Board 8 > ~~Japanese History Mafia~~ Topic 5 - I know not what life is, nor death

(+) Yeah! (+)

Obellisk posted...

I hate to say I might be wrong on scept.

I guess we kill phoenix?

If Phoenix as scum comes out at the start of d3 and makes the comment about protection he did, I'll eat my hat.
---

I feel like Phoenix is going to claim prosty. The reason I think he's prosty is because plum asked what he would do as prosty, and Phoenix said he would target KBM and then me, and then added that he didn't want his targets to reveal themselves.

Either way I want him on to confirm or deny this.
---

dowolf posted...

Obellisk posted...

I hate to say I might be wrong on scept.

I guess we kill phoenix?

If Phoenix as scum comes out at the start of d3 and makes the comment about protection he did, I'll eat my hat.

which was that?
---

More claims would do more harm than good btw, roleblocker is not dead.

Going vack to bed will bw here later.

htaeD posted...

well thats annoying

but not as annoying as Phoenix' vote I suppose

but hey Gravy, forget the rest of the game (I am not sure how much you have read so far)
whats your take on this page alone?

I mean I skimmed it and Sbell claiming was pretty big and it's determined the course of the page! Does that count.
---

its a start
---

Plum calls Pez scum almost right away (Post 62 Topic 1, post 86 Topic 1)

“My snap read was that was a pez scum post, then I had a an old feeling that I used to think pez was always scum”

“Actually

I am over thinking this.

Pez just said he is confident Chris isn't part of the mafia squad but could be a third party.

##vote:Pez

This might be a bit too textbook of a scum slip. But I'm good boarding the choo choo train to pain Town.”

Sbell comes in and doesn't like pez either (Post 143 Topic 1)

“Hey kids, on my phone, current up to wherever shit was when I started typing. Seriously, that whole current thing will drive me nuts, don't make me look back to where you are.

I like Chris
I don't like pez
Hey plum, how's the fam
Hey scep tile
And scare and Vi and oh man dowolf
Shit this is great”

Plum states a slight dislike for Scare (Post 197 Topic 1)

“Hi sbell. I was browsing linked in contacts and saw you and smiled over fond memories.

Still thinking about this scare thing.

* The one thing that pushes me into slightly leaning scum, is it is possible that he started down this road against me earnestly, but thought it would look scummy if he backtracked. Expecting me to have read a postgame topic of a game I wasn't in when I haven't played mafia since...whenever chrono trigger was, is a super weird assumption.
* My theory is that scare voted me honestly, as in that is what Town scare would do, but then when forced to back up his reasoning he was nervous he needed to avoid a perspective slip so he continued holding on to his opinion even after it was pointed out that opinion should be changed.


Time to find out if gamefaqs supports bullet points. Odds are long”

More Sbell reads (Post 219 Topic 1)
Oddity posted...
How about you SBell, do you have any morning thoughts??
“So far I've got town reads on Chris and Scare, I see what others are saying on Scare however I feel as though its a non-starter.

Pez is rubbing me all sorts of wrong ways and while I do not know him from Adam i only think this gives me a better chance at getting a good feel on him.

Sceptile is being a little odd. I'm having trouble finding reason for him to be so explanatory on things that don't matter. As if he's trying to hard to post, but not sure which was i lean on him just yet.”

Dowolf states dislike for Pez (Post 227 Topic 1)
pezloco posted...

Oddity, you probably don't know me. But I know Tom well. This is pretty much Textbook Tom. Tom is town. Chris is not mafia.

“This appeal to authority -- followed by a similar statement that has no authority behind it -- does not sit easy with me.”
---

Hi, Phoenix. Do you have any interest in claiming today? I think it might be beneficial to me if you did so.
---

Sbell lays the smackdown on Pez with some hard scumhunting (Post 236 Topic 1)

“Items from last night that I was not able to expand on since a) phone and b) It was late and c) I woke up at like 4am with my phone under my head, guess i passed out while reading? no idea, anyway.

