Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 101: Purple Sock

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I think humanity's capacity to curb global warming is insanely negligible. There is a reason why objective evaluations of non-profits always recommend against donating to environmental causes--there's simply not a lot we can do.

Also, let's assume this is true

Shouldn't our priority as a species be finding ways to adapt and/or settle on other worlds?

And not just "oh well our house is on fire, nothing we can do, so I'll go light some more candles."

You're assuming that the adaptation to slightly rising temperatures won't be organic over the next century
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It's already happening and it's already NOT organic

You know what helps Middle East radicalization? People losing farming jobs because it's too hot there to grow crops now compared to 20 years ago.
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Jakyl25 posted...

It's already happening and it's already NOT organic

You know what helps Middle East radicalization? People losing farming jobs because it's too hot there to grow crops now compared to 20 years ago.

For fucks sake, make some jobs, Trump.
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Jakyl25 posted...

It's already happening and it's already NOT organic

You know what helps Middle East radicalization? People losing farming jobs because it's too hot there to grow crops now compared to 20 years ago.

Adaptation requires generations

I'm postulating that things like the Paris agreement will have zero impact on the climate. Why should we do something that is harmful short term and meaningless long term?
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I have to say, the inevitability argument that Seph's putting forth is pretty refreshing compared to the usual man made climate change denial that sometimes gets tossed around.
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Jak, what do you think could have been realistically done to prevent those arid conditions in the middle east you cited?
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VintageGin posted...

argument that Seph's putting forth is pretty refreshing

New sig?
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

It's already happening and it's already NOT organic

You know what helps Middle East radicalization? People losing farming jobs because it's too hot there to grow crops now compared to 20 years ago.

Adaptation requires generations

I'm postulating that things like the Paris agreement will have zero impact on the climate. Why should we do something that is harmful short term and meaningless long term?

Except it's likely more harmful to pull out of it. What happens when Tesla moves all those jobs to Europe? All those renewable energy jobs, if they don't go to the US, aren't going to be replaced by coal jobs.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

I'm postulating that things like the Paris agreement will have zero impact on the climate.

If everyone followed it, it absolutely would have impact.

Like, even a 0.1C global temperature shift is monumental to us and the other species of Earth
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VintageGin posted...

I have to say, the inevitability argument that Seph's putting forth is pretty refreshing compared to the usual man made climate change denial that sometimes gets tossed around.

It's actually mildly ironic, since we argue that coal's death is similarly inevitable.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

It's already happening and it's already NOT organic

You know what helps Middle East radicalization? People losing farming jobs because it's too hot there to grow crops now compared to 20 years ago.

Adaptation requires generations

I'm postulating that things like the Paris agreement will have zero impact on the climate. Why should we do something that is harmful short term and meaningless long term?

Except it's likely more harmful to pull out of it. What happens when Tesla moves all those jobs to Europe? All those renewable energy jobs, if they don't go to the US, aren't going to be replaced by coal jobs.

Why would renewable energy jobs disappear if the market needs them due to this alleged wave of environmentally conscious citizens?
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jak, what do you think could have been realistically done to prevent those arid conditions in the middle east you cited?

Not much because the damage was done before we had full knowledge. But I don't want that to continue to happen!

It's like cigarettes; people who died from lung cancer because they smoked them in the '30s didn't know any better. People who die from lung cancer today absolutely do.

(Also one thing we could do to mitigate the damage is accept more refugees but that's another story)
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jak, what do you think could have been realistically done to prevent those arid conditions in the middle east you cited?

In 1973 we have heavy evidence of CFCs behavior in the atmosphere.

They waited until 1987 for the Montreal Protocol.
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if the government (trump) hands out big fat subsidies to non renewables the renewables won't be able to compete

like yeah i love the idea of free range chickens but i'm not going to pay five times as much for my eggs, i'm not that great of a person

but yeah, renewables will win out in the end. it's a matter of how quickly vs. how much damage is done in the interim
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Why would renewable energy jobs disappear if the market needs them due to this alleged wave of environmentally conscious citizens?

Because people are sheep and need to be led.

I fully accept that most people do not put their money where their mouth is with regard to environmentalism.
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Jakyl25 posted...

It's like cigarettes; people who died from lung cancer because they smoked them in the '30s didn't know any better. People who die from lung cancer today absolutely do.

If you believe climate change is as obviously dangerous as smoking, sure. I happen to believe that it's both inevitable and adaptable. Let the Earth do its thing.
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so we can mark seph down on the side of 'let god sort it out'
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banananor posted...

if the government (trump) hands out big fat subsidies to non renewables the renewables won't be able to compete

Renewable energy is subsidized far more than anything already
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FFDragon posted...

so we can mark seph down on the side of 'let god sort it out'

I don't believe in God per se but you do you man
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The Paris Agreement was drafted specifically to avoid the US Congress. I am surprised so many countries signed on to it, knowing that it could be withdrawn anytime a Republican win the presidency in the US.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

banananor posted...

if the government (trump) hands out big fat subsidies to non renewables the renewables won't be able to compete

Renewable energy is subsidized far more than anything already

yeah, and we need to keep it that way, and make it even more lopsided

fossil fuels still get billions of dollars that they shouldnt
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Here's some info on the Middle East and Climate Change. I hope we can all accept NASA as a source?

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/nasa-finds-drought-in-eastern-mediterranean-worst-of-past-900-years/

A new NASA study finds that the recent drought that began in 1998 in the eastern Mediterranean Levant region, which comprises Cyprus, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, and Turkey, is likely the worst drought of the past nine centuries.
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red sox 777 posted...

The Paris Agreement was drafted specifically to avoid the US Congress. I am surprised so many countries signed on to it, knowing that it could be withdrawn anytime a Republican win the presidency in the US.

