Board 8 > Chrono Trigger Mafia Topic 3: TIL Wiz Khalifa sampled two Chrono Trigger tracks

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEqpVQEV7zo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LugF-g2qEcw

I'm super confused now. You all probably knew this but whatever!


The Living


1. Chaeix
2. ChaosTonyV4
3. Corrik
4. bng_mmmk (replaced Dark_Spiral)
5. dowolf
6. eaedwards6400
7. HanOfTheNekos
8. htaeD
9. IfGodCouldDie
10. KanzarisKelshen
11. masterplum
12. My Immortal
13. Oddity
14. pjbasis
15. profDEADPOOL
16. red13n
17. Se7enthrust
18. Shaduln
19. UltimaterializerX

[4] JC - (dowolf), Corrik, pj, Oddity, Ulti
[3] eaed - Han, MI, dowolf
[3] Ulti - (Kanz), IGCD, Kanz, prof
[2] red - Puns, Se7en
[1] Han - (Ulti), eaed
[1] Kanz - plum
[1] Tony - Shad
[0] Death - (Ulti)
[0] dowolf - (plum)
[0] MI - (Puns)
[0] Oddity - (Tony), (prof)
[0] pj - (IGCD), (Shad)
[0] prof - (Ulti)
[0] Se7en - (prof)

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch. Day Ends on Thursday, March 16 2017 at 10 PM EDT
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Also, Good News Everyone! We have an archive thanks to zyxyz!

http://zyxyzarchive.x10host.com/index_CTmafia.html
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Just read JC's list

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/75114324/875157280

Why do you include people on a list with nothing remotely noteworthy to say about them?

Examples: basically everyone listed after IGCD
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I see now. So basically han posted a list and JC decided he should too.

Chaeix posted...

oh man is it OPINIONS OF EVERYONE time?!

the answer is yes!

i will be back soon my friends

That's a big ol' ehhhhhhhh
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Points to death for also remarking that it's silly to put people on lists when you have nothing productive to say about them.
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Anything else? A vote... perhaps?
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bng_mmmk posted...

Points to death for also remarking that it's silly to put people on lists when you have nothing productive to say about them.

you should read the Han list then! (But yes JC's list was also equally bad in that regard)

Nice to hear from You puns, was worried about your quietness, but then I remembered you pre-topic posts

Eaed and IGCD (and Oddity, I might have missed a few posts) have crawled back to far to the background during this whole JC mess
Shad also is a little too much reaction and not enough action for my tastes, but at least he's saying sensible things when he does post

Now about the big argument itself

I was not that suspicious about JC not trusting se7en, since I too dont believe in his 100 % confirmability
se7en claiming vanilla out of the blue is something I could see him do as both town or scum really, but admittedly I am leaning town on him right now
there is absolutely nothing wrong or vile about wanting to express doubt about other players opinions
(heck, se7en could have been told to claim early by his scumteam I also doubt this, but I am not going to exclude the possibility or keep it to myself)

at least thats what I was thinking when I started catching up. then JC shows up to explain why he is still not trusting se7en
the first post was fine, but then he over-explains it in another post and it starts to sound desperate (word salad is a proper description for it)
but JC does seem to have the same reaction I always have when I have to defend myself (complaining about people overlooking explanation posts etc)

maybe its just the fact that the main attackforce on him is driven by Corrik, whom I am hardwired to be skeptical about by now
Corrik likes to hurl loud words at players so much its almost impossible to form your own opinion on them
I dont really see where JC is twisting words, misunderstanding them yes, but it doesnt look like he's being maliciously reinterpreting things

then there is Ulti
I dont like how his play mode is to immediately deflect towards deadpool when questioned on his activity (and every other nonactive for that matter)
I mean its true that there are too many inactives, but this still seems like convenient shielding
and then he hides behind his work and calls everyone an idiot which shows he hasnt learned a thing, I am just rolling my eyes at him at this point

but to throw him a bone, the deapdool vote was indeed terrible. and feels like it was thrown in because deadpool knows he can get away with it

anyway to get back to JC and to sum it up
I cant say I find what he initially did a reason to call him a definite scum suspect
I dislike his focus on defense over offense a little less, but I also know its hard to not defend yourself when you get attacked like this, so I am still not confident that he is scum
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You sound like a JC claim would help you better understand his alignment. Your vote will help accomplish that.
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Chaeix posted...

Do you agree with Corrik that I should have trusted him and MI's logic on Se7en? If so, why?

I'll answer this if I may.

If Corrik and MI are actually town then Yes you should believe them. However, if they are both scum they might just be saving my a** for a lynching later.lol

I do not believe that Corrik and MI can be from different factions for sure at this point. They are both town or they are both scum.

