Board 8 > Mercenaries Draft, Week 0 Results: I think I've played this song before...

(+) Yeah! (+)

The melody is different, but I hear the drums of war.

The numbers have been rolled. The higher seeds for week 1 matches are as follows, with higher seeds' names bolded:

MEWTWO's Ms. Ellie and the Boys vs. Luis' Hallelujah Essaim
GOD's Fuck With Us! vs. Skyridge's Maverick Hunters
DEATHCHICKEN's General Bub's Spiritual Hit Squad vs. Eddv's Mobile Suit Knuckles
TIROFOG's Ride the Lightning vs. Lopen's Machina Maw

BOKO's Boko Reunited vs. Rocket's Might Controls Everything
GRAVY's Bossman Coolguy's Kingpins vs. Eaed's Suplex Through Time, Bitch!
Johnbobb's Pink Floyd's "The Kirb" vs. CORRIK's Corrik's Sardaukar
Scare's Team Americs vs. TOM's Get N or Get Out!

Those with capitalized names have a +3GP bonus to their match's tier bid. Players, PM your tier bids to me or Trdl. You have 12 hours, starting now!
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Bump
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Tag
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So we can use Results abilities now?
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redrocket_pub posted...

So we can use Results abilities now?

No, for all intents and purposes you bought all your mercs Week 0. This is just for tier bids so we have a separate topic for it.
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Mad respect for the Megas reference.
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How the hell does Discord work

I hate this stupid piece of shit app
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Speaking of! For anyone else who hasn't hopped onto the mercs discord channel yet, here's how it works:

-Click this invite link: https://discord.gg/HZQ6VRK
-Go to any other channel on the b8 server.
-Write $rank mercs.
-You're in!

Took a little bit but we have the whole processs straightened out now. See you there!
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@Johnbobb

Can you come on discord and chat with me?
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Are we gonna get a page like mercs with the teams and links to mercs on the team for easy perusal.
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Where is results
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Ask and ye shall receive!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mNmaaTqE7rbcwQeiCYO9opjbohK2I_152dK5vOXkpe0/edit#

Barebones ATM, but you can fill in your teams here! If you want any extra standardized features let me know and I'll add them in.
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https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/75322636

Place your power rankingz here btw
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purple and green team colors btw
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Opponents per week, so nobody forgets - this will go on the teams doc as well.

Group 1

Week 1
Mewtwo vs. Luis
IGCD vs. Skyridge
DC vs. Eddv
Tirofog vs. Lopen

Week 2
Mewtwo vs. Skyridge
IGCD vs. Eddv
DC vs. Lopen
Tirofog vs. Luis

Week 3
Mewtwo vs. Eddv
IGCD vs. Lopen
DC vs. Luis
Tirofog vs. Skyridge

Week 4
Mewtwo vs. Lopen
IGCD vs. Luis
DC vs. Skyridge
Tirofog vs. Eddv

Week 5
Mewtwo vs. Tirofog
IGCD vs. DC
Luis vs. Lopen
Skyridge vs. Eddv

Week 6
Mewtwo vs. DC
IGCD vs. Tirofog
Luis vs. Eddv
Skyridge vs. Lopen

Week 7
Mewtwo vs. IGCD
DC vs. Tirofog
Luis vs. Skyridge
Eddv Vs. Lopen



Group 2

Week 1
Boko vs Rocket
Gravy vs Eaed
Johnbobb vs Corrik
Scare vs Tombolo

Week 2
Boko vs Eaed
Gravy vs Corrik
Johnbobb vs Tom
Scare vs Rocket

Week 3
Boko vs Corrik
Gravy vs Tom
Johnbobb vs Rocket
Scare vs Eaed

Week 4
Boko vs Tom
Gravy vs Rocket
Johnbobb vs Eaed
Scare vs Corrik

Week 5
Boko vs Scare
Gravy vs Johnbobb
Rocket vs Tom
Eaed vs Corrik

Week 6
Boko vs Johnbobb
Gravy vs Scare
Rocket vs Corrik
Eaed vs Tom

Week 7
Boko vs Gravy
Johnbobb vs Scare
Rocket vs Eaed
Corrik vs Tom
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I keep forgetting I'm actually a part of this now.

