Board 8 > Ace Attorney Discussion Topic, Part 4 - Dark Age of the Law Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

SeabassDebeste posted...

6-2: 5:42

man there's no way it's only 30 minutes shorter than 5-5
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I spent considerably less time on Layton v Wright according to my activity log

I'm pretty good at puzzles though
Not-so-stealth brag because it's tangentially relevant: my team got 11th place out of 350ish in the Microsoft College Puzzle Challenge last weekend...!
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LeonhartFour posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

aa5 comes realllly close to being strictly longer = better, huh

It doesn't come close at all, actually!

just needs 5-5 to be a little longer to pass 5-2 tbqh
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darn you Chalices and More Chalices
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SeabassDebeste posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

aa5 comes realllly close to being strictly longer = better, huh

It doesn't come close at all, actually!

just needs 5-5 to be a little longer to pass 5-2 tbqh

just needs 5-5 and 5-3 to be longer than 5-6

5-6 and 5-2 being similar in length is fitting since they are similar in quality
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yeah I guess 6-6 should be longer than 6-2

6-6 is just so whatever though that I have a hard time seeing it run too long.. even though, now that I think about it, it definitely should top it.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

I spent considerably less time on Layton v Wright according to my activity log

I'm pretty good at puzzles though
Not-so-stealth brag because it's tangentially relevant: my team got 11th place out of 350ish in the Microsoft College Puzzle Challenge last weekend...!

congrats! was this the hackers'/math one or different?
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It was this: https://www.collegepuzzlechallenge.com/Archive/2017/Default.aspx
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Started 6-1. Just a few quick notes before I forget.

Around 11-12 minutes before Ahlbi gets arrested
Around 16 minutes before Phoenix storms in and gets behind the defense's bench
Around 22 minutes before they officially restart the trial

They redid Phoenix's character model a bit. It looks sharper and his animations overall look better. The most noticeable character model upgrade is Trucy's. She looks so much better in SoJ than in DD.

Also, if you want to get an idea of how SoJ took a step up in the "serious business" department compared to DD, just look at Phoenix's character art!

DD: https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/aceattorney/images/9/9e/PhoenixWright-AA5.png

Not exactly lighthearted with the face, but still kinda casual with the pose.

SoJ: https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/aceattorney/images/5/5a/Phoenix_wright_AA6.png

Intense look of determination on the face, clenched fist, ready to throw down.
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Decided to time Rayfa's Divination Seance cutscene, too, while I was at it. It takes 20 seconds for her to do that spiel before she starts, and the cutscene lasts about 1 minute and 40 seconds for two minutes total.
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6-5 is gonna be like 30 hours
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I don't think 6 extra minutes are going to be the breaking point in 6-5 that pushes it over the top
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that's including your post about how long the intros are! everything in aa6 is just drawn out excessively
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like I think the writers probably wrote Xenogears
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Eh, you kind of have to draw out the Khura'in stuff because it's all brand new and foreign, and I think it's mostly relegated to 6-1 and 6-3. The America cases and 6-5 are pretty much straight to business. Dhurke shows up at the office in 6-5 in like the first two minutes.
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you really don't need that much stuff to introduce khura'in. it's common to say you do, but... it can be done in 30%-50% of the time for sure.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

you really don't need that much stuff to introduce khura'in. it's common to say you do, but... it can be done in 30%-50% of the time for sure.

it probably doesn't take as much time as either of you think

because spoilers you both overshot on 6-1
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Anyway, let's talk about 6-1 and, by extension, SoJ as a whole. I love Khura'in as a setting because it's so exotic and different from anything else we've seen in the series to date. As such, I don't really mind that the game takes about 10 minutes to let Ahlbi give you a quick introduction to it. I love the music in Khura'in, too. It feels very mystical, which is appropriate for a setting like this. The game also wastes no time letting you know Maya is in this game if you somehow managed to start the game without knowing that! Phoenix is here to celebrate the end of Maya's training (and about time!), but he arrived two weeks early due to a misunderstanding that Capcom relegated to a YouTube video, which I guess was a wise decision considering people think the intro is already too long as it is...!

