Board 8 > Ace Attorney Discussion Topic, Part 5 - Let It Go and Move On Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

I expected the Crystal of Ami Fey and the Founder's Orb to be the same thing, and Maya would channel Ami Fey at the end for some reason

My guess was also that the Orb and the Crystal were the same object. I also thought that Ami Fey and the Holy Mother were the same person.
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I thought that throughout trial day 1. I thought it was more or less debunked there but I don't remember. I let that go by day 2.
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I believe they do confirm that the Orb and the Crystal are different objects fairly early on during the trial Day 1. I think I mostly accepted that they were different objects at the time. I don't really remember when I gave up on my theory of the Holy Mother and Ami Fey being the same person.
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The Seahawks drafted someone named Amara

I hope he can do the hands thing

Paratroopa1 posted...

The Seahawks drafted someone named Amara

I hope he can do the hands thing

He could hypnotize everyone on the field with that!

Also, I don't think I ever had the theory that Ami Fey = Holy Mother and Crystal = Orb, but it does get debunked pretty early in the first trial day.
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transience posted...

actually I am doing this

I would do this alongside you! I feel like it's fate

We totally should!

The episodes during the season will probably be much shorter because they won't cover as much ground. We had to cover half the bracket in each episode!
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Anyway, 6-5 complete! A final breakdown will have to wait until tomorrow since it's so late, but I'll give the stats. To go with the three from the first part, we had six more testimonies: One from Maya, three from Amara (the first as Nayna), one from Nahyuta, and the final Divination Seance with two total contradictions. The final piece of evidence is the Founder's Orb, which Apollo gives to Ga'ran to prove she can't actually channel spirits. 6-5 Middle is probably the most emotional segment in the series for me, especially now. Definitely a top 5 moment.

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for...!

6-5 investigation day 1 playtime: 2:38:39
6-5 trial day 1 playtime: 2:22:33
6-5 in-game trial day 1 time: ????
6-5 day 1 total playtime: 5:01:12
6-5 investigation day 2 playtime: 3:39:52
6-5 trial day 2 playtime: 5:22:45
6-5 in-game trial day 2 time: ????
6-5 day 2 total playtime: 9:02:37
6-5 in-game trial total: ????
6-5 total playtime: 14:03:49

6-5 - 14:03:49
E2-5 - 9:36:06
3-5 - 9:35:46
2-4 - 9:05:21
1-5 - 8:46:43
E1-5 - 8:42:23
6-3 - 8:13:50
E2-3 - 8:09:06
E2-2 - 7:29:23
5-6 - 7:21:19
5-2 - 7:13:40
5-3 - 6:50:24
4-4 - 6:38:01
5-5 - 6:16:05
3-2 - 6:02:56
E2-4 - 6:01:14
6-2 - 5:58:46
4-3 - 5:58:33
3-3 - 5:48:31
2-3 - 5:06:33
1-4 - 4:59:52
4-2 - 4:58:35
E1-4 - 4:58:26
2-2 - 4:47:40
5-4 - 4:27:31
E1-3 - 4:02:16
1-3 - 3:49:35
E2-1 - 3:36:32
6-4 - 3:21:23
E1-2 - 3:15:49
6-1 - 2:59:52
1-2 - 2:40:40
5-1 - 2:19:33
4-1 - 2:11:44
3-4 - 1:54:15
E1-1 - 1:44:51
3-1 - 1:43:09
2-1 - 1:15:57
4-0 - 1:09:44
1-1 - 0:33:35

Yes, that's right! Day 2 alone would've been a top 5 case! Total time for the credits was 10:45, if you want to clip that off the final run time.
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Not surprised at all by how much of a monster 6-5b is. 6-5a isn't really too hefty - I thought it might be over 6 hours, so I'm surprised that it's more about where I guessed 6-2 would be originally - but yeah, 6-5 day 2's trial is just a monster. Even then I did not expect 6-5b (yeah, that's what I'm calling these cases) to be that long though. Really does go to show how 6-5 basically is two separate cases. And for me, they're both easy top 10 cases on their own, too.

