Board 8 > Chrono Trigger Mafia Topic 8: They Call Me Gato, I Have Metal Joints

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aanqnyJy-JU

Beat Me Up
And earn 15 silver points


Rules:
http://lolreg.altervista.org/Rules.html

Got 15 Silver Points

1. Chaeix
2. Corrik
3. bng_mmmk (replaced Dark_Spiral)
4. dowolf
5. eaedwards6400
6. masterplum
7. Oddity
8. pjbasis
9. profDEADPOOL
10. red13n


Game Over'd at Gato.

[LD1] KanzarisKelshen - Schala, Town Roleblocker
[KN1] My Immortal - Magus, Town Miller Doctor
[KN1] htaeD - Crono, Town Vanilla
[LD2] UltimaterializerX - Queen Zeal, Mafia Roleblocker
[KN2] ChaosTonyV4 - Gaspar, Town Cop
[KN2] Shaduln - Frog, Town Tracker
[KN2] HanOfTheNekos - Masa & Mune, Town 1-Use Doublevoter
[LD3] Se7enthrust - GI Jogger, Town Vanilla
[KN3] IfGodCouldDie - Mother Brain, Mafia Flavor Scanner

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day ends at 10 PM EDT on March 25, 2017 or when a majority is reached.

Archive:

http://zyxyzarchive.x10host.com/index_CTmafia.html

Day 1 votals:

[8] Kanz - (plum), (JC), (Ulti), Oddity, Tony, (JC), plum, Ulti, IGCD, puns, Se7en, JC
[5] Ulti - (Kanz), (IGCD), (Kanz), (prof), Kanz, prof, Shad, MI, (Se7en), Corrik
[1] eaed - (Han), (MI), (dowolf), (MI), Han
[1] red - (Puns), (Se7en), Death
[1] pj - (IGCD), (Shad), (Kan), eaed
[1] Se7en - (prof), dowolf
[1] prof - (Ulti), (Tony), (Corrik), pj, (Ulti)
[1] Tony - (Shad), (Oddity), (MI), (Kanz), red, (Corrik), (pj), (Prof), (Kan), (Han), (Dowolf)
[0] IGCD - (Puns
[0] Corrik - (eaed)
[0] Han - (Ulti), (eaed)
[0] Shad - (Tony)
[0] JC - (dowolf), (Corrik), (pj), (Oddity), (Ulti), (MI), (Corrik), (MI), (pj), (death), (plum), (tony), (prof), (Dowolf)
[0] Death - (Ulti), (Kan)
[0] dowolf - (plum), (JC), (Tony)
[0] plum - (dowolf)
[0] MI - (Puns)
[0] Oddity - (Tony), (prof)

Day 2 votals:

[8] Ulti - prof, (red), pj, se7en, Corrik, (IGCD), JC, dowolf, Tony, puns
[1] IGCD - (JC), (puns), Ulti
[2] pj - plum, eaed
[1] plum - Shad
[0] Se7en - (dowolf)

Day 3 votals:

[5] Se7en - dowolf, (prof), eaed, red, JC, IGCD
[4] JC - (Corrik), (plum), (puns), pj, puns, plum, prof
[2] Puns - (Corrik), Oddity, Corrik
[0] Red - (Corrik)
[0] IGCD - (plum), (puns), (JC), (Se7en), (pj), (puns), (plum)
[0] Corrik - (Oddity), (puns), (Oddity)
[0] Oddity - (Corrik), (Corrik)
[0] plum - (JC), (Corrik), (JC), (Oddity)
---

[4] plum - (Puns), (Oddity), JC, (prof), Corrik, (Puns), dowolf, red
[1] JC - (Corrik), Plum
[1] red - prof


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day ends at 10 PM EDT on Saturday, March 25 2017, or when a majority is reached.
---

...

Well after sleeping on it.

I do think 3 scum is right.

PJ is SK.

That puts us at 5 against 3 going into the next day.

If we lynch scum.

4 or 5 vs 2 or 1 vs 1.

If we lynch town.

3 or 4 vs 3 or 2 vs 1.

Goddammit we do need to lynch Plum.

##unvote:
##vote: Plum

I still think that if Plum does flip Lavos the scum team is Red/JC/Oddity but there is still a chance Plum is desperate scum claiming that to try and survive so the all around better play is his lynch as much as I hate Red's post.
---

But before someone ends let's dissect the issue.

red13n posted...

