Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Wonderful 100 Knuckles Fox Elma Sorey Char vs. Marisa Vic Viper Suguri

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Wonderful 100, Knuckles, Fox McCloud, Elma, Sorey, Dezel and Char Aznable have challenged Marisa Kirisame, Suguri and the Vic Viper to a fight! Location of the fight: Ascension City - A city ruined by a WMD attack, now barely holding on and empty, as seen in Bionic Commando 2009. Attackers will start on one of the office buildings in the first area, while defenders will start just outside the Central Records building.. Which side will win?

Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.
- The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427

Knuckles is as he appears in the Sonic games, an echidna who can glide along with his trademark strength, punching, and digging abilities. He has all of the knowledge and experience that comes from starring in Touhou: Great Fairy Wars, the Blazing Star Tag Style spell, and a copy of Marisa's broom, as well as a Tiny Wonder Mask courtesy of the Wonderful 100.

Char Aznable is as seen in XCOM: Enemy Within as a Colonel of class MEC and carrying endgame equipment as well as the Particle Cannon and Paladin suit. He also has the Secondary Heart gene mod. His weapons will self destruct upon leaving his possession.

Sorey is as he appears in Tales of Zestiria, with all orbs and talismans (though they buff only himself and his seraphim) and an endgame skill build. He enters the battle with 5 Blast Gauges and may armatize freely with his seraphim and The Wonderful 100 during the course of the battle, but armatization cannot be used to revive anyone. He does not have access to Siegfried.

Dezel is accompanying Sorey into battle. He is as he appears in Tales of Zestiria, with an endgame skill build. He will enter battle with 5 Blast Gauges.

Elma is as she is seen in Xenoblade Chronicles X in her mimeosome, a max level Full Metal Jaguar with all of her arts and skills fully upgraded. She has a Verus Cain skell, outfitted with its default Machine Gun, B-Claw, G Buster, SHD-Ray, Lasergun, and Grenade, along with a Beamsaber, Cracker-FL, Minigun, and Shield. She, Knuckles and the Wonderful 100 will all be under the effect of Blink for the first minute of battle.
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Fox McCloud is as he appears in the Star Fox series, piloting the fully upgraded Arwing in all-range mode as seen in Star Fox 64 from the nearest convenient location to his team. He has no bombs. He may leave the cockpit but will only have his Blaster from Star Fox: Assault if he does so.

The Wonderful 100 are as they appear in their on-foot Unlimited Form in The Wonderful 101, with Red, Blue, Green, Pink, Yellow, White, Black, Vorkken, Chewgi, Immorta, and 90 civilians that are equipped with Tiny Wonder Masks. They have all their techniques (except Hero Block), moves, upgrades, and custom blocks (except Ukemi). They don't have any additional Tiny Wonder Masks. They each have all of the knowledge and experience that comes from starring in Touhou: Great Fairy Wars, the Blazing Star Tag Style spell, and a copy of Marisa's broom.


~VS~

Marisa Kirisame is as she appears across the Touhou series, including official supplemental materials, with access to all of her attacks and abilities seen therein. All of Marisa's teammates (including herself) will be immune to friendly fire, no matter what. This benefit does not extend to the enemy team.

Suguri is as seen across the Suguri series, with access to all of her attacks and abilities, including her various Acceleration of Suguri movesets and her boss fight showings from Sora. She is equipped with every weapon in her arsenal, and may switch between them freely. Whenever Suguri participates in a match, the Sora version of Rendezvous will play loudly over the terrain.

The Vic Viper is it appears in Gradius III, equipped with the fully maxed out Type 1 set, as well as a Forcefield. It may switch between Laser and Double at will, but not use both at the same time. It does not have access to the Mega Crush.

