Poll of the Day > Donald Trump Jr. was stupid enough to post proof of himself committing a felony.

(+) Yeah! (+)

The President's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager went to a meeting after being told that it was to get information from the Russian government in support of the President's campaign. That is at last two different felonies. Donald Jr. posted these emails on Twitter, because I guess he's really that stupid.

There's no possible way the President was not aware of that meeting, which makes him complicit. I don't know if that's a felony, though.

Edit: Oh yeah. People like sources. Here are a couple.

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/11/536648394/emails-show-trump-jr-knew-russia-was-working-to-support-trump-campaign

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40574564

inb4 trump defender brigade
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He did nothing wrong.
In after the guy above me.
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The New York Times had the emails and was going to publish them today. My guess is Jr posted them to give the illusion of transparency and cooperation, and try to spin it like it was no big deal.

Those emails would've been out there today regardless.
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Far-Queue posted...

Those emails would've been out there today regardless.

Correct. It does sound like the NYT was going to release them. Trump supporters would have called that lies, but at least the legal ramifications would still be there. By posting it himself, literally nobody can deny that Donald Jr. seriously broke the law. And with his son, son-in-law, and campaign manager present, nobody can seriously believe the President didn't know about this.

SushiSquid posted...

nobody can seriously believe the President didn't know about this.

I don't think that's going to stop most of Trump's supporters. Common sense inferences aren't really their strong suit.
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GrimCyclone posted...

He did nothing wrong.
In after the guy above me.

He tried to collude.
He just failed because he's an idiot. Just like president grandpa.

Trump's advisors are urging him not to speak/tweet about this lol

Any guesses how long before he tweets something about this?
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SushiSquid posted...

nobody can seriously believe the President didn't know about this.

It's not a matter of what people believe. It's a matter of what you can prove.

Everyone believed OJ was a murderer, but they couldn't prove it. That's the problem.
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mastermix3000 posted...

inb4 trump defender brigade

the "inb4" just gave me the hardest attack of nostalgia ever.
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SushiSquid posted...

Donald Jr. posted these emails on Twitter, because I guess he's really that stupid.

Given that we never saw documents linking Hillary to Russia -- ie, the thing actually discussed in the email -- it's apparent that he never took any offer.

SushiSquid posted...

There's no possible way the President was not aware of that meeting, which makes him complicit. I don't know if that's a felony, though.

lolwut? That's overly presumptive.

Far-Queue posted...

The New York Times had the emails and was going to publish them today. My guess is Jr posted them to give the illusion of transparency and cooperation, and try to spin it like it was no big deal.

Those emails would've been out there today regardless.

Did they actually have the emails? I thought they just had the anonymous sources telling them the contents.

adjl posted...

SushiSquid posted...

nobody can seriously believe the President didn't know about this.

I don't think that's going to stop most of Trump's supporters. Common sense inferences aren't really their strong suit.

Once again, I think you're overestimating the communication in the Trump camp. But insane Trump critics will allege that Trump has zero control over his campaign and everything is going wild then in the next breath insist that Trump controls every tiny detail and single-handedly masterminds everything. But sure, let's pretend that Trump was 100% in the loop on everything despite the fact he's the only major name not copied on that email.
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Leave it to Zeus to look at 100% certain, damning evidence and go, "Nah."

SushiSquid posted...

Leave it to Zeus to look at 100% certain, damning evidence and go, "Nah."

Leave it to Sushi to erroneously claim that something is 100% certain, damning evidence despite the fact we never even saw any documents detailing the Clintons' business dealings in Russia which was literally the whole point of the meeting.
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"This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump."

"If it's what you say," Trump Jr. replied, "I love it."

You're aware that just the attempt at collusion is illegal, right? That just the intent at receiving material aid from a foreign government for a political campaign is illegal? This is absolutely, 100% a violation of several laws. You don't get to argue that dogs are cats on this one. And as for Trump having no control over his own campaign, seriously? His son, son-in-law, and campaign manager went, and you still don't think the President knew about it? The fuck out of here with that bullshit.

But Zeus is totally not a Trump supporter and is totally a #LeftLeaningCentrist!
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Say what you will about Zeus' political views, I'm still waiting on a reply from him to our discussion about sleep powder and my "biased" polls.
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SushiSquid posted...

"This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump."

"If it's what you say," Trump Jr. replied, "I love it."

You're aware that just the attempt at collusion is illegal, right? That just the intent at receiving material aid from a foreign government for a political campaign is illegal? This is absolutely, 100% a violation of several laws. You don't get to argue that dogs are cats on this one. And as for Trump having no control over his own campaign, seriously? His son, son-in-law, and campaign manager went, and you still don't think the President knew about it? The fuck out of here with that bullshit.

