Current Events > Military the newest victim of transgender political correctness

(+) Yeah! (+)

The force-wide presentation sheds quite a bit of light on the implications of the rule change on transgender service members. The policy prioritizes subjective feelings over combat-readiness and inverts military order by placing the needs of individuals over the well-being of their units.

The policy allows transgender soldiers to switch their “gender marker” in the Army’s personnel database without undergoing sex reassignment surgery or any other physical changes.

For a soldier to officially change gender requires only some paperwork. A military doctor or civilian medical professional must certify that the transgender person has achieved “stability in the preferred gender” and the soldier must change the gender designation on the soldier’s passport or birth certificate. From that point on, the transgender soldier is “expected to adhere to all military standards associated with their gender,” and “use the billeting, bathroom and shower facilities” of their new gender.

For example, “Vignette Four” of the training module presents the following scenario: “following her transition from male to female (which did not include sex reassignment surgery) and gender marker change in DEERS [DEERS is the military’s personnel database], a transgender Soldier begins using female barracks, bathroom and shower facilities. Because she did not undergo a surgical change, the Soldier still has male genitalia.”

How should troops respond? “Soldiers must accept living and working conditions that are often austere, primitive, and characterized by little or no privacy.”

Read the whole thing:
http://thefederalist.com/2017/07/05/new-army-training-tells-female-soldiers-put-naked-men-showers/
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Why is it only on the internet you ever hear about this stupid gender shit? It's like it doesn't exist in real life.
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As important as privacy and respect are, the biggest problem with the policy is its effect on the military’s core purpose of battle readiness. For example, under the policy, a male infantryman who cannot meet the bare minimum requirement of 42 pushups and is therefore considered a liability in combat can switch his “gender marker” to female and suddenly be qualified. Even though he retains the exact same physical characteristics, and can do only 19 push-ups, he will now be a combat-ready female infantry soldier, eligible to hold the exact same role in his former unit.

The lesson plan is explicit on this point: “for policies and standards that apply differently to Soldiers according to gender, the Army recognizes a Soldier’s gender by the Soldier’s gender marker in the Defense Enrollment Eligibility Reporting Systems (DEERS).”

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Haven't had this briefing yet. I'm sure it's coming.
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Wait, 42 pushups is combat ready? And females only need 19? What even are those numbers?!
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I think if they're going to be fighting and dying for the country, we could at least respect their wishes in regards to their gender.
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Flasbangs posted...

Why is it only on the internet you ever hear about this stupid gender shit? It's like it doesn't exist in real life.

A very vocal minority with a platform, the internet, that allows them to be heard.
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LightHawKnight posted...

Wait, 42 pushups is combat ready? And females only need 19? What even are those numbers?!

My old female Sergeant from my conscription was denied a tour in Afghanistan because no squad really trusts females that takes the easy way. It's not about sexism, it's about trusting the soldier by your side being able to drag you out of a shitty situation if it's needed.
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For a soldier to officially change gender requires only some paperwork. A military doctor or civilian medical professional must certify that the transgender person has achieved “stability in the preferred gender” and the soldier must change the gender designation on the soldier’s passport or birth certificate. From that point on, the transgender soldier is “expected to adhere to all military standards associated with their gender,” and “use the billeting, bathroom and shower facilities” of their new gender.

So... almost no one is going to take advantage of this and the boogeyman dies, while the <1% of men who are indeed trans will begin presenting themselves as women in every moment of waking life (or females as dudes).

~

The only umbrage is that a female has different physical requirements to be considered combat ready, but that's an auxiliary issue that shouldn't be conflated with this one.
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So this will be the excuse when Republicans get involved in another war they don't win?
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Flasbangs posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Wait, 42 pushups is combat ready? And females only need 19? What even are those numbers?!

My old female Sergeant from my conscription was denied a tour in Afghanistan because no squad really trusts females that takes the easy way. It's not about sexism, it's about trusting the soldier by your side being able to drag you out of a shitty situation if it's needed.

What does that have to do with those arbitrary numbers? Hell, a fit adult male should be able to do more than 42 pushups as well...
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that website is lulzy

LightHawKnight posted...

Wait, 42 pushups is combat ready? And females only need 19? What even are those numbers?!

Those are the minimum for 18 year old male and female Soldiers. The difference is a source of contention especially when the minimum for males is the max for females.
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philsov posted...

The only umbrage is that a female has different physical requirements to be considered combat ready.

A "combat ready woman" in the military will still see far less combat than the average man as they'll be assigned different positions / roles.

Anyway, despite this, a lot of women in the military strive to meet the requirements that men are held to. Most do far more than the minimum, and a few can meet the standard required for men.
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LightHawKnight posted...