Hmm...Looks like I'm going to finish this off just in time for the main contest to start after the wild card matches are over.

Good timing, I guess.
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But you haven't done LvW yet!

I wasn't really planning to because Layton/AA is weird compared to the others in terms of its format, and getting stuck on puzzles would screw up the timing (as always, darn you Chalices and More Chalices).

I guess I still should though. I'd have to remember to keep track of when I'm Layton and when I'm Phoenix for the purposes of breaking down the numbers, too!
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It's really up to you. You could just time the trials - I'm a little bit interested to see if my perception that they're fairly short stacks up, or if they're longer than I think in any way. LvW doesn't feel like a game that's especially short, but it might be that the Layton segments dominate the playtime.

I think the trials are fairly short except for L-4. They're all single-day trials, too. I think L-4 overall would be a monster though because the "investigation" section (if you call it that) is pretty massive. Layton/AA does have an in-game timer, and I think I remember my time running pretty high in both playthroughs, but that also doesn't account for all the times I fell asleep.
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Timing the Layton-y parts seems totally pointless by the way since mileage can vary so wildly. I don't imagine you can extract a lot of useful info from that.

Yeah, probably not. I might time it just for the heck of it but only count the trials for the total time, but we'll see how it turns out.
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I'm gonna guess the trials themselves are about an hour per case number

That 14 hours certainly makes me feel less bad about my 70 hourish AA6 playtime...!

Are you doing the Asinine Attorneys?
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I don't think either of the Asinine Attorneys even clear the high bar set by 1-1

Personally I don't even treat them as real cases, and this is coming from someone who insists on including LvW in my rankings

14 hours Jesus Christ
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Nah, Asinine Attorney is just some parody thing that takes like 30 minutes. Not really worth doing.
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I'm trying to remember what made investigation day 2 so long. I don't remember it being that long.
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I posted all the major events! There's just a lot going on and a lot of in-depth conversations.
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All right, let's wrap up 6-5! Dhurke disappears during the recess, and there's some debate later on by the characters whether he chose to leave of his own volition or it was Amara's decision. I wonder at what point he realized he had been re-channeled by Amara and that she was at the center of the case. Maybe when Apollo showed him that pink pendant.

Back in the courtroom, the final wire gets crossed as Apollo meets Maya for the first time, and it's as delightfully awkward as it should be. "...And you are?" "Oh right, I'm Apollo Justice. It's nice to finally meet you, Ms. Fey." Then she tells him about how Phoenix told her about his loud voice and unreliable streak. Apollo is a little taken aback by that, but Phoenix says he told her that two years ago and he's come a long way since then. I gotta admit, this testimony bothered me a bit the first time I played through the game. Maya is extremely unhelpful and even sides with Ga'ran at one point. In hindsight, it makes a bit more sense because she has no idea what's even happening, and she's understandably a little miffed at Apollo for suggesting she'd abet a criminal in a cover-up. Plus, she's keeping Dhurke's secret safe for the time being. Maya's role in SoJ vexed me a little on my first playthrough, but I've come to appreciate it more and more each time. It's a pretty solid cross-examination overall though, and Phoenix, Apollo, and Maya do have some fun moments together. We also get the great reveal in Inga's full name.

Once it becomes evident Maya didn't channel Inga, Apollo has to rethink his strategy. He doesn't believe his theory that SOMEONE channeled Inga was wrong. They've just got to figure out who else could've done it, and the only possibility is Nayna. I gotta admit, when Nayna started throwing around pejoratives like "nincompoop" and calling Apollo "Horn Head," I lost it for a minute because I realized THAT's where Rayfa gets it from! It's great. Her cross-examination is fun, and then it all comes to a head when she transforms into Amara herself.