(Not sure why I am jumping into this again but when Corrik said that he and MI were both A+ players it crossed my mind that they could be using me as a shield atm If they are both scum. And if they aren't... I totally appreciate the defense in that case and everyone can forget my sudden doubt that they might not be supporting me for the right reasons.)

Either way, I'm still keeping my vote on red unless I am needed for the lynching of JC because whether JC believes Corrik and MI or not he's really gone out of his way to over-explain his argument and it reeks of someone in panic mode like Corrik has said.
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on one hand I would like understanding and I didnt like JC leaving when he did

on the other hand (or the same?) It feels like not enough people have commented on JC
only 4 votes, but I dont see many defend him
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let me say something se7en

it is true that if you're town, you would already have the benefit of knowing Corrik and MI's reads are correct
but other players do not, and it could be risky to believe players just because you think they are town
trust is okay, but those 'town' players can still be wrong themselves on occasion.

good to see you have a healthy level of paranoia and self-opinion at least
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Although... I just realized that if either Corrik and MI were scum then why would JC make an argument against their argument if he is scum?

So in conclusion I guess I'd totally believe that Corrik and MI are scum if JC flips town because of all this back and forth.

[Just me thinking out loud for some reason...]
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thats another thing
why cant they be on different teams?
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htaeD posted...

thats another thing
why cant they be on different teams?

Corrik and MI?
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The thing is that I immediately want to believe that Corrik and MI are both town because they have defended me but as I explained up above there could be another reason for them to support me right now.

I actually didn't consider that Corrik and MI could actually be on different sides but unwittingly scratching each others back over me to make JC look more suspicious. (ie majority votes are usually easier to be persuaded by)

[What usually happens when two A+ players from different sides collude in that manner anyway?]

But I don't know why anyone would do that with me involved honestly unless I'm a pawn of some sort as I typically am.

...holy s*** I don't even know what I'm saying here.lol
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1st. Mass claims are dumb. If all scum claims vanilla and you have a decent host you are in a bad position. A good host that thinks it is even remotely possible will screw you over with a few gotcha roles.

2nd.JC logically has the best arguments against him but I haven't felt anything off. Would someone kindly quote his most glaring posts? I want to go over them again but I don't have time now, and won't be home until a few hours till deadline. If hey are laid out well I can digest them during 10 minute coffee breaks at work.
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Alright, I've read through the topic and am kind of digesting slowly. I'm going back to get JC's comments and the argument being marshalled against him as I see it to make sure my logic holds in my own head.
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se7en
I dont know what you're saying either
why would town collude with scum?
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Chaeix posted...

I get that each claim is basically a miniature cat box but the point is that each successive one is riskier than the last. So regardless of whether or not Ulti or Corrik is lying, it seems odd that se7en would just throw it out there.

This is a classic scummy move. Throw some suspicion at se7en while being noncommital.

MI responds that it's not odd if you've played with se7en before. He goes onto outline the argument for se7en's townness, which is essentially:

Se7en folds to pressure as scum, but he folds to pressure even quicker as town. Claims that scum se7en would make a bunch of posts wailing about the unfairness of it all before throwing his vote. Town se7en just panics at 1 vote and claims.

Corrik has also said that se7en is town at this point but he hasn't really outlined reasons, he's just been like 'good news, se7en is town.'

Chaeix posted...

I disagree with being able to make an assumption one way or another here. If he's being suspected for something that doesn't have a logical basis in the first place (i.e. an assumption) then he doesn't have to actually properly defend himself. It's a different kind of pressure so I don't think it can be read into. The guy's also had a lot of time with the board now and with an added level of familiarity that wouldn't have been present when playing before, he could just be a more confident player one way or another.

Also I tend to discount arguments of 'people can't do things on their own as scum' after my debacle with Ulti years ago.

I disagree with Justin's analysis of the situation. Everything up to this point has not given me faith in se7en's game and I don't think he's gained confidence. This is a good way to keep your options open on a se7en lynch.

As to his first point, though, the one about se7en not needing to defend himself against a vote not based on logic, he has a bit of a point there. se7en folded after prof unvoted him and then called one of his posts the opposite of a good post. So basically he folds to a featherweight's pressure. This point has merit on its own, but I don't think it answers My Immortal's argument. MI is basically saying that se7en would whine and moan about the unfairness of it all, not defend himself.

After this post Corrik votes him, which aligns with his argument, however, Corrik himself has not really outlined the reasons for thinking se7en town, he's just sort of made bold statements (which looks like his method of play).