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Now let's begin...for the sake of protecting everyone. FIGHT!
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@Eddv

The floor is yours. Here we go!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5zedzugaRA
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Knuckles is as he appears in the Sonic games, an echidna who can glide along with his trademark strength, punching, and digging abilities. He has all of the knowledge and experience that comes from starring in Touhou: Great Fairy Wars, the Blazing Star Tag Style spell, and a copy of Marisa's broom, as well as a Tiny Wonder Mask courtesy of the Wonderful 100.

this is the best possible Knuckles

is he invincible during Blazing Star Style Tag?
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suguri solos

The enemy team is really, really not prepared to handle this level of laser spam. Let's go over why quickly:

-One minute buffs are useless. Ascension City is massive, and most of a full city separates the teams here. There is simply not enough speed to get to the records building in a single minute - the enemy team would have to be going at Mach Tons to make it there and they aren't. They're only as fast as their slowest man.
-The Vic Viper has access to all its Options. In english, this means it's not one ship, it's multiple ships all loaded for bear with powerful laser beams and going at insane speeds, protected by defensive energy barriers. They have great anti-ground (and anti-dudes-below-them) weapons as a bonus that automatically fire while they shoot at whatever's ahead of them, too.
-Marisa's got enormous lasers (like, many times her size) that are going to kill dozens of Wonderful Ones in instants. Said lasers are long-lasting enough and powerful enough for them to be visible on Earth when fired from the moon, and her team doesn't have to worry about friendly fire so she can spam them freely. And knowing they're massively outnumbered, she won't screw around either.
-Nobody can handle Suguri, in the slightest.

The last two points deserve elaboration, particularly the second one. Let's get Marisa out of the way first. She's got all sorts of multidirectional spells to deal with these jokers:

https://youtu.be/eJxaXWLlWx8?t=88

(Included: Multiple Master Sparks at once, AKA megalasers, bullets abso-freakin'-lutely everywhere, perimeter defenses, the works.)

Now that that's done, let's talk Suguri. Suguri is an altered girl, turned into a human weapon by her father ten thousand years ago. She's the earth's defender, and during the events of her game, deals with a full-fledged alien invasion that's come seeking for a new home. She faces mecha, weapon platforms, other altered bioweapons and more, and her power is far beyond anything the opposing team has ever seen. Notably, after she's kicked the ass of the invasion leader, a twisted man called Shifu, and defeated the living god of the invading mothership, Shifu decides that if he can't have earth all to himself, no one will - so he prepares to drop an entire colony ship housing millions of lives to earth, causing global destruction. This is what happens:

https://youtu.be/71fupQ25s2w?t=377

So yes, Suguri is powerful enough to blow up a ship where just one block could house millions, with a single laser strike - and acting together, she and Hime (the blonde girl in the vid) cut that block away so precisely and quickly that Shifu has no time to react. That clearly establishes her power pedigree, but what about her dodgehax and durability, which she'll need plenty of? In the case of the latter, Suguri isn't a one-hit wonder: the Suguri series is unique because it uses a lifebar, instead of a lives system - if you die, you gotta start from the beginning, and more than that, energy attacks are complete nonstarters against her, because she charges her Hyper Moves by dashing through energy blasts and absorbing their energy. And as for what she deals with by dodging...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy3PjKEThwk

It's probably not possible to parse what's even going on with these attacks, which is rather the point - they are overwhelmingly fast, brutal, screen-covering...and Suguri handled this just fine. So much so that this particular boss is her best friend, and the warm-up to fighting her in Sora, the prequel/sequel to it. And as the final boss, Suguri is so strong, your character doesn't even beat her, just achieves a momentary tie and is talked into a surrender. She's an unbelievable threat who will go under the radar with Marisa and the Vic Viper causing mayhem, and nobody will be able to stop her until it's too late.
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this is the best possible Knuckles

is he invincible during Blazing Star Style Tag?

Only as much as you think Marisa might be in an FMV environment. Iframes are a pure gameplay mechanic so if that's the only reason to think so, no.
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it's not "frames" she's invincible during the entire card (at least I think)
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Do these enemies have an answer to Wonder Black's massive slow debuff?
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Suguri is as seen across the Suguri series, with access to all of her attacks and abilities, including her various Acceleration of Suguri movesets and her boss fight showings from Sora. She is equipped with every weapon in her arsenal, and may switch between them freely.

this isn't fair.
like if you had Super Knuckles sure, though it'd be lopsided in the other direction. as it is i'm not sure why she doesn't just kill them all.
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GANON1025 posted...

Do these enemies have an answer to Wonder Black's massive slow debuff?