The first quote is probably nothing but i hated it when i read it. "accidentally lynch scum", I'm sure he only meant its likely impossible for town to purposefully lynch scum having only the knowledge we learn in game on Day 1, however I dont think Town words it that way, I think Scum inadvertantly words it that way. If I'm Town, which i am, and I'm lynching someone day 1, which i will, its not an accident if i lynch scum, its only a mistake if i lynch town.”

pezloco posted...
Hope we accidentally lynch scum.



“Quote two: Its far enough into the topic where plenty of discussion is occuring and people are actively looking for reads on people, Pez attempts to derail any ongoing game play to discuss potential rule changes? What is gained by this other than to distract? Another post that bothers me.”

pezloco posted...
So back to an earlier topic, playing blind. So many feel it's dishonest. Why not make it a rule? I went and reread the rules link. I didn't see it in there. Make it a rule and then there's no more controversy about is it ok or not.




“So Chris, while I appreciate your read on my read, it is not only that one post that leads my charge against pez at this moment in time.”

Death, having not said anything of real importance prior, manages to say a lot of nothing about Scare and his wackiness (except he was town the last game he was this wacky in) and states a dislike towards Lolo (Posts 273-275 Topic 1, Post 277 Topic 1, Post 290 Topic 1)
“too bad sbell, it will do me a favor too

also Scare isnt here, but I am putting this question up before I forget
Scare, when you voted Plum, did you do it because he said he hadnt read his PM? or because he later said he lied about it?
trying to ascertain here how much you read at the time of the vote”

“Scare as a whole seems wackier than I remember him being”

“actually scratch that, browsing the archives for Feast for Crows immediately tells me that Scare jokevoted Chris day1 there too..
guess he's making that a thing”

“nah i was mistaken

Scare got a lot of heat for his wackiness (and inactivity) in the last b8game day1
..also he was town, I should clarify”

“but further in the topic now

not a fan of Lolo's sceptile vote, more for the fact that he gave no reasoning, than that he voted so soon after Oddity
also he's done little else this game
besides questioning Pez about him wanting his NL on record.. (which I took more as a cute remnant of the playstyle of the early days.. when it still meant something to have votes on record, or to pursue NL)”

Plum continues munching on the Pez scum train (Post 282 Topic 1)
“pez is giving me an overly helpful scum vibe”

Sbell quickly disagrees with that read (Post 285 Topic 1)
masterplum posted...
pez is giving me an overly helpful scum vibe


“As the one player currently riding him, I disagree with this specific read.”

Death with a sort of defense on Sceptile for Oddity and Lolo’s votes (Post 295 Topic 1)

“also I am not sure why Oddity or Lolo had such a strong reaction to Sceptile to begin with, or at least not that early”
---

Death with more defense (kinda. He keeps himself neutral in the second part of the post) for Pez when KBM brings up Pez’s argument against Sbell being weird. (KBM post 302 Topic 1 for reference. Death post 303 Topic 1)

KBM - “Pez claiming that you can't possibly have preconceived notions about people you've played with before is a weird argument to take up. Granted, it's possible that if I'd played with Nana before last game I'd have had a better time of his... weirdness, but that's still a pretty absurd claim to make. It's extremely clear what SBell was trying to say - "I have no preconceived notions about you" - and yet pez essentially comes back with "here's why you're wrong." Weird exchange there.”



SBell0105 posted...
... while I do not know him from Adam i only think this gives me a better chance at getting a good feel on him.

pezloco posted...
How in the world is not knowing me supposed to make you read me better?

SBell0105 posted...
I have no preconceived notions regarding you.

I've played with Chris, Dowolf, Death, Sceptile, KBM, VI, Scare, Plum, Leo, even Tom once or twice i believe. So i have a history with them which could lead me to think one way or another based on previous experiences.

Not you though, I get to come in and take everything you say and do at face value and I think that that makes you easier to read.

pezloco posted...
I completely disagree. Playing with people means that you have more information. This game is about information. You're worried that you'll get into a "clearly I cannot choose the wine" situation with them because of that. In this game more information is good not bad.

“Literally responding "I completely disagree" here to "I have no preconceived notions regarding you" - which is just a fact.”

