Board 8 > When will game journos stop LYING to gamers?! (Zelda)

(+) Yeah! (+)

GTA San Andreas/Vice City/III/IVV
Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim
RDR
Witcher 3
Just Cause 2/3
Shadows of Mordor
Assassin's Creed 2/Brotherhood/4
Watch Dogs 2
Fallout 3/New Vegas/4
Far Cry 3
Saints Row 2/3/4
Mad Max
Arkham Asylum/City
---

There are so many now that you can probably just take your pick.

Skyrim came at the right time to be the iconic one though
---

this topic convinced me to buy this game on wii u
---

Well it's gonna take me like 500 hours to find all these Korok seeds so I can give it more thought later.
---

Can we talk about the use of "journos"? Is that a thing?
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

Can we talk about the use of "journos"? Is that a thing?

It's a Bulgaria thing
---

CaptainOfCrush posted...

But as a total open world noob, all this talk has got me thinking - is there a "consensus" best open world game if I wanted to try more of the genre? Is it Skyrim?

Minecraft

>_>
---

I would argue that Minecraft is a sandbox game, not an open-world game.
---

The genres are so loosely connected that they are practically the same
---

Open-world generally has sidequests, characters, missions, etc.

Sandbox essentially puts you in the game, gives you maybe one goal, but ultimately leaves a large game world open to being shaped and directed by you. You can't do that in an open-world game.
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

Arkham Asylum/City

Asylum feels more like a Metroid game tbqh but yeah City is a prime open world example.
---

FYI it seems that BotW's review average has increased a bit. It's now a clear half percent ahead of Mario Galaxy with 42 reviews in (GameRankings), so it really may end up as the best-reviewed game ever.
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

Open-world generally has sidequests, characters, missions, etc.

Sandbox essentially puts you in the game, gives you maybe one goal, but ultimately leaves a large game world open to being shaped and directed by you. You can't do that in an open-world game.

Eh, I disagree. Sidequests, characters, and missions aren't something that is necessary for open world games to have. Pretty sure games that we both agree aren't open world have those things too!

I think open world literally means you can move around the world without feeling a linear progression. That's the core of the game. Yes, most of the games you listed have those quests, but you can still move around and mess with the games without really focusing on them, similar to Minecraft's ability to explore the randomly generated tiles and terrain, or something like Terraria or No Man's Sky, where there are games that allow you to explore worlds that are randomly generated and then build.

Sandbox I think has more to do with allowing you to choose how you interact with the world around you. A lot of the games you listed (GTA, Red Dead, Just Cause, Saints Row etc.) have sandbox elements in them already. So I think a game can definitely be both open world and have sandbox qualities to them.
---

Personally, I think Sandbox is Open-World but Open-World is not Sandbox. Sandbox is malleable. Open-world doesn't have to be.
---

I wish I could play RDR on my PS4
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

Personally, I think Sandbox is Open-World but Open-World is not Sandbox. Sandbox is malleable. Open-world doesn't have to be.

So you agree then, Minecraft is Open-World.
---

Open World and Sandbox are closely related genres. I guess exactly where the line between them rests is not something I'd feel qualified to discuss. I like both types of games though so maybe for me it just doesn't matter too much.

I really think I need to play more open world and sandbox games in the future. I've enjoyed I think every single one that I've played, even the ones I felt were kind of bad. I still got sucked into them and spent a lot of time playing.
---

VeryInsane posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Personally, I think Sandbox is Open-World but Open-World is not Sandbox. Sandbox is malleable. Open-world doesn't have to be.

So you agree then, Minecraft is Open-World.

Yeah but once you move into Sandbox, you stop being in the discussion with regular Open-World games. Like, once you are a Titan, you stop being in the discussion for best Greek God. So get f***ed, Epimetheus.
---

I'm admittedly not familiar with Greek Mythology but I think it's more like trying to separate squares from rectangles tbqh
---

VeryInsane posted...

I'm admittedly not familiar with Greek Mythology but I think it's more like trying to separate squares from rectangles tbqh

Well that was my first analogy, that's why I worded it the way I did. I just don't think they're comparable once you cross that line however. Sandbox games become fundamentally different.
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

Personally, I think Sandbox is Open-World but Open-World is not Sandbox. Sandbox is malleable. Open-world doesn't have to be.

What is The Sims? Or Rollercoaster Tycoon?
---

I would say both are Sandbox games.
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

VeryInsane posted...

I'm admittedly not familiar with Greek Mythology but I think it's more like trying to separate squares from rectangles tbqh

Well that was my first analogy, that's why I worded it the way I did. I just don't think they're comparable once you cross that line however. Sandbox games become fundamentally different.

Eh, not really. Isn't the whole point of an open world to, well, explore an "open world"? Why can't you do that on a sandbox game that has an open world, ala Minecraft? or Terraria?
---

That's not the "whole" point of an open world game. Having an open world is a medium for presenting your game. It's a setting that determines it's genre.
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

That's not the "whole" point of an open world game. Having an open world is a medium for presenting your game. It's a setting that determines it's genre.

An Open World doesn't really determine its genre.