During the Dance of Devotion cutscene, in which Rayfa's outfit is so tight you can see the outline of her belly button through it somehow, Ahlbi gets arrested, which is your first red flag that Khura'in is kinda messed up since they're arresting a 9-year-old kid at gunpoint with several armed guards. Your next sign this place is kinda messed up: The bailiffs are all armed and not afraid to let you know it. They also won't let Phoenix enter the courtroom because they think he's just some punk tourist. One of the bailiffs offers to let Phoenix take a picture of him if he'll just beat it! However, once he tells them he's a lawyer, they're so flabbergasted by it that he's able to slip past them and get into the courtroom.

We get a full motion scene of this, as he looks around to see everyone present...except for Ahlbi's defense attorney. He's understandably confused by all of this, which is further compounded when the Judge is already declaring Ahlbi to be guilty ten minutes into the trial (von Karma sneers at a ten minute trial! He'd have done it in a third of the time!). Because Phoenix is a magnet for trouble (something Ahlbi says Maya told him about him, which feels a little bit like the pot calling the kettle black...! Although maybe she's onto something because she only gets in trouble when he's around!), as well as a glutton for punishment, he OBJECTS and takes up his place at the defense's bench. Your next warning sign that Khura'in is a little messed up is that everyone is utterly baffled by what Phoenix is doing and Ahlbi urges him to stop before it's too late. Perhaps the biggest red flag is that Gaspen Payne is dressed like a king and calling himself the Incredible Payne! He's somehow risen to the rank of Chief Prosecutor in three short months.

The Judge tries to shoo Phoenix out of the courtroom and is willing to excuse it all as an ignorant mistake by a foreigner...but Gaspen says he's willing to play along with Phoenix and give him a shot at defending Ahlbi. I don't really care for the guy in 5-1, but he's great here. He feels way more competent here (He has a witness and evidence ready for nearly all of Phoenix's questions despite the fact that he theoretically should never need them), but he's especially vindictive here because he's trying to lure Phoenix into getting trapped by the DC Act. I dunno if Gaspen thought he would just slink away in shame and fear once he found out about the DC Act or if he was actually trying to get him killed. It's hard to say.

The Judge decides to roll with it, although he needs a refresher course on what a defense attorney actually does since Khura'in hasn't seen one in a courtroom in two decades. I love the fact that he openly laughs at Phoenix, especially when he fails. When you expose the lie in Ahlbi's testimony, he goes, "So this is the power of cross-examination! The more the accused talks, the more suspicious he gets!" I like that he gets in a hurry to leave so he can take a class with his wife and is upset when he gets chewed out by her for missing it. This is probably the Khura'in Judge's best case by a long shot.
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it's the only case where the judge has any kind of unique personality outside of, I guess, 6-3 day 2. that's disappointing. he's just a clone after a while.
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Anyway, let's get down to the nuts and bolts. There are five testimonies in all: One by Ahlbi, a Divination Seance (if we want to count it as a "testimony") with three contradictions, and three by Andistan'dhin. The final piece of evidence presented is the lyrics sheet because it contains the hint that shows how the key should be used to open the box. Apparently, the box with the Founder's Orb in it was only unearthed by archaeologists eight years ago, which seems strange for such an important artifact, especially when Andi says the Magatama/Mitamah Key (more on that discrepancy later) has been passed down from head monk to head monk. Did they even know what the thing was for, or was it just a status symbol? I guess it's possible they knew about the Founder's Orb and the box, but it had just been lost for an extended period of time. Who knows.

