Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Diablo/Alucard/Wily/ Nier/Sion/XDeath vs. Archer/Lilith/ Cloud/Sub-Zero

(+) Yeah! (+)

nah, i'm not being rhetorical or sarcastic. only joke made is spearman as a pointman. which in fairness works because it's 100% true. "hm, a dinky bridge? hey spear chucking motorcycle guy, cross that for us would ya?"

there's a bridge right before the reactor (see tiro's vid) so that's the only concern to the match for me. how big a distance can diablo teleport? alternatively, how good is his range game? mages often need to be closer than not, a typical advantage to guns there. wily's machine can fly yeah, nier making a makeshift bridge is... interesting. or catapulting people. he should have time to be able to perform either thanks to airman too, that should provide reasonable protection against lilith's sniper fire.

it's mostly just a case of "how many can cross this safely." if they get close enough, in large enough numbers, they got a good shot. cloud's just one guy. alucard partially exists for me as "sub-zero can always stay irrelevant" because he's gonna die quick. the other side needs cloud and lilith to take out diablo + backup who will sac themselves first.


i don't mention sion much since i don't know the guy much. from what you've said, sounds like he's got some support abilities worth a damn though. that wall of souls sounds interesting for defense but i wonder if diablo can eat it for more power.
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http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Thornmail

this thing?
...normally i wouldn't consider it because 'reflect damage' is something i'd associate more for melee, though it does reflect magic damage back. so there's something to it there.

but not sure that matters enough. cloud could heal in a pinch.
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Sion's w passive is what makes him massively powerful end game, it eats the souls of his victims which increases his max health, which is why he synergises so well with Titanic Hydra (it does aoe damage based on your max health) and the soul walls explosion deals aoe damage based on his health too. It does however have to survive the initial 3 seconds of wind up without being popped before he can use it as an attack.

As for his overall passive, the resurrection thing, it basically turns him into a kind of zombie lich, his health drains at a static flat rate the second he gets up and he's given huge amounts of lifesteal and can activate an ability that gives him movement and attack speed for a few seconds. The cooldown on it is long enough for it not to be worth considering reusing though.
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Yeah the key thing about Thornmail is that it reflects the full undiluted damage of the attack back, BEFORE it takes into account any of the wearers resistances. Which is why it shits on ADCs. It does nothing versus magic attacks and such though and only provides armor. Spirits vis is usually the only magic resist you need because of his shield and the fact his max health scales, technically to infinity. So it's sustained damage that f's him rather than burst.
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Said passive also makes him do a flat % of an enemy's max HP per hit. I wanna say like 10% of the enemie's max HP per hit on top of whatever damage he'd normally do?
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It's been a while since I played him. I know that his attack and movement speed are static (aside from the buff he can grant himself, or Youmou's active if you build him AD and can't be used here anyway) I think he just gets a flat AD buff but I could be wrong. The lifesteal he gets is also static in that form, but it's so high anyway near him has to run for their little lives anyway.
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As there are two hours left, may I request those still considering cast votes soon? Don't mean to be pushy, I just like more votals in general. Just when ya have time. =)
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i'll probably vote towards the end.
depends on what happens in unrelated stuff.
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MenuWars posted...

It's been a while since I played him. I know that his attack and movement speed are static (aside from the buff he can grant himself, or Youmou's active if you build him AD and can't be used here anyway) I think he just gets a flat AD buff but I could be wrong. The lifesteal he gets is also static in that form, but it's so high anyway near him has to run for their little lives anyway.

No, it's an onhit effect that deals 10% max HP as physical damage (so mitigated by armor). Lifesteal is 100% and includes onhits which yeah, is ridiculous.
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The big factor here to me is how Archer reacts to all his stuff missing. I honestly think with his ego he's more likely to go in, running under the assumption of ' my range is missing but melee might work ' than support his team which could prove disastrous for him since he can't connect with attacks whatsoever.
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I kinda feel like archer probably doesnt die anyway
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counterpoint: exdeath is on that side.
you wouldn't think he's gonna melee the guy first?
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Lopen posted...

The big factor here to me is how Archer reacts to all his stuff missing. I honestly think with his ego he's more likely to go in, running under the assumption of ' my range is missing but melee might work ' than support his team which could prove disastrous for him since he can't connect with attacks whatsoever.

