Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Diablo/Armstrong/Bass. EXE/Ryu H vs. Zero/Mega Man/Pit/Neptune/ Death

(+) Yeah! (+)

Basically if you ask me how THE HYPEZ go as far as who I think is strong/weak/lol:

Diablo=Zero>Armstrong>Bass.EXE>Ryu H>=MM=Neptune>Pit>>Death

This seems about right. Death really is kinda 'lol' here so this is sort of a 4v4 in disguise. Scare's team is just stronger in general, the only question is if you think buffz equalize it.
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I don't get how you place Pit that low with Three Sacred Treasures and a terrain to use 'em on >_>
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Tom Bombadil posted...

and she can fly

Tom Bombadil posted...

and there's no reason for her to just start off with it like the mahou shoujo she is

Both of these are true (Although she's nothing like a mahou shoujo bar transformation sequence.), all it takes to transform to HDD is 20% of her SP in-game, although if she breaks from combat she returns to normal (I believe?).

Tom Bombadil posted...

I don't get how you place Pit that low with Three Sacred Treasures and a terrain to use 'em on >_>

Ryu H, Bass and Armstrong are That Good (TM). It's nothing against Pit, is that I look at Bass's Vanishing World, his ability to hover/fly, his intense tankiness AND Life Aura as a further beef boost and I'm like...'this dude is super good yo'. You want me to buy Pit hype, sell me on him. Got a good vid on the Treasures or two?
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Death's giant ass skull, massive distraction.
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Lopen posted...

Death's giant ass skull, massive distraction.

The best part is 'ass skull' is an apt description of his looks

(but more seriously EVERYBODY dances circles around him or chucks him into the horizon if they're Armstrong. Death is a bonafide tank against weaker opposition but all the dudes here either teleport, are super fast, or lift 50k tons)
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I can't find that hype vid I was watching earlier, but I think this is the appropriate chunk of the story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTgJTeiIhsQ
Crazy mid-air maneuverability, crazy rate of fire with homing and decent damage, and a shield that appears to be Proto Man level.
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I mean I feel like Death is like as not to be his first CotM form which can actually, like, move and attack and stuff
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Anyway I'd like to say buffs win the day but it's kinda silly because I feel like Mega Man and Zero are kinda poor beneficiaries for buffs overall-- particularly the strength one since their weapons don't need strength. But speed is speed and always useful. On the other hand maybe Pit gets some boost out of a strength buff. All depends on whether he has mighty composite bows or not.

Leaning team Mega Man. Think the random toolkit of homing weapons and random weird ass projectiles between Pit and Mega Man combined with a haste buff can probably pin down Hayabusa reasonably well as they're closing in, and Zero's tankiness + two lives should be able to go toe to toe with Armstrong + Diablo. BASS I think can probably get his aura pierced by random Mega Man weapons. Atomic Fire or Crash Bomb or Laser Trident or whatever-- now after that point he's still very legit with his phasing around and stuff.

It's only a slight lean. I kinda need more convincing on Neptune's offensive contributions from range to abuse while flying around. If that's sufficient there should be enough support to handle the bum rush between her and Pit.
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I was so hyped up for Pit when I saw those arrow hails and then I realized they were bombs and got sadfaced

Still, that's not bad. Certainly puts him closer to MM and Nep than to the Ass Skull (TM). I feel like he can contribute, but who's he gonna be busy with? Ryu H? That's like the only guy who's gonna actually sell his shots.
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kinda leaning Team Neptune due to pro terrain choice

Team Armstrong is obviously superior in melee, but this terrain is great for range (especially ranged fliers like Pit + Neptune). thinking that Nep and co. can weaken them enough for pact'd Zero to win the eventual melee fight.

though I don't know Bass very well. does he have true flight? like, does he ever do more than just hover a few inches off the ground?
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https://youtu.be/anBk9OUxzr0?t=184

Bass can fly, has some pretty good AoE, and aside from his auras he has some other cheesy things

He constantly hovers and has a variety of defensive Auras, and has a large number of wide-range attacks at his disposal. Even after removing his Aura, he is immune to the Mega Buster, and quickly regenerates his Aura in a matter of seconds.

http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Bass.EXE
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

I was so hyped up for Pit when I saw those arrow hails and then I realized they were bombs and got sadfaced

Still, that's not bad. Certainly puts him closer to MM and Nep than to the Ass Skull (TM). I feel like he can contribute, but who's he gonna be busy with? Ryu H? That's like the only guy who's gonna actually sell his shots.

