Board 8 > Save my Villain qualifying DISCUSSION *Spoilers

(+) Yeah! (+)

From: crazyisgood | #045
Itachi = Uchiha Itachi

right?

yes...

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SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0

MAc Arrowny has been deleted

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Random Things 20 http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/290170

Well I don't want to spoil Fight Club for you because it's an amazing movie and you should see it. I'll try to do this without spoilers.

Tyler Durden is an evil character who creates a lot of mayhem, and organizes a group of people a group/society of people who carry out more mayhem/anarchy/terrorism, including trying to blow up several financial buildings. His personality also includes acts such as pissing in people's soup (in his job as a waiter) and splicing pornography into family films (in his job at a theater).

There is a big plot twist, but....he's definitely a villainous character.


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NEW YORK GIANTS: SUPER BOWL XLII/XLVI CHAMPIONS!

Oh right, I forgot: I agree with removing Zero for much the same reasons that Solfadore posted in the other topic [heavy spoilers in link]: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/62593022/699400021


And I consider Bad Girl a villain. So many characters that even going through the list twice I still forgot a few. So many names...@_@

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In this world which will someday fall to ruin...
...dreams and hopes don't matter at all.

DpObliVion posted...
Well I don't want to spoil Fight Club for you because it's an amazing movie and you should see it. I'll try to do this without spoilers.

Tyler Durden is an evil character who creates a lot of mayhem, and organizes a group of people a group/society of people who carry out more mayhem/anarchy/terrorism, including trying to blow up several financial buildings. His personality also includes acts such as pissing in people's soup (in his job as a waiter) and splicing pornography into family films (in his job at a theater).

There is a big plot twist, but....he's definitely a villainous character.

seen the movie and read the book.

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Random Things 20 http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/290170

Seisen_Kitsune posted...
Oh right, I forgot: I agree with removing Zero for much the same reasons that Solfadore posted in the other topic [heavy spoilers in link]: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/62593022/699400021


And I consider Bad Girl a villain. So many characters that even going through the list twice I still forgot a few. So many names...@_@

Did you nominate Zero?

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Random Things 20 http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/290170

Oh, okay then. So yeah....I don't think he should be discounted because of the plot twist.


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NEW YORK GIANTS: SUPER BOWL XLII/XLVI CHAMPIONS!

Nope, Raka is the one that nominated them.

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In this world which will someday fall to ruin...
...dreams and hopes don't matter at all.

Okay, this was the original argument against him....

From: NekoTamago | Posted: 4/24/2012 9:10:07 PM | #341
Tyler Durden (Fight Club)
He's not a villain. He's an alter-ego from someone who desires the chaos, but not necessarily against people just for fun. He just doesn't like the "system" itself. It would be the system villain, not people, world, good, evil, or whatever the heck it is.

I'm not really sure how this means he shouldn't be counted.


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NEW YORK GIANTS: SUPER BOWL XLII/XLVI CHAMPIONS!

The Hamburglar (McDonalds) - explain? I know he is a theif but a villain IDK

Hollywood Hogan (wcw) - Does this count as different than his WWF days? if so than IDK. If not he is more memorable in the WWF

Hybrid(Marvel Universe) - described as an anti-Hero on Marvel.com

Iago (Aladdin) - Doesn't he join Aladdin. Still a selfish character but evil I say not

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Random Things 20 http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/290170

He joins Aladdin in the sequels I believe.

Depends on if you want to count the sequels as something that got enough exposure.

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SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0

Let's see...I brought up the Golbez thing already. (brainwashed, depicted as good in all other incarnations)

I am also opposed to having the same character be represented in different forms.
Referring to Kid Buu and Super Buu, I don't know if others are on there.

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pjbasis posted...
He joins Aladdin in the sequels I believe.

Depends on if you want to count the sequels as something that got enough exposure.

and the whole Cartoon series (don't know if it counts as canon though)

and depends on how other people want to define him. I may argue with the majority but I will let them make the final judgement.