Enormous engagement range advantage, for one. The Wonderful Ones are likely to get popped before they can get into range - as mentioned, one of Marisa's blasts was fired from the moon and passed close enough to Earth to be seen clearly, Suguri blows up the colony from thousands of meters away, and the Vic Viper is a space fighter. All the broom-riders are gonna have to deal with an incredible laser battery to get close enough to execute anything.

Drakeryn posted...

it's not "frames" she's invincible during the entire card (at least I think)

Would argue probably no because the card makes her invincible for the purposes of making it interesting, I think - it's not like Reimu's Fantasy Heaven where she canonically goes invulnerable.
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Oh huh, and I just realized I never posted anything from Suguri's boss showings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEMPmVTfM5E

That's her bossfight. See the ring that limits movement, BTW? She creates that herself, and it's not there for any other boss, so it's safe to assume she can lock people into a relative cagematch with her if the need arises. Beyond that, I feel the fight speaks for itself.
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Ok so let's talk about my team - Knuckles and the wonderful 100 have a pretty devastating combo going right from the get go

With use of Marisas' Blazing Star Style Tag Spell, they are able to rapidly move invulnerably across the city flying either naturally or with the boom able to wreak absolute havoc on Marisa and Suguri and Vic.

Just ONE of these is a pretty difficult section of boss fight but 101 of them is total chaos.

To top it off, in between casts they are probably going to be under the effect of a Blink spell which allows them to shrug off hits with no consequence.

Once in close range the named Wonders all have a variety of great powers but the key one here is Wonder Black's massive slowdown.

Everyone knows that touhou games on easy mode are cake and that's exactly what they turn this into. Wonder Red and Yellow have some powerful attacks and then of course there are STILL Elma and Fox.

Fox is every bit the pilot Vic is and unlike Vic he has some actual support from the ground in Char with his Particle Canon.


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Finally, should things start looking bad. Should the 101 not quite be up to snuff... my secret weapon unveils.

The Wonder Sorey

Sorey is able to armatize with the Wonderful 100 and thanks to how they work, they are essentially 1 merc. When Sorey Armatizes he doesnt simply go Kirby mode where he gets a power based on who it is. He adds in their stats.

So Sorey can gain the COMBINED Power of 100 Super heroes, with 100 copies of the touhou spell and just run RAMPANT on Suguri and Vic and Marisa. Using any of the wonder powers he needs to, plus his own power.


I think scenario 1 is good enough to win this, I think Scenario 2 stomps it.
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I kinda think the w100 really need that immune to friendly fire thing that Marisa has
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Sure, that all seems impressive. But the Wonderful 100 are also capable of space flight ( ), they could maneuver up there using Wonder Bomb's huge radius to slow any projectiles that comes near them.
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The big thing with the one minute buff is it just ensures that Blink is ALWAYS up by the way.

Elma can cast that same buff using Ghost Factory.
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so the main thing i'm getting is that you don't realize Suguri is immune to beam weaponry.
live ammo can hurt but beam stuff she can just dash through.
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Lopen posted...

I kinda think the w100 really need that immune to friendly fire thing that Marisa has

Too bad it would be broken if he took an equip/vehicle, an ability AND a passive.

Oh wait no Kirby basically does that only he gets to do it every week minus the vehicle thing

*grumble grumble*
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They could, but at that point that clumps them up, which means they're a big ol' target for Suguri and Marisa to laser up. That kind of sheer firepower is a bit outside the W100's usual paygrade without their mecha, which they don't have here - it'd be a great way to die. They're probably more effective playing tag with Team Laser Hype (TM) than trying to unite up against it.
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Wanglicious posted...

so the main thing i'm getting is that you don't realize Suguri is immune to beam weaponry.
live ammo can hurt but beam stuff she can just dash through.

Good thing the 100 also have THEIR fists and regular conventional weaponry too then.

Just because it doesnt hurt her doesnt mean it doesnt hurt Vic or Marisa.
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Wonderful 100 are shown in their own game to be immune from friendly fire from themselves, if that is what you mean. For example, they aren't affected by Wonder Bomb if caught in the blast radius.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

They could, but at that point that clumps them up, which means they're a big ol' target for Suguri and Marisa to laser up. That kind of sheer firepower is a bit outside the W100's usual paygrade without their mecha, which they don't have here - it'd be a great way to die. They're probably more effective playing tag with Team Laser Hype (TM) than trying to unite up against it.

