Kirie, Forget
*: Apparently it was started Konamy is a poor combatant despite her level? **: T'horon is currently in terrible condition.
=MIA= Amy - Mage 12 (Controller, Arcane) Ties to: Konamy, Samantha Teracor - Blackguard 16? (Striker, Shadow) Ties to: Valerian*
From: SovietOmega | #092 apparently he got it from martial power 2.
and the actual text says it is a damage bonus based on dex mod, which would not help val much at all :p
Nah, I was asking because it seemed like a Monk power, which got me wondering how he'd gotten it. Thankfully, I have something much more tasty in store down the line, in the form of Fuel The Fire.
So tell me, guys. Are you interested in some player-driven sidequests for a while instead of the main plot about Rael and the cult, or would you prefer more of the latter?
-- Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig. Started: July 6, 2005
Fist of Lightning's a brawling fighter power, unarmed damage increased by dex modifier while you maintain the stance, means it scales and it's a utility power so I don't even have to drop it for something better later. It's daily, but I get other daily stances on attack powers later like REAPER'S STANCE which is goddamn outrageously powerful. Fist of Lightning's the go-to buff once per day and later stances are the "this encounter actually requires a daily attack power" buff.
From: Anagram | #094 So tell me, guys. Are you interested in some player-driven sidequests for a while instead of the main plot about Rael and the cult, or would you prefer more of the latter?
If it means going back to smashing skulls and running from one place to another, then pass on the second option. If instead it means talking with the Cult's remnants and/or Vivi (emphasis on talking), I wouldn't mind doing some cult stuff on the way...but right now, Valerian is focused on finding Teracor first and foremost. Everything else kind of takes a backseat now that the Raelites AREN'T going to blow the world up right the hell now.
totally need to do sidequests because that will allow the party to actually make some connections in this universe and maybe maaaaaaaaybe down the line decide not to destroy it
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There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out
I would certainly not mind sidequesty stuff, but in-character it might be hard to justify.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick