Poll of the Day > so GOP plans to get rid of obamacare

(+) Yeah! (+)

Not that I like Obamacare but GOP doesn't have a plan to make shure that 20million+ people don't lose their plan once the new system is in place. And I don't like the plan GOP is making. How about just letting Obamacare explode instead.
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Y'all need a single payer system... not an insurance company felation.
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Tardis2015 posted...

20million+ people don't lose their plan once the new system is in place.

most misleading fucking statistic ever. most of those ppl wouldn't have plans if shit-tier obamacare didn't force them to.

Lokarin posted...

Y'all need a single payer system... not an insurance company felation.

That, insurance companies should be cut off entirely, the people don't owe these scumbag piggybackers.
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Tardis2015 posted...

but GOP doesn't have a plan to make shure that 20million+ people don't lose their plan once the new system is in place.

First off, the 20m number is bullshit. Second, lower-priced healthcare is more affordable so people would be able to buy it legit. Third, it's not so much "lose" it in many cases as people who wanted to opt out of it won't be penalized -- think of it like if the government forced you to pay for Comcast. Fourth, complaining about people losing something they were getting for free at taxpayer expense doesn't exactly hit me right here.

If they want free healthcare, let's give them brochures on how to sneak into Canada... although that wouldn't work because, unlike the US, Canada actually enforces immigration policy.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Lokarin posted...

Y'all need a single payer system... not an insurance company felation.

That, insurance companies should be cut off entirely, the people don't owe these scumbag piggybackers.

And, while we're at it, let's just nationalize the banks, nationalize the farms, nationalize the grocers, nationalize retailers, nationalize auto insurances, nationalize the home industry, etc.
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Zeus posted...

Third, it's not so much "lose" it in many cases as people who wanted to opt out of it won't be penalized

here's the thing though, for the people who still couldn't afford health care, they don't get penalized for it.

when you do your taxes, if you claim it wasn't affordable for the entire year, so you never had it, the penalty is waived.
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HellHole_ posted...

Zeus posted...

Third, it's not so much "lose" it in many cases as people who wanted to opt out of it won't be penalized

here's the thing though, for the people who still couldn't afford health care, they don't get penalized for it.

when you do your taxes, if you claim it wasn't affordable for the entire year, so you never had it, the penalty is waived.

Source for this exemption? And bearing in mind that affordable has many connotations and, even if it was affordable on paper, some people might still rather spend their money in other ways (such investing rather than putting into premiums)
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All I know is that it will be significantly cheaper for me.

Sign me the fuck up fam.
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Zeus posted...

Source for this exemption? And bearing in mind that affordable has many connotations and, even if it was affordable on paper, some people might still rather spend their money in other ways (such investing rather than putting into premiums)

i don't have a source because i never bothered to look it up.

it's just what's happened the past several years for a couple people i do taxes for that don't have health insurance.
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HellHole_ posted...

Zeus posted...

Source for this exemption? And bearing in mind that affordable has many connotations and, even if it was affordable on paper, some people might still rather spend their money in other ways (such investing rather than putting into premiums)

i don't have a source because i never bothered to look it up.

it's just what's happened the past several years for a couple people i do taxes for that don't have health insurance.

I'll confirm there's an exemption, but the thing is it's income based. Make over that threshold and you're penalized for the entire year, regardless of circumstance. I was only employed 7/12 months last year and got penalized for every month, including those I was unemployed, because I made over the threshold for the entire year. Maybe there's a way to file an appeal but I can't imagine it's easy, ignoring really good chance of getting audited as a result.

I really hate claims of "X will lose insurance!" because they don't seem to get how bad these plans can be. Plans with fucking $6000 deductibles are not worth having. Give me a breakdown of what what kind of plans these people are losing by percentage, because if a good portion are on minimum requirement plans, they're better off without (and this doesn't factor what percentage may be on it simply to avoid the penalty).
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Smarkil posted...

All I know is that it will be significantly cheaper for me.

Sign me the fuck up fam.

"Fuck you, got mine" is the reason we can't have nice things.
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Lightning Bolt posted...

"Fuck you, got mine" is the reason we can't have nice things.

So they're allowed to do it but I'm not?
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KaptainKiro posted...

Tardis2015 posted...

20million+ people don't lose their plan once the new system is in place.

most misleading fucking statistic ever. most of those ppl wouldn't have plans if shit-tier obamacare didn't force them to.

They still have insurance though, and would lose it under this new plan. Not sure how that's misleading.

