Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Fetch, Brock Lesnar and Leon Kennedy vs. Kirby, Sora and Booker deWitt

(+) Yeah! (+)

Even if it is just a missle but it still takes takeoff time and they will be shot at by Leon and Fetch and shot out of the sky.
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I think Sora v. Fetch is a decent fight that Sora ultimately wins because his ability variety is better, his healing better, and Fetch leaves herself vulnerable when she has to recharge

I think Sora, Kirby, Booker and Songbird v. Fetch is a shutout
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p.s. literal beginning of the game she tanks a briefcase with explosives in it from like a 30 story building

u r welcome

also if she gets her hands on someone they're likely to be incinerated
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alright I'm bailing on this one then
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https://youtu.be/io5XNw2chgs?t=655

okay im done lata
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I did a Google converter to go 150 meters in 1 second is 335 mph. 335 MPH! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?@
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...This sure is something
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eaedwards6400 posted...

Even if it is just a missle but it still takes takeoff time and they will be shot at by Leon and Fetch and shot out of the sky.

Ok

Let me PLEASE make this clear

Leon cannot, in any conceivable way, shoot down Songbird

You are arguing Rocky Balboa v. Godzilla here

Stop it.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

I did a Google converter to go 150 meters in 1 second is 335 mph. 335 MPH! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?@

335 mph is casual speed for the Songbird

You call it's whistle and it could be in another city, it'll be there within 4 seconds.
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Let's ignore the songbird a moment.

Kirby Caladbolg

S O L O S

Songbird was developed by a civilization living in a flying city kept afloat by "quantum mechanics", created to be the protector of the daughter of the insane megalomaniacal fanatical ruler. It's strong.
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So uh the real question in this match is

All those suplexes onto clouds that are "destructible with a concentrated effort"

Does Kirby's team start with nothing to stand on, causing Booker and Sora to instantly fall to their deaths.
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Like we had this discussion before after the first Mercs ended.

General consensus was that Songbird is about a 6-tier. High 5 at least because certain terrains could limit him (this isn't one of them btw).

Think the Arwing, but not quite as agile
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NmvgRdB0kg

Master Form Sora is not a joke.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Fetch couldn't even beat Master Form Sora 1-1.

Sora is scary, yo.

See if you think that that's fine, but like...would she beat Sora if Sora is tired from fighting Songbird? Because Fetch turns into untouchable intangible neon and can sustain this for minutes on end. Songbird only aggros after her for 30 secs, afterward it's not gonna waste time chasing a neon spark and instead will tunnel on people it can harm. This is why this match isn't so automatic - Songbird is a threat to Sora and his team, moreso than Fetch.

(Brock and Leon are super dead tho, sorry eaed - the thing is the match is arguable even with just Fetch due to her unique toolset.)
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Lopen posted...

So uh the real question in this match is

All those suplexes onto clouds that are "destructible with a concentrated effort"

Does Kirby's team start with nothing to stand on, causing Booker and Sora to instantly fall to their deaths.

no
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I'd rather people at least be understanding that I'm fucking trying instead of the equivalent of laughing in my face.
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Lopen posted...

"destructible with a concentrated effort"

called it folks
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Fetch doesn't strike me the type to run from a fight or think super strategy mode.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

I'd rather people at least be understanding that I'm fucking trying instead of the equivalent of laughing in my face.

Then please watch the video of the Songbird I linked and stop trying to argue "it gets shot down" and "it can't go 100 mph" and "Fetch can fire Singularity at the start of the match despite the fact that it needs to charge over time"
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concerted whatever

All those suplexes count as either man
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Fetch doesn't strike me the type to run from a fight or think super strategy mode.

She's kinda cocky yeah. I need to see personality arguments more than Songbird dehypes here.
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I mean we get that you're trying, but you just need to realize that this is not a literal bird. It is basically a subsonic flying megatank.
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uhhh her entire boss fight is running away from delsin

her entire segment...is running away from delsin
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https://youtu.be/PM2xSa0WtYg?t=145

wrong time stamp
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There is a major issue here with the whole "this isn't how abilites work." You mean to tell me that lesnar is doing all of these suplexes then they are suddenly lifted off the ground onto the clouds and separated by 150 meters. That doesn't make sense. If this is truly an FMV sequence Brock has already suplexed these people on these clouds and the clouds should collapsed with Brock on them. It doesn't make sense that Brock suplexes them and then the clouds appear and the battle begins. This is flawed logic.
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I think the "that's not how abilities work" argument is dumb

There's an environment right there. There's nothing in the write-up that should say I ignore the bold's interaction with the environment whatsoever.
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This is what Songbird does by accident

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greengravy294 posted...

uhhh her entire boss fight is running away from delsin

her entire segment...is running away from delsin

to be fair that's more angst and trying to escape confrontation than a battle plan
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Lopen posted...