You're aware that you're not a legal expert, right? But you know who are legal experts? The lawyers that Jr would have talked to before releasing anything. Otherwise this is just one long continuation of your crazy claims, such as the ones which persisted even after the FBI cleared Michael Flynn.

Equally humorous, as already mentioned, the same guys complained all election season that Trump's campaign was completely out of control and he had no idea what was going on in his own camp have turned around and said, "He knows everything that goes on and would have given his blessing beforehand, been appraised throughout the meeting, etc!"

Finally, when nothing happens here either -- because this is the umpteenth time you guys have done this, which is getting more tired than your spiritual counterpart Alex Jones insisting "THIS time we have the thing that'll put Hillary in prison!" -- you're going to continue to insist illegal wrongdoing despite the actual legal bodies finding none.

But sure, a meeting arranged by a Russian pop star with Donald's son where apparently nothing was exchanged is going to be what brings down down Trump. #EyeRoll
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Congratulations on continuing to deflect. You're getting better at it.

Zeus posted...

You're aware that you're not a legal expert, right?

Cool and neither are you, but actual legal experts are saying it's pretty damning. That's why this is such big news. Here's one of the laws it definitely violated.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20

Zeus posted...

But sure, a meeting arranged by a Russian pop star with Donald's son where apparently nothing was exchanged is going to be what brings down down Trump.

Please point out where I ever said that in this topic. I have said before that Trump deserves to be impeached. I don't think that will happen with a Republican Congress, even after this event.

Again, your comment is a deflection. That doesn't mean it's incorrect, though. This is still not exactly a smoking gun against the President himself.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40560800

Maxtrollduke posted...

the "inb4" just gave me the hardest attack of nostalgia ever.

Just don't say that other "word" because it's a no no "word".

SushiSquid posted...

Congratulations on continuing to deflect. You're getting better at it.

Congrats at continuing to shitpost, you're an absolute pro.

SushiSquid posted...

Cool but actual legal experts are saying it's pretty damning. Here's one of the laws it definitely violated.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20

You're missing a step there, which is actually having a legal expert claim that it violates that provision.

SushiSquid posted...

Please point out where I ever said that in this topic. I have said before that Trump deserves to be impeached. I don't think that will happen with a Republican Congress, even after this event.

Given that you're literally the first person to say the word "impeach"... However, you did openly suggest that the president was completely complicit, a completely unsubstantiated claim.

SushiSquid posted...

Again, your comment is a deflection. That doesn't mean it's incorrect, though. This is still not exactly a smoking gun against the President himself.

It's funny that you focus on the two or three portions that you feel are deflections rather than the bulk of my response. One might almost say that you're trying to deflect actual criticisms by focusing on minutia...

SushiSquid posted...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40560800

You could probably summarize much of that article -- which partly relies on WaPo quotes -- as throwing a lot of shit at something and seeing what sticks, which has pretty much been the approach of Trump critics.
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Zeus posted...

You could probably summarize much of that article -- which partly relies on WaPo quotes -- as throwing a lot of shit at something and seeing what sticks, which has pretty much been the approach of Trump critics.

Did you just... did you just argue against something I was using to show that you were right about something? I can't even... what?

I didn't argue against the rest of your post because you were arguing against me and against arguments I didn't make. Ad hominem and strawman bullshit isn't worth the effort.

I am still in shock that less than half of Americans thought it was smart to vote for Trump. I'm still waiting for an intelligent reason(s) as to why that was such a great idea.
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Any bad news is fake news in Zeus' world, or in this case, shitposting.
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plagamesforeva posted...

I am still in shock that less than half of Americans thought it was smart to vote for Trump. I'm still waiting for an intelligent reason(s) as to why that was such a great idea.

There wasn't an intelligent reason to vote for either of your candidates.
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mastermix3000 posted...

inb4 trump defender brigade

inb4 clinton supporters who can't accept the loss
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Smarkil posted...

SushiSquid posted...

nobody can seriously believe the President didn't know about this.

It's not a matter of what people believe. It's a matter of what you can prove.

Everyone believed OJ was a murderer, but they couldn't prove it. That's the problem.

This.

There's a whole lot of smoke here, but while this seems incredibly damning of Donald Jr., I see nothing that unarguably proves Trump Sr.'s involvement. Hell, given that Donald is notoriously gunshy around micromanaging and studying minutiae I'd actually probably give him more of a benefit of the doubt than I would most other politicians in this scenario (still think it's very likely that he knew all the same, but it's premature to declare that he knew without a doubt).

Muffinz0rz posted...