First off, the 20m number is bullshit. Second, lower-priced healthcare is more affordable so people would be able to buy it legit. Third, it's not so much "lose" it in many cases as people who wanted to opt out of it won't be penalized -- think of it like if the government forced you to pay for Comcast. Fourth, complaining about people losing something they were getting for free at taxpayer expense doesn't exactly hit me right here.

If they want free healthcare, let's give them brochures on how to sneak into Canada... although that wouldn't work because, unlike the US, Canada actually enforces immigration policy.

You only claim it's misleading because you're pissed it was revealed that people would lose their insurance.

Are you like Paul Ryan, in that when he was in college he dreamed about one day taking away people's health care? Because he admitted that in an interview.


Smarkil posted...

All I know is that it will be significantly cheaper for me.

Sign me the fuck up fam.

It probably won't be.
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What is "it"? And who are "they"?
Is this a conspiracy?
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Lightning Bolt posted...

What is "it"? And who are "they"?
Is this a conspiracy?

They're allowed to make selfish demands of other people, but I'm not allowed to.

The difference of course being that I earned my money.
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Smarkil posted...

Lightning Bolt posted...

What is "it"? And who are "they"?
Is this a conspiracy?

They're allowed to make selfish demands of other people, but I'm not allowed to.

The difference of course being that I earned my money.

You must not know how insurance works. It's ok, most people are dumber than shit as are our politicians.
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Erik_P posted...

You must not know how insurance works. It's ok, most people are dumber than shit as are our politicians.

Hi Erik
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Zeus posted...

And, while we're at it, let's just nationalize the banks, nationalize the farms, nationalize the grocers, nationalize retailers, nationalize auto insurances, nationalize the home industry, etc.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Government should have its foot in every industry to work as a benchmark. Healthcare is a necessity so should be available to everybody as necessary, then health insurers can cover unnecessary medical treatment as wanted.
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Smarkil posted...

Erik_P posted...

You must not know how insurance works. It's ok, most people are dumber than shit as are our politicians.

Hi Erik

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/insurance.asp

The company pools clients' risks to make payments more affordable for the insured

That's every single goddamn insurance that exists. You aren't just paying for others with health insurance. Now you know. You can say you learned something for a change.
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Erik_P posted...

That's every single goddamn insurance that exists. You aren't just paying for others with health insurance. Now you know. You can say you learned something for a change.

How have you been doing lately? We never get a chance to talk anymore man. Hows the job?
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Lightning Bolt posted...

Smarkil posted...

All I know is that it will be significantly cheaper for me.

Sign me the fuck up fam.

"Fuck you, got mine" is the reason we can't have nice things.

People can work to make money to buy themselves nice things instead of sitting around and waiting for somebody to hand it to them.

Erik_P posted...

You only claim it's misleading because you're pissed it was revealed that people would lose their insurance.

It's not just a matter of it being misleading (although it also is misleading), the statistic is bullshit. More importantly, everybody understood that no matter what plan replaced a free healthcare plan, people who were getting it for free were going to lose it. But again, these are people who should have been paying for it in the first place.

Erik_P posted...

Are you like Paul Ryan, in that when he was in college he dreamed about one day taking away people's health care? Because he admitted that in an interview.

You mean like how Obama took away affordable plans and tried to stick people with pricier versions containing coverage they didn't actually need or want? So you could lose your doctor AND have the privilege of being penalized for no longer being able to afford healthcare?

Erik_P posted...

It probably won't be.

It almost assuredly will be. Once you're no longer forced to subsidize higher risk risks, your pool's premiums decrease.

Erik_P posted...

You must not know how insurance works. It's ok, most people are dumber than shit as are our politicians.

The irony being that Erik doesn't understand why being forced to insure higher risk and higher cost patients drives up prices for everybody else.
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You mean like how Obama took away affordable plans and tried to stick people with pricier versions containing coverage they didn't actually need or want? So you could lose your doctor AND have the privilege of being penalized for no longer being able to afford healthcare?

"Bbbut Obama!"

Sorry, if you can't voice your opinion without a "what about" then just don't say shit because your argument isn't strong enough to stand on its own.
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They're not getting rid of Obamacare at all. Just beating it with hammer and moving bits around, all just to be able to slap a "Trumpcare!" sticker on it.

The rest of the developed world can't be wrong: America's health care system is stupid.
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Zeus posted...

And, while we're at it, let's just nationalize the banks, nationalize the farms, nationalize the grocers, nationalize retailers, nationalize auto insurances, nationalize the home industry, etc.