Unfortunately, we are not at a point in the game where we can afford to keep you around. The bad thing is, had you shot town tonight, we would have been in that position.

We can't afford to keep Plum around. I agree with that.

However.

"We would have been in that position"

Meaning Red is saying "had you been town we would have been in a position where we could afford to keep you around"

That statement is flat out wrong from town perspective.

We are currently 6-3-1.

If Plum had killed town we would be 5-4-1.

That would make us in a position where we can't afford to lynch Plum not in a position where we can afford to not lynch him. Can afford to not lynch Plum means we have the numbers to leash him. Meanwhile Plum killing town would have forced us to leash Plum or lose.

Scum is the opposite. Scum can't afford to not lynch Plum today like town. However had Plum killed Town and this day was 5-4-1 they could then have afforded to leash Plum today and not lynched him. What Red said is the scum perspective on if scum can leash Plum not the town perspective on if town has to leash Plum to not lose.
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Wait

You don't think I'm SK?

Lol ok
---

This is pretty easy to test.

Lynch JC. Tell me who to kill and they die, and I'll throw in a free flavor scan to Boot! Or a track! I can do both! (But not at the same time)
---

So the TL:DR is Red said "we could have afforded to leash Plum if Plum killed town".

That statement is incorrect if we is referring to town. Town lynching Plum at 5-4-1 would make Town lose if scum gets an NK off. That means that Town would have to keep Plum alive.

However 4-4-1 or 5-3-1 depending on if we lynched scum or not is still winnable by scum. Meaning Scum could afford to leave Plum alive during this lynch even if the ideal would be his lynch so scum flat out wins barring the lack of a NK.

So if Red/JC/Oddity did submit an NK that was stopped for whatever reason those two sentences from Red make a lot more sense than Red being town. Even if they chose to not NK to try and make Red seem town the sentence still makes sense since scum could afford to not lynch Plum today even though doing so would be optimal
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masterplum posted...

Wait

You don't think I'm SK?

Lol ok

I think you are 99% SK with a 1% chance of scum attempting to not be lynched.
---

...

Oh.

Why did I say PJ is SK.

I meant Plum is SK.

That was dumb of me.
---

profDEADPOOL posted...

masterplum posted...

Wait

You don't think I'm SK?

Lol ok

I think you are 99% SK with a 1% chance of scum attempting to not be lynched.

Fair. If I wer scum I would certainly try it.

The Shad kill should be proof though. Look at the day start and notice how I think he has a scan on me
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profDEADPOOL posted...

...

Well after sleeping on it.

I do think 3 scum is right.

Plum is SK.

That puts us at 5 against 3 going into the next day.

If we lynch scum.

4 or 5 vs 2 or 1 vs 1.

If we lynch town.

3 or 4 vs 3 or 2 vs 1.

Goddammit we do need to lynch Plum.

I still think that if Plum does flip Lavos the scum team is Red/JC/Oddity but there is still a chance Plum is desperate scum claiming that to try and survive so the all around better play is his lynch as much as I hate Red's post.

Fixed.
---

Anyways it is also entirely possible it is JC/Red/someone else and Oddity is town inventor who got tricked by them into thinking they were town. Either both of JC and Red are scum or neither is or scum tried to shoot Plum(which I doubt)
---

masterplum posted...

profDEADPOOL posted...

masterplum posted...

Wait

You don't think I'm SK?

Lol ok

I think you are 99% SK with a 1% chance of scum attempting to not be lynched.

Fair. If I wer scum I would certainly try it.

The Shad kill should be proof though. Look at the day start and notice how I think he has a scan on me

Uh... No?

You as scum could have killed Shad for the same reason. So that is in no way proof.
---

Red/jc mafia pair is plausible. red/jc/oddity is getting into some next level conspiracy territory which I refuse to entertain, at least not today.

When I proposed a mass claim after N2, red said he could confirm not all power was dead. Why did he say that if he'd been given a scan but wasn't ready to report anything?
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puns - he had a scan. He knew inventor had not flipped, so he could confirm that power still existed. However, if your point is that town red would have concealed all info, I'll concede your point has merit.
---

I'm gonna be totally occupied for the rest of the day beginning at 2pm eastern, so ~3 hours from now. I'm all for ending day around then or just letting it ride out (assuming VI won't/can't keep days on a 2pm cycle)
---

I mean, I still think you're wrong. But the argument does make sense to me.
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Oddity posted...

puns - he had a scan. He knew inventor had not flipped, so he could confirm that power still existed. However, if your point is that town red would have concealed all info, I'll concede your point has merit.