Phoenix is frustrated by the fact that Ahlbi won't trust him, and Gaspen mocks him that it must be a new feeling to be despised by a client (Lana Skye and Matt Engarde say "hello"). It takes quite a while before they actually broach the subject of the Defense Culpability Act to Phoenix, and the Judge is willing to give him a chance to back out so it won't be applied to him. I like the moment when they superimpose the image of class trial child Phoenix over Ahlbi, and he says this was what he became a lawyer to do: To stand by those who have no one on their side. I know people have criticized Phoenix for doing something incredibly stupid like actually knowingly taking on Ahlbi's defense despite the DC Act and not knowing if he was truly innocent first. Maybe so. There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, and Phoenix has displayed he's more than willing to toe the line (such as trying to cross the burning bridge in 3-5). It's just evidence of how strong his convictions are to me. Speaking from a purely meta standpoint: It's a fictional contrivance that's necessary for the narrative to work, and I have no problem suspending my disbelief for it because you know there's no way Phoenix loses, so it doesn't bother me at all.

Next up, we have SoJ's big new mechanic: The Divination Seance. I liked it and thought it was pretty fun to delve into and sift through, although it's inherently limited in the sense that the victim can't know too much about the circumstances of his death or who killed him (although they made the absolute most of that limitation in 6-3, which I applaud them for, but more on that when the time comes). Rayfa doesn't really make a good first impression because she's belligerent, immature, and condescending. I didn't have high hopes for her after 6-1 because she felt a bit too much like Franziska here, although I do love her G-rated vocabulary (such as saying "Heavens to Betsy!" or calling something malarkey, or using very childish insults like "Barbed Head" or "nincompoop"). It makes me laugh. The Judge shows that he's actually fairly reasonable when he accepts Phoenix's contradictions with Rayfa's Insights and insists on running the trial the old-fashioned way after he has her escorted out.

The case kinda bogs down once Andi takes the stand, honestly. I love his Ultimate Warrior hippy look, all his ridiculous animations (like playing the guitar literally behind his head), and his frequent song references (such as "We're not gonna take it"), but...he's not a great character and the whole singing thing gets old fast, especially if you played Layton/AA first, so it's not even a new gimmick to you. Andi probably epitomizes SD's (often overstated) complaint about how long the animations are in the 3D games better than anyone, although the real problem is how slow he sings his testimony more than anything else. His animations don't really slow anything down. It probably did add a solid 5-10 minutes to the final time of the case with all the singing he does.
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transience posted...

it's the only case where the judge has any kind of unique personality outside of, I guess, 6-3 day 2. that's disappointing. he's just a clone after a while.

Yeah, that's my main problem with the guy after 6-1. He plays the judge role too straight after 6-1. He could've been great if he'd maintained more of that personality, but oh well.

Anyway, I do like the twist that Paht Rohl was the one trying to steal the Founder's Orb, as well as the twist that it was already stolen beforehand, and that's why Andi had to kill him. I was kind of skeptical about the box being able to kill someone in one shot, although I don't really know what it's made of. I'm even more skeptical of the ability of a guitar--excuse me, I meant "dahmalan"--to kill someone in one shot. I guess I watched too much wrestling growing up! What would that thing have to be made of anyway? Well, if you hit him in the right spot, it could have conceivably killed him.

The final twist is that the Magatama Key is actually the Mitamah Key (not the Amatagam Key, sadly, although it's a fantastic "wrong answer" response). It's pretty interesting that the case-making contradiction was the result of a slip of the tongue on the part of the culprit. We get a cool full-motion scene of Phoenix using the Mitamah Key to open the box, and the mystery is solved! Perhaps one of SoJ's biggest flaws is how bad the breakdowns are. Andi's is pretty weak, although it's slightly offset by how good Gaspen's is. Atishon probably has the only truly great breakdown in this game, which is sad.

After the trial, the Minister of Justice himself shows up to give Phoenix a word of warning to know when to cash his chips and get outta there before the house gets called in. I feel like this was the moment I knew how dark and how deep SoJ was about to go, when you have one of the leaders of the country making some not very thinly veiled threats to Phoenix to stay out of their business. You don't really see something on that level in any other game, especially from the intro case, except maybe AAI2. Then we conclude with an out-of-place cutscene of Datz talking to Dhurke about the trial.