It's preemptive memory repression.
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I think you should make clear how the tier bidding works here so people don't forget how it works.
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yeah actually how does it work again
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Tag 2
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Lopen posted...

I think you should make clear how the tier bidding works here so people don't forget how it works.

Sure, why not?

-You have until 9 AM EST tomorrow (that is, Monday 9 AM EST) to submit a GP bid to select which tier the week's battle will take place in. Bids may be PM'd to either admin (me or trdl), or submitted through Discord or IRC.
-Higher seeds (indicated in the first post) gain a +3 GP bonus to the tier bid. They can also choose whether to attack or defend, after bids have been revealed.
-GP bid on tiers is NOT refunded if your bid doesn't win. If you bid 10 GP and a bid of 11 outbids you, you lose that money!
-Unless you indicate otherwise, we will assume your bid is how much GP you're actually spending (this matters for higher seeds, because of the bid bonus - if you say 'bid 8 GP on low tier' as a higher seed, your final bid will be worth 11 GP, and you'll spend 8 GP on the bid, win or lose).
-Just to clarify, you have 20 GP to spend right now. This isn't just for bids! You'll also use it for terrains and buying down mercs to fight in tiers below their own!
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

GP bid on tiers is NOT refunded if your bid doesn't win. If you bid 10 GP and a bid of 11 outbids you, you lose that money!

I feel like if you're going to do this the lower seed should only need to pay what they bid -3 if they lose the bid
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Lopen posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

GP bid on tiers is NOT refunded if your bid doesn't win. If you bid 10 GP and a bid of 11 outbids you, you lose that money!

I feel like if you're going to do this the lower seed should only need to pay what they bid -3 if they lose the bid

As in, the higher seed gets a higher bid by default, but the lower seed can wager their money more freely because there's less punishment for losing?

Hmm. It's probably a bit late to implement changes (the bidding process is already live after all), but that's certainly an interesting idea. I'll write that one down - I don't think we'll use it now, but if draft mercs works out alright, it's very much worth considering for a potential future game.
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Well it's more like I feel irritated that say if I bid 4 gp and Tiro bids 2 that he loses 2 gp and I lose 4 gp and he still gets the tier bid. Like it kinda severely deters bidding as the lower seed imo.
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Lopen posted...

Well it's more like I feel irritated that say if I bid 4 gp and Tiro bids 2 that he loses 2 gp and I lose 4 gp and he still gets the tier bid. Like it kinda severely deters bidding as the lower seed imo.

True. it wouldn't be so irritating to bid say, 5 GP and win because then you got what you wanted, but the high seed has many advantages ATM (+3 to bid, win on ties, and pick attacker/defender). The question is if it's fair to implement a change while bidding is in progress - it kinda alters the sorts of bids people are going to make, after all, and not everybody is still awake like they knew to be for the start of Results. It's a bit of an unfair advantage that isn't even game related, and it's sort of unprofessional to do these kinds of hotfix rule patches at such a time. Thoughts, everyone?
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I really like Lopen's proposed changes, but for the sake of fairness since some people may have already gone to bed, not thinking they need to check in by 9 am have them apply starting week 2.
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Eddv posted...

I really like Lopen's proposed changes, but for the sake of fairness since some people may have already gone to bed, not thinking they need to check in by 9 am have them apply starting week 2.

This might be a reasonable compromise. Any changes done today would be a huge punishment to people who sent their bids in early and went to sleep, but week 2 is, well, a week away. There's time to discuss this matter without urgency if so.
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So if we want to change our bid now, can we or can we not?

When were those rules even posted anyway and why did no one make this observation they were stupid when they were anyway.