Now Amara might be the most inscrutable character in the series. I'm still not sure how she really feels or thinks about anything. Dhurke himself admits at one point that she's always been hard to read, and I believe it! I think the mystery is part of what makes her a fascinating character though, so I give her credit for it instead of deducting points from her. Not to mention, her character designs and animations are amazing. That hypnotic rotation she does with her arms (and then with her thumbs when she's nervous), and the whole "summoning woodland creatures" (and a tiger) shtick, as well as the LIGHTNING BOLT scary animation are all amazing. It's a great couple of cross-examinations because Amara is just a fun and mystifying character.

The case reaches its climax when it comes time to prove how Amara could've channeled Inga, gone to the tomb, and then vanished without ever being spotted. I still remember the exact moment when I realized Dhurke was dead: When Apollo asks, "What if there was another victim? Don't we have something that proves there was?" And I remembered those bloodstains and it was just "nowaynowaynoway" until it came time to present Dhurke's profile, which has great presentation surrounding it. After you choose his profile, it flashes back to all the foreboding things Dhurke said the previous day to hint at his fate before Apollo goes TAKE THAT.
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Everything after this for the next little while gets me really emotional, even just thinking about it and writing about it. When Apollo suggests Dhurke's body could've been hidden inside the sarcophagus, Nahyuta (who is also stunned and refuses to believe this) has Ema investigate posthaste. Those few seconds when Ema just stands there without saying a word...and then her head droops, are really tense. Apollo just begging Ema to tell him he's wrong is heartbreaking because you can just sense he's on the verge of an emotional breakdown, and then the picture comes out.

Apollo gets an outstanding breakdown animation (that they should NEVER re-use; don't lessen its effectiveness the way they did with Phoenix's 2-4 one!), and everything just grinds to a halt as "A Cornered Heart" plays and he tries to process everything and his mind races through all his memories. "I just want things to go back to the way they were" is a really powerful and poignant line to me because I know exactly how he feels. Then Apollo remembers Dhurke's words about "a truth that is difficult to accept" and how he knows he can handle it because he believes in him and he's his son, and he slowly steadies himself and gets back into it. 6-5 might start to go a little downhill after all this, but it's already cemented its status as a top tier case at this point for me.

Eventually, the truth comes out that Amara still loves Dhurke, as well as the fact that she was the one channeling in that picture, which destroys Ga'ran's alibi for the crime. Amara is about to reveal the true killer when she gets shot, which is a pretty shocking moment. Two epic cases in a row! There's a quick recess, where everyone mourns Dhurke's passing, and Rayfa has a really nice moment where she calls him "the honorable rebel" and says she would've liked to have met and talked with him. Once the trial resumes, we find out Nahyuta's trying to take the fall for the crime, which is dumb, but it leads us to the reveal that Rayfa is Dhurke and Amara's daughter, and that's why he's subjected himself to becoming Ga'ran's puppet.

However, Nahyuta won't let Apollo reveal the truth about Rayfa because of the whole "the sins of the father are visited upon his children" thing. He may have been cleared of the current case, but he's still accused of the attempted assassination of Amara. Apollo uses his father's Divination Seance to prove it was Ga'ran who did it, and Nahyuta finally removes that black thing around his hand to reveal the same dragon tattoo Dhurke has and gets his own "A dragon never yields" voice clip.

Ga'ran appears to be cornered, so she rewrites the law to allow her to execute anyone who would threaten or accuse her, and in comes the royal guard to surround Phoenix, Apollo, and Nahyuta. There's only one way out of this: To dethrone Ga'ran and override her authority. We get a great Revisualization where Apollo concludes that Ga'ran can't channel spirits and thus she has no authority to rule or make laws. He gets a great scene where he slams his fists, does the mother of all objections, blowing all the guards away, and throws the Founder's Orb to Ga'ran to prove she actually can't do it. After a weird breakdown, viva la revolution!
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After the trial, Phoenix gives Apollo the "official seal of approval," according to Maya and can't say enough good things about him. It's a really nice moment for the both of them. Nahyuta asks Apollo to stay in Khura'in, and I honestly wasn't sure if he'd actually leave or not. Ace Attorney does occasionally mix up the status quo, so it was 50/50. Getting to see Apollo's decision from Phoenix's perspective is a really nice touch. After learning he chose to stay, in his mind, Phoenix says, "I've never been prouder," and that's all that needs to be said. Apollo Justice gets the T&T type of ending, so let's hope he doesn't get the AJ type of treatment next time around...! He's probably getting out at the right time because he's somehow one of the only major characters with no blemishes on his record!