6-1 playtime: 2:59:52
6-1 in-game time: 3 hours, 36 minutes

E2-5 - 9:36:06
3-5 - 9:35:46
2-4 - 9:05:21
1-5 - 8:46:43
E1-5 - 8:42:23
E2-3 - 8:09:06
E2-2 - 7:29:23
5-6 - 7:21:19
5-2 - 7:13:40
5-3 - 6:50:24
4-4 - 6:38:01
5-5 - 6:16:05
3-2 - 6:02:56
E2-4 - 6:01:14
4-3 - 5:58:33
3-3 - 5:48:31
2-3 - 5:06:33
1-4 - 4:59:52
4-2 - 4:58:35
E1-4 - 4:58:26
2-2 - 4:47:40
5-4 - 4:27:31
E1-3 - 4:02:16
1-3 - 3:49:35
E2-1 - 3:36:32
E1-2 - 3:15:49
6-1 - 2:59:52
1-2 - 2:40:40
5-1 - 2:19:33
4-1 - 2:11:44
3-4 - 1:54:15
E1-1 - 1:44:51
3-1 - 1:43:09
2-1 - 1:15:57
4-0 - 1:09:44
1-1 - 0:33:35


6-1 goes sub-3 hours! What an upset! Oh wait.

LeonhartFour posted...

6-1 is probably around 3 hours, I'd guess, but I don't expect it to beat out E2-1.

I believe I had that!
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Oh right, there was also an interesting moment when Inga looks him up and down for several seconds, and Phoenix feels very uncomfortable as he does it. Probably the first hint about his prosopagnosia!
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Before I forget: "The Basics of the Case" is probably the best "time to explain stuff" song in the series since the original "Logic and Tricks" in PW1. Super catchy.

And both Cornered themes are great. It was kind of interesting that they based the Announce the Truth theme here off of PW1's, too. It was one of the few PW1 songs they'd never revisited until now! The cross-examination themes are okay, I guess. Not great, but fine.

Oh right, another great Andi music reference: When the Judge comments on Andi's transformation and wonders what the heck that music is, he asks him, "What's your jam? Orchestra? Jazz Soul?" a.k.a. two of the Ace Attorney music remix albums they've done!
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All right, since 6-2 is such a long investigation day, I'm going to split it up a bit, especially so I don't forget stuff. The opening scenes with Trucy's magic tricks are pretty fun. Apollo and Athena visit Trucy backstage during intermission. Athena wonders what she should say to her when she sees her, and Apollo just goes, "Uh...The same things you say when you see her at the office everyday?" Athena asks for her autograph, and when Trucy asks if Apollo wants one, too, he gives a long pause and eventually admits, "Actually, I would." If you investigate the flowers in her dressing room (huzzah for the return of free investigations!), you'll see that one bouquet is from Klavier, one is from Lamiroir, and one is from Damian and Jinxie, who includes a card thanking Mr. Demon Lawyer for helping her overcome her fears.

Unfortunately, it takes a turn for the disastrous as Mr. Reus (great name, don't care what anyone says) seemingly drops dead during the show and the giant dragon setpiece falls. Did you notice the two shadows in the background during this part the first time through? I'm pretty sure I did, but Athena points it out during the investigation in case you missed it (and Apollo did, for one). We're all forced to vacate the premises and we run into Robert Downey, Jr. on the way out. We decide to go back to the office for the time being. Unfortunately, no matter how many times they call, they can't get a hold of Phoenix, but then they find out he's on the news after winning a case in Khura'in! Then the news segues into Trucy being arrested for involuntary manslaughter, and so, after taking some time to investigate the office before we go (I've missed you, Charley), we're off to the detention center, which has great new music! Might be my favorite detention center theme in the series here.