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Random Things 20 http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/290170

pjbasis posted...

I am also opposed to having the same character be represented in different forms.
Referring to Kid Buu and Super Buu, I don't know if others are on there.

agree how do others feel. I know the differences come from who Buu has absorbed pretty much?

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Random Things 20 http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/290170

Does no one agree with me on Golbez? He's depicted as a villain for the vast majority of FF4, and he's more important to FF4 itself than other appearances. I don't see brainwashing mattering according to crazy's definition (more memorable as a villain and was definitely acting evil - stereotypically so).

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My rivalry with SuperNiceDog turned out a bit one-sided.

There were a lot of Buu. Hell, I'm not sure I get the entire sequence...from what I can recall:*generic spoiler warning*
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Kid Buu: Pure evil and completely insane. Absorbed one of the good Kais becoming Majin Buu, he was childlike and more innocent (though still a mass murderer)

Majin Buu: Had a face-turn thanks to Mr.Satan/Hercule, splitting into two halves. Mr.Buu (good) and Evil Buu (not good)

Evil Buu: Absorbed Mr.Buu, thus becoming Super Buu.

Super Buu: Absorbed a bunch of people. Has somewhat of a personality, unlike Kid Buu who's all "HAHAHAHAHA *Blows up Earth* HAHAHAHAHAHA". When the absorbed people were freed (including Mr.Buu), turned back into Kid Buu. ...Yes Evil Buu + Mr. Buu = Super Buu. Super Buu - Mr. Buu = Kid Buu. @_@

Uub: Reincarnation of Kid Buu, I guess, because Mr.Buu was still alive.


I'm kinda hoping that's wrong because that still doesn't make any sense. Super Buu had a different personality and was afraid of Kid Buu returning (one of his quotes was something like "No! Don't! If you do that, I won't be me anymore!") and he did have a different personality. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other.
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In this world which will someday fall to ruin...
...dreams and hopes don't matter at all.

Hmm, I don't remember the quotes exactly.
Boo is a strange case of identity.

I'm still supporting Golbez as a good guy.
Even his role in FFIV was important enough I think (as a good guy).

The Lunarian/Zemus plottwist was memorable.

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Boba Fett i believe hes neither good or bad hes a bounty hunter
Bulk (Power Rangers) bully not bad guys
Catwoman another character i believe is neither good or bad
David Xanatos is questonable in my opinion but feel is bad guy side was more memorable
Fox (Gargoyles) another questionable
Gollum not evil more obsessed with the ring
Laharl not a bad guy unless from human point of view
Mid Boss not a bad guy in my opinion
Skull (Power Rangers) bully to power rangers alter ego not bad guy
Ty Lee questionable
Uncle Iroh so not a bad guy
William Birkin was not a bad guy just a scientist until umbella tried to steal the virus and injected himself

Catwoman - she seems to me to work more with batman than against him


Light Yagami (Death Note) - evil

Mallorie 'Mal' Cobb (Inception) - I think she is more of a malevolent entity.

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Random Things 20 http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/290170

Ok here's my opinion on some of these:

Bad Girl - not a villain. yeah she doesn't really care about the people she kills, but she is no different than Travis. He murders more people than she does for completely selfish reasons.

Stark - villain, but not evil. He sees Aizen and the espada as his family, and his reluctance to fight isnt out of compassion, he is just lazy.

Gin - definitely a villain.

*spoilers *

His plan for revenge on Aizen consisted of the following:

- killing the third seat in his division and taking his place

- helping Aizen defeat and turn the captains and lieutenants into vaizards

- helping Aizen kill central 46

- cutting hiyori in half.

*end spoilers*


Super buu/ Kid Buu - both should count. They get treated as two different characters. I wouldn't consider it double dipping to have them both.

Hollywood Hogan - much different then the red and yellow, real american, WWF hulk hogan. Hollywood Hogan is one of the biggest heels in professional wrestling history

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RIP Washington Wizards Franchise
Wizard fan turned heel

Very minor detail, but I screwed up the name on one of my nominations. It's "Shao Kahn", not Khan. You may or may not care enough to fix that typo before this starts.