I mean, is there a reason Pit can't use the bombs here? He can use them during the Medusa fight, meaning he doesn't need Palutena's power of flight to use them.

Does his writeup allow it? I haven't played Uprising so I wouldn't know if it's covered.
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I dont think anyone wants me to shove diablo down their throats again, but his key points

red lightning hose
the gate
fire stomp, apocalypse, soul cages

he has big area attack, super tanky, can teleport, can shape shift

Armstrong is crazy strong, crazy fast, crazy tanky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duFWb8i3Ph4
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Drakeryn posted...

but this terrain is great for range (especially ranged fliers like Pit + Neptune).

Neptune isn't particularly a ranged flier, though. She's primarily melee with a katana. Pit is the only majorly ranged flier here.

On another note, I'm not sure about Bass' shields/barrier/aura as I'm not exactly a Mega man fan, but from what I've read above he would practically nullify the ranged advantage until they were broken.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Does his writeup allow it? I haven't played Uprising so I wouldn't know if it's covered.

Well, the only thing his writeup specifically disallows is being connected to goddesses and the power of flight, and as I said, the bombs work fine when using the Wings of Pegasus to fly, which he's doing here.

Only a handful of chips break Bass' aura without something boosting them, and most of those require settup. I wouldn't take random megaman weapons to break it, it takes a very strong single attack to pull it off.
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So basically here's how I see things right now:

-Pit is legit. I wasn't sure about him before the match started but Tom's made a solid case for him. He's not one of the strongest fighters in the match but this is more a credit to how stacked these rosters are for a mid fight than any disrespected to him.
-Bass is scary as SHIT. It really is hard to overstate just how good he is. He flies, his range is awesome, and most of the enemies here can't hurt him easily because of Life Aura, on top of being super tanky.
-MM and Pit form a solid range team while Nep and Zero hold the frontline. They can pepper the enemy team with damage errywhere and only Bass can really answer here.
-Team Scare's frontline is MONSTROUS. Diablo is not dying anytime soon to a lessened damage Zero and Nep, Armstrong is there to also draw aggro, and Ryu H would beat Neptune in a straight fight and give Zero a run for his money. Combined, I feel like Neptune dies kinda quickly because she's being asked to 2v3 alongside Zero against very scary foes.
-lol ass skull (more seriously Death is kinda ineffective here - Alany is correct that the True Dragon Blade is a super high tier holy weapon and will destroy him pronto, and Armstrong has so much power that he'll rip Death to pieces in seconds)
-Essentially, the question is if you think Zero and Neptune can outlast Diablo, Armstrong and Ryu H before he dies and renders the sacrificial pact null and void (or alternatively, if you think MM and Pit can defeat Bass before this happens, who I totally buy flying off to go pick a fight with them because he's the one best suited on his team for it). A dead Zero means this is over, because Sacrificial Pact explicitly DOES NOT revive him.

Overall, I lean towards Team Diablo, though I can be swayed otherwise. They're all super tanky, the enemy team is split in focus so they'll have trouble with losing the numbers game in melee, and I feel like it's unlikely Megaman dies before Zero given how most of the attention is likely to go onto the Reploid instead of him. It's close though, so I'm open to changing my mind with good arguments as to how Bass can't run good enough interference for the melee beasts to do their job and dunk Zero.
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Skyridge87 posted...

Well, the only thing his writeup specifically disallows is being connected to goddesses and the power of flight,

If he can't fly, I'm curious as to why this terrain is so great for them. The only one with true flight would then be Neptune. Anyone else on an island would have to deal with red lightning hose and other islands being thrown at them by Armstrong, which I thought would be workable with flight harassment with Pit, but if he can't truly fly (and exceedingly fast) as he does in the segments of the game I'm not sure if the hit and run tactic is quite so feasible.