The scene with Apollo, Athena, and Trucy here is excellent. I celebrated so hard when Apollo asked Trucy to explain how the trick worked, and she actually complied! Based on that alone, it had already surpassed 4-3 in my book (which doesn't take much, but still)! Trucy insists she didn't screw up the trick and tries to play off that she's fine, but...you can't fool Apollo! Honestly, even though it's ridiculously simple, this is probably the best Perceive in the series by a long shot because they play it so well. Apollo can tell that she's really not fine and wants her to tell him what's bothering her. Trucy's afraid of how he'll react, but he presents his attorney's badge and says he swore to believe his clients to the bitter end, no matter what. One of the really neat touches in SoJ is how they actually use the attorney's badge as a prompt in all the full-length cases (maybe not in 6-6, but I don't remember). You're used to it only being there for show and out of habit, but then they actually make use of it. I'm pretty sure PW1 was the last time the badge was actually necessary in an investigation.

Anyway, Trucy drops the facade and wonders if maybe she really did screw up. She might have ruined her career and ended someone's life in the process. After listening to her story and confirming that she believes she switched the swords, Apollo tells Trucy that he believes in her innocence because he knows her. He knows she's a consummate professional and a perfectionist when it comes to her trade. And for the first time, Trucy cries and thanks him for believing in her, and she calls him "Apollo" instead of just "Polly." If there's one thing SoJ really nailed, it's the emotional, poignant scenes like this. It's a bit hyperbolic to say this, but 6-2 is a good case simply because this scene exists.

More later!
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LeonhartFour posted...

And both Cornered themes are great. It was kind of interesting that they based the Announce the Truth theme here off of PW1's, too. It was one of the few PW1 songs they'd never revisited until now! The cross-examination themes are okay, I guess. Not great, but fine.

I think AA2 and 3's AtT themes were both derived from AA1's, just twisted a little.
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Oh yeah, I wanted to predict times. I already did 6-1

6-1: 2:50 (pretty good!)
6-2: 4:53
6-3: 7:31
6-4: 4:12
6-5: 11:16
6-6: 6:05

I guess everyone's too busy with Easter stuff to comment! Understandable! Anyway, 6-2 investigation day complete! Whew, what a marathon of a day. Thankfully, I was prepared for it! Once we take on Trucy's case, Apollo and Athena run here, there, and everywhere. It's a very involved investigation, which makes sense because we're dealing with magic tricks and stuff. There are plenty of good moments between Apollo and Athena along the way, too. If you check out the red jacket at the office, Apollo will reminisce on why he never wears it: Trucy apparently thought he was getting ready to take up a career in comedy with Phoenix and Athena. She dubbed them the "Primary Color Partners," and that was the end of the jacket. Later on, Bonny confuses Apollo and Athena for a comedy duo who specializes in "old married couple" routines, much to the mortification of them both.

A couple of neat investigation points: If you investigate the outside of the theater, Athena will explain that the Penrose Theater gets its name from the penrose triangle, which is an impossible object, and the theater seemingly having a giant cube poking out of it is merely an optical illusion. I wonder if it's even feasible to build something that looks like that! And who should we meet outside the theater but Ema Skye, now a full-fledged scientific investigator! Apollo is understandably wary of her due to her grumpiness in AJ, but she declares that stress and Snackoos are things of the past! She has some great new animations, particularly the one where she sways back and forth as she thinks. It's so good. I like the one where she flips up her glasses after she's examined something, too. Anyway, Ema tells us that the case is now being treated as a homicide rather than involuntary manslaughter. The prosecutor in charge of the case determined it was murder and not an accident. Apollo reacts strangely to the name of Nahyuta Sahdmadhi, but he's never been one to reveal much about himself, so he doesn't say anything more than "You could say I've heard of him."

The investigation of the stage takes quite a while, in no small part due to how terrible fingerprinting is now. Please fix this before AA7. It's just a really big area though, especially now that you can view it at three different angles. The investigation creates a few mysteries, particularly how Mr. Reus's handprints made it look like he was facing the wrong direction. The game does a good job of dropping hints at you though, like telling you that the panels are reversible. We climb the ladder and investigate the area above the stage, and Apollo is so nervous that he literally has to hold Athena's hand to make it through. Poor Mr. Hat's cape is ripped, which I guess is your big hint about the sword hanging up there that killed Reus.