I think the "that's not how abilities work" argument is dumb

There's an environment right there. There's nothing in the write-up that should say I ignore the bold's interaction with the environment whatsoever.

If nothing else Sora doesn't strike me at the type to fall to his death.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

You mean to tell me that lesnar is doing all of these suplexes then they are suddenly lifted off the ground onto the clouds and separated by 150 meters. That doesn't make sense.

Yes. Welcome to Mercs.
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Then why does the prebattle phase exist? Why do we go through that entire thing? At this point those abilites are useless because the voters are completely ignoring those actions and just picking based on nothimg else.
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Sora can glide and can probably tech cancel out of the prone position mid air too.

Can't outright fly, however. Kinda depends on the probable distribution of clouds whether he'd fall to his death. Booker is 100% dead though.
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Also, as someone who's played the Kirby games, the clouds in Bubbly Clouds aren't really destructible. Like, all the fighters can stand on them. They're solid.

Now like, that's not to say Arwing couldn't go through them, but they're definitely strong enough to fight on and slam things into, as shown by the Kirby games.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

Then why does the prebattle phase exist? Why do we go through that entire thing? At this point those abilites are useless because the voters are completely ignoring those actions and just picking based on nothimg else.

They take the damage from the attack. Says so specifically in the bold. Doesn't say "they start the match being slammed into the ground"

and again, it's irrelevant because the clouds don't break like that
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Lopen posted...

I think the "that's not how abilities work" argument is dumb

There's an environment right there. There's nothing in the write-up that should say I ignore the bold's interaction with the environment whatsoever.

If nothing else Sora doesn't strike me at the type to fall to his death.

If Sora falls sufficiently below cloud level he is totally donezo. Glide doesn't let him gain air, only maintain his surface level - eventually he'd fall down. I would totally respect Dream Drop Distance Sora to gain air tho - just a situation where his old-ass writeup lets him down.

(Now if somebody tries to engage him yyyyeah he would totally use them to gain air and climb back up, but I'm assuming people aren't that dumb)

eaedwards6400 posted...

There is a major issue here with the whole "this isn't how abilites work." You mean to tell me that lesnar is doing all of these suplexes then they are suddenly lifted off the ground onto the clouds and separated by 150 meters. That doesn't make sense. If this is truly an FMV sequence Brock has already suplexed these people on these clouds and the clouds should collapsed with Brock on them. It doesn't make sense that Brock suplexes them and then the clouds appear and the battle begins. This is flawed logic.

To clarify, generally abilities like Brock's resolve on 'moment 0' of the battle

Like, imagine everybody gets teleported into position to the battlefield, then suddenly before anyone can do ANYTHING, time freezes, and while time is frozen, Brock goes and suplexes everybody the appropriate number of times and then goes back to his starting spot, in the same position he was in. Then the match starts with the enemy team reeling. It's possible the clouds are destructible, but Brock wouldn't be killed by them regardless because time's frozen while abilities resolve at 'the start of battle'.
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But when time resumes the enemy takes damage. Wouldn't the terrain take damage as well. If this happened at Monday Night RAW Brock did a superplex to the big show in this frozen period wouldn't the ring still collapse?
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Lopen posted...

So uh the real question in this match is

All those suplexes onto clouds that are "destructible with a concentrated effort"

Does Kirby's team start with nothing to stand on, causing Booker and Sora to instantly fall to their deaths.

abilities don't do splash damage though

I think it's even in Kan's match conventions
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eaedwards6400 posted...

But when time resumes the enemy takes damage. Wouldn't the terrain take damage as well. If this happened at Monday Night RAW Brock did a superplex to the big show in this frozen period wouldn't the ring still collapse?