Death -
“I dont mind saying this, since its clear in the post itself, but I think he is disagreeing with 'being easy to read'

which, in turn, makes pez seem a bit too defensive”

Death talks about Scare maybe returning and unvoting because lol joke vote in the midst of KBM prodding Chris about his Scare vote (Post 330 Topic 1)

“I mentioned this before
but Scare voted Chris real early in GOT4 Mafia too
so I afeel like any minute now Scare is gonna come back and unvote and say he was just joking like always”

Death pushes attention towards me. Feels like an attempt to push conversation away from Scare (Post 348 Topic 1)

“by the way
did anyone see Phoenix vote VI this page?
I know it could get lost in the shuffle, but thats a rather lazy vote if you ask me
and Phoenix hasnt done much of worth the rest of the game either except to take a null-stand against Scare and talk japanese

like he's just there”

Sceptile comes in outta nowhere and says he doesn't like Death's defense of VI (Post 360 Topic 1)

“Well, I don't like Death's defense of VI at this juncture. I feel like scum is more likely to protest random votes than town is. It makes them seem more reasonable. Clearly the vote is somewhat arbitrary, but most votes D1 are a little bit.”
---

VI comes in with a medium sized post sometime after being tagged (Post 370 Topic 1)

“Just got home from work and see that I have been tagged

Hello Phoenix! FWIW, I actually like you a little bit this game. You seem to be putting a lot of attention on yourself, between voting me and speaking Japanese early on. As scum, I always think you are usually completely invisible to the background which is how I caught you twice in a row in like, page 5 when you rolled scum. So it appears very much that you are in the opposite end of that which is pretty good.

Death's reaction to that vote confuses me though, I always saw you as someone who likes to hound inactives so it seems weird that you are yelling at someone for doing that!

Going to do a more thorough read-through now that I'm here. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me and I'll respond when I'm finished catching up.”

Death responds to the player meta portion (Post 373 Topic 1)

“am I really seen that way?
I dont think I am like that in regards to players who havent even posted once yet, I was/am more of a timestamps hound if anything
though yes scum likes to be inactive on board8 these days, but thats mostly experience talking

regardless, my point wasnt just the vote (as I keep saying)
Phoenix talking japanese doesnt do much for me either, other than it being cute
its easier to make jokes at the start of the game”

Sceptile and Death both make small posts about me. (375 & 376 Topic 1.)

"I agree that Phoenix doesn't really seem to be sticking himself out a ton or anything like VI is saying."

"somehow completely missed that

that somewhat lifts my concerns about Phoenix.. at least where his vote matters"

Scare returns to answer VI's question, throwing shade at Plum in the process (Post 378 Topic 1)

“Masterplan(tm)

Plum is tricky. It is not out of his range to follow along with the community and pretend he isnt. He admits to not checking his scum team until a day in. What makes it unbelieveable that he would have followed along and lied that he didnt?"

Sceptile points suspicion towards VI and Death for the vote thing (Post 381 & 383 Topic 1)

“That's not quite what I meant. I mean, that might be the case, I don't have a good handle on Phoenix yet. My concern was more with VI making an awkward defense. I feel something sketchy in the VI-Death-Phoenix triangle for sure, I think.”

“I think I'm more suspicious of Death and VI than I am of Phoenix, really.”

Dowolf comes in out of silence to chime in on Phoenix (that's me) suspicion (385 Topic 1)

“i will also chime in with the idle Phoenix suspicion.”

VI defends me with faulty meta and calls BS on Scare (Post 398 Topic 1)

“I guess it's not a ton, but it's little bits and elements that I don't think he's capable of reproducing as scum. I think my number 1 town read right now is... SBell? About as bullish and aggressive as I remember him being.”

(Note: Very same post he talks about me probably not being able to replicate town play as scum he disregards that Sbell might be able to do that. Also note that Sbell is higher on my townlist at the moment)

“So let me get this straight: You think he lied about knowing about what happened and kept it hidden this long for a minor trick early into Day 1 that didn't even matter because he was lying anyway?