If you have convincing reasons for doing things then you should probably do it. Rather than saying nationalizing A means we should necessarily nationalize B-Z instead we should say, what are the advantages of nationalized B-Z on a service by service basis and if we find that the pros of doing it outweigh the cons than we should. Nationalizing healthcare doesn't necessarily imply that we should nationalize the rest of those things. They're totally unrelated. In short your borderline slippery slope point is bad.

The new GOP plan considers rape and pregnancy both as pre-existing conditions. . .
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Mead posted...

The new GOP plan considers rape and pregnancy both as pre-existing conditions. . .

If you rotate the capital "P" it becomes a lower case "d" and spells "GOd". It's all part of His plan. Fuck!
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Zeus posted...

And, while we're at it, let's just nationalize the banks, nationalize the farms, nationalize the grocers, nationalize retailers, nationalize auto insurances, nationalize the home industry, etc.

We finally agree on something
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Zeus posted...

The irony being that Erik doesn't understand why being forced to insure higher risk and higher cost patients drives up prices for everybody else.

That's a secondary consideration as medical costs are so high now in the US because suppliers raise their prices freely and insurers have no reason to fight it as they can pass on any cost with whatever premium suits them. Customers don't have direct access and government refuses to mediate so costs continue to spiral.
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Good.

I'm tired of paying extra so people like ico can go to a doctor.
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Pretty scary that the US considers health care a privilege rather than a right. Although I think it has more to do with insurance companies spending millions of dollars to lobby and buy out your elected representatives to pass legislature in their favour, rather than the favour of the people.
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SmokeMassTree posted...

Good.

I'm tired of paying extra so people like ico can go to a doctor.

Another person who doesn't understand how insurance works.
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Mead posted...

Lol

Just get rid of mandatory insurance with a penalty for crying out loud

I don't get sick, I don't get a shit about other people who do so let them take care of themselves with their own fucking money.

If I get sick or hurt and don't have insurance? Fuck it, that's my fault and I deserve to be thrown out of the hospital on my ass or pay tons of money out of pocket. I'll take my chances.
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Most people don't understand how badly the government has rigged health insurance over the years. It's not a free market. It's a controlled market and an example of Corporatism aka fascism. For example I should be able to shop for any insurance plan in any state, but legally you can't. That limits your options. Also good luck trying to set up a new company to compete with market share because the regulations are so tough only someone with huge financial backing can enter the market. This is not a free market.

Reducing things to "it's right not a privilege" is a weak? I think most Americans want a fair system that provides help for everyone. If you choose to smoke a pack a day for 20 years and choose to drink yourself to death isn't that your right too? Many of these issues aren't as cut and dry as people make them out to be. Is it fair for tax payers to pay for every persons bone headed screw up? Lets say you break your arm because you think it would be fun try and do a hand stand on a skate board. Yes that person certainly needs to have access to get help but why does why should a tax payer be forced to cover for their stupid action?

ReggieTheReckless posted...

Just get rid of mandatory insurance with a penalty for crying out loud

I don't get sick, I don't get a shit about other people who do so let them take care of themselves with their own fucking money.

If I get sick or hurt and don't have insurance? Fuck it, that's my fault and I deserve to be thrown out of the hospital on my ass or pay tons of money out of pocket. I'll take my chances.

That's what the majority of this purported 24 million 'losing' insurance is coming from. Them opting out of having insurance rather than being mandated. The CBO report that everyone cites for the numbers says that specifically.
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Any asshole that thinks 30 cents out of his wallet is more important than someone else's life is a fucking scumbag.

Remember when Zeus claimed he was liberal, guys? Lol
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When you can't afford food and housing if you try to pay for insurance, prefacing losing insurance with quotation marks is facetious at best.
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wildstrike1516 posted...

why should a tax payer be forced to cover for their stupid action?

Because that taxpayer is paying like a hundredth of a cent for that broken arm, which is less than negligible, and in exchange for that perceived waste, hundreds of thousands of arms that were broken through more legitimate accidents are covered at the same rate, allowing all of those people to get back to work and live healthy, productive lives instead of having to go on disability because they couldn't get their broken arms treated.

The oppositions to a nationalized health care system are almost invariably extremely narrow-minded and short-sighted. Look at broad statistics, not individual hypothetical situations that you don't like the sound of.
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Zangrief posted...

Any asshole that thinks 30 cents out of his wallet is more important than someone else's life is a fucking scumbag.