To quote a great small mexican child from the Old El Paso commercials "Why not both? "

Its not like doing the Laser Tag team when it works for them STOPS them from doing a wonder bomb vs Suguri when they need to.
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There's also Wonder Gun, which are invincible non-beam ranged weapon that they have access to. Maybe normally Wonder Gun wouldn't hit these enemies, but with Wonder Bomb's debuff it shouldn't be an issue.
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https://youtu.be/mQ1pl1h-M6w#t=12m30s

This is the spell in question by the way.

Very very fast, some projectiles in the shape of those stars, but mostly this is a rapid, invincible movement spell that lets the 100 and Knux be human bullets
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And you can say Marisa and Suguri are too strong for them to face without Platinum Robo, but the Wonderful 100 do fight Wonder-Jergingha (the final boss who wants to destroy the planet) themselves first. And that form of the final boss is said to be 400x as strong than the Wonderful 100, but they are still able to combat it.

Also a note about Wonder Bomb, it slows enemies that can travel at near light speed to a crawl. Anything slower than that is basically stopped in place.
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oh it's not just immune, lasers power her up.

so if you fire a beam at her like, say, blazing star tag team, what you're really doing is asking Suguri to be with charge shots ready to go. at which point you're gonna deal with multiple counters.

also since she's got all weapons, guess that means Force Edge, which makes her immune to some physical attacks (rockets and the like) just fine too. also is used to run into people to damage them, it's basically a damage field.

...and Accelerator, which i never got. but it lets her charge much faster, dash much quicker, and the hyper there is cutting time in half.
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did you look at the video Wang?

Its more like a magically powered charge not "beam weaponry"

but I alreayd know theres no arguing with you and this is an exhibition so whatever
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well hey it's always a good idea to dismiss a guy who's played the games in question.

though from the writeups, sounds like you've gotta worry about friendly fire if you try to spam anything too.
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It is always a good idea to not argue with you specifically because it is a rarely rewarding experience.

Source:having spent too much time arguing with you.
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proving you wrong certainly doesn't sound like it'd be rewarding for you, that's true.
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and im done.

Sorry kanz, I tried but you won't be getting anything out of this topic.
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i'm sure there's others who don't know about her too. hell, this setup for her is something that people who've played gotta pause for a sec because it ain't what we get in-game. the immune to friendly fire clause is something you're partially lucky there since Marisa could otherwise beam spam for friendly fire but i guess that's what Knux and the Arwing are... well no, the Arwing's screwed. XCOM guy is also pretty useless here, which is also fortunate as he'd otherwise be powering her up with that particle cannon of his.

though as good as Suguri is, that writeup doesn't seem like it's nerfing Marisa at all. which is weird. whose idea was it to have an unnerfed touhou.
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Wanglicious posted...

i'm sure there's others who don't know about her too. hell, this setup for her is something that people who've played gotta pause for a sec because it ain't what we get in-game. the immune to friendly fire clause is something you're partially lucky there since Marisa could otherwise beam spam for friendly fire but i guess that's what Knux and the Arwing are... well no, the Arwing's screwed. XCOM guy is also pretty useless here, which is also fortunate as he'd otherwise be powering her up with that particle cannon of his.

though as good as Suguri is, that writeup doesn't seem like it's nerfing Marisa at all. which is weird. whose idea was it to have an unnerfed touhou.