Yeah my point is why paint a target on his back while holding a scan?
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Just saying "can confirm not all power is dead" he wasn't exactly helping.
---

I haven't gone back and read it, but I feel like town morale was tanking at that point and I happen to think town morale is important to keep up so in that sense he was helping town. But it's a pretty WIFOM argument so... yah.
---

Am I the only one in the "let's finish the mass today" camp?

Last I recall playing on B8, it was pretty much standard operating procedure if you were at day 3/4 with all the dead power we currently see flipped.
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oh yah puns. I totally forgot to update you in my list. Just realized. If plum is SK then his refusal to vote you does not make you look scummy (the implication there was that you were scumbuddies). I still think your throwing shade on me as possible sk inventor does make you look scummy, but the scum read is not as strong.
---

I happen to think red is town, and he hasn't claimed yet. I don't believe in town claiming to give scum info. Who else hasn't claimed, I remember thinking there was still town amongst them.
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Oddity posted...

I haven't gone back and read it, but I feel like town morale was tanking at that point and I happen to think town morale is important to keep up so in that sense he was helping town. But it's a pretty WIFOM argument so... yah.

I mean, l don't know about you, but lynching scanned scum usually improves town morale.
---

Oh yah, dowolf is in there too. dowolf is townish but... he's also good enough to fool me. If he's town massclaim would hurt town significantly because if he's power, he will use it well.
---

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point there, puns. He hadn't scanned at that point. ???
---

Oddity posted...

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point there, puns. He hadn't scanned at that point. ???

You targeted him n1, yes?

Did red say when or how exactly he knows plum is scum? It either was N2 or N3, but either way it doesn't make a difference.

Either he had the power to scan and confirmed power was alive, or he had already used the scan and confirmed power was alive without revealing. It's the same difference though. Painting a target on his back with the potential to bury scum if he doesn't die.
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Tag
---

I remember the timeline here pretty well because I was paying a lot of attention to red. Day 2 he said town power wasn't all dead, he had not scanned at that point, but he did have the scan in hand. He said plum is scum today, the day after he scanned plum. I'm not entirely sure I agree with your point here puns. I'm starting to see what you're saying but... I disagree.
---

Basically Corrik was saying 'hey massclaim is useless because all town power is dead.' And red was all like 'lol no.' For context's sake.
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Oddity posted...

I remember the timeline here pretty well because I was paying a lot of attention to red. Day 2 he said town power wasn't all dead, he had not scanned at that point, but he did have the scan in hand. He said plum is scum today, the day after he scanned plum. I'm not entirely sure I agree with your point here puns. I'm starting to see what you're saying but... I disagree.

Not quite. I said we should mass after N2, so it was Day 3 red said not all power was dead.


How can you disagree?

We had dead Roleblocker, Doctor, Cop, Tracker, 1-use doublevoter.

Red confirms there's still power left.

How's that not painting a target on what's likely to be the last significant power at that point, if he's town with a scan?

Isn't "keep scum in the dark" the logic people are stating for not wanting to mass today?
---

hmm... yah, I guess you're right. So let's see here

n1: red receives scan day 2: I forget who the lynch was, oh yah Ulti, that's why I thought it was day 2 because ulti lynch was like a non-day n2: red holds scan (ballsy imho, I would have scanned) day 3: Corrik is like 'hey massclaim is useless because town power all died' to which red responded there is still town power. This is where my town morale argument comes into play. We had just lost a lot of freaking power. Town that feels defeated is inactive. So red was basically just saying don't give up. Again super WIFOM argument so... eh.
---

Since red knows there is an inventor and he knows it's me (I breadcrumbed red day 2 I think it was. I said 'anybody you got your eye on red?' The scan was a sight scope). If he theorizes that I have a save and guesses I would give that on night 2, then the day 3 he could possibly know that a save existed and was there for him. Getting pretty rabbit holey now, though.
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Just to makenaure it's abundantly clear

Scum inventor is a thing. The role has existed before
---

how the hell does scum inventor even work? The whole point is that you're giving to unreliable people.
---

prof is town. All that theorizing is not something he can fake as scum.