My vote is that we just delay the bid half a day to a day rather than keep these degenerate tier bidding rules as they are-- or just implement round 2 if necessary. I do think it's easy to keep a weekly schedule going though because a lot of the phases are stripped down. No declaration, no bidding in peace, etc etc.
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i will admit i have only read rules on a need to know basis
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Skyridge87 posted...

So if we want to change our bid now, can we or can we not?

You can. But see below please.

Lopen posted...

When were those rules even posted anyway and why did no one make this observation they were stupid when they were anyway.

My vote is that we just delay the bid half a day to a day rather than keep these degenerate tier bidding rules as they are-- or just implement round 2 if necessary. I do think it's easy to keep a weekly schedule going though because a lot of the phases are stripped down. No declaration, no bidding in peace, etc etc.

So something like delay peace a day, shorten wartime a day to compensate, and put a better system in place?

...Hmm. I've heard lots of outcry from pretty much all the players about the tier bidding system (off the top of my head: Tiro, Corrik, Eddv, Lopen, Boko have all expressed displeasure at minimum - that's three higher seeds and two lower ones, for reference), which tells me something about it isn't quite right. Given that, and given the fact I'd rather give everyone an enjoyable game than a terrible one and I myself am not 100% convinced that the system is good as is, here's what we'll do.

OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Peacetime is being delayed by a day. Tier bidding is being extended by a day also, as we discuss potential changes to the tier bidding system. If you're a player, please vote on one of the options below, in bold.

So, as seen in this topic, the discord chat AND the draft topic itself, people are unhappy with the tier bidding system, to a degree or another. Nobody really seems mad about the higher seed getting bonuses, but the lower seed facing a triple disadvantage (less chances of winning the bid, having to be defender/attacker based on whatever the higher seed thinks is better for themselves, losing ties) feels really bad, especially since it's RNG that is going to hand people these advantages most of the time, until teams start racking up wins. To that end, I want to institute a poll and I invite every player to vote on it. Should we:

A) Maintain the tier bidding system as is?
B) Implement Lopen's proposed 'lower seed refund' to make it less punishing for the lower seed to try and control the tier, but apply it starting from next week?
C) Implement Lopen's proposed 'lower seed refund' this very week, and allow players to resubmit bids until 9 AM EST on Tuesday?
D) Other option (specify what's on your mind if so)?

We have a little bit of leeway to discuss this properly, and I want people to have fun instead of feeling like the game mechanics are conspiring them to lose, or that they got randomed out. So let me hear your thoughts. What do you prefer?
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Votes C imo
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C is the best solution - especially since god willing this wartime wont have a million freezes for rulings
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Option C

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I don't like option C.

Even though I won the RNG, I think losing that RNG really sucks. I get to have a +3 tier bid bonus AND be the attacker or defender (so, functionally, the attacker)? That seems like a huge advantage based on a coinflip. Maybe the team that isn't attacker/defender should get the tier bid bonus?

I mean, it's great for me that I get these cool bonuses!!

I think the entire tier bidding process should be overhauled. I also think that teams that lose the bid should keep their money. That way, if you lose a couple tier bids in a row, you should theoretically at least have more money to start winning some if you really want to. Everything about losing the tier bid just really sucks for the person who lost that RNG.

Another thing you can do is have us bid on:

1) Tier
2) Attacker/defender

so maybe if I win the, uh, "wartime bid" I get to choose either if I want tier OR attacker/defender. At least for the round robin, maybe?

Just spit ballin' here.
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Disagree. If you lose a bid you should be refunded in full. A losing bid is a losing bid and should be treated as so.
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Corrik posted...

Disagree. If you lose a bid you should be refunded in full. A losing bid is a losing bid and should be treated as so.

+1
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So (most) everyone agrees the loser shouldn't lose their money at least?

Corrik posted...

Disagree. If you lose a bid you should be refunded in full. A losing bid is a losing bid and should be treated as so.