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In this world which will someday fall to ruin...
...dreams and hopes don't matter at all.

no more so far but still hoping some characters get discussion.

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Random Things 20 http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/290170

cyan1001 posted...
Gollum not evil more obsessed with the ring

He fits in that corrupted category with Golbez (who I still consider to be a villain, especially from Dissidia's POV), so he deosn't really count.

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Golden Sun isn't half-bad, but it needs to cut the crap with the Yes/No questions, which make Zubats look like thylacines in comparison.

Don't know about other incarnations, but Death from Castlevania is definitely a villain as he directly works with Dracula.

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Still smilin'
:>

Golbez is DEFINITELY more memorable as a villain

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"I couldn't handle all of the bullying" - Zea_Destroyer

Tom Nook - No. Greedy perhaps, but not evil. Here's a quote from Rich Amtower of Nintendo, with whom I agree:
"You think [Tom Nook]'s a jerk? That's too bad. He's actually quite nice. He's like that first boss you ever had when you worked your first job in high school or wherever... He's all about business, first and foremost, and if he doesn't always spare the time for pleasantries, that doesn't mean he's a bad person. He's just got a lot on his plate. Remember, he's hiring you, a fresh face in town without even a résumé. He's taking a big risk, and this alone should tell you a lot about his generous nature."
source http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=0&cId=3172032

Catwoman - Debatable, but I'm going to say yes. While I would not call her an evil villain now, her character debuted as a villain in 1940 and was not really presented as more sympathetic/morally ambiguous until the 1990s or so. So she has spent more than half her time portrayed as a villain. She is on several "Top 100 comic book villains of all time" lists (Wizard magazine, Comicvine, IGN).

Light Yagami - No. Despite being a little conceited, he had good intentions originally, and his change over time could be considered due to the influence of the Death Note, making him in another of its victims

William Birkin - Absolutely yes.
*RE spoilers*

As one of Umbrella's top scientists, he willingly committed murder, torture, and human experimentation before becoming infected with his own creation. And it wasn't even Umbrella who infected him; after they stole his samples and shot him (preemptively betraying him because he was planning to betray them for his own gain!), he injected himself for revenge. After this point you can argue his actions as a G-creature were due to the G-virus, but it hardly matters as he was well on the evil side of things before then.

*end RE spoilers*

Gollum - No. A victim of the effects of the Ring. Although he kills his own brother prior to his transformation into the gollum-creature, there is no indication he was evil before then, and the urge to murder his brother did not come until he had contact with the Ring. His actions after that are all colored by the Ring's corrupting influence, but he still manages to help Frodo for a time.

Re: debated characters.

- Nook: not a villain. A bit amoral, perhaps, as he does force you into debt, but not enough to make him a villain. It's not like he's actively trying to collect it back either. Amoral =/= evil.
- Wheatley: seems like a villain to me (I nommed him), but I guess it could be debatable - technically, the real 'villain' was the mainframe, which simply corrupted GlaDOS/Wheatley into testing. What's you guys' call on it?
- Asch: Absolutely not a villain. He's an anti-hero and is just trying to do the right thing. Sure, he's a bit douchey on the side, but with good reason, and that still doesn't make him anywhere near villainous.
- Kaiba: As I said earlier, not a villain. He's a villain for one season and one episode. Starting from there, he's a straight anti-hero/rival.
- Bad Girl's a villain. Sure, she might not be so different from Travis, but Travis's not exactly a hero himself. Murdering people with baseball bats and taking pleasure/enjoyment from their suffering screams 'villain' to me.
- Gin's a villain. Sure, he was a good guy at heart, but going by the definition, he's more memorable as a villain. His heel/face turn came a few chapters before biting the dust. Spent 99.5% of the story as a villain.
- Zero from 999 is not a villain, for the reasons outlined earlier.
- Light's a villain for sure. Typical example of a villain protagonist.

