Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Diablo/Armstrong/Bass. EXE/Ryu H vs. Zero/Mega Man/Pit/Neptune/ Death

(+) Yeah! (+)

But Diablo basically has passive debuffs due to HotS stuff. If you attack him you are slowed, or stunned most of the time. So he would negate attacks on him and allow his help to come in and add to the attack
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You dont want me taking HotS to be Diablo s actual power level.
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Eddv posted...

You dont want me taking HotS to be Diablo s actual power level.

What Scare's saying is that Diablo gets this on top of D3 stuff. Like it's an extra, not an either/or. Kinda like how we give Sephiroth most of the Bizarro and Safer Seph moves and KH stuff and everything else.
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yeah he is D3+
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Well no it days as seen in Diablo 3 and HotS. Thats not "the best of both worlds" but instead literally "both are true" its always been difficult for me to handle writeups like those.

HotS gives him some stuff but it also shows him getting his teeth kicked in by like Malf or Lost Vikings too which suggests perhaps just everyone in Diablos games suck at their jobs.
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Then you are using Smash logic which means Bayonetta can lose to Yoshi
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Those kinds of writeups are pretty much always interpreted as 'use the highest benchmark, give it anything the lower benchmark shows that it doesn't get'. Diablo in HotS is Diablo from a different (earlier) era than Diablo from D3 because it's his most recognizable look, and doesn't say anything about his plot hype. Like...to put it in perspective, Diablo in HotS has the appearance of Diablo from D1 and D2. But by contrast, when we see him in a HotS cutscene...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ecv0bT9DEo

D3 version. And shows himself to be so tanky that the gauss gun Raynor is packing doesn't even rate as an annoyance. The response to Diablo's beefiness is literally 'drop a nuclear missile on him' because nothing else Raynor's team brings in rates. So this gives you an idea on what to use and where he stands. He gets the gameplay of HotS and the feats of D3 for plot hype and durability.
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Eddv posted...

Taking tom at his word here
Stat Multiplier buffs durability, speed, and special attack/defense! She also has a strength buff.

Yes, especially since Neptune and Pit still exist and Death is a big in the way body.

Holy fuck finding information about this game is impossible.

But let's clear some things up. From what I've found buffs give around 20-40% stat increases. But much like most hardcore JRPGs they only last a few turns and are not lengthy in time at all.

Neptune's most powerful buff "Stat multiplier" costs 500 out of her 2500 SP pool. She already sacrifices 20% of it to utilize her HDD form which allows her to fly and be competent in combat. This means while she van buff the two, she can only do so 4 times and each one will only last a few "turns".

I don't feel this is enough to turn the tide of battle against enemies like this myself, even assuming perfect usage. But I hope that cleared up/explained what Tom didn't, I certainty can't blame him as finding all of this was really damn hard.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Skyridge87 posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Yeah, this is true. It really depends on what bombs Pit has access to IMO. If it's just the arrow rains it probably isn't good enough.

Skyridge87 posted...

If I remember correctly, the staff bomb is a huge laser, the claw bomb is a storm of energy blades, and the arm bomb is filling the screen with several explosions.

Thank you skyridge. So out of these the laser might do the trick. How tactical a fighter is Pit? Would he realize he needs a big blast quickly?

Well, assuming Pit is focusing solely on Bass (which I don't really see a reason why he would?), he's fought enemies with various barriers before, so I don't think it's unreasonable to hit him with the single biggest blast he has.

There's also the Mirror Shield, which could bounce Bass' attacks back at him. Can Bass pierce his own shield?

Also, the Arrows of Light can kill a certain enemy that's normally invincible, so that's something I guess.

ScareChan posted...

Then you are using Smash logic which means Bayonetta can lose to Yoshi

Actually re: Bayonetta she cant - nothing about Smash in her write up!

(This is why i tend to ignore it entirely!)

but compare it to the language found in say Solid Snake

Solid Snake is as seen in Metal Gear Solid 2, with access to all of his equipment and gear from that game, including the Bandanna and Stealth Camo. Additionally, he comes with the Solid Eye and Octocamo as seen in Metal Gear Solid 4

Or how about speaking of smash, Ness.