Flasbangs posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Wait, 42 pushups is combat ready? And females only need 19? What even are those numbers?!

My old female Sergeant from my conscription was denied a tour in Afghanistan because no squad really trusts females that takes the easy way. It's not about sexism, it's about trusting the soldier by your side being able to drag you out of a shitty situation if it's needed.

What does that have to do with those arbitrary numbers? Hell, a fit adult male should be able to do more than 42 pushups as well...

Those arbitrary numbers really just represent the differences there is between males and females in the army.
I'm pretty sure that anyone who has been a soldier for more than 4 months can do hundreds of pushups.
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Flasbangs posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Flasbangs posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Wait, 42 pushups is combat ready? And females only need 19? What even are those numbers?!

My old female Sergeant from my conscription was denied a tour in Afghanistan because no squad really trusts females that takes the easy way. It's not about sexism, it's about trusting the soldier by your side being able to drag you out of a shitty situation if it's needed.

What does that have to do with those arbitrary numbers? Hell, a fit adult male should be able to do more than 42 pushups as well...

Those arbitrary numbers really just represent the differences there is between males and females in the army.
I'm pretty sure that anyone who has been a soldier for more than 4 months can do hundreds of pushups.

Those numbers are within a 2 minute time limit without resting. Proper pushups. Nobody it doing "Hundreds" within that time limit.
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Melonfarms posted...

Flasbangs posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Flasbangs posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Wait, 42 pushups is combat ready? And females only need 19? What even are those numbers?!

My old female Sergeant from my conscription was denied a tour in Afghanistan because no squad really trusts females that takes the easy way. It's not about sexism, it's about trusting the soldier by your side being able to drag you out of a shitty situation if it's needed.

What does that have to do with those arbitrary numbers? Hell, a fit adult male should be able to do more than 42 pushups as well...

Those arbitrary numbers really just represent the differences there is between males and females in the army.
I'm pretty sure that anyone who has been a soldier for more than 4 months can do hundreds of pushups.

Those numbers are within a 2 minute time limit without resting. Proper pushups. Nobody it doing "Hundreds" within that time limit.

Ah, within 2 minutes, makes more sense, but that number for females still seems way to low.
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LightHawKnight posted...

Melonfarms posted...

Flasbangs posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Flasbangs posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Wait, 42 pushups is combat ready? And females only need 19? What even are those numbers?!

My old female Sergeant from my conscription was denied a tour in Afghanistan because no squad really trusts females that takes the easy way. It's not about sexism, it's about trusting the soldier by your side being able to drag you out of a shitty situation if it's needed.

What does that have to do with those arbitrary numbers? Hell, a fit adult male should be able to do more than 42 pushups as well...

Those arbitrary numbers really just represent the differences there is between males and females in the army.
I'm pretty sure that anyone who has been a soldier for more than 4 months can do hundreds of pushups.

Those numbers are within a 2 minute time limit without resting. Proper pushups. Nobody it doing "Hundreds" within that time limit.

Ah, within 2 minutes, makes more sense, but that number for females still seems way to low.

Females and males are physically and psychologically different. This may shock some people.
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LightHawKnight posted...

Wait, 42 pushups is combat ready? And females only need 19? What even are those numbers?!

Pushups are only a part of a composite score that also includes a 2 mile run and sit-ups as well. The final combined score must be above a certain mark to be considered combat-ready. So if you can only manage to do the minimum of 42 pushups, then you better do extremely well on the other two tests in order to pass.
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Callixtus posted...

Females and males are physically and psychologically different. This may shock some people.

but the demands of the military on an individual soldier are not

IMO, if the female standard is sufficient to operate as a successful member of a unit and further fitness offers no improvement to unit success or casualty rates, the male standard should be reduced and more time made available to male soldiers to pursue other activities that would enhance success rates, such as marksmanship.
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Callixtus posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Melonfarms posted...

Flasbangs posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Flasbangs posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Wait, 42 pushups is combat ready? And females only need 19? What even are those numbers?!

My old female Sergeant from my conscription was denied a tour in Afghanistan because no squad really trusts females that takes the easy way. It's not about sexism, it's about trusting the soldier by your side being able to drag you out of a shitty situation if it's needed.

What does that have to do with those arbitrary numbers? Hell, a fit adult male should be able to do more than 42 pushups as well...

Those arbitrary numbers really just represent the differences there is between males and females in the army.
I'm pretty sure that anyone who has been a soldier for more than 4 months can do hundreds of pushups.

Those numbers are within a 2 minute time limit without resting. Proper pushups. Nobody it doing "Hundreds" within that time limit.

Ah, within 2 minutes, makes more sense, but that number for females still seems way to low.

Females and males are physically and psychologically different. This may shock some people.