So how much of your expendable income do you donate to charity again? How many times have you skipped over those starving children in Africa commercials and done nothing for them?

After all, just 20 cents a day can feed a child in Africa.

Get off your high horse. You're just as selfish as everyone else, you evidently just prefer the government to force you to be charitable.
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Smarkil posted...

Zangrief posted...

Any asshole that thinks 30 cents out of his wallet is more important than someone else's life is a fucking scumbag.

So how much of your expendable income do you donate to charity again? How many times have you skipped over those starving children in Africa commercials and done nothing for them?

After all, just 20 cents a day can feed a child in Africa.

Get off your high horse. You're just as selfish as everyone else, you evidently just prefer the government to force you to be charitable.

You're paying car insurance based on how other people drive. I don't see you crying about that.
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Erik_P posted...

You're paying car insurance based on how other people drive. I don't see you crying about that.

Guess what? I have a problem with government enforced car insurance too.

But also guess what? I can opt not to have car insurance by not having a car.
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All insurance is bullshit.
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Smarkil posted...

Guess what? I have a problem with government enforced car insurance too.

That's a pretty reasonable requirement, actually. It makes sure other people on the road don't have to pay if you screw up. Given that you are not perfect and infallible, that's always a possibility. Even on the off chance you actually are, you're still going to want all the other people on the road that aren't to be able to pay for any of their screw-ups that affect you, and given that there's really no way to determine who's actually never going to do anything wrong, a blanket requirement is the best way to ensure that coverage.
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rynobot_sad posted...

All insurance is bullshit.

Insurance is there so you don't have to pay thousands in medical bills should you be injured due to someone else's negligence.
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I'm still concern the American Heritage Care Act is gonna base insurance credit on a person's age instead of age and income. Not everyone at 60+ years old is well off.

rynobot_sad posted...

All insurance is bullshit.

Do you have enough money saved up to cover your arse if anything goes wrong with your health, car, etc? I am not suggesting insurances are perfect but for some folks they don't have this backup money. The annual premium they pay might be far cheaper than whatever bill they will be hit with if shit hits the fan.
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Smarkil posted...

Zangrief posted...

Any asshole that thinks 30 cents out of his wallet is more important than someone else's life is a fucking scumbag.

So how much of your expendable income do you donate to charity again? How many times have you skipped over those starving children in Africa commercials and done nothing for them?

After all, just 20 cents a day can feed a child in Africa.

Get off your high horse. You're just as selfish as everyone else, you evidently just prefer the government to force you to be charitable.

I donate over 10% of my income per year to charities. Not all of them US based. So stick that presumption up your ass.

Look, I think every able bodies person (and even some with disabilities who can work phone jobs etc) should work and contribute, but I also think any civilized nation should ensure it's citizens have access to free health care, and free education (as long as grades are maintained).

Wait you say, that would cost too much, why should we support those who do not work etc?


First off, unless you are draconian, free health care already exists, it just doesn't happen until emergency levels, and worse, it clutters up the emergency wards with people who could have been treated in a less time sensative way (my wife basically died because the only hospital with dialysis was so full with flu paitents she couldn't be admitted).

Free health care just does a few things. It takes the profit out of the equation, which means saving a freaking ton of money over all more then likely, even for the taxpayers. It prevents tons of people from using emergency as their primary doctor, and it drastically prevents many people from getting sick due to not being seen until it's too late or much worse.

As far as education, it's free, but only the actual classes are free, you still need to have somewhere to live, food to eat, and buy your books etc. This would prevent student loans which are twice as much as the cost of college (A big reason there is so much student loan debt in this country), and would probably REDUCE the loss we are suffering (at lest for the tax payers) due to student loans not being paid back etc. It would also remove the whole for profit part of education again, making it about actually improving lives, not taking advantage of them. It would streamline having free education available online as well etc.

I don't think Obamacare is great or anywhere near perfect, but I'm guessing any new plan is going to be even worse and screw more people over, or ensure that more people rely on emergency rooms (while even more hospitals are probably closed).

Why in a system that makes such huge profits are so many hospitals shutting down due to not getting enough donations or the costs being too high (And being unable to find someone to buy the hospital etc). In the bay area where I moved from almost half of the hospitals have closed. In Olympia there are just 2 freaking hospitals, with only one having dialysis, that is just insane.

We need more hospitals, not less, and a way to ensure most people can be seen without having to actually use them (Especially the emergency room). I'm all for goverment staying out of our lives as much as possible, but some things are too important.
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