I think he was genuinely upset over CT and loathing being serial killer that game. I would be surprised if he kept following along, much more so if he did so without commenting post game.”
---

gonna make dinner for myself soon, so I will just use my time to respond as phoenix is going

Death, having not said anything of real importance prior

I was asleep in the prior, so yeah

next, I stand by what I said in that I felt that the VI vote felt lazy
now I feel a bit different, since I have actually experienced VI's play this game, and I am leaning more towards him being scum than you

anyway the way you quote posts makes it hard to read them
and I cant really tell where you are going with this, or what the point of all the quotes is
but I suppose that will come
---

Death town reads and not town reads (Post 401 & 407)

“Sbell is very likeable I agree
since I am talking likeables
I also dont mind Masterplum, he's quick to react to things that seem to annoy him and that makes him look genuine”

“immediately as in 'comes to mind right now?'

well Phoenix and Lolo come to mind, but I have no iron-strong readings yet”

Sceptile with defense on me (Post 410 topic 1)

“I really don't like people repeating the same concern about Phoenix. I think I really dislike dowolf just saying it offhand. That seemed so lazy.”

Dowolf passes it off with a “Fair, next?” Which prompts Sceptile to vote him (Posts 415 & 416 Topic 1)

Death starts to like Sceptile for this (Post 420 Topic 1)

“I am also starting to gain more appreciation for Sceptile!”

Death then prods dowolf for his vote on me. Their exchange: (Post 423 Topic 1, post 426 Topic 1, post 430 topic 1)

Death - “hey Dowolf, why did you vote Phoenix when you did?”

Dowolf - “His Japanese was really bad, and I thought it was funny, and I like making joke votes early in D1.”

Death - “fair enough

I did want to call you out for being less active and more of a short burst kind of player
but I think I suspected you for the same reasons in the last few games, so I am ambivalent about you
you poked Chris the roaring kitten at least”

Pez interrogates Scare about Plum and Chris reads. Their exchange: (Post 434 Topic 1, post 437 Topic 1, post 442 Topic 1, post 444 topic 1

Pez - “Can you elaborate a little bit more? You reread Plum's comments. You still don't like it? Why?

For Chris, does the magic trick bother you more or the chessboard?”

Scare - “Plum is tricky.

If he didnt know for real I dont like his actions
If he did know and is lieing I dont like it even worse.

Doesnt matter what the truth behind the actions are, the actions he has taken are bad”

Pez - “
It does matter the truth behind the actions though. Because there's stupid town, there's bad town, and there's mafia. Occasionally we might get some good town thrown in too. My point is, just because he did something weird or bad doesn't make him scummy.

So, let's dive a bit deeper huh. What's bad if he didn't know for real?”

Scare - “I still feel its scum.

The only thing if he did know the recent talk is it makes him more calculated scum”
(At this point pez turns the conversation to Chris specifically)

END OF TOPIC 1

The chart of alive (includes pez on alive reads because he's flipped scum)
Death / +Scare(?) +Plum +Sbell +Sceptile -Lolo
Dowolf / -Pez
Gravy (Replaced Lolo). / -Sceptile
Plum / -Pez -Scare
Red / Kinda a nonfactor
SBell / -Pez +Scare
Scare / -Plum
Sceptile / -Death -Vi -dowolf
VeryInsane / +Sbell -Scare(?)

+ = Town read
- = scum read
---

and to add to that
I didnt want to distract people from Scare, I just didnt want us to lose all focus on one player
---

Death / +Scare(?) +Plum +Sbell +Sceptile -Lolo

cant precisely recall my suspicions at the moment, but yeah i do think I liked Scare back then
and I think you can see I wasnt too fond of you
---

Leafeon13N posted...

More claims would do more harm than good btw, roleblocker is not dead.

Going vack to bed will bw here later.

When you get back -- who do you even want dead? You're still voting Gravy IIRC, but you haven't been pushing that at all.

so.

Phoenix-Smasher posted...

Pez just said he is confident Chris isn't part of the mafia squad but could be a third party.

...Someone randomly claiming "Third party ahoy!" was actually scum.

This genuinely upsets me.

Scept why do you want the prosty to claim so much? It genuinely does not impact your position.
---

TOPIC 2

Pez starts going after Death (Post 15 Topic 2)
Tom Bombadil posted...
actually now that you mention it, it seems more like somebody making an effort to look active than somebody who just isn't afraid to stick out


“This quote was meant to describe Phoenix. I think it describes Death more accurately.”

Sceptile says he likes pez (Post 18 Topic 2)

“I like you.”