I'm going through his omnipost of all players right now: one thing that stood out to me. He said shad is being constructive and is generally more town than not. However, earlier at like the end of topic 1 he was saying that shad was scummy. Now admittedly, a lot happened in between and I also am not sure if Justin was being serious or not with his first claim of shad being scummy, but I figured I'd note it here.

And Corrik, the sleeping dragon awakens and makes his argument that I sort of like. He claims that both he and MI told Justin that se7en was town and that Justin was just leaving himself an out. MI explained his logic really well and I feel Justin responded poorly, but Corrik just kind of made big bold statements. Is he normally like this as town? I'm right and let everybody follow me type stuff?

More incoming
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Oddity posted...

Town se7en just panics at 1 vote and claims.

I wasn't exactly panicking though and I didn't claim after someone voted on me. I thought that everyone is supposed to claim day #1 eventually and since apparent diversions were getting tossed at me atm that just seemed like a good place to do so since (I thought) that the deadline was fast approaching. Didn't realize we had another whole day to work things out.
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From my point of view I want to believe that Corrik and MI are legit town but once I realized that they are indeed better players than me the reality sunk in that they both could possibly be scum and using me as a barrier.

I'll be curious to see what either of them have to say about my doubts though.
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VeryInsane posted...

Also, Good News Everyone! We have an archive thanks to zyxyz!

http://zyxyzarchive.x10host.com/index_CTmafia.html

@VeryInsane I'm taking this to mean I don't need to worry about handling this

Ping me if this changes for whatever reason

Chaeix posted...

1) I've never played with se7en before, I have no basis to think he's town based off anything he's done.
2) If se7en has gotten modkilled for not knowing the rules (which clearly implies not understanding conventions of the game) why is claiming vanilla like that out of the realm of possibility
3) You're making it sound like I was insisting se7en was scum when you guys were insisting he was town. That is patently untrue as I explicitly say "I disagree with being able to make an assumption one way or another here [about se7en]" in post #370 in the other topic.

I'll agree you don't have any basis to judge se7en. However, two players who know him are saying he'd fold just like he did as town, so it sort of looks like you're looking for a reason to think of se7en as scum. As for point 2, I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility, but it makes complete sense to me that se7en folded the way he did, and with two people backing it up, belaboring the point is kind of... scummy. Do I think se7en is absolute town? Not really, but he's definitely up in my townish category for now. I largely agree with Corrik that your posts scream of scum trying to keep a possible lynch open. But if I'm being completely honest, I could see town Justin doing something like that, too. I just don't think it's as likely.

Chaeix posted...

I argued that you guys shouldn't be so confident using so little information to judge someone when a long period of time has passed. People change over a period of time and I was explaining that the se7en you played with before may be a different se7en than you are playing with now, which has already clearly been demonstrated. The end result was 'I am not making an assumption about se7en'. I was not offering a contrarian opinion, I was saying that I didn't think an opinion should be formed. If you form an opinion then go for it, if you want to discount my comments, go for it. Everyone else has the opportunity to form an opinion and discount my comments too. I have repeatedly mentioned that I like when people acknowledge limitations of their perspective and that is what I was trying to ensure was happening. Not complicated.

Ok, I was with you right up until you got to the bold. This game is all about forming opinions.

Chaeix posted...

Do not vote me for not blindly following yours and MI's logic which led you to believe he was town. Mafia is a game about questioning what people say to eventually find the truth. Mafia is a game about being critical of arguments and forming your own opinions. I am fundamentally being punished for not agreeing with yours and MI's logic. Your vote against me is saying that I was wrong to remain neutral in the face of insufficient information, which is A) not how the game should be played and B) illogical.

This is the best defense I've seen from you yet.

Hrrrmmm... tbqh, I would like to see a claim. I am pretty unsure about you. I feel like those first 2 posts are pretty scummy and this is the best lead I have. turbopuns, you gonna vote or you just gonna sit around?
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At this point I'm also down with a Tony lynch, anybody interested?
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Actually, the more I think about it the more I prefer Tony over Justin.

##Unvote
##Vote: Tony

You got anything to offer? Hello?
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Morning tag
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Reg posted...

VeryInsane posted...

Also, Good News Everyone! We have an archive thanks to zyxyz!

http://zyxyzarchive.x10host.com/index_CTmafia.html

I'm taking this to mean I don't need to worry about handling this

Ping me if this changes for whatever reason

M

Yeah it's fine. At least for now.

If the database is going to be a thing again then maybe we can consider moving it but it's fine where it's at right now
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OK, I got busy running errands and taking my kid to the doctors last night.

Who is JC? Why is (s)he in the lead? Has there been anything noteworthy I should look over prior to deadline, such as claims, arguments, defenses?