Totally! I think it's at least plausible that the cloud collapses, because Brock's strength isn't 'normal human Brock Lesnar' but rather a very roided form that causes lava to sprout wherever he slams a bitch down. But voters need to be sold on that. Leader word is not gospel, you need to present a compelling case to get people to buy what you're selling.
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Btw, Sora doesn't have glide in KH2FM+ because he doesn't have Final form without getting final form to master he cannot learn get the superglide ability.
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By the way, in that video Sora is shown gaining air <_<
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Drakeryn posted...

Lopen posted...

So uh the real question in this match is

All those suplexes onto clouds that are "destructible with a concentrated effort"

Does Kirby's team start with nothing to stand on, causing Booker and Sora to instantly fall to their deaths.

abilities don't do splash damage though

I think it's even in Kan's match conventions

They don't splash onto nearby mercs. This is the convention:

-No matter how incongruous it might be, damaging abilities only damage the specific mercenaries targeted with them and nobody else, unless stated otherwise.

Whether it works on the terrain or not is interp, and it's a reasonable interp thing to discuss.
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Just to be clear, Brock destroys surfaces that probably would not be called "destructible with a concerted effort" in WWE Immortals with his slams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEg0phPur8g

That starting cloud is so done.

Also if it makes you feel better eaed I argued for the destructible clouds thing without even reading your arguments and I've played and voted in more mercs topics than probably everyone in here saying you don't know what you're talking about combined (before Drak said anything that is-- stupid Drak) so yeah.

Like, there are things in abilities that are "understood." For instance if someone shot a big attack at one guy on a team the other guys on the team wouldn't be hit by splash damage. If someone used a melee move on the enemy, they don't start adjacent unless the ability says so. But the terrain existing in a vacuum doesn't exactly have much weight behind it-- people just don't want these suplexes doing more than the damage stated because it shatters their world view and the ability suddenly becomes "overpowered."

Easy solution? Don't pick freakin destructible cloud level if you're going to get thrown to the ground hard five times at the beginning of the fight.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

Then why does the prebattle phase exist? Why do we go through that entire thing? At this point those abilites are useless because the voters are completely ignoring those actions and just picking based on nothimg else.

Like, okay. Let's assume for a moment it destroys the clouds.

Kirby survives through float. Sora survives through glide. Booker probably dies.

Ok, so, that's Kirby and Sora VS Leon, Brock and Fetch. Leon and Brock are basically fodder and don't matter at all to the match. So now we've got Song Bird VS Sora, Fetch and Kirby.

Personally I feel a Kirbaladbolg would probably take down/injure Songbird enough, but removing him from the equation because no one will ever respect Sora. We've got a 3 way of Sora, Fetch and Songbird. Personally outta the three I respect dodgetank-self healing-blender Sora.

I wanna argue this cloud thing more.

Here is from the Kirby wiki that Johnbobb shared.

Also, any objects in the way of any throw from the Suplex ability will instantly be destroyed or damaged.

In Kirby world, why wouldn't Brock's suplex destroy the clouds they are standing on?
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Sora can't glide. Based off the description shared he doesn't have Final form. You cannot learn glide without final form.
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Personally I feel a Kirbaladbolg would probably take down/injure Songbird enough, but removing him from the equation because no one will ever respect Sora. We've got a 3 way of Sora, Fetch and Songbird. Personally outta the three I respect dodgetank-self healing-blender Sora.

Fetch has homing attacks, bullet time, and can also teleport to strike dudes (+ has superspeed)

like I'm a total Sora homer, but everybody is just completely ignoring Fetch and it's fuckin dumb. She's really good you guys.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

Sora can't glide. Based off the description shared he doesn't have Final form. You cannot learn glide without final form.

Don't get cute.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

But when time resumes the enemy takes damage. Wouldn't the terrain take damage as well. If this happened at Monday Night RAW Brock did a superplex to the big show in this frozen period wouldn't the ring still collapse?

That's debatable I guess? I feel like most would say no, but it's Mercs so whatever, nothing makes sense

regardless, a Suplex isn't the kind of thing that would be strong enough to break them

See: Kirby literally suplexing people in his game
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How am I getting cute?

It says right in the character description Sora has Valor, Wisdom, Master, and Limit. He does not have Final.
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