Death then says Pez's suspicion came out of nowhere (Post 19 Topic 2)

“thats a sudden suspicion you have of me there, pez”

More Scare defense from Death (Post 56 Topic 2)

“Chris.. no Scare did in fact not mention the lists until later.
Scare seems to be behind in general, since he voted Plum before he realized Plum was lying/joking
deliberate or not, it works for him as he is doubling down

Oddity, I'd feel better about that if you went back and checked for yourself whether you agree with VI on Phoenix' standing out-ability”

Plum reads (post 201 Topic 2)
“I am completely in agreement that sceptile has been antagonistic this game

Which probably makes him Town.

Dowolf popping in for a useless joke is probably a scum slip. I've made that mistake before where you are consciously not contributing as scum, but then a funny presents itself and you forget you're supposed to be not posting”

Death talks about dowolf (post 212 & 214 Topic 2)
“for what my two cents are worth
Dowolf as always he keeps bringing up work whenever someone calls him inactive
but outside of a few decent points he made early on, he hasnt done anything to wow me
he's in the same boat as Phoenix in that regard”

“took me a while to parse that sentence

dowolf is also in the habit of cracking jokes a lot
lest we forget this gem

<Insert MS Paint picture here>”

Death votes Oddity for a day 1 pass on me. That conversation: (Post 221-224)

Death - “so I dont like arbitrary decisions or day1 passes

and it makes me feel right about doing this

##Vote: Oddity”

Oddity - “Do you think it makes me scummy?”

Death - “well that vote is there for a reason
but yes
I mean I expected you to give a better reason for your phoenix avoidance than a random choice”

Oddity - “It's not random, I read VI as pretty towny, he has previous experience with Phoenix. He thinks Phoenix is acting differently than previous games that Phoenix has been scum in. It is arbitrary because I'm giving out the day 1 pass in the first place but there are reasons for it. Well, time to head off for work.”

Death then expresses concern towards Scare (a slight reversal on his maybe town read of Scare from earlier in the day) (Post 225, Tom responds post 228, and Death replies 229, all Topic 2)

“btw the thing that troubles me the most about Scare is that he seemingly knows his Chris crusade is not being picked up by others, but he is continuing it anyway”

“that actually makes me feel BETTER about scare

I don't think it's generally a good idea to swing at Chris unless you're town and are convinced he's scum, especially if there's no support. If you're scum (and not his buddy) that's just inviting trouble.”

“its a tad suicidal sure
but I cant rule out that he's acting like that just to get reactions like yours

that and the fact that his conviction/evidence just doesnt look strong”
---

dowolf posted...

Scept why do you want the prosty to claim so much? It genuinely does not impact your position.

Does it not? I guess if everyone now accepts the prosty exists or at least isn't arguing that it doesn't exist, it doesn't make a difference. I was under the impression it was still a matter of debate.
---

oh yeah Red was here
hmm
almost feels like he posted just to tell us pressure on him was going to be useless
dont like that very much
---

Sceptilesolar posted...

dowolf posted...

Scept why do you want the prosty to claim so much? It genuinely does not impact your position.

Does it not? I guess if everyone now accepts the prosty exists or at least isn't arguing that it doesn't exist, it doesn't make a difference. I was under the impression it was still a matter of debate.

Why would you make up the prosty if you were scum? Does not compute.
---

“Chris.. no Scare did in fact not mention the lists until later.
Scare seems to be behind in general, since he voted Plum before he realized Plum was lying/joking
deliberate or not, it works for him as he is doubling down

actually I think I was starting to see things from a less positive POV here
or at the very least, I had realized Scare was becoming too stubborn

I dont think I was defending him that much
in topic1 I was more worried Scare was repeating himself on purpose (hence the jokevote comment)

anyway brb
---

Pez votes Death for the Oddity vote (Post 239 Topic 2)
“##Vote: Death Here's the bandwagon I thought might come against Scare.”

Death’s response to Pez's vote (Post 241 Topic 2)
“what? bandwagon?”

pezloco posted...
Oddity: I think he's like Tom a bit here. Tom can be swayed to vote in particular ways if you repeatedly ask. I feel like Oddity got swayed to his vote on Scare. But that's a null tell. Because if Scare is town and Oddity were scum, I think he could still be swayed to vote.