Different yes, but not to the point where 19 and 42 are the differences for pushups.
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-yawn- What a great source you got there. Clearly this article is completely unbiased towards trans-rights/
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Darkman124 posted...

Callixtus posted...

Females and males are physically and psychologically different. This may shock some people.

but the demands of the military on an individual soldier are not

IMO, if the female standard is sufficient to operate as a successful member of a unit and further fitness offers no improvement to unit success or casualty rates, the male standard should be reduced and more time made available to male soldiers to pursue other activities that would enhance success rates, such as marksmanship.

I think the reasoning is that they give men the more physically demanding jobs because they have stronger builds.
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Paragon21XX posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Wait, 42 pushups is combat ready? And females only need 19? What even are those numbers?!

Pushups are only a part of a composite score that also includes a 2 mile run and sit-ups as well. The final combined score must be above a certain mark to be considered combat-ready. So if you can only manage to do the minimum of 42 pushups, then you better do extremely well on the other two tests in order to pass.

You only need the minimum in all three categories. You don't need to do extremely well in the other 2 if you only make the minimum in 1. There are tons of Soldiers who pass with the minimum.
Often Soldiers will stop at the minimum on an event they are strong in to save their strength for an event they are bad in.
Most Soldiers don't have trouble with fitness but for the ones that do it sucks.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

I think the reasoning is that they give men the more physically demanding jobs because they have stronger builds.

then we should define physical standards by soldier role and not by gender

i think the physical standards as a whole are rather hastily constructed out of a vague sense that a soldier should be "physically fit" on a qualitative level rather than a quantitative, statistically valid evaluation
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Darkman124 posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

I think the reasoning is that they give men the more physically demanding jobs because they have stronger builds.

then we should define physical standards by soldier role and not by gender

That stuff probably changes all the time though. I'm not an expert on the military, but I imagine your role can be changed based on current needs. So they test people in such a way to make sure they could perform adequately in any role they could possibly be assigned.
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Darkman124 posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

I think the reasoning is that they give men the more physically demanding jobs because they have stronger builds.

then we should define physical standards by soldier role and not by gender

That makes too much sense for the military.
The justification is the idea of one standard because everyone should be able to fight regardless of their occupation within the military.
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It's a dated system, yes. There has even been a push by higher ups to test based on your actual job requirements. I have a feeling g that this is an effort to help recruit the stereotypical nerds that are good with computer systems, since cyber warfare is the newest battlefront.
That being said, each military member needs to have a warrior mentality, an understanding that ensuring our way of life demands a level of professionalism in contributing to the way that we wage wars. If you look like a fat piece of shit in your uniform, you aren't taking the mission, or the lives of those you have sworn to protect seriously.
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As important as privacy and respect are, the biggest problem with the policy is its effect on the military’s core purpose of battle readiness. For example, under the policy, a male infantryman who cannot meet the bare minimum requirement of 42 pushups and is therefore considered a liability in combat can switch his “gender marker” to female and suddenly be qualified. Even though he retains the exact same physical characteristics, and can do only 19 push-ups, he will now be a combat-ready female infantry soldier, eligible to hold the exact same role in his former unit.

I guess I'm supposed to believe that this is an easy way to work the system, except...

A military doctor or civilian medical professional must certify that the transgender person has achieved “stability in the preferred gender” and the soldier must change the gender designation on the soldier’s passport or birth certificate.

...it's not like you can just do it on a whim
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Hellz yeah! So I can just say I'm a chick and then go in the female showers and stare at titties?
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How do they define "stability within gender"? What stops a random pervert from changing his gender so he can shower and bunk with women?
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I believe the stability line is referring to mental stability and their ability to truly live the life of their preferred gender. This should help with the situation of being female for a day because trainee Smith is just too fuckin fine.
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There will always be people who take advantage of a system but I don't see this as a huge thing. Could be really helpful for someone who is needs to transition and cant afford health care.
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PoopPotato posted...

I believe the stability line is referring to mental stability and their ability to truly live the life of their preferred gender. This should help with the situation of being female for a day because trainee Smith is just too fuckin fine.

Progressives have made clear there is no such thing as "truly living the life of a preferred gender". According to progressives the genders don't have any distinctions because distinctions are completely socially conditioned. Therefore liking dolls and makeup is not typically feminine and liking contact sports or weightlifting is not typically masculine. The only the distinction between man and woman is a subjective evaluation that has no characteristics of its own.
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Melonfarms posted...

There will always be people who take advantage of a system but I don't see this as a huge thing. Could be really helpful for someone who is needs to transition and cant afford health care.

So the taxpayer should have to bear the burden?
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Damien747 posted...

How do they define "stability within gender"? What stops a random pervert from changing his gender so he can shower and bunk with women?