*Raises hand*

Marisa is really good but she's frail and purely made of offensive firepower and dodging skills (unless you give her doujin games which she didn't get here). Plus I knew that some people have low respect for Touhou so that was factored in as well. The lack of utility, durability, and versatility makes her reasonable. Marisa vs Fox or Elma would be a fun match I feel. Suguri is a much bigger carry for her team because she has feats that aren't 'won under spellcard rules', which sort of mostly equalize all fighters in the Touhou universe, last I checked.
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marisa against both of those combined shouldn't be a match at all. i mean this isn't a low-powered universe here, you've got universal reality warpers, infinite mass loli drunks, the power of the sun, etc. no she ain't reimu but she ain't that far below, let alone so shit that an arwing would be considered trouble. it'd be considered one of the enemies in the intro stage, if that.
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Thing is that all of those things are nerfed by spellcard rules, which is what allows Marisa to compete. Last I checked, with the sole exception of Fantasy Heaven, all the superpowers end up being basically flavoring on the Danmaku, as opposed to something that actually affects the matches. At spellcard dueling Marisa is an absolute ace (Rated 1.5 to Reimu's number 1 spot pretty much, considering she actually occasionally defeats her even), but outside of that she isn't so amazing.
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Well, we say that, but we never experience a Touhou fight that avoids spellcard rules (aside from that weird Lunarian invasion thing that was super hard to follow.)

It's super obvious that she's no Reimu or Yukari, but there is little indication that spellcard rules are what let her play at most other Touhou levels -- for all we know, they could be nerfing her as well.
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the issue with taking her spell cards as flavor is that a lot of her opponents don't have it as flavor. that's what they can seriously do and actually do it.
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Wanglicious posted...

the issue with taking her spell cards as flavor is that a lot of her opponents don't have it as flavor. that's what they can seriously do and actually do it.

Which ones? Cause off the top of my head, like...something like Hell's Tokamak isn't emitting literal full power radiation or Marisa would get instantly torched, for example.


trdl23 posted...

Well, we say that, but we never experience a Touhou fight that avoids spellcard rules (aside from that weird Lunarian invasion thing that was super hard to follow.)

It's super obvious that she's no Reimu or Yukari, but there is little indication that spellcard rules are what let her play at most other Touhou levels -- for all we know, they could be nerfing her as well.

No, but we have tons of lore about how the Spellcard system was drafted because fights ended up destroying everything otherwise. That's exactly why it's in place. It's pretty much a binding set of rules everyone plays by that nerfs them all to be (mostly) equal so that disputes can be settled more peacefully.
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that's not quite what i mean. using your example, do you question that Utsuho Reiuji actually has the power of nuclear fusion? if not then the spell cards aren't really flavor text. you can say that thanks to the system implemented she's using a dumbed down version of that power but once you take that away that ain't flavor anymore, it's the power she actually has. canonically, she is at that high level and can do what those spell cards say, she just doesn't due to their system in place. if you leave her unnerfed though the idea that it's spell cards ain't what's going to come out on top, it's "this is what she can actually do."
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Right, but we're going by Marisa 'as seen across the Touhou series', and I don't think we've ever seen her fight outside the spellcard system. So what she shows within its boundaries is what we use for Mercs.
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Wonderful 100
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Anyway, MASTAH SPAHK
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Right, but we're going by Marisa 'as seen across the Touhou series', and I don't think we've ever seen her fight outside the spellcard system. So what she shows within its boundaries is what we use for Mercs.

that's not how that works.
it's the touhou series that defines that these are the powers she has. just because you don't see the fight doesn't mean that the powers and abilities don't exist there. you know how they could look and you know the level of power they can be manifested at, that's still 100% "as seen across the Touhou series." hell, you even put in all supplemental material so this really shouldn't be an issue.

what you're talking about is the gameplay of it or some other restriction but not what you've got written there. as is, all that stuff is valid.
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I see it as a personality thing. put Marisa in a fight and she'll use the spellcard system because that's how she chooses to fight. but if you override her personality with GLaDOS or something, that's a whole different story.
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Elma (but really, W100 and Fox are pretty good too)
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is that "how she chooses to fight" or is that just how she's fighting the enemies in the scenario she's in?
it's a system that lets people compete with genuine monsters way above their pay grade so of course she uses it.

but if she's not in that system anymore, why would she choose to fight like that? the enemy isn't, why would she?

edit:
for a comparison, this is like saying somebody fighting in a tournament with certain rules (e.g., no killing, no low blows, etc) is going to fight in that same way when they're pulled out of it and into a real fight.
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I don't think Marisa's durability is bad. You have to realize that every single thing in the games is considered non-lethal. Marisa's not at risk of dying when hit by countless knives, a miniature sun, all the lasers, etc.
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