That last sentence is sort of what I hoped was going to happen with this lynch train. I was really hoping LoLo, Dowolf, Phoenix, or Death would join the hype on Scare.


“I assume thats in reference to this
sounds to me like you were just waiting for an excuse to vote me/one of those other three”

Chris says that Death acting like a victim is usually scum Death (post 243 Topic 2)

“Death with a victim complex is usually a scum death.”

Death's response (post 244 Topic 2)

“I dont like to not adress bad votes on me, Chris

but eh
I would have said the same thing if he voted Lolo, Dowolf or Phoenix*
Plum defends Death's vote (Post 248 Topic 2)

"Quick read up. Deaths point was that odditys vote was arbitrary right?

Seems like as good of a reason as any to vote someone”

Death responds to Plum (Post 249 & 250 Topic 2)

“I might have had a little snapreaction when I made that vote, but I feel good about Oddity being scum

unless you mean that my vote is wasted on Oddity right now”

masterplum posted...
Quick read up. Deaths point was that odditys vote was arbitrary right?

Seems like as good of a reason as any to vote someone


“not his vote, his decision to leave Phoenix alone for day1
and eys, as I said too, his votes/unvotes werent pretty either,”

Sbell town points (post 276 Topic 2)

DoomTheGyarados posted...
Thought was town but he did kind of call both Chris and I town but didn't stop me from smacking Scare around GREAT POINT Red: Sbell

See above for a GOOD POINT Red town lean despite Leo's VILLAINOUS ACTIONS: Red



“More like a bad point.

Just because I have a town read on someone doesn't mean its my job to defend them against others attacks. Ream Scare all you want, it only helps me form better opinions on both of you.

Talk about looking for a reason to throw shade at someone.


Also i just realized i'm reading the last page and not where I left off. Guess now I need to focus on Red's body of work since his replace in to see if anything else sticks out like a sore thumb. I'll be back.”

Sceptile gives reads (including one without reasoning!) (Post 286 Topic 2)

DoomTheGyarados posted...
Sceptile can you please sum up your thoughts on people you feel strongest about? I only vaguely recall points fromyou.


“Oddity is scum, he voted back and forth and didn't seem to have any conviction. He is also voting for me and I am Town.

I think dowolf might be scum. I didn't like him popping in to attack Phoenix. He was voting Phoenix as a self-admitted joke vote, but seemed to want to spin it off into a real argument in an artificial manner.

Some things death and VI were saying about Phoenix bothered me also, though I like death going after Oddity. Probably only one of those two are scum.

Pez seems obvtown.”
---

yeah I can buy a prosty
---

Like, you could've just said nothing.

And nothing would've changed.
---

Like the only way it makes sense is if you went "uh-oh I really backed myself into a corner with that whole 'you don't wanna do this' thing but I want to claim nilla TIME TO BULLSHIT."

Which is such a bizarre avenue of attack that I don't even.
---

Sbell looks at Red, says he's scummy (Post 292 Topic 2)

“Ok I just read through all of RED which is literally just Page 4 of Topic 2. after his replace in he provided no content other than confusion and in Topic 2 he did nothing until Page 4 where he finally announced he'd caught up, and gave nearly no opinions on anything other than "This person has done nothing, That person has done nothing" Gives a blow by blow of Oddity / Sceptile but not an opinion, mentions the Scare/Chris feud but not an opinion and then throws shade at me for thinking both Scare and Chris are town.


Now lets pretend that I am not SBELL and I am just looking at Red's body of work. It oozes, "I need to post to look like i'm trying and that i've read the game but i need to be careful cause I replaced into someone with a lot of suspicion on them already and I dont want to go down with that ship." I am not throwing counter attacks at Red. Red legit looks BAD when you go through everything he hasn't done this game so far. And now he's not going to be around all day?

I for one have at least put myself out there and formed opinions on some folks. Red played it safe.

##Unvote
##Vote: Red

Chris give me someone else to focus on for my next read through. This is fun. (back to work for the time being)”

Chris, Tom, and Sceptile defend Red. Sbell disagrees still. (Post 298 Topic 2)

“Thats swinging? He had not a single thing to actually say about anyone other than they weren't producing. Its easy to attack those who don't speak.”