- Black Knight from FE9-10, on the other hand, is much, much more debatable. I'm still unsure about whether or not I see him as a villain or just misguided. Overall, I'd say he is, but I'd leave that open for debate.

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When you have nothing to say, quote yourself ~ Solfadore

From: UnluckyAssassin | #076
Light Yagami - No. Despite being a little conceited, he had good intentions originally, and his change over time could be considered due to the influence of the Death Note, making him in another of its victims

That's actually a pretty good argument, but I wouldn't say the Death Note by itself had any influence over him. It's a book, not the One Ring. He started out with good intentions (misguided as they were) and then turned heel over time, but that's not because of the Note. It's because of the *power* the Note granted him. There's a big nuance there. Light got drunk on power and started to abuse it because he saw himself as the god of the new world - and he abuses it from very early on. He became a villain because of his inherent flaws, not because of some external force. This is why I'd say he's definitely a villain.

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When you have nothing to say, quote yourself ~ Solfadore

Plus, Bad Girl drinks so much BEER. I mean, if she lives off only alcohol and takes a large pleasure in killing in a game with an already f*****-up otaku main character, she may as well be a villain.

Wonder how she got all that beer/insanity though...I'd love it if Suda gave some background information on that.

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Golden Sun isn't half-bad, but it needs to cut the crap with the Yes/No questions, which make Zubats look like thylacines in comparison.

From: Ytterbium_70 | #073
(who I still consider to be a villain, especially from Dissidia's POV),

What? Did you play Dissidia? He's as much a villain as Jecht!

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So because a villain has a 'good' motive s/he's no longer a villain, got it.

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Proud ValHellen x Maha_Bufudyne shipper.

pjbasis posted...
From: Ytterbium_70 | #073
(who I still consider to be a villain, especially from Dissidia's POV),
What? Did you play Dissidia? He's as much a villain as Jecht!

Actually, I watched a Youtube playthrough. Don't really care about the PSP.

Anyways, Golbez...I kind of noted Dissidia as he was listed under the Villains side, but he isn't all that evil in that game. However, who cares about Golbez as something that isn't a villain, even if he was just Zemus's pawn? Trust me, he tried to correct himself and fight Zeromus near the end of 4 (of which I DID play), and failed because of his dark acts earlier on.

Sorry, but there were spoilers above.

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Golden Sun isn't half-bad, but it needs to cut the crap with the Yes/No questions, which make Zubats look like thylacines in comparison.

Light Yagami is definitely a villain, even if you consider him killing criminals/suspected criminals as good, once he starts killing FBI agents there's no illusion that he's evil.

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These colors don't run.
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

Lots of villains are revealed to have good intentions at least at first.

Methods can make a man evil and Light exemplifies this.

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SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0

The Black Knight (Monty Python and the Holy Grail)
-he's charged with guarding a "bridge", but there's nothing to indicate he's evil

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These colors don't run.
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

Ben Chang - No way. He was an ass who enjoyed being antagonistic towards people From what I can remember, he never did anything villainous and is much more well known as being a douchebag teacher or douchebag student or douchebag campus-police than he is a villain.
Bulk & Skull - Same as above.
Seto Kaiba - Just an anti-hero. Apparently he was a villain in Season Zero, but everyone knows and loves Kaiba as the overdramatic d*** who screws the rules. Not as some villain with green hair.
Ty Lee - She is a nice person who got forced into doing bad things for Azula. It's a crap reason I admit, but I just don't see her as a villain.
Uchiha Itachi (Naruto) - Shoved down our throats far too much as a protagonist for him to have been an antagonist.
Uncle Iroh - I don't see how anyone can think of him as a villain >_>
Willie Stokes (Bad Santa) - I'd say no. The elf was the villain of bad santa.

*TWEWY and Higurashi spoilers*



I know technically they count, but Joshua and Takano are d*** nominations >_>. Huge spoilers for both series just by looking at their names on the list. There's probably some more like that on the list, but they're the two that sprung to mind. At least consider changing Joshua's name to The Composer >_>


*End Spoilers*

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if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it do the other trees laugh?