It literally does not mean anything binding, so there's no significant downside to signing on anyway.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

It's like cigarettes; people who died from lung cancer because they smoked them in the '30s didn't know any better. People who die from lung cancer today absolutely do.

If you believe climate change is as obviously dangerous as smoking, sure. I happen to believe that it's both inevitable and adaptable. Let the Earth do its thing.

Based on what evidence?
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SupremeZero posted...

red sox 777 posted...

The Paris Agreement was drafted specifically to avoid the US Congress. I am surprised so many countries signed on to it, knowing that it could be withdrawn anytime a Republican win the presidency in the US.

It literally does not mean anything binding, so there's no significant downside to signing on anyway.

Then why cry so hard when we withdraw?
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

banananor posted...

if the government (trump) hands out big fat subsidies to non renewables the renewables won't be able to compete

Renewable energy is subsidized far more than anything already

A 2016 study estimated that global fossil fuel subsidies were $5.3 trillion in 2015, which represents 6.5% of global GDP.

...

Global renewable energy subsidies reached $88 billion in 2011.

Something tells me that renewable energy subsidies haven't jumped x70 in those 5 years.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

It's like cigarettes; people who died from lung cancer because they smoked them in the '30s didn't know any better. People who die from lung cancer today absolutely do.

If you believe climate change is as obviously dangerous as smoking, sure. I happen to believe that it's both inevitable and adaptable. Let the Earth do its thing.

Based on what evidence?

The entire history of the planet
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Jakyl25 posted...

I hope we can all accept NASA as a source?

you want to argue NASA is as legitimate a source as sephy's ass? please.
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Jakyl25 posted...

I hope we can all accept NASA as a source?

My dad had "The Five" on and Greg Gutfield apparently thinks they're a crock of shit.
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the earth will be fine no matter what. human life as we know it is not guaranteed
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

It's like cigarettes; people who died from lung cancer because they smoked them in the '30s didn't know any better. People who die from lung cancer today absolutely do.

If you believe climate change is as obviously dangerous as smoking, sure. I happen to believe that it's both inevitable and adaptable. Let the Earth do its thing.

Based on what evidence?

The entire history of the planet

Most of which is the story of species becoming extinct due to climate disasters
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if people are crying about refugees now, just imagine what it's going to be like when crops are dying, the sea level has risen and millions are displaced
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TheRock1525 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

I hope we can all accept NASA as a source?

My dad had "The Five" on and Greg Gutfield apparently thinks they're a crock of shit.

"What are they, some kind of rocket scientists?"
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Maybe someone else can play devil's advocate and do a better job explaining Seph's POV? What about the history of the world might lead him to believe that major climate change (of any sort) is readily adaptable?
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TheRock1525 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

banananor posted...

if the government (trump) hands out big fat subsidies to non renewables the renewables won't be able to compete

Renewable energy is subsidized far more than anything already

A 2016 study estimated that global fossil fuel subsidies were $5.3 trillion in 2015, which represents 6.5% of global GDP.

...

Global renewable energy subsidies reached $88 billion in 2011.

Something tells me that renewable energy subsidies haven't jumped x70 in those 5 years.

This is the gross amount... You have to look at the percentage. Of course the gross subsidies will be more when the oil industry is a hundred times the size of the solar industry
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Jakyl25 posted...

Maybe someone else can play devil's advocate and do a better job explaining Seph's POV? What about the history of the world might lead him to believe that major climate change (of any sort) is readily adaptable?

There is no devil's advocate for this. Stop humoring it.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

It's like cigarettes; people who died from lung cancer because they smoked them in the '30s didn't know any better. People who die from lung cancer today absolutely do.

If you believe climate change is as obviously dangerous as smoking, sure. I happen to believe that it's both inevitable and adaptable. Let the Earth do its thing.

Based on what evidence?

The entire history of the planet

Most of which is the story of species becoming extinct due to climate disasters

The story of our planet is actually one of survival and adaptation. And the climate catastrophes you're referring to were orders of magnitude worse than even the most dire predictions now
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KamikazePotato posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Maybe someone else can play devil's advocate and do a better job explaining Seph's POV? What about the history of the world might lead him to believe that major climate change (of any sort) is readily adaptable?

There is no devil's advocate for this. Stop humoring it.

The topic's almost over anyway
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

The story of our planet is actually one of survival and adaptation

Uh, no, not really.

Do they teach different prehistory in some places?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

The story of our planet is actually one of survival and adaptation

Uh, no, not really.

Do they teach different prehistory in some places?

The planet is only 6000 years old.
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You do realize there's more renewable energy than just solar, right?
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Also the things local/state govs and businesses are doing now to stay within the parameters of the agreement are EXACTLY what Republicans want! Let states who won't be greatly impacted make their own policies while places like Kentucky can have different standards. It's a lovely compromise.
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How freaky would it be to be the first people to piece together what dinosaurs were and that they all suddenly died after millions upon millions of years. Talk about a dark realization of what can happen.

Just an interesting thought.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Also the things local/state govs and businesses are doing now to stay within the parameters of the agreement are EXACTLY what Republicans want! Let states who won't be greatly impacted make their own policies while places like Kentucky can have different standards. It's a lovely compromise.

Unless places like Alabama that will be greatly impacted decide that it isn't real and millions of people are hurt.
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Yeah I would offhandedly guess Kentucky as one of the most relatively insulated places from drastic climate effects.

Few more tornadoes, but their economy doesn't collapse at least.
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Why do these topics always speed up right before the end?
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State's rights are great, like when a state poisoned an entire city.
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On Stranger Tides: 6.8
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3 > 2 > 1 > 4
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