Oddity's likely town because inventor fits with the dead power and at this point I think if anyone was going to counter at all it would've happened.

eaed is just sorta hanging out in my town pile because I don't have any reason to suspect him other than generally not accomplishing anything. But that's par for him. He's been trying to put stuff together. Plum was pushing for him as scum most but if plum flips SK that's moot.

Corrik/dowolf are kinda equivalent in my mind. Both skilled players who haven't really achieved much in this game. Either could be scum just playing a long slow coasty kind of game. Doesn't sound like corrik but it would be foolish to think it's outside his skills. Dowolf I don't know as well as corrik so I slightly favor him as scum between the two.

pjbasis is playing? Yeah...dude is scummy.

JC I'm going back and forth on. He makes some posts that convince me he's town but then circumstances make me think he's scum. I don't know him whatsoever and Oddity has been reading him solidly as town based on personality. He's kinda tied to red though now, which is worrisome because any scum team with Ulti and red is going to have a pretty good plan. Also same deal as with eaed re: plum being SK.

red is the best player in the game and I also don't have any memorable experience playing with him. I feel like he's been a shadow for a lot of the game and I hate that. He's not been totally inactive, just sorta on the fringes. And I can't wrap my head around why he would indicate power at that stage of the game. No kills by mafia happen more often than you might think in these types of situations when they have little or no power left to fear and have a lead.

plum claimed SK.




tl;dr

lynch today - plum

Won't lynch - prof, Oddity

Don't want to entertain lynching unless endgame - eaed, corrik, dowolf

Good Potential for scum - red, JC, pj
---

Oddity posted...

how the hell does scum inventor even work? The whole point is that you're giving to unreliable people.

It works exactly like town inventor.

Give your buddies items and don't claim it. Or give some to town to gain trust. Or whatever. It's not complicated.
---

Seems op for scum. You'd have to like gimp em pretty hard, right?
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I'm leaving for a bit, soon. Will probably be around for end of day? But I'm in and out all day.
---

Scum inventor is basically just a bad scum jack.
---

does anyone still have more talking they want to do?

or are you like me and basically waiting for someone to hammer already.
---

I've gotta go in 30 minutes. I'll vote at that time if it's still like this.
---

bng_mmmk posted...

prof is town. All that theorizing is not something he can fake as scum.

Oddity's likely town because inventor fits with the dead power and at this point I think if anyone was going to counter at all it would've happened.

eaed is just sorta hanging out in my town pile because I don't have any reason to suspect him other than generally not accomplishing anything. But that's par for him. He's been trying to put stuff together. Plum was pushing for him as scum most but if plum flips SK that's moot.

Corrik/dowolf are kinda equivalent in my mind. Both skilled players who haven't really achieved much in this game. Either could be scum just playing a long slow coasty kind of game. Doesn't sound like corrik but it would be foolish to think it's outside his skills. Dowolf I don't know as well as corrik so I slightly favor him as scum between the two.

pjbasis is playing? Yeah...dude is scummy.

JC I'm going back and forth on. He makes some posts that convince me he's town but then circumstances make me think he's scum. I don't know him whatsoever and Oddity has been reading him solidly as town based on personality. He's kinda tied to red though now, which is worrisome because any scum team with Ulti and red is going to have a pretty good plan. Also same deal as with eaed re: plum being SK.

red is the best player in the game and I also don't have any memorable experience playing with him. I feel like he's been a shadow for a lot of the game and I hate that. He's not been totally inactive, just sorta on the fringes. And I can't wrap my head around why he would indicate power at that stage of the game. No kills by mafia happen more often than you might think in these types of situations when they have little or no power left to fear and have a lead.

plum claimed SK.




tl;dr

lynch today - plum

Won't lynch - prof, Oddity

Don't want to entertain lynching unless endgame - eaed, corrik, dowolf

Good Potential for scum - red, JC, pj

Dowolf corrik and pj are town
---

Well that narrows it down.
---

I love how I come before Corrik in that list.
---

I'm kinda thinking I shouldn't hammer. It's just me being selfish, though. Since I know I'm not going to be around most of the time between now and deadline anyway I'd rather have some more posts happen during that time than have it just be night. We won't have day going up in the middle of the afternoon tomorrow anyway.

Plus some people haven't answered my question of who's scum.
---

You guys can hammer now. I'm good
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Oh by the way

Full disclosure,

I'm not bullet proof. This SK variant blowed, I had to claim BP to try to not get shot.
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Toodles!
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One of these days I'll roll independent.
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