I am going to start rereading from about page 7 topic 1 when I am done work, but I'd like to know if anything significant has happened so that I can stay relevant as I reread.
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JC is Chaeix. I summed up my thoughts on him.
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He's also Justin Crossing.
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Oddity posted...

JC is Chaeix. I summed up my thoughts on him.

Which post and topic?
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If JC is Scum, Corrik is 95% Scum.


UltimaterializerX posted...

I am all in favor of a day 1 massclaim!

Town Ulti will fight for a day 1 massclaim. Scum Ulti usually says he's all for it but doesn't actually do anything to make it happen.





And Death, for the last time, actually read my list instead of going "on noes question marks i dont understand me cant read gud"
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First things first, Ulti is not on my ignore list. Yes, it's against the spirit of mafia yada yada I'm not going to discuss this topic anymore.

While I'm not a huge fan of JC and won't oppose his lynch, I don't think he's a sure thing like Corrik does. He's been very fixated on the se7en issue (granted, because that's why people are trying to lynch him) but even with his list of reads I'm still not sure what he thinks on other people and not even sure if he has a vote down. Checking - doesn't look like he's voted at all today. A lot of his posts seem to be stretching / misinterpreting people (myself, primarily) to try to make someone look bad which isn't something I associate with town.

Hm, I was writing this initially with it in mind that I wasn't going to vote him but the more I write, the more confident I'm becoming in him being scum.

I still think there are 2-3 better lynches right now, eaed being one of them. But he's been gone for 12+ hours now so I don't think my vote on him is doing much, so I will join in on another lynch I see as very valid and want to hear more from.

##Unvote:
##Vote: Tony
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

If JC is Scum, Corrik is 95% Scum.

This thought has actually been mulling around in my head too.

Han and I are super in sync which is either fantastic for town or terrifying that he's playing me.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Town Ulti will fight for a day 1 massclaim. Scum Ulti usually says he's all for it but doesn't actually do anything to make it happen.

Yuuuuup.

My Immortal posted...

I still think there are 2-3 better lynches right now

eaed and Tony are 2 of them.

The third in my head is still Ulti - but I'm totally willing to admit that I'm emotional and my wanting to lynch Ulti might be driven by my emotions.
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IGCD, this topic post 20 and 24. I'm kind of mixed on him.
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I've got a few minutes before my class starts so I'll chime in since there aren't very many posts and there's a couple things I can mention quick:

But he's been gone for 12+ hours now so I don't think my vote on him is doing much, so I will join in on another lynch I see as very valid and want to hear more from.

man i went to bed at 2am and it's 9am.

He's been very fixated on the se7en issue (granted, because that's why people are trying to lynch him) but even with his list of reads I'm still not sure what he thinks on other people and not even sure if he has a vote down. Checking - doesn't look like he's voted at all today.

This is what always happens to me, I have a very calm day 1. I have no information and I don't like to get cocky and confident and then realize I was 100% wrong afterwards since my logic was garbage. Then, usually, I get fixated by one of the big players (Corrik/Ulti/Spiral) and then I spend all my energy defending myself instead of being able to actually participate in a discussion. It actually happened with Corrik one of the last games I played before my extended hiatus iirc. I forget what alignment I was but it was still the exact same story. Plus, in the ENTIRE discussion while I was around, nobody actually asked me what my thoughts were on anyone. Everyone just says I haven't been saying anything.

I also said I would offer more thoughts once I saw everyone's response to the whole situation and gave an rough timeline of when I would be around. Class is about to start so this is all I can say for now.
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JC I wasn't on you I was voting eaed.
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oh you meant eaed there with the vote lols

misread
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Also we shouldn't have to ask you for your opinions, you should be giving them!
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Uh so in all this discussion on if it is okay to call se7en town why is everyone talking like only MI and Corrik did so
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MI and Corrik are the only ones who have claimed previous game experience with se7en and both evaluated town.
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I'm trying to decide if deadpool wanting credit as well is adorably towny, or scum upset that they aren't getting town points.
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I'm leaning adorably town.
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It's prof being prof
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Oddity posted...

MI and Corrik are the only ones who have claimed previous game experience with se7en and both evaluated town.

Did I not.

*checks*

Oh I didn't explicitly say I did woops
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My Immortal posted...

Also we shouldn't have to ask you for your opinions, you should be giving them!

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Very concerned at how many people just said JC is likely scum to them and then voted other people. Scum sense is through the f***ing roof.
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Corrik posted...

My Immortal posted...

Also we shouldn't have to ask you for your opinions, you should be giving them!

To be fair, Corrik...

Corrik posted...

If I say something, you guys listen to me?

Corrik posted...

Nevermind. Gonna be one of those games i see.

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