Storm Shadow (GI Joe) trying to remember his story. Didn't he join Cobra to find the killer of his sensei. I know he spent more time as a bad guy and is more memorable as one.

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Save my Villain qualifying DISCUSSION *Spoilers http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/62661961

JeezyMiyagi posted...
Light Yagami is definitely a villain, even if you consider him killing criminals/suspected criminals as good, once he starts killing FBI agents there's no illusion that he's evil.

He is an antihero by definition, A central character in a story, movie, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes.

Sure, his morals are, well, evil, so I could see why you'd call him a villain, but he's the, well, off kilter "hero" of his own story. I was certainly rooting for him. Though I know lots of fans were rooting for L. Ha, morals. =P

But yeah, there is enough "shades of grey" stuff in fiction today and untraditional storytelling that not every character can really be classified as a hero of villain. Personally I don't think Light should be classified as either.

Like, aside from his cold will to kill all "evil" (which many heroes have), his truly corrupt and well evil stuff is when he's worried about self preservation and doesn't want to be caught. Which, if going by that we could throw most film noir and crime protagonists in here, but I don't think they'd really fit in.

Hell, we could throw Rorschach and Batman in here, they're facist vigilantes who have fought the police. Though of course, they're more honorable than Light.

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One Piece: Pirates with style!
-= Metal Gear Solid: Tactical Espionage Action =-

Solfadore posted...
That's actually a pretty good argument, but I wouldn't say the Death Note by itself had any influence over him. It's a book, not the One Ring. He started out with good intentions (misguided as they were) and then turned heel over time, but that's not because of the Note. It's because of the *power* the Note granted him. There's a big nuance there. Light got drunk on power and started to abuse it because he saw himself as the god of the new world - and he abuses it from very early on. He became a villain because of his inherent flaws, not because of some external force. This is why I'd say he's definitely a villain.

While the Death Note might not be in the same class of pure evil as the One Ring, it is a powerful, supernatural object made specifically for killing and meant only to be handled by Shikigami. It's not just a book. I don't think Light's transformation from the kid who threw up after first testing the Death Note into the god of the new world can be completely attributed to personality flaws. There is an unnatural element at work, as the Death Note was not meant to be in human hands for a reason.

Whether he found the supernatural book, or if he found some kind of sci-fi government laptop computer that used nanomachines to give people heart attacks, it'd be the same story. So while I'm down with anyone agreeing Light isn't exactly a villain, I do think it's all his character and psychology in the show.

I mean, he's pretty much, well, a crime protagonist. Like, why isn't Tony Soprano on here, etc? Because they're characters who are selfish and kill for their own reasons, and most would say yes are evil, but they're not villains. We're supposed to somehow care about them and stuff despite their massive flaws.

Speaking of which, I just noticed Tony Montana on the list, I would say he is absolutely not a villain. Crazy and terrible, yes, but that doesn't make him a villain. Same with Michael Corleone.

I mean, the crime genre is an interesting thing, but while these characters kill for money and power, and in reality yes that is considered evil, it's a lot more complex than that. Especially in Scarface it's kind of you know a social commentary on poor immigrants and the Cuba thing, the American dream, yadda yadda.

I mean, with these morally corrupt crime characters in the same list as villains, I wonder why The Punisher isn't in this.

Also, while I'm at it, I'd like to question Kevin Nash. So, he cheats to win sometimes, and half the crowd cheers? He once laid down and just gave the belt to Hogan for laughs? This is a villain?

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One Piece: Pirates with style!
-= Metal Gear Solid: Tactical Espionage Action =-

Light is willing to kill anyon who gets in his way good guy or bad guy. Most other characters may fight the good guy if needed. But they will not just kill them. Light had no qulams with killing anyone he saw not to fit into his idea of a better world.

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Save my Villain qualifying DISCUSSION *Spoilers http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/62661961

I plan to tomorrow around noon to post a list on here of everyone challenged so far.
from there hopefully continue to discuss them will be done till midnight.