After we finally finish, Roger Retinz shows up. He's...a strange character, to say the least. He feels like a satire of the absurdity and subsequent dangers of social media and television. He can be kind of funny at times, but he's honestly a little unsettling as a character, especially once he lets you know he hates Trucy and the Gramaryes, and he plans on using his power as a TV producer to ruin her. He does make a couple of hypocritical remarks by calling us money-grubbers and saying we're only in it for the money as he fans himself with money.
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I think I went under on 6-2 now that I think about it. It's pretty hefty

I feel dumb but what's the pun for Roger Retinz? Or is there not one?
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TheRock1525 posted...

I feel dumb but what's the pun for Roger Retinz? Or is there not one?

It's supposed to be similar to "Ratings Rajah," his nickname, just backwards.
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LeonhartFour posted...

I guess everyone's too busy with Easter stuff to comment! Understandable!

ninja'd!
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Ah, that makes sense now.
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Next up: Bonny! transience hates her for some reason, but I think she's fun. SoJ's "Strange People" theme is really good here, and it fits her well. I like her animations, my favorite of which is when she pulls up the hat to release the bunny, but nothing shows up, so she peeks up into the hat to see what went wrong. After a couple of seconds, she takes a sidelong glance at the camera, gives a quick smirk, and goes back to bouncing happily. It's one of those infamous drawn out animations, but I never get tired of watching it. Anyway, Bonny claims to be a huge fan of Trucy and the Gramaryes, and subsequently proves it by ranting for quite a while about them both! She tells us about how she screwed up the Mr. Hat trick by putting him on the wrong side, and she agrees to open up THE ABYSS for us so we can investigate it.

Unfortunately, Retinz isn't far behind and he shows us the contract Trucy supposedly signed that says she owes three million bucks if she causes the show to be canceled. It's a staggering moment, but they add some levity by suggesting some reality shows they could partake in to earn some money, particularly Apollo joining the cast of Deadliest--excuse me, Craziest--Catch. Athena seems strangely on board with the idea, but Apollo adamantly refuses. After all, he can't even swim (6-5 foreshadowing, sort of)! There's also a great moment afterwards when Athena says they should have a lawyer look at this contract, and Apollo just stares at her silently until she realizes what she just said. We ask Trucy about the contract, of which she has no idea and was obviously conned into it somehow, and the botched magic trick, which she explains how she fixed without anyone noticing.

Next up: THE ABYSS, the place where magic is useless. Apparently, that's legitimate magic industry jargon for the understage area! Who knew! It's a neat-looking area, and Apollo and Athena trade several jabs back and forth here. Afterward, we get a disturbing scene between Retinz and Bonny, whose character suddenly flips on a dime and she starts talking about how much she hates Trucy. I guess this is supposed to be a hint about them being twins, because all of Bonny's praise seemed very sincere.

The last locale we tackle is Take-2 TV. Not much to see here other than getting a confirmation of Retinz's alibi that he was here during the crime. There's also a disturbing show where viewers are voting on whether it was just an accident or if Trucy murdered Reus, and "murder" is winning. Athena recommends we take a third option in court tomorrow! You get some good banter between Apollo and Athena here, particularly if you example the roulette wheel and slot machine things. Athena mentions how she'd like to try gambling sometime, but that might not be necessary since she gets plenty of it in her life betting on whether Apollo will win or lose all the time. Apollo initially takes it as an insult, but Athena says she only bets on winners and she hasn't lost yet, so it's kinda sweet in a way.

We head back to the office, only to find REPOSSESSED stickers on literally everything. Retinz is apparently planning on making good on the contract right away, which seems a little premature. Apollo and Athena are naturally freaking out, and right after Retinz leaves, Phoenix finally calls and he gives them some advice. If they can prove Trucy's innocence, they can save the office. Finally, Phoenix gives Apollo the vote of confidence saying he knows he can trust him to take care of everything even while he's away. He tells him he believes in him, and afterward, Apollo has such a big smile on his face that Athena can't help but take notice of it. It's a really great moment and a nice way to conclude the investigation.

also I didn't see this supposed "finish the day by recapping the investigation" thing you guys claim happens in SoJ maybe I missed it somehow
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it might just be a Phoenix thing? 6-2 is the only non-Phoenix case with an investigation
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transience posted...