Say what you will about Zeus' political views, I'm still waiting on a reply from him to our discussion about sleep powder and my "biased" polls.

Don't hold your breath - he has a bit of a habit of abandoning topics if the discussion starts going against him.

Zeus posted...

You're aware that you're not a legal expert, right? But you know who are legal experts? The lawyers that Jr would have talked to before releasing anything.

Funny you should say that - Don Jr. recently retained a lawyer, but only *after* he'd already been talking and tweeting about this (and he immediately went dead silent afterwards - I'm guessing under legal advice).

Zeus posted...

Given that we never saw documents linking Hillary to Russia -- ie, the thing actually discussed in the email -- it's apparent that he never took any offer.

He wouldn't have to. Conspiracy charges - and that's exactly what this entails - merely need to prove the intent to conspire with a foreign power in order to affect an election; they need not prove that that effort was successful or resulted in a material exchange of data. The e-mails show that Trump Jr., along with several high-ranking members of Trump's campaign team, accepted the meeting, even after learning that the individual they were meeting with was connected to the Russian government (described in the e-mail as a "Russian government attorney") and was supposedly in possession of damaging information regarding Clinton and her campaign (to which Don Jr. replied "If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer").

That's really, really damning.
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Something interesting which has been raised in light of these e-mails.

The day the meeting was going on, Trump gave a speech where he said, “I am going to give a major speech on probably Monday of next week and we’re going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the Clintons. I think you’re going to find it very informative and very, very interesting.”

Again, circumstantial, but it does lend weight to the notion that Trump was at least aware of this meeting.
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But her emails

Sometimes I worry about Zeus.. :/
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Nothing will come of this.
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Smarkil posted...

SushiSquid posted...

nobody can seriously believe the President didn't know about this.

It's not a matter of what people believe. It's a matter of what you can prove.

Everyone believed OJ was a murderer, but they couldn't prove it. That's the problem.

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

mastermix3000 posted...

inb4 trump defender brigade

inb4 clinton supporters who can't accept the loss

This has nothing to do with Clinton losing the election. What this has to do with is an election campaign attempting to dig up dirt on an opponent and getting help from a foreign country, which is illegal as fuck and is collusion.
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Yellow posted...

Nothing will come of this.

Not against President Trump but Jr and co. are in a whole heap of shit.
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KevinceKostner posted...

But obama

Erik_P posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

mastermix3000 posted...

inb4 trump defender brigade

inb4 clinton supporters who can't accept the loss

This has nothing to do with Clinton losing the election. What this has to do with is an election campaign attempting to dig up dirt on an opponent and getting help from a foreign country, which is illegal as fuck and is collusion.

And you're gonna be so disappointed when Trump still doesn't get impeached

Veedrock- posted...

Yellow posted...

Nothing will come of this.

Not against President Trump but Jr and co. are in a whole heap of shit.

No, no they aren't. Nothing you people have ever said about heaps of shit like this has ever come to pass. Trump and co will continue to win no matter what you say. I'm sorry you do not like them, but we do. We're fucking winning again, it's like the goddam 80's all over again, and goddamnit we're just poppin' bottles every night. It's a celebration.

Now sit back, order you a margarita or two and listen to some fucking Lionel Ritchie. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovo6zwv6DX4
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darkknight109 posted...

Something interesting which has been raised in light of these e-mails.

The day the meeting was going on, Trump gave a speech where he said, “I am going to give a major speech on probably Monday of next week and we’re going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the Clintons. I think you’re going to find it very informative and very, very interesting.”

Again, circumstantial, but it does lend weight to the notion that Trump was at least aware of this meeting.

Donald Jr. and Sr. also started tweeting about the emails for the first time on the same day as meeting the Russians (June 9, 2016). They tweeted within the same hour as each other.

https://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/741011714053902336

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/741007091947556864

It's great timing. tremendous. The best timing.

"Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father's candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email."

Oh for fun this is a lovely Jr. tweet too: https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/131091548266962944

I guess Donald Trump is not the stupidest Donald Trump.
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GrimCyclone posted...

Veedrock- posted...

Yellow posted...

Nothing will come of this.

Not against President Trump but Jr and co. are in a whole heap of shit.

No, no they aren't. Nothing you people have ever said about heaps of shit like this has ever come to pass. Trump and co will continue to win no matter what you say. I'm sorry you do not like them, but we do. We're fucking winning again, it's like the goddam 80's all over again, and goddamnit we're just poppin' bottles every night. It's a celebration.