JeffreyRaze posted...

Only a handful of chips break Bass' aura without something boosting them, and most of those require settup. I wouldn't take random megaman weapons to break it, it takes a very strong single attack to pull it off.

Also this yes. I don't buy random weapons doing it. Something like the Double Mega Buster, seen here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdGWhpmIguk#t=5m6s

Yeah, this probably does it. But how likely is Mega Man to go for such a high power, risky move before Zero bites the dust?

Skyridge87 posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Does his writeup allow it? I haven't played Uprising so I wouldn't know if it's covered.

Well, the only thing his writeup specifically disallows is being connected to goddesses and the power of flight, and as I said, the bombs work fine when using the Wings of Pegasus to fly, which he's doing here.

No I get that, what I mean is more that the writeup says he has access to specific weapons and makes no mention of the bombs. Would it be game-mechanicky for him to have those? If not, then I buy him having them and they probably help a bunch with making it possible to hurt Bass more easily. Dude is a huge tank and very hard to kill without something huge to break his guard, which a bomb might do.
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The literal second half of the post you quoted says he's flying using the Wings of Pegasus, one of the Three Sacred Treasures, which he has. Because Tom used the ability.

I get my sacred treasures mixed up. The Three Sacred Treasures isn't the mech, right? It's other stuff?
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Drakeryn posted...

I get my sacred treasures mixed up. The Three Sacred Treasures isn't the mech, right? It's other stuff?

Yeah, it's the equips - wing, shield, bow. The Great Sacred Treasure is the mech that would solo this match.
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Skyridge87 posted...

The literal second half of the post you quoted says he's flying using the Wings of Pegasus, one of the Three Sacred Treasures, which he has. Because Tom used the ability.

Bleh, sorry. It's late here. Never mind.

Drakeryn posted...

I get my sacred treasures mixed up. The Three Sacred Treasures isn't the mech, right? It's other stuff?

Yup, Three sacred isn't mecha. The Great Sacred Treasure is mecha.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

No I get that, what I mean is more that the writeup says he has access to specific weapons and makes no mention of the bombs. Would it be game-mechanicky for him to have those? If not, then I buy him having them and they probably help a bunch with making it possible to hurt Bass more easily. Dude is a huge tank and very hard to kill without something huge to break his guard, which a bomb might do.

Well, the bombs are only "bombs" in the sense that they're the typical screen clearing attacks in shoot-em-ups. All weapons have them, divided by weapon class (the Arrows of Light, the one used in that video, use bow bomb which is that huge rain of arrows). If I remember correctly, the staff bomb is a huge laser, the claw bomb is a storm of energy blades, and the arm bomb is filling the screen with several explosions.

The bombs are restricted to the flying sections of levels, but as I've said several times, there's nothing preventing Pit from using them during the Medusa fight, where's he's using the Three Sacred Treasures to fly and not the Power of Flight.

Oh, in that case I think I buy the bombs then. That seems legit. So it's possible those could break the Life Aura (I wouldn't buy his basic attacks doing it). The question then becomes, can Pit and MM beat Bass in a timely fashion before Zero dies (it's really worth asking about because 'immune to the mega buster' is no joke versus MM)? Or if they lose, do they lose at a time when the full heal on Zero will make a difference instead of being wasted because he's fresh or already dead?
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On pure parameters I like Scare's team to win this but...Pit I think actually is the key to things.

Mega Man has a lot of really great tools for stalling on a bridge while his ranged guys (Zero and Pit and Nep and Death, I guess) do work

Unless these rainbow bridges are bigger than I think, Mega Man is going to be able to turn this into a one on one sort of scenario where all he has to do is stall.

If Scare had flight or something on his side I would feel better about his odds, but really at best, Ryu can like get past mega man and even then theres Zero who I take to win that 9/10 times.
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oh it seems Bass can fly.

That does change things a bit doesnt it.
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Eddv posted...

On pure parameters I like Scare's team to win this but...Pit I think actually is the key to things.