I imagine we'll see Apollo again eventually, one way or the other. I don't think this is the end for him, although he might become like Edgeworth and only show up for special occasions. I'd be fine with that though.
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All right, I started 6-6 last night, got really tired halfway through the investigation, so I had to put it down so it didn't screw up the time. Then I fell asleep on the couch for a few hours, woke up, finished it, and then went straight to bed, so I'll talk about it a little later on!
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Hey guys I'm looking for players for my AA mafia game.

To sign up just create an account at Naruto Forums and post in this thread:

https://forums.hero-academia.com/threads/ace-attorney-mafia-game.1099839/
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So I learned that my cousin has two granddaughters (yes, you read that correctly. She's 40 years old and has multiple grandchildren now) named Maya and Mia (who was just born last week). Maya is the older sister though, so I'm not sure if that's just a weird coincidence!
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coincidence or not?
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I'll need to conduct a thorough investigation to discover the truth.
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All right, let's talk about 6-6, Turnabout Time Traveler (although the transliteration of the Japanese title, "Turnabout Across Time," sounds so much cooler), where the series travels back in time to the first game, with Phoenix and Maya facing off against Edgeworth, and Larry Butz and Ema Skye as key witnesses! It also travels back in time to 3-3 in borrowing its "obfuscate the time of the crime by doing it twice" concept, which is fitting since that's the last Phoenix/Maya investigation before now! I actually like how 6-6 plays with the concept of what a "time traveler" is with its three major characters, too: Ellen thinking she literally traveled back in time, Pierce feeling like time froze for him when Selena died, and Sorin's "50 First Dates Syndrome" making him feel like he travels back to that day every time he wakes up.

As someone who actually likes Larry Butz, I was fine with him showing back up again. He's gotta be the non-legal-profession character who appears in the most games, right? He's only not in AJ and DD. I like his new "finger point and smirk" animation, and I love seeing his old animations with the sunglasses, fake mustache, and bubble pipe, especially his thinking one where he blows a bubble up and down the whole time. Looks like he was actually able to release "Franzy's Whiplash Splash" (that'll always be the title to me! Get "Franzy's Whippity-Whip Trip" outta here!) to some success, and now Larry's got a new picture book, featuring the latest Pokemon, Cupiglet! When Phoenix calls him a one-hit wonder, Larry shoots back with, "Hey, I'll have you know my latest book was released to moderate acclaim and my new character is mildly popular with women ages 18-25!" So good. Larry claiming he decided to bluff like Phoenix by telling the police he had a bomb was great, too, as well as his reaction if you show him your attorney's badge.

I'm not a huge fan of Ellen, although I can't really put my finger on why. I like her animations, despite how long they run (for the record, Ellen's "wipe her tears and reapply all her makeup" animation takes a solid 12 seconds, and Sorin's paper airplane animation takes 10 seconds). She's likable enough, but she's nothing special. She doesn't play a big role in the case or the crime, and that might hurt her a bit. Ellen's role in 6-6 is basically to get played like a fiddle by Pierce's cover-up and pine for Sorin.

Maya and Edgeworth show up together at the scene of the crime ("When did you become Maya's chauffeur, Edgeworth?"), and I'm all pumped up and ready to go! Phoenix, Maya, and Edgeworth all talk about marriage and romance for a while, and I realize that, while AA does occasionally mix up the status quo, the one thing they don't change is everyone's relationship status! Seriously, has any character been single when first introduced and gotten married later? I don't think so. Keeping the major characters single is serious business, apparently!