I buy this under the assumption he isn't made aware of what is happening to him. You miss with range, go for melee is the obvious answer to most characters with a forte in it. If it was Yuna or someone sure she falls back to support but here it doesn't make as much sense.
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I'm not entirely sure how the frozen solid thing works, that's a fair point. Can he still be killed whilst frozen solid... or is he literally just an immovable block of ice for 30 seconds?
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does it really matter?
he'll totally melee the guy first.

then whiff completely going 'buh?'
so he'll switch to range and... amusingly might kill sub-zero accidentally.
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Oh, yeah. Frozen X-Death is a good litmus test to sanity check him, to at least not rush in on Diablo.
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It kinda does matter whether X Death's killable whilst frozen or not because if noone else is damaging him, it might in fact lower his sanity to assume that's why it felt like he was missing rather than go... oh okay there's something wrong with me here.
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Although the thing with X-Death that's still gonna be a mindscrew. I don't know if it's a direct assumption of " I can't hit this guy so I can't hit anyone " so he probably wastes a lot of time shooting at the remainder of the enemy team till he realizes to swap ports.

Probably takes Kaladbolg straight out of his arsenal as that seems like a good opener and he can't trace that willy nilly, but it's gonna miss. Maybe even fatigues him for the main fight assuming he lasts 40 seconds, which he probably does
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def agree there. he'd pull out that NP figuring "even if the direct contact isn't enough, the AOE should work."

and then it won't. which is part of why it's entirely possible Subby dies accidentally.
though it'll be a while before they meet so he should be fine. attackers have a lot of traveling to do to even get to the building of the terrain. they ain't meeting for at least 20m.
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I'm picturing Archer missing X-Death wildly, getting pissed, then Subby walking over to do his Ice Breaker fatality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLj4v-NP47A

"Idiot."
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Well I don't think Archer would Kaladbolg vs frozen X-Death that'd be excessive (and if he does killing Lilith or Cloud would be possible too)

Upon meeting the enemy team, though? He's still got 40 seconds to go and I'd be surprised to see him not try for the AOE at that point
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCemXVoEPD8
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OK, so after thinking about this one for a while...

Team Nier.

The way I see it, even with Sion not being a giant (my bad there guys), There's just too many capable people on the other side for this to be that much of a contest. Let's say X-Death dies without doing anything, which I think is reasonable. You have Lilith, Cloud and Subs vs Diablo, Alucard, Wily, Nier, Sion and Airman. Diablo vs Lilith is a nightmare mode matchup for her because he's real hard to shake off and her ability to defend herself from him isn't awesome, and if instead Diablo goes after Cloud, that takes Cloud out of bodyguarding her, leaving Nier, Alucard and Wily free to chase Lilith while Subs has an ultimate duel of ultimate destiny with Cutman and Sion. I don't see the smaller team surviving very long in this situation, which means eventually you get Archer vs a mostly fully healthy team. He's super good, but I don't think he can solo, especially if he's burnt Caladbolg before time on the debuff is up. Just too many dudes who are hard to kite in a location where the spaces to run away to will eventually be exhausted. It's a close, hard-fought battle, but I feel like Team Diablo eventually pulls it off.
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Just a couple final points as we're getting into the last stretch here. Thanks for everyone who has stuck with this 'what is Sion':

- The Dark Lance is probably the best damn projectile either team could give. Even if it misses, it would divide, and would be exceptionally bad news for Lilith. Additionally, it's a pinning weapon.

-Grimoire Weiss is a separate entity from Nier and is capable of starting a spell charge whilst Nier is doing other things. Definitely shown when he goes from 'no charge' to 'full charge' during boss fights, where Nier is super focused on combat and Weiss uses his body as a conduit.

-If everyone dies in a massive avalanche of death, Wily survives because the Wily Machine essentially abandons its outer shell for a flying version that is non-Wily Capsule.

-Dr. Wily is a ninja so he can escape any problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZiSaOHlUdk

Here's a smoke bomb. That can KO robots. DO YOU KNOW OF ROBOT-KO'ING SMOKE?

WILYTECH
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- It's pretty likely that Archer tries sniping the enemy team from afar, which I would count as "meeting" the team in battle (he's in active confrontation with all of them). So that runs down the timer.
- Even if you don't see it that way, Archer isn't dying in 40 seconds, especially hasted Archer vs. slag'd enemies.
- Cloud is extremely capable backup, especially factoring in terrain and buffs (his own + reinforcement from Archer).
- I buy Kamek's argument about Alucard being able to see invisible Lilith, but I still think that due to superior range she gets in some hits before the enemy big boy is in range to counter. Being defender on this terrain and being able to abuse range is pretty good.

Team Archer
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If only Sion was the size of a skyscraper, he'd be able to stop Archer.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf9KyyrnhQ0

gg
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eh, i don't think he needs to be. overall i think the numbers advantage and slight quirks with that team should avoid death by Lilith, which then should allow papa Nier, Alucard, and Diablo to beat Cloud, at which point Archer's screwed because they never killed Diablo.

basically numbers + quirky stuff.
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