6-2 is the only non-Phoenix case with an investigation

*stares blankly*
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you're talking about 6-5 day 1? he's there!
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LeonhartFour posted...

There's also a great moment afterwards when Athena says they should have a lawyer look at this contract, and Apollo just stares at her silently until she realizes what she just said.

This is such a weird moment for me because none of the characters in AA ever really show off a really deep knowledge of the nuts and bolts of actual law, they're more like a really good debate team. Which is certainly part of lawyering, but I can't imagine even someone like Phoenix reviewing a contract or some other more boring sort of lawyerly work. I can imagine Edgeworth, the von Karmas, Nahyuta, maybe even Blackquill doing it, but none of the defense attorneys.

6-5 is not a Phoenix case!

and he definitely isn't going to be helping you recap anything there
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Paratroopa1 posted...

This is such a weird moment for me because none of the characters in AA ever really show off a really deep knowledge of the nuts and bolts of actual law, they're more like a really good debate team. Which is certainly part of lawyering, but I can't imagine even someone like Phoenix reviewing a contract or some other more boring sort of lawyerly work.

Well, Athena mentions they specialize in criminal law in 6-5, but day 1 is certainly that kind of nuts and bolts type case.

But yeah, they sort of make a mockery of Phoenix's seeming lack of knowledge, especially in the OT where there's this running gag that he literally never reads his law books.
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Yeah, 6-5 part 1 is sort of an amusing exception to this, in that it's more about like contract technicalities and shit (a very simplified sort, but nontheless).

New topic:

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/75246770
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Oh right, another thing I forgot to mention: SoJ's American version of "Core" is really good. This OST is better than I remember! It might rank up there with the best ones in the series.
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Okay, we've hit the recess in the 6-2 trial, so I figure I'd better do an update now! So far, we've had three testimonies: One by Ema, a Mood Matrix--an interesting variation thereof where you have to press every statement in her initial testimony first before it activates--with Betty (with two contradictions--the first results in her dropping the Bonny act and the second results in them revealing the fact they're twins), and a testimony with Bonny and Betty together. Nahyuta initially has a very low-key introduction, where he seems very polite and kind...until it's time to make his case and then he goes right for the jugular. He certainly doesn't mince words when it comes to what he thinks of Trucy and her lawyers. 6-2 is weird playing with the benefit of hindsight because you know the two grew up together, but they don't even acknowledge each other's existence here. Apollo gives you a few morsels in his inner monologue to suggest he might know him, but that's about it. Nahyuta doesn't even call Apollo by name, instead preferring any number of insulting nicknames, particularly "putrid red pepper." You thought Godot, Klavier, or Blackquill enjoyed giving people insulting nicknames? They got nothin' on this guy!

Anyway, Ema's testimony is interesting because she wants to be on Apollo and Trucy's side, but of course, Nahyuta admonishes her (and rightfully so) every time she attempts to plead on Trucy's behalf. I do like how Nahyuta does praise her for dealing with her conflict of interest well at the end. He can be a nice guy when he wants to be, although it isn't often! It feels like both sides are grasping at straws trying to figure out what happened initially. Neither side has solid evidence of how everything played out, which makes sense, since it's a magic show and misdirection is the name of the game. Nahyuta does a pretty good job of anticipating nearly all of Apollo's objections for the first part of the trial, although he's adjusting his own case on the fly as well. I think I remember Para saying that Nahyuta doesn't really make a good first impression because he's totally wrong on the murder from the get-go, but I noticed there were a couple of times when Apollo would present some evidence that Nahyuta knew nothing about. Athena speculates that Ema deliberately withheld it from him to help Trucy, and maybe that explains why he's shooting in the dark from time to time.