Mega Man has a lot of really great tools for stalling on a bridge while his ranged guys (Zero and Pit and Nep and Death, I guess) do work

Unless these rainbow bridges are bigger than I think, Mega Man is going to be able to turn this into a one on one sort of scenario where all he has to do is stall.

If Scare had flight or something on his side I would feel better about his odds, but really at best, Ryu can like get past mega man and even then theres Zero who I take to win that 9/10 times.

Bass flies and teleports, Diablo teleports, I think Ryu teleports as well? And Armstrong moves super quickly and has high agility and jumping so I don't feel like the terrain really hinders any of my team
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Bass can fly (Scare showed it). More importantly though...

https://youtu.be/pn2IpV_ZFb4?t=864

This is the road to Celestia. The bridges ain't tiny. I'm not sure how MM can hold one here - his best bet is finding an elevated position way outta the way and shooting from there tbqh. If he gets within jumping range of Armstrong, teleport range of Diablo, or ninja range of Ryu H, he's fucked, and I love me some Rock.
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"Armstrong is agile" he's pretty great for a middle aged man but lets not pretend hes on the level of people who star in platformers.
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PS @ScareChan get on discord imo, it was a pain in the ass to arrange this match when I could ring up Tom instantly but couldn't reach you easily :(
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nah that bridge is actually about the size I was envisioning actually.

it allows people to MAYBE go two wide but thats only what 10 ish feet wide
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Eddv posted...

nah that bridge is actually about the size I was envisioning actually.

it allows people to MAYBE go two wide but thats only what 10 ish feet wide

Wouldn't that play to Armstrong's favor here then? Personally I don't think anything in this match, even Diablo could stop Armstrong at a full-pelt straight forward charge. If MM tried to stop that without some serious tricks I don't yet know of, he'd be a mega bucket of bolts by the end of it.

Eddv posted...

"Armstrong is agile" he's pretty great for a middle aged man but lets not pretend hes on the level of people who star in platformers.

It's not that he's agile. He has good leaps, as seen here:

https://youtu.be/duFWb8i3Ph4?t=278

I feel like it's kinda hard to check Armstrong in this situation because he's not ultra fast but he can jump well. Which is all he needs to get close to Rock if the situation calls for it I think.
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I'm not sure if Pit's fit to break Bass's lifeaura. Even his bomb attack is him raining down multiple arrows, which isn't the kind of thing that breaks through. You need a strong, singular attack like Zero's Z-Saber charge attack to break it, otherwise that's like trying to do 80 damage 10 times to something that negates all damage below 100.
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Im thinking of stuff like the crash bombs or wind man, concrete blocks that he can shoot or especially galaxy man's black hole bomb stuff.

Plus this form of death is actually apparently pretty decent for this (I was envisioning a different games Death).

That said youre right that this is probably going to be more of a strafing cover thing for Team Zero.

My big thing here is I just think Zero eats Ryus lunch here and that once that man advantage gets going its gonna be hars to stop Zero with flanking help from rock and Death AND an extra life to boot.

I think if Team Zero had nowhere to run nowhere to hide theyd be boned but that Zero probably has just enough juice and support to pull this off.
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I kind of also have this vision in my head of Armstrong straight up throwing Diablo at someone, or more likely Bass since he knows he cant be damaged easily. so if they have some kind of range advantage it would be negated by one of them being thrown in and them AoEing while Armstrong closes the gap
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KJH posted...

I'm not sure if Pit's fit to break Bass's lifeaura. Even his bomb attack is him raining down multiple arrows, which isn't the kind of thing that breaks through. You need a strong, singular attack like Zero's Z-Saber charge attack to break it, otherwise that's like trying to do 80 damage 10 times to something that negates all damage below 100.

Yeah, this is true. It really depends on what bombs Pit has access to IMO. If it's just the arrow rains it probably isn't good enough.
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Eddv posted...

Im thinking of stuff like the crash bombs or wind man, concrete blocks that he can shoot or especially galaxy man's black hole bomb stuff.

Plus this form of death is actually apparently pretty decent for this (I was envisioning a different games Death).

That said youre right that this is probably going to be more of a strafing cover thing for Team Zero.