Now sit back, order you a margarita or two and listen to some fucking Lionel Ritchie. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovo6zwv6DX4

It's a pretty sad commentary on the state of things that I honestly can't tell if this is supposed to be satire or not.
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It's hilarious watching Trump supporters try to spin this. In a matter of one weekend we went from there was no meeting, to "it was about adoption" to "I wasn't sure what it would be about" to "it was meaningless" to this. It's embarrassing. I'd imagine this is what it was like for Nixon supporters. It's gone full circle.
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SushiSquid posted...

Zeus posted...

You could probably summarize much of that article -- which partly relies on WaPo quotes -- as throwing a lot of shit at something and seeing what sticks, which has pretty much been the approach of Trump critics.

Did you just... did you just argue against something I was using to show that you were right about something? I can't even... what?

I didn't argue against the rest of your post because you were arguing against me and against arguments I didn't make. Ad hominem and strawman bullshit isn't worth the effort.

The argument you cited didn't really support or distract from what I said, although it implied wrongdoing in several places from what I saw when glancing over it.

faramir77 posted...

plagamesforeva posted...

I am still in shock that less than half of Americans thought it was smart to vote for Trump. I'm still waiting for an intelligent reason(s) as to why that was such a great idea.

There wasn't an intelligent reason to vote for either of your candidates.

It was really a no-win election all around. The only Democrat who seemed to make a lot of sense was Jim Webb, who dropped out first. None of the Republican candidates were thrilling but, out of all of them, Trump seemed to be the only one actually concerned about certain economic and foreign issues. The other candidates almost never seemed to address things like currency manipulation and -- out of everybody running -- Jim Webb was the only other person iirc who brought up China's illegal attempts to seize the South China seas without being prompted.

Of course, Trump's downside is not having deep connections within Washington which would help him get things done.

darkknight109 posted...

This.

There's a whole lot of smoke here, but while this seems incredibly damning of Donald Jr., I see nothing that unarguably proves Trump Sr.'s involvement. Hell, given that Donald is notoriously gunshy around micromanaging and studying minutiae I'd actually probably give him more of a benefit of the doubt than I would most other politicians in this scenario (still think it's very likely that he knew all the same, but it's premature to declare that he knew without a doubt).

The problem with the court of public opinion is how frequently it's wrong. People like to bring up OJ, yet they forget all of the times when public perception wasn't just wrong, but that wrong belief continues even long after the fact. Keep in mind that the 9/11 Truthers *still* exist. Some people continue to mention that Obama was born in Kenya (possibly including the current president). Hillary is credited with several murders, including the death of Vince Foster.

darkknight109 posted...

Funny you should say that - Don Jr. recently retained a lawyer, but only *after* he'd already been talking and tweeting about this (and he immediately went dead silent afterwards - I'm guessing under legal advice).

Source? Because the Trump family already *has* lawyers on retainer, in addition to the ones he has access to through his father's administration.
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darkknight109 posted...

He wouldn't have to. Conspiracy charges - and that's exactly what this entails - merely need to prove the intent to conspire with a foreign power in order to affect an election; they need not prove that that effort was successful or resulted in a material exchange of data. The e-mails show that Trump Jr., along with several high-ranking members of Trump's campaign team, accepted the meeting, even after learning that the individual they were meeting with was connected to the Russian government (described in the e-mail as a "Russian government attorney") and was supposedly in possession of damaging information regarding Clinton and her campaign (to which Don Jr. replied "If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer").

That's really, really damning.

By that logic, Hillary retaining a private investigator who worked with British, Russian, and other government officials would have been illegal yet not once was that used for the basis of a "LOCK HER UP!" chant.

And, as far as the cry-wolf allegations go, I'm still unimpressed by these speculative claims.
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darkknight109 posted...

GrimCyclone posted...

No, no they aren't. Nothing you people have ever said about heaps of shit like this has ever come to pass. Trump and co will continue to win no matter what you say. I'm sorry you do not like them, but we do. We're fucking winning again, it's like the goddam 80's all over again, and goddamnit we're just poppin' bottles every night. It's a celebration.

Now sit back, order you a margarita or two and listen to some fucking Lionel Ritchie. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovo6zwv6DX4

It's a pretty sad commentary on the state of things that I honestly can't tell if this is supposed to be satire or not.

From what I've seen of Trump supporter forums, I'd wager it's real. That's about how they talk and act.
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There isn't enough popcorn in the world to sit back and watch the traitorous Trump cultists try to squirm and wiggle their way to the new spin talking point. This would be hilarious if the fate of the country didn't hang in the balance.
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By that logic, Hillary retaining a private investigator who worked with British, Russian, and other government officials would have been illegal yet not once was that used for the basis of a "LOCK HER UP!" chant.