Anyway, once we're done with Ema, Betty takes the stand, still masquerading as Bonny, although she breaks character with such increasing frequency that Athena suggests a therapy session, and neither the Judge nor Nahyuta object to it because she's clearly acting very odd. Apollo really takes charge while Betty is on the stand. He does a good job of filtering through her lies. He figures out that she must have been understage at the same time as Trucy because she saw her moving the lift, and thus there must be two of them. He presents the mystery fingerprints on the coffin as further proof, and eventually, the gig is up. I love the scene where they both appear. It's really fun, and the disparity between Apollo and Athena when Bonny appears on the defense's bench is great. Apollo has his shocked animation and Athena has her happy one. I also like it when they try to do their "floating" trick, except you can clearly see that Bonny is holding up Betty. The Judge is awed by it, but Apollo points out the solution. Athena says he's supposed to play along with the trick because that's proper etiquette, but he replies that he can't help pointing out a contradiction when he sees one! He's a lawyer through and through!
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However, Nahyuta takes charge here once Bonny and Betty are both on the stand together. He's the one who exposes that the whole thing with Mr. Reus (real name: Manov Mistree also great don't care what anyone says) was an elaborate prank set up by Roger Retinz. He presents a note with Trucy's signature on it to suggest she knew about it in advance and took advantage of it to kill Reus. Betty also presents the video of Reus filming himself before he enters the coffin to prove he was still alive at that time, and thus he could not have been killed understage as Apollo had suggested. That shifts suspicion squarely back on to Trucy because everyone still believes Reus was dead before the coffin was opened. The crowd (several of whom were planted there by Retinz) start an outcry against Trucy and things seem to be turning against her, until Apollo suggests she was framed and the sword she stabbed into the coffin was rubber. The Judge decides to give Trucy a chance to set the record straight herself, but he wants a recess first.

During the recess, Retinz shows up to gloat about the "fans" he called in. He tries to film Trucy's reaction to everything, but Athena butts him and tells him filming is prohibited. Next thing you know, the camera's gone and then Retinz takes off. Trucy says that was a high level sleight of hand, which confuses Apollo because of how much Retinz claims to hate magicians. I guess this is when most people figured out he was the real Mr. Reus, but that didn't really occur to me! It's easy for me to connect the dots now, but I didn't figure a guy who hates magicians would turn out to be one! Oh well.

Time to finish this up.
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Bonny and Betty are fucking adorable but ugggh the twist where they're secret twins is just so weakly justified, they should have shown them doing more stuff they shouldn't have been able to do aside from a really flimsy 'well, Bonny shouldn't have been able to know about this!' thing that doesn't hold up to scrutiny well

They probably could've done more with that twist if 6-2 had a second day, but yeah.
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They could have done some kind of 'the facts say that Bonny must have been in two places at the same time, but how' thing, which I know is cliche, but I feel like if you're going to do the twins thing you might as well really go balls to the wall. I realize a lot of the things you could do would be a retread of ground far better executed in 3-5 but ugh if you're even going to do it at all, why

I like how the fingerprints on the top of the coffin are Betty's, and you can see it in the intro video even, but that one's so subtle that we're never allowed to draw conclusions from it or anything

6-2 does several subtle things in terms of evidence you don't even notice, like the panels being switched because Retinz didn't realize Bonny screwed up the trick until after he tried to plant blood in the hole where he thought Trucy plunged the sword. The fact that there's blood in that hole is mentioned in passing but then it turns out to be a crucial piece of evidence in Apollo's Revisualization. The case probably could've benefited from a second day to pace it better, honestly.

Paratroopa1 posted...

They could have done some kind of 'the facts say that Bonny must have been in two places at the same time, but how' thing

I mean, they did

Betty knew Trucy moved the lifts during the trick even though there's no way she should have been able to know that

It's nothing crazy like maybe you want, but it was enough to expose her, especially for SoJ tier Apollo.
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twins are such an inherently silly plot device that i actually enjoyed the execution more in 6-2 (an explicitly silly case) than in 3-5 (where we're meant to take it seriously)
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satorha!
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