My big thing here is I just think Zero eats Ryus lunch here and that once that man advantage gets going its gonna be hars to stop Zero with flanking help from rock and Death AND an extra life to boot.

I think if Team Zero had nowhere to run nowhere to hide theyd be boned but that Zero probably has just enough juice and support to pull this off.

My team is much tankier. In a war of attrition my team has the edge, even with an extra life from Zero, especially since his form chosen has weaker power
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Eddv posted...

My big thing here is I just think Zero eats Ryus lunch here and that once that man advantage gets going its gonna be hars to stop Zero with flanking help from rock and Death AND an extra life to boot.

Don't quite see how you're going on this note though, about Ryu at least. Disregarding our respect for the guy, if Zero is engaging in close combat he has to deal with Diablo and Armstrong and with the HoTS addition there's slows, stuns and grapples to contend with there.
Neptune isn't reliable back up for melee and as Bass can cover for the whole team with his barriers, going into melee is basically suicide for Zero. His second life doesn't even proc if he dies first either, which is the big kicker here. If Zero dies before Mega man then there's no second Zero, which means all melee power on the team is neutered.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Yeah, this is true. It really depends on what bombs Pit has access to IMO. If it's just the arrow rains it probably isn't good enough.

Skyridge87 posted...

If I remember correctly, the staff bomb is a huge laser, the claw bomb is a storm of energy blades, and the arm bomb is filling the screen with several explosions.

Re: Zero eating Ryu H's lunch, I wouldn't be so sure.

https://youtu.be/3H6lD7A2630?t=823

This is a random showing from Ninja Gaiden 1 (XBOX), where he's at his weakest. His bow is so strong it kills tanks, which are a mandatory fight. He then takes on an attack chopper, and wins. These are midbosses for him. When he faces a real challenge, it's things like a goddess the size of a skyscraper that he cleaves in twain. He's really, really not ignorable and he basically can smash Neptune without buffs (and it's close in his favor WITH buffs to her advantage). If Zero has to focus on him, then Armstrong or Diablo will ring him out with a big punch and that's kind of a huge win for Scare's team even if Ryu H dies in the process.
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Skyridge87 posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Yeah, this is true. It really depends on what bombs Pit has access to IMO. If it's just the arrow rains it probably isn't good enough.

Skyridge87 posted...

If I remember correctly, the staff bomb is a huge laser, the claw bomb is a storm of energy blades, and the arm bomb is filling the screen with several explosions.

Thank you skyridge. So out of these the laser might do the trick. How tactical a fighter is Pit? Would he realize he needs a big blast quickly?
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The mai. Problem is that unless i am convinced that someone on toms team is just completely dead weight here (and before i saw WHICH death this is i thought that was the case) that means at least one person is running free and on this terrain that really matters if neptune gets her buffs on Zero and Rock there is literally no stopping them.
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Eddv posted...

The mai. Problem is that unless i am convinced that someone on toms team is just completely dead weight here (and before i saw WHICH death this is i thought that was the case) that means at least one person is running free and on this terrain that really matters if neptune gets her buffs on Zero and Rock there is literally no stopping them.

I feel like Death doesn't add a lot because like...his attacks aren't going to faze Armstrong and Diablo, Bass flies and is way more agile, and Ryu H has the true dragon blade, which does shit like this.

https://youtu.be/zvT9yjUAX0g?t=26

(this is a more experienced Ryu H and you shouldn't assume it's his usual power level here because it's one game past the one he's limited to ATM - but it's a good example of his ceiling, and Death is nowhere near this impressive.)

I don't feel like Death is gonna stop anybody. Just way outgunned, really.
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He doesn't need to stop anyone. He just kinda has to get in the way and thats something he can do.
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Eddv posted...

and on this terrain that really matters if neptune gets her buffs on Zero and Rock there is literally no stopping them.

Why though? What do her buffs provide that allow them to solo Diablo, Armstrong and Bass?

Taking tom at his word here
Stat Multiplier buffs durability, speed, and special attack/defense! She also has a strength buff.

Yes, especially since Neptune and Pit still exist and Death is a big in the way body.
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