There are some characters who will automatically be removed from this list at that point and the rest will be left to be voted on.

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Save my Villain qualifying DISCUSSION *Spoilers http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/62661961

JeezyMiyagi posted...
The Black Knight (Monty Python and the Holy Grail)
-he's charged with guarding a "bridge", but there's nothing to indicate he's evil

Hmm, you have a good point there. I should have nominated The Killer Rabbit instead, looking back.

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Many tried to predict Boscopinions... but only starfox used the boost to get through!

From: Psycho_Kenshin | #090
Like, why isn't Tony Soprano on here, etc?

Because no one nominated him. At least I think.


Death Note Spoilers in Message Detail:

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"One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land."
-Toad, SMB3

There are differences between anti-heroes and villain protagonists. One of the better sentences about anti-heroes: "They practically do the right things for the wrong reasons and wrong things for the right reasons". While an anti-hero may do bad things, it's typically for a good reason.

The Punisher is a murderer, but typically focuses on criminals that are worse than he is and doesn't run around gunning down cops and civilians while declaring himself to be God. He's also often portrayed in either a sympathetic or positive light; sure he's a vigilante and a killer, but he stopped that child rapist from hurting more children, so yay! Even if you consider him a villain, there's no way you could argue him as the worst villain in his series.

EDIT: Rambling spoilers for Death Note and PS2 Grand Theft Auto games in Message Detail. I always forget we can do that.

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In this world which will someday fall to ruin...
...dreams and hopes don't matter at all.

Golbez - Yes
Wheatley - Definitely yes
Zero - Definitely no
Tom Nook - Indifferent, leaning more to no.
Wario - No.
Lisa Cuddy - No
Tim - Yes

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Dr Football > Dr Soccer

From: WickIebee | #015
I want to aid you in the deletion of two repeats.

Magneto is shown twice, depending on who is a more evil or the easier one to use we may want to delete one of them.

Also, Ulqiorra Cifer is the correct spelling, Schiffer is a misspelled version that is just being a repeat.

Except for Ultimate Magneto is completely different then 616 Magneto except for the name and powers. Ultimate Mags is a completely irredeemable evil dude who did his best to destroy planet earth. Nothing at all like his 616 version. Also Wheatly deff is a villain IMO.

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Official Mienshao of the pokemon B/W and BW2 clans
Comic pull list: UXF, WatX, XML, Avengers Academy, Defenders, Secret Avengers, JLI, and Batwing

Uh guys.

Eliminating Wario wouldn't eliminate Waluigi too?

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SuperNiceDog won the Guru contest super nicely!

Also people I think shouldn't count
Akuma (Street Fighter) Yes he isn't very nice. But he has never done anything actually evil in the game canon. He only fights people he considers worthy and tells them it is a fight to the death before the fight starts. He lives by a code of honor. If for whatever reason he feels that the person he is fighting isn't worthy he won't kill them. I just don't see how you can consider him a villain.
Red Hood/Jason Todd (DC Comics) No more evil then the Punisher. That simple. He kills criminals. Yea he is pissed at Batman and doesn't like him for not killing but he is not a villain in any sense of the word IMO.

EDIT: You might want to clarify that Deadpool is from Marvel's ultimate universe.

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Official Mienshao of the pokemon B/W and BW2 clans
Comic pull list: UXF, WatX, XML, Avengers Academy, Defenders, Secret Avengers, JLI, and Batwing

Wario is arguably better known for the Wario Land and Warioware series where he's not a villain. A starring role in two different series trumps one game (Mario Land 2) and assorted non-canon spin-offs IMO.

Waluigi only has the spin-offs and I don't know enough about his actions there to judge, but I see no problem with only removing Wario.


Actually Wario might have been a villain in Wario's Woods and some JPN Exclusive game where he kept dropping buckets on Mario's head. Might not be as clear-cut as I thought.

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In this world which will someday fall to ruin...
...dreams and hopes don't matter at all.