Since it's all subjective, you just start identifying as a woman for X amount of time and then abra kadabra you are a woman.
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Callixtus posted...

Damien747 posted...

How do they define "stability within gender"? What stops a random pervert from changing his gender so he can shower and bunk with women?

Since it's all subjective, you just start identifying as a woman for X amount of time and then abra kadabra you are a woman.

You're just pulling that out of your ass, aren't you? You have no idea how the military doctors evaluate gender stability.
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Callixtus posted...

A military doctor or civilian medical professional must certify that the transgender person has achieved “stability in the preferred gender”

fair next.
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Flasbangs posted...

Why is it only on the internet you ever hear about this stupid gender shit? It's like it doesn't exist in real life.

LGBT people make up between 1 and 3 percent of the US population, according to studies. The majority of these people fall under the LGB aspect, so the number of trans people is absolutely sub 1% in the US. To go even further, trans people are not evenly distributed throughout the US (meaning that there are bound to be more trans people in, say, the Castro District rather than in rural Arkansas).

So when you see articles like this, it's just people with an agenda (on either side) trying to either show how tolerant they are or how deplorable society (aka LIBERALS) is. Reality is that trans people are just a small group of people who want to live their lives like everyone else
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Callixtus posted...

Damien747 posted...

How do they define "stability within gender"? What stops a random pervert from changing his gender so he can shower and bunk with women?

Since it's all subjective, you just start identifying as a woman for X amount of time and then abra kadabra you are a woman.

You're just pulling that out of your ass, aren't you? You have no idea how the military doctors evaluate gender stability.

No, I don't know exactly how the evaluate it. But there are no "tests". It is literally all based on subjective experience.
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Romulox28 posted...

Flasbangs posted...

Why is it only on the internet you ever hear about this stupid gender shit? It's like it doesn't exist in real life.

LGBT people make up between 1 and 3 percent of the US population, according to studies. The majority of these people fall under the LGB aspect, so the number of trans people is absolutely sub 1% in the US. To go even further, trans people are not evenly distributed throughout the US (meaning that there are bound to be more trans people in, say, the Castro District rather than in rural Arkansas).

So when you see articles like this, it's just people with an agenda (on either side) trying to either show how tolerant they are or how deplorable society (aka LIBERALS) is. Reality is that trans people are just a small group of people who want to live their lives like everyone else

A small group of people shouldn't be able to redefine how an entire society defines manhood and womanhood, but that is exactly what we have done.

In the case of the military, this nonsense may end up reducing effectiveness and costing lives, just like the integration of women into the armed forces solely to please a political correctness-obsessed minority.
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Damien747 posted...

How do they define "stability within gender"? What stops a random pervert from changing his gender so he can shower and bunk with women?

Well for starters, would-be rapists wouldn't have to go that far. The military has disgustingly frequent sexual assault, and everything possible is done to cover it up. So perverts have much easier ways to take advantage of women in the military with less consequence.
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Callixtus posted...

In the case of the military, this nonsense may end up reducing effectiveness and costing lives, just like the integration of women into the armed forces solely to please a political correctness-obsessed minority.

It won't actually. They give men and women different jobs, a transwoman wouldn't be given a man's job.
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Callixtus posted...

Melonfarms posted...

There will always be people who take advantage of a system but I don't see this as a huge thing. Could be really helpful for someone who is needs to transition and cant afford health care.

So the taxpayer should have to bear the burden?

You're already paying for Soldier healthcare. You paid for my eye surgery and so did I. I doubt the cost would be substantial and it would train doctors for future patients who can actually sue them if they mess up.
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Anyone who wants to serve our country and fight for the rights and freedoms of Americans should be allowed to.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

I think if they're going to be fighting and dying for the country, we could at least respect their wishes in regards to their gender.

Most hilarious post in this topic

Callixtus posted...

No, I don't know exactly how the evaluate it. But there are no "tests". It is literally all based on subjective experience.

Pretty much. You need to convince a qualified professional that you're transgender in earnest to the point of living as the opposite gender for the foreseeable future, including changing your gender on all legal documentation.

Which is way more effort than Johnny "can't do pushups and wants to shower with girls" Doughboy will ever do.
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Callixtus posted...

A small group of people shouldn't be able to redefine how an entire society defines manhood and womanhood, but that is exactly what we have done. In the case of the military, this nonsense may end up reducing effectiveness and costing lives, just like the integration of women into the armed forces solely to please a political correctness-obsessed minority.

You honestly don't think letting women serve is a good thing? My goodness, you're a nutcake.
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It is caused by a misshapen or irregular hypothalamus. Stop trying to use the military as a social experiment. Tax payers should not pay for these people with misshapen hypothalamuses to have gender changes