Ness is as seen in Earthbound. He is equipped with the Legendary Bat, Earth Pendant, Goddess Band, and Souvenir Coin. He also has access to all of his PSI attacking and healing skills, as well as his moves from Super Smash Bros

So while that may have been the intent thats literally not what the writeup says.
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On a further note, investigation finds that Neptune throughout the series is most certainly not a buffing or support character. All of her buffs are single target, her SP is lower than most and her stats are geared up specifically for close quarters physical combat with her sword. Most guides I've found support it and information too.

seen here- Armstrong ripping off Zero and Megaman's faces

https://youtu.be/hfde9SEZjYc?t=69

'Murica
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@Skyridge87

You asked about bass getting his attacks reflected back at him how he would handle it.


Bass getting hit by his own attack, but it does no damage

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/megaman_ ... 02/20.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/megaman_ ... 02/21.html

http://www.factpiletopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=33910

Bass is legit. He's got some Akuma feats. I remember there is an anime too I need to check up on
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I'm not sure you can really call that flying on Bass' part! >_>

I got Pit a staff specifically because it said it was heavy damage. I'd hope it could break through that aura thing, and it seems a logical choice for an opener given the range.

I assume you have hard data on the Neptunia SP costs, Alany? I'm going mostly off memory, and I remember SP being an issue but not THAT big of one. I also don't remember it costing anything to transform, but I assume you found something that says otherwise. Just wanna confirm that. >_> She is primarily melee, yes, but if you've got a buff that solid, might as well use it! I wanna say they last like five rounds, which is decent enough imo.

woulda been nice if Ryu H could've gotten that much respect for things other than melee on my team! >_>

man I HOPE armstrong tries to block the z-saber with his hands like that video

Zero does have his buster! I understand that's not his main gig but he's not useless at range either.
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Nep DOES have skills that don't trigger off her gauge, btw. I think that's actually most of the video that was posted earlier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd1EbkuFMZs But SP IS a factor if you wanna argue those AND the buffs (and the transformation, apparently? I remember putting it in the same category as Mega Evolution or Z Moves: "I COULD just do this every fight but do I really wanna watch the cutscene every time") I think 32-bit Mega Blade gives her a bit of range, too, albeit just barely enough to be a projectile.

There was discussion in discord over whether she'd transform. She can't start in HDD per her writeup, but in game she frequently transforms in the cutscenes before boss fights, so she isn't going to be shy about using that ASAP.
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Since one admin already voted I'm going to wait to vote or even argue much in case you need a tiebreaker, but this whole "Diablo gets nerfed from HoTS being in his writeup" is exceptionally dumb.
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Team Super Fighting Robots and Nep-Nep
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Does Ryu get any DoA showings or no?
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believe that's a no, although sometimes we can argue over whether characters are capable of feats from outside their writeup
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trdl23 posted...

Since one admin already voted I'm going to wait to vote or even argue much in case you need a tiebreaker, but this whole "Diablo gets nerfed from HoTS being in his writeup" is exceptionally dumb.

Agreed, which is one of the reasons I want writeups to only stick to source material.

Eddv posted...

Well no it days as seen in Diablo 3 and HotS. Thats not "the best of both worlds" but instead literally "both are true" its always been difficult for me to handle writeups like those.

I treat it as, he's Diablo 3 Diablo, because that's the real canon Diablo. But he also gets HotS moves. So it's not really "best of both worlds" (if HotS Diablo somehow had better feats/stats than D3 Diablo I would ignore it, just like I am ignoring that HotS cutscene). It's canon Diablo + bonus skillset.
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Also, was this ever answered?

Drakeryn posted...

I don't know Bass very well. does he have true flight? like, does he ever do more than just hover a few inches off the ground?

Everyone is talking about Bass flying, but I don't know if that's just hyping up the way his toes don't quite touch the ground in his boss fight.

This is probably decisive for me because if Bass can take to the skies and get in Nep's face from the very start, it comes down to a melee fight much faster.
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ScareChan posted...

https://youtu.be/anBk9OUxzr0?t=184

Bass can fly, has some pretty good AoE, and aside from his auras he has some other cheesy things

He constantly hovers and has a variety of defensive Auras, and has a large number of wide-range attacks at his disposal. Even after removing his Aura, he is immune to the Mega Buster, and quickly regenerates his Aura in a matter of seconds.

http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Bass.EXE

That video Scare posted implies to me that he has actual flight. That's a little high to fall under the "chuu2 Magus style gliding over the ground"

But I'm not exactly convinced he could catch Pit with this either. A video where he's flying and moving a bit quicker would be good for selling that.
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oh yeah I missed that

hmm

(also why is he throwing soccer balls at him)
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Mega Man has a long history with the soccer ball
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Lopen posted...