First thing I had to do was go back to the office and investigate with Maya around, and it's totally worth it! Maya is the only person who recognized that the hoop in the office is a levitating ring and not a hula hoop! They reminisce about good times with Charley, and Maya calls the piano a "glorified shelf" if no one ever plays it. Phoenix refers to "the hotel next door" complaining about the noise from the piano, so maybe the WAA still is in the same place as the office in the OT! Doesn't necessarily mean it's the Gatewater, of course, but it could be!
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LeonhartFour posted...

Seriously, has any character been single when first introduced and gotten married later? I don't think so.

If you count any characters in the series, there's Sorin and Ellen. I don't think there are any major characters that tied the knot, though.
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sure they're technically not married because they didn't sign the marriage license yet but they already had the ceremony man
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But it's not final until after their third wedding ceremony. I actually somehow never noticed that they were already married. The case brings up how the Sprockets want to call off the wedding as if if hasn't already happened and the case ends with a wedding ceremony. But you are right that they technically already got married twice before Phoenix ever meets them.
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Well, Pierce says they can annul the marriage because the license was never signed, but they technically got married twice already before the case begins...!
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Investigating with Maya is great as always, of course. 6-6 is worth the price of admission for this alone! I don't care what anyone says! Maya breaks stuff, tries to cover Phoenix in fog from the fog machine, and corrects him when he tries to joke that the Sprockets get their milk from the other half of the cow that's behind the wall in their mansion. "That's what I get for trying to play along," indeed. They also disagree over whether "Rainy the Rainbull" is a good name for a mascot. Maya likes it and thinks it's memorable, but Phoenix thinks it's only memorable for the badness of the pun (and I have to agree! Stop putting bad puns in DLC cases...!). We don't really get any clarity on the case though because the pieces of evidence don't clearly connect to each other.

Larry is still the Butz, but he doesn't put up nearly as much of a fight with his Psyche-Locks this time around! I guess he's mellowed with age a bit! Edgeworth also claims he's mellowed with age a bit. Phoenix questions how self-aware he is, but I actually agree with Edgeworth there! He certainly doesn't qualify as "mellow" compared to most people, but compared to OT Edgeworth? Absolutely!

I guess I should talk about Sorin and Pierce a bit, too, but they don't do much here. Sorin is very standoffish and comes across as rather callous about Ellen. It made me suspicious of him for a while! I do really like one line he has in the investigation day because it's one of those "brilliant in hindsight" moments. "Time travelers really do exist, you know. But you wouldn't understand." 5-6 kinda messed up my perceptions of Pierce because I'd have thought he was the killer on day 1, but I kept waiting for them to swerve me! I spent all of day 2 waiting for some other suspect to show up, and even clung to the notion that Sorin did it (although it'd have gone against nearly all AA conventions for him to be the killer), but alas!

This is definitely a fast-paced case for AA6 though! It might end up being the shortest full-length case at the rate it's going, even shorter than 6-2! It'll be close, I think!
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Oh whoa, 6-6 day 1 complete! That was the fastest individual segment in an AA game in quite a while! Four testimonies: Two by Ema and two by Larry. Sorin shows a glimpse of love for Ellen before the trial starts by telling her to come home soon because he's lost without her. It gives Phoenix (and me) a glimmer of hope for their relationship.

My word, the trash talking in this case is glorious. Everyone gets in on the act! First of all, I'm kind of confused why Ema takes Edgeworth's side in this case. I get that he's her boss and a role model in her profession, but Phoenix, you know, saved her and her sister from false convictions! I figured that might take precedence a bit! But Ema decides to go full Gumshoe here because, in addition to fangirling over Edgeworth, she makes completely obvious mistakes in her testimonies. "I'd like to apologize in advance...for embarrassing you in front of your idol." Seriously, more trash talking Phoenix, please! He's so good at it!

Phoenix, Edgeworth, and even the Judge get in an argument over flowers! Edgeworth tries to argue that the type of flower found in the lantern doesn't matter, but the Judge insists it does because he gave some of those flowers to his wife long ago and he has the power of love behind his opinions! Phoenix says Edgeworth doesn't bother learning the names of flowers because he has no one to give them to, prompting Edgeworth to fire back with, "This from the man who only knows the names of three kinds of flowers!"