It wasn't like that in the playoffs and for good reason. It makes high tier disproportionately powerful if you can just all-in on tiers - it's effectively like doing multiple paydowns, multiplying the value of your GP. Tiers don't refund $$$$ so if you bid on high and lose, you have an incentive to have built a solid mid or lowbie squad.
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I actually prefer separate bids for each element personally. It's very strong putting so many of the eggs in the basket-- but on the other hand like, going hard on overhauling is going to take more than a day to work out.

But yeah there's just a lot of value for that gp there-- maybe too much. I kinda feel like the one who wins the tier bid should just forfeit attacker/defender choice to the other one, really. At least for the RR. It's a bit less strong in the 2/3s since you gotta hit all tiers anyway, but here like, tier control is so good.

Still kinda like the lower bid paying a price though. But maybe not the full bid. Maybe like half the bid. I don't know.
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Skyridge87 posted...

So (most) everyone agrees the loser shouldn't lose their money at least?

Been a pretty solid outrage at that rule since it was uncovered. The vote in question here does not fix it but tries to compromise.
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Basically I am gonna just say this flat out: Anyone who says 'hey refund me the tier bid' wants nothing but high tier matches, forever. I don't, so I'm not gonna make it happen. That's a vote that isn't gonna fly guys, sorry!
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Corrik posted...

Disagree. If you lose a bid you should be refunded in full. A losing bid is a losing bid and should be treated as so.

It wasn't like that in the playoffs and for good reason.

This is incorrect btw.

Keep in mind I like the idea of the losing bid having to pay something, but in mercs 4 tier bidding wasn't actually nearly as strong cause it only happened in 2/3s-- that was the balancing factor there. You had to hit all tiers so you were just bidding on order. Here you can just spam the same tier so it's stronger.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Basically I am gonna just say this flat out: Anyone who says 'hey refund me the tier bid' wants nothing but high tier matches, forever. I don't, so I'm not gonna make it happen. That's a vote that isn't gonna fly guys, sorry!

I think that's a lie. People are going to all in in whatever category they feel they are better in. And once you do. You are gonna have less money the following week and thus probably going to lose tier bid.
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yeah I seem to recall being refunded if we lost tier bid in playoffs
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Lopen posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Corrik posted...

Disagree. If you lose a bid you should be refunded in full. A losing bid is a losing bid and should be treated as so.

It wasn't like that in the playoffs and for good reason.

This is incorrect btw.

Money didn't get refunded - I made bids with that in mind! Like, specifically that, even.
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It definitely did. Nothing in the rules indicates such. Like I said I scoffed at people bidding on tiers not because of lack of refunds but because it wasn't all that good-- you were just forcing a tier out earlier-- you still had to fight on all tiers so it had a lot less value.
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tier bidding was important to manage cooldowns
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Corrik posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Basically I am gonna just say this flat out: Anyone who says 'hey refund me the tier bid' wants nothing but high tier matches, forever. I don't, so I'm not gonna make it happen. That's a vote that isn't gonna fly guys, sorry!

I think that's a lie. People are going to all in in whatever category they feel they are better in. And once you do. You are gonna have less money the following week and thus probably going to lose tier bid.

Let's explain this with math.

I get a 7 and four 6s during draft. Paying them down to mid costs me 38 GP (it's not even worth discussing low) or 20 GP assuming I only pay down a 7 and a 6 (or 18 GP for 3 6s, or...you get the idea, but we'll work with wanting redundancies to guard against removals). Fielding them in high tier costs me nothing, and that kind of squad pretty much wins by default unless you bring KOs or other removals to bear. Thus, fighting in high tier is worth 38 GP (or 'tons' GP if you calculate off low, but let's assume we're not being silly with this hypothetical). Tier bidding without GP loss on misbid is an extremely powerful tier control tool that favors mercs that usually don't get to fight as much - AKA, high tier mercenaries. Those mercs are already huge problems for an opposing team to fight without ability spam or equal firepower. They don't need to be even better than they are as team pieces.
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