Witcher 3 is Open World. Far Cry is Open World. Both are quite different styles of games (One is WRPG, other is FPS), but they both have an open world that you can interact with.

I think it just has to do with linearity moreso than genres, all of those games are essentially nonlinear
---

I figured this would be your response, and both of those games you listed are open world games in different genres. You can create games that are of multiple genres. Open World vs. Sandbox are freeform games; Open World games in genre set specific goals within the game. There are questlines in Skyrim. There are questlines in GTA. There are questlines in Witcher.

Sandbox games may present some simple questlines, but they can be completely ignored. Other open world games would feel completely empty without them.

Also, I'm not expert, but I am enjoying the discussion.
---

In sandbox games you have the ability to build things and kinda create the world. In open world games the world is built, you just explore and experience it
---

Sandbox was a term for games that have huge open worlds that let you do whatever you want with little resistance. Like GTA where you can fight off wave after wave of police for hours. You can't do that in regular open world games like Oblivion or Witcher because as soon as you break the rules of the world you get destroyed by guards that are 20 lvls above you.
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

I figured this would be your response, and both of those games you listed are open world games in different genres. You can create games that are of multiple genres. Open World vs. Sandbox are freeform games; Open World games in genre set specific goals within the game. There are questlines in Skyrim. There are questlines in GTA. There are questlines in Witcher.

Sandbox games may present some simple questlines, but they can be completely ignored. Other open world games would feel completely empty without them.

Also, I'm not expert, but I am enjoying the discussion.

Ok so I'm starting to see where you are coming from, and I'm starting to think a little more: I think of Open World as not a genre, but as a concept.

All those questlines and such are categorically not something that is required in open world gameplay but for other things too. You don't also necessarily have to follow all of the quests if you don't. You can spend all your time in GTA killing cops and waging war with the city, you can spend all your time in Elder Scrolls running around town killing civilians, you can do specific quests, but you aren't necessarily tied to them.

You are free to approach the quests however you may choose in an open world, much like how you are free to approach the environment around you in Minecraft.
---

ProfitProphet posted...

In sandbox games you have the ability to build things and kinda create the world. In open world games the world is built, you just explore and experience it

Sandbox usually means less limits than other games giving you more freedom, you can still explore and experience games. You can experience other people's worlds in say, Terraria, or randomly generated planets and still have a good time without completely building everything from the ground up. Most of the material in sandbox starts off randomly generated, IIRC. Though I am not as familiar with the genre as I would like to be.
---

I guess I'm probably not being too clear about the quests. If you present multiple questlines, you pretty much cede the ability to be a Sandbox game. Yes you can go around killing civilians, but the game penalizes you so much as to make it essentially a game-ender in Morrowind. So while it SEEMS like you have a freeform ability to do what you want, you really don't. The abilities stay the same, the environment stays the same. Superficial changes are really all that you have.
---

Ok, so those games aren't sandbox games. So be it. Minecraft is, and has an open world setting. So it's essentially both

I'm gonna be playing Vlado's favorite game for the rest of the night but it's been fun and I might respond later if bored
---

Captain Tsubasa?
---

Judging a 100+ hour game by the reviews of users who have had it for 3 days rather than people who have completed the game seems like a very bad idea to me.


---

scarletspeed7 posted...

Can we talk about the use of "journos"? Is that a thing?

oh good I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that was terrible
---

I didn't comment on the game, I commented on the vast difference between user reviews and "journalist" reviews. Let's get the facts straight.
---

We'd love to. We'll start when you do.
---

Vlado posted...

I didn't comment on the game, I commented on the vast difference between user reviews and "journalist" reviews. Let's get the facts straight.

you also said the user reviews contained "countless legitimate concerns." how do you know they're legitimate concerns if you haven't played the game?
---

Read them, genius. When someone makes their point in a well-written, elaborate manner, and makes comparison to previous games, explaining why this one does worse in the particular aspects, it's obviously not a troll review, but a legitimate one.
---

and if another review states "this game does just as well in all aspects as the previous ones" in a well written manner it's automatically an illegitimate review?
---

Awww he thinks you're a genius! How nice.

Can we count the user rating of Ocarina of Time at 9.1 as legitimate?
---

Vlado posted...

Read them, genius. When someone makes their point in a well-written, elaborate manner, and makes comparison to previous games, explaining why this one does worse in the particular aspects, it's obviously not a troll review, but a legitimate one.

did you ever read the ffvii review here by Legendary Kapik? it was taken down years ago but was legitimate, brilliant AND trolling.
---

98.31% after 44 reviews (GameRankings). The average keeps rising.
---

https://i.redd.it/mlpmlr77d1ky.gif

game of the gods
---

Half the intelligence, twice the ego sounded a little too harsh to describe even someone like Vlado but topics like this and various others, (especially politics) leaves little room for argument.
---

GuessMyUserName posted...

https://i.redd.it/mlpmlr77d1ky.gif

game of the gods

Oh my
---

actually RayDyn posted a better gif (well webm) in the botw topic

https://giant.gfycat.com/BestFrequentHyracotherium.webm

game of the gods
---