Red responds to Sbell's worries about him (Post 310 Topic 2)

Obellisk posted...
Ok I just read through all of RED which is literally just Page 4 of Topic 2. after his replace in he provided no content other than confusion and in Topic 2 he did nothing until Page 4 where he finally announced he'd caught up, and gave nearly no opinions on anything other than "This person has done nothing, That person has done nothing" Gives a blow by blow of Oddity / Sceptile but not an opinion, mentions the Scare/Chris feud but not an opinion and then throws shade at me for thinking both Scare and Chris are town.


“Ok this is mostly just disingenuous. For one thing, i was not expecting to replace in mid day 1 like that. I was not reading the topic prior to replacing(i got notified a few minutes before i actually came in the game). Technically, I'd skimmed the first couple of pages when the game first started, but thats not nearly enough to suffice. It was literally impossible to walk in and post content. I had to actually, you know, read the game on top of things i already had to do. Which i was plenty capable of doing, just not instantly.

Second I'd already given my thoughts on Sceptile, the importance of that is more a note for the future more than anything since both got kind of feisty at each other(scare and chris kind of overran a lot of other discussion prior).

And i wasn't expecting all of you in bed early. I love to actually get back and forth interaction going but cant when no one is here. Hell i tried to bait dowolf into the game but he did nothing, which annoyed the fuck out of me and i slept with the idea of strangling him for it fresh on my mind.”

Red tells dowolf to give him reasons why he isn't scum (post 324 Topic 2)

“Dowolf if you could ease my desire to murder you my time is limited.”

Scare also weirds him out (post 327 Topic 2)

“Scare weirds me out this game. Like, hes totally not himself but so far off his usual ball that i dont know what to think.”

(Side note: I'm horrible at reads in the early game. Called both Death and Sceptile town when upon this reread I think they're both likely scum, Death moreso than Sceptile)
---

Red starts to dislike the Sceptile lynch that's forming (Post 344 Topic 2)

“Probably a bit of the nana effect from last game but the longer i sit on it the more i dislike the sceptile lynch that was forming.”

Red brings up dowolf again. (Post 354 Topic 2)

“I really want dowolf to give us something here…”

Sbell, king of the witty response, gives Red a taste of his own accusation (post 358 Topic 2)

Leafeon13N posted...
I really want dowolf to give us something here...



“Just saying i still don't think YOU'VE given us anything.

However I dont disagree with your post.”

Dowolf then responds a minute later with a metaphor? (Post 359 Topic 2)

“I am waiting with the patience of a lion near a herd of gazelle.”

Lolo comes out of nowhere and proceeds to do nothing.

Sbell, the hero we want but don't deserve likes Death?! NANI?! (Post 369 topic 2)

Sceptilesolar posted...
Also, it seems kind of strange for Oddity to unvote me, vote Phoenix, and then immediately unvote Phoenix and vote me again. Very flighty.



“Having just read the page that this quote was on, it was really where I went with the whole exchange.


Also i am left with a pleasant taste in my mouth in regards to Death. ^5 Death.”

Our Glorious Sun Child then dejectedly sighs about an occurrence that assumes will happen (but it doesn't!) (Post 370 topic 2)

“Great, so we're going to have a LOLO B8 SPECIAL tonight....”


Death the Deathly Deathity Death Dealer (Death is a bad drug, kiddos) says Lolo looks bad. That's it. (Post 384 topic 2)

Lolo_Guru posted...
Only got about ten minutes though.


“note to self, Lolo still not looking good”

Dowolf says why to Tom (Post 397 Topic 2)

Tom Bombadil posted...
I like plum

“Why?”
---

I don't think scum goes through all this trouble
---

VI with the RKO outta nowhere!... nevermind. Just a big post. (Post 399 topic 2)

“I think most people are focusing too much on the chessboards aspect of Scare, but to me the real thing that is bothering me is his plum vote early. It seems really odd to expect plum to react to a minor conversation that happened in the post game and expect to know it, and his response to how he should know (masterplan!) doesn't really cut it for me. I feel like this part has largely been ignored, but to me it just seems like a really weird and forced conversation. At first I thought he was making those votes early just to spread reactions, but pages later he was still running with those same exact thoughts and not much else. Just doesn't add up.