That video Scare posted implies to me that he has actual flight. That's a little high to fall under the "chuu2 Magus style gliding over the ground"

he like moves less than Death though >_>
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I acknowledged that in the next line you conveniently omitted!
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Honestly, I wouldn't use that video to show that bass has flight, and I would rather use bass's better mobility, hovering+extremely fast movement shown in the battle network boss fights over that scene, where he just sat in the air and by his own words was screwing off.

Well yeah that scene really just says "he can do more than just glide over the ground" pretty definitively

The other ones where he's phasing all over the place and spazzing out with attacks linked earlier in the topic are way more impressive for combat capabilities

But what we'd need is a video where he's flying way over the ground doing that stuff to really sell his aerial prowess.
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I doubt that'd be found Lopen, there's only that and rockman exe ws on the wonderswan that was part of the battle network series that isn't the 3x6 grid.

Team Pit

TST honestly gets this vote for me just due to sheer mobility. "Bass Can Fly" hardly matters when power of flight Pit can legitimately break Earth's atmosphere and go into space and Mirror Shield passive reflects anything that would actively hurt him. Power of Flight granted by the Pegasus Wings is, by far, Pit's best non-GST showing in Uprising, and makes him into "literally flying Sonic with lasers" for me. Add in Neptune's Attack, Defense, and Speed all-in-one buff that she has time to give to everyone, and there's just nobody on the other team who can really hit Pit effectively. Bass, probably eventually, but comparing his speed to Pit's is laughable to the point where he'll probably be pinned down by Pit's suppressing fire. I do believe that Diablo or Armstrong beat Purple Heart straight-up - just too much damn power there - but buffed up Zero, again, gives the team such a horrible speed advantage that outside of very select AoE attacks, I come up with the question of "how do they get hit" more often than not. Unless they're Death. He's funny.
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In MMBN3 he flies in from off the map during the FlamMan scenario IIRC.
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If it's odd that I keep hying Bass without voting, keep in mind that my Zero respect is through the roof too, and they don't have a great way of actually hitting Pit. Bass is second only to Quickman in his own series, but he's not exactly good at anti-air, and Armstrong and Diablo aren't either IIRC. I've heard of the archery feat for Ryu-H, but how likely is it that he can tag Pit?
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I think Ryu or Bass can tag Pit in time-- the question is how quickly they prioritize hitting him

Now very legit possibility that Ryu gets some eagle flashbacks and prioritizes the feathered guy to start which would be bad news for Pit's team.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

believe that's a no, although sometimes we can argue over whether characters are capable of feats from outside their writeup

He gets them. They're part of his timeline and consistent with the stuff he does in Ninja Gaiden.

JeffreyRaze posted...

If it's odd that I keep hying Bass without voting, keep in mind that my Zero respect is through the roof too, and they don't have a great way of actually hitting Pit. Bass is second only to Quickman in his own series, but he's not exactly good at anti-air, and Armstrong and Diablo aren't either IIRC. I've heard of the archery feat for Ryu-H, but how likely is it that he can tag Pit?

There's multiple bossfights against fliers in Ninja Gaiden. You have the one vs an attack helicopter and another one vs a monster. See here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns46CrFRRxU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jcy4cAM-no

woulda been nice if Ryu H could've gotten that much respect for things other than melee on my team! >_>

You fought mostly in the waterball Tom, I can't hype the fact Ryu H has tungsten antitank arrows while he's underwater. :-/
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one more that I forgot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxnXNHPRais

This one's NG3 so take with a grain of salt if anything doesn't jive with the two above, but I just want to confirm the pattern. Pretty much every game you gotta take on some bullshit flying boss and blow it the hell up with arrows in NG3. Ryu H's range is legit.
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hate to say it but

dum robots win
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If only Beat and Eddie and Rush were here

HYPAAAAAA~ would make me vote Mega Man's team easily
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it is perhaps worth pointing out that contrary to his writeup, Ryu H does not have his character upgrade with Howling Cannon and Enma Fang
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I've decided I won't vote in my groups matches but I feel pretty good team zero has what it takes to win

Imo

Didn't read any arguments since last night tho
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(unless I missed something, but I can't imagine what on week 1 >_>)
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I mean don't get me wrong, those are some damn impressive showings from Ryu and "flies in from off the map" is nice...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS74P36Ty0M#t=3m20s

But this is Pit circling gas giants and breaking the atmospheric barrier. Escape velocity for Earth (and KI:U is confirmed Earth as it appear in Grecian times) is Mach 33, or 11.2 km/s. And Pit can still fight at that speed. Even accounting for lol saturday morning cartoon shit, it's still RIDICULOUS levels of fasts, ESPECIALLY after he's buffed. Road To Celestia is long enough that the buffs will absolutely take place as well.
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Gatarix posted...