And, as far as the cry-wolf allegations go, I'm still unimpressed by these speculative claims.

Jr releases proof he was involved in a conspiracy and yet in Zeus' mind that's just speculation he did anything.

Poor guy has reached critical mass desperation levels of spin.
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Erik_P posted...

By that logic, Hillary retaining a private investigator who worked with British, Russian, and other government officials would have been illegal yet not once was that used for the basis of a "LOCK HER UP!" chant.

And, as far as the cry-wolf allegations go, I'm still unimpressed by these speculative claims.

Jr releases proof he was involved in a conspiracy and yet in Zeus' mind that's just speculation he did anything.

Poor guy has reached critical mass desperation levels of spin.

Once Trump is finally impeached, itll be entertaining to see how he'll explain that.
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Gotta love about Trump or Russia requires concrete, proven in a court of law evidence before folks can make a statement, yet the same folks demanding all the detailed, open info are the ones to buy into "I'm hearing" "Lots of people are saying" Birther BS, 6 million illegals stole the popular vote for Hillary, Obama wiretapped my home, PizzaGate, etc.
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Melon_Master posted...

Erik_P posted...

By that logic, Hillary retaining a private investigator who worked with British, Russian, and other government officials would have been illegal yet not once was that used for the basis of a "LOCK HER UP!" chant.

And, as far as the cry-wolf allegations go, I'm still unimpressed by these speculative claims.

Jr releases proof he was involved in a conspiracy and yet in Zeus' mind that's just speculation he did anything.

Poor guy has reached critical mass desperation levels of spin.

Once Trump is finally impeached, itll be entertaining to see how he'll explain that.

ahahahahahaha.
---

A timeline of related events (not my work) :

June 2016: Trump Jr. is contacted by somebody arranging a meeting with a Russian government attorney, and it's explicitly part of "Russia and it's government's support for Mr. Trump." Trump Jr. meets with the lawyer, along with Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort (the campaign manager).

March 2017(https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/08/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html): "Did I meet with people that are Russian? I'm sure, I'm sure I did. But none that were set up. None that I can think of at the moment. And certainly none that I was representing the campaign in any way, shape, or form."

July 8(https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/08/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html): NYT reports that in June 2016, Trump Jr. arranged a meeting between him, Kushner, and Manafort and a Kremlin-connected lawyer. Trump Jr. describes the meeting as "primarily about an adoption program."

July 8(http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/08/donald-trump-jr-and-jared-kushner-respond-to-meeting-with-russian-lawyer.html): Trump Jr. describes the meeting:

> “It was a short introductory meeting. I asked Jared and Paul to stop by. We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at that time and there was no follow-up,” said Donald Trump Jr. in a statement released to Fox News. “I was asked to attend the meeting by an acquaintance, but was not told the name of the person I would be meeting with beforehand.”

July 9(https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html): NYT reports that Trump Jr. was promised damaging information on Clinton before taking the meeting.

July 9 (https://twitter.com/elcush/status/884165485482221568/photo/1): Trump Jr. releases another statement, saying he was "asked to have a meeting . . . with an individual who I was told might have information helpful to the campaign." He says he "asked Jared and Paul to attend, but told them nothing of the substance."

July 10(https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-russia-email-candidacy.html): NYT reports that Trump Jr. received an email saying that the meeting was part of the Russian government's attempt to help his father's candidacy.

July 11(https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884751036614946816): Trump Jr. tweets: "Media & Dems are extremely invested in the Russia story. If this nonsense meeting is all they have after a yr, I understand the desperation!"

July 11: Actual email breaks, showing that: Trump Jr. lied about not having meetings that were set up with Russians, lied about not having meetings with Russians while representing the campaign, lied about the primary purpose of the meeting, and lied that Jared and Manafort didn't know about the substance of the meeting ahead of time.
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

Melon_Master posted...

Erik_P posted...

By that logic, Hillary retaining a private investigator who worked with British, Russian, and other government officials would have been illegal yet not once was that used for the basis of a "LOCK HER UP!" chant.

And, as far as the cry-wolf allegations go, I'm still unimpressed by these speculative claims.

Jr releases proof he was involved in a conspiracy and yet in Zeus' mind that's just speculation he did anything.

Poor guy has reached critical mass desperation levels of spin.

Once Trump is finally impeached, itll be entertaining to see how he'll explain that.

ahahahahahaha.

I saw you try and claim impeachment doesn't kick a person out of the presidency.
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Erik_P posted...

I saw you try and claim impeachment doesn't kick a person out of the presidency.

It doesn't. Impeachment just triggers a trial to see if the person being impeached should be removed from their office, or if another recourse is more proper.