##vote: Scare

Some other thoughts from what I read when I caught up:

I like Sceptile and Tom a lot (Sceptile does seem brash instead of just lurky, and while I don't completely understand the numbers behind Tom's chart completely it seems like a lot of effort for scum to do.) My gut doesn't like dowolf, but after last game I'm pretty apprehensive about lynching him. Oddity is an interesting case, I'm not so much interested in the flighty vote part (he has made some odd votes in the games I played with him) but his reaction change to Chris compared to Mercs 4 does definitely feel different, as death pointed out. I agree that that part doesn't look great, but I still would rather pursue Scare right now.”

(That's a -Scare, +Sceptile, possible + dowolf?)

Scare says he likes Death (conditionally) (Post 404 & 405)

“##Unvote: Chris

I was starting to not like Death but he is going pretty hard digging up stuff against Oddity right now, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being

I wish I took my approach from last game this time which was "try to ignore chris until day 2" and I think my reads were pretty good. Now today is all botched and I have tunnel on chris for better or for worst


Also chris you arent schizophrenic, Im Chris too dumb dumb”
“If you are scum I feel worse on death again since you are just using him to build your case for you

but yeah oddity should claim ##Vote: Oddity”

Sceptile comes in and reminds everyone that Oddity is close to death (post 407 Topic 2)

“I think Oddity is now L-2? That's okay, but no more please.”

VI gives townreads in response to my question (post 414 topic 2)

“SBell, Tom, Sceptile, Plum would be my top 4 in that order”

Scare still likes Pez (post 415 topic 2)

“I still like Tom and Pez”

Dowolf doesn't share that feeling (post 416 topic 2)

“I like Tom a lot right now, but I am much warier of Pez.”

Sceptile gets town vibes from Plum and throws shade at Tom (post 419 & 421)

“Oh, I forgot to mention this earlier. When I got into that argument with plum about whether town should follow their town reads blindly or strike out on their own, I thought that felt like classic Town plum. I recall that when I used to play with plum, he would be very willing to get into abstract arguments about mafia strategy, and whether he was right or wrong, it was just something he tended to do a lot. And I felt he was more constrained as scum. So that made me feel good about him.

Not sure if anyone has any thoughts about that.”

“I did think Tom jumping on oddity felt a little artificial. Mostly I just feel weird because Phoenix and death agreeing that he's obvtown and I don't get that impression.”
---

Pez calls Death scum (post 432 Topic 2)

“I'm current up to about 2 or 3 hours ago. But I've been meaning to do this for a long time. I wanted to do it last night but I was tired, low on time, and not certain I was thinking correctly.

TLDR: I think Oddity is town and Death is scum.

Tom, you've waffled on me a bit so far. Let's see if we can clear this up. At the beginning you thought I was kind of scummy. Midday yesterday you weren't for pushing me or Chris. This morning you thought you spotted a scum tell from last night and you thought I ignored it.

Let's start there. You claimed me slipping in politics was a scum tell to butter up the crowd. I wasn't trying to butter up the crowd. I was trying to be funny. Apparently it didn't work very well, but it was also wrong to bring in politics to this zone.

Let me tell you what my strategy has been for most of the game and then come back to exactly what I was trying to do here.

Early on I noticed something I thought Chris was setting up. Still not giving specifics. But, I realized a Scare lynch train was coming. I read Scare as town with bad reasons. So, I thought it might be a good chance to catch people jumping onto him. I watched for my biggest guts to vote Scare. Then I'd vote them instead. I was waiting for Death, Leo (who dropped off my list cause Red replaced), LoLo, Dowolf, and Phoenix. None of them voted Scare. Except Dowolf, who I think really meant to vote Scept. I no longer thought the Scare lynch was useful for me. So I tried to close it. That's the point of the post with politics. Maybe that'll help you understand that point and maybe it won't.

But you're probably more concerned at me appearing to ignore you. I don't know what to say other than not scum here. So I thought I'd show you. That's part of asking about Oddity. I wanted you to see what I saw. But I also knew I