Also, was this ever answered?

Drakeryn posted...

I don't know Bass very well. does he have true flight? like, does he ever do more than just hover a few inches off the ground?

Everyone is talking about Bass flying, but I don't know if that's just hyping up the way his toes don't quite touch the ground in his boss fight.

This is probably decisive for me because if Bass can take to the skies and get in Nep's face from the very start, it comes down to a melee fight much faster.

He flies. Whenever you see him in cut scenes he is flying
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Lopen posted...

ScareChan posted...

https://youtu.be/anBk9OUxzr0?t=184

Bass can fly, has some pretty good AoE, and aside from his auras he has some other cheesy things

He constantly hovers and has a variety of defensive Auras, and has a large number of wide-range attacks at his disposal. Even after removing his Aura, he is immune to the Mega Buster, and quickly regenerates his Aura in a matter of seconds.

http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Bass.EXE

That video Scare posted implies to me that he has actual flight. That's a little high to fall under the "chuu2 Magus style gliding over the ground"

But I'm not exactly convinced he could catch Pit with this either. A video where he's flying and moving a bit quicker would be good for selling that.

This is Network Transmission which is a platformer, its much much slower than any other of the entries. Any other Bass video should show how quick he moves. He moves so fast that he causes after images, if not straight up teleports
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Bass makes no move. Firing icicles at him, Bass is impaled by them, but seems completely unfazed, as he counters by breaking the floor underneath FreezeMan, making him fall into the building.

However, FreezeMan causes the entire building to become frozen, with Bass on it as well. As FreezeMan mocks Bass, thinking that it was a mistake to think him a threat, Bass causes the entire frozen building to rise up to the sky, displaying powers that rivals even that of the Grave Virus Beast as FreezeMan noted.
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team pit

I really have mad respect for everyone on the other team (you guys know I love the hell out of bass) but I think Pit has been under-respected here. The strength of the other team isn't amazing for dealing a super strong flying mech on top of everything else
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bass breaks the island that zero is standing on gg
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Get Ability: This is Bass's most important and essential ability. Like the classic Bass, Bass can absorb the abilities of defeated foes. He used this to gain every ability from defeated foes, including Life Aura, Gospel, Alpha, Dark Soul and Cybeasts.
In the anime, he has no such program as he merely feeds on any data program. It is assumed that because of this, Bass is able to consume any other types of power to refill his original strength. In Rockman.EXE: Program of Light and Dark, he utilizes this ability in an attempt to absorb MegaMan's Ultimate Program to defeat Nebula Grey, though this backfires and creates Forte Cross Rockman. Following Nebula Grey's defeat, it is implied that Bass absorbed its remains, gathering enough power to exact his revenge on Slur.EXE.
In the manga, unlike in both game and anime, this ability allows Bass to automatically absorb other Navis' powers before defeating them, though the only time it did so was when Bass gains Hub Style. Bass utilizes this ability to get Serenade.EXE's attack reflection power, in an attempt to save MegaMan's life to absorb him into himself and become Forte Cross Rockman, and to gain Beast Out Falzar power.


So this is canon in the games, even if you are hesitant with anime or manga showings. But if Megaman goes down to power up Zero, and its by the hands of Bass, nothing stopping Bass from regaining health too, as it would definitely work against Megaman universe characters
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Chaos Nightmare (MMBN5): A variant on Darkness Overload. Bass rises high above the field and creates a growing giant sphere of dark power on one of his hands before casting it down on his opponent. This attack hits the target's original location and every panel surrounding it; it pierces invisibility and cracks all panels in the impact area.

Earth Breaker: Bass will rise briefly out of reach and then descend suddenly, trying to smite his target with an overhead-slamming arm strike. This attack ignores most if not all defenses and will break an entire column of panels. Note that Bass drops the Life Aura for the duration of this attack, making this attack his biggest vulnerability.



sounds pretty good against Pit imo
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Chaeix posted...

team pit

I really have mad respect for everyone on the other team (you guys know I love the hell out of bass) but I think Pit has been under-respected here. The strength of the other team isn't amazing for dealing a super strong flying mech on top of everything else

This is Three Sacred Treasures pit not Great Secret Treasure pit.

Hes got the shield and the wings and stuff not the mech
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