Then Larry takes the stand with his "Nick is a Jerk Face!" testimony, which is similar to Moe's first testimony in 2-3...except you actually have to cross-examine it, which is fantastic. You can accuse Larry of being the killer if you want, but I wouldn't do that, because I'm like Phoenix and I know better. He might be a pathetic loser and troublemaker, but he's not a killer. Unfortunately, he busts out the time travel theory despite Phoenix trying to keep it hush-hush. "Has Larry developed some sort of mental disability since the last time I saw him, Mr. Wright?" "Can you please translate this man's gibberish so that we can all understand?" Of course, Phoenix has to run with it, with help from another one of Larry's secret photos he didn't tell anyone about. Phoenix's reaction to that picture is great. "Larry, I can't believe you--Actually, nevermind. Good job!"

Afterward, Edgeworth says, "I now have definitive proof that you are no more intelligent than Larry" and decries time travel as impossible. Maya says Edgeworth probably has a tough time with sci-fi movies, and he'd probably be saying "That'd never happen" every few minutes, so she tells him not to go on any movie dates in the future. Phoenix eventually comes to the conclusion that the wedding reception was simply held twice with no time travel shenanigans, and Pierce applauds him for his impressive deductions. He confesses to the huge cover-up operation, and that's enough to warrant a second investigation day. Short, but sweet!
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I guess everyone's hunched over their brackets trying to finalize it before the contest starts tomorrow
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nah just had a busy weekend and now i'm behind on 6-5 and unsure if i've missed my window to comment on it
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it's never too late

in fact I'll go back and comment on something you said several days ago to prove it

SeabassDebeste posted...

This has to be one of the most positive posts I've made in your playthrough post-3-2!

I seem to recall a lot of unconditional praise for 4-2 for reasons that are still beyond me

I'm still not sure it's not actually your favorite case
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i do like 4-2! it's not my favorite case, but it's in contention for my favorite of AA4 for sure.

people generally talk more when contradictory and many people are much down-er on 4-2 than i am!
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4-2 is the definitive AJ case and I don't mean that in a good way.
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It's in contention for my favorite AA4 case only because I don't like any of them all that much

AJ is the only game that has multiple cases in my bottom tier, and my bottom tier only has three cases in it...!
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4-2 is, uh,

Better than 4-3 I guess
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So I had this random thought cross my mind as I was playing through 6-6 since I was noticing how long the "time and place" text was taking to fill the screen because the case takes place in September. It got me wondering which months have the most cases and if there are any months that have never had a case, so I decided to look it up.

January (2) - 3-3, DGS-2
February (5) - 1-5, 3-4, 3-5, DGS-3, DGS-4
March (7) - 2-4, E1-1, E1-2, E1-3, E1-5, E2-1, E2-2
April (10) - 3-1, 4-1, 4-0, 5-2, 6-1, 6-2, E2-3 (present), E2-4, E2-5, DGS-5
May (3) - 6-3, 6-4, 6-5
June (2) - 2-2, 4-2
July (2) - 4-3, 5-6
August (1) - 1-1
September (4) - 1-2, 2-1, 6-6, E1-4
October (4) - 1-3, 3-2, 4-4, 5-3
November (1) - DGS-1
December (6) - 1-4, 2-3, 5-1, 5-4, 5-5, E2-3 (past)

AAI gives March and April the win here. December wins if we're only counting the main series. November is totally left out if you don't count DGS, and August hasn't shown back up since the first case!
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I would have guessed December was the winning month but I guess AAI and AAI2 largely taking place within the span of a couple of weeks skews the results like crazy

Actually, April still wins even with just the main series if we include 4-0. It gets three different intro cases!
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we should give each month only one entry if they're cases that are linked together like 5-1/5-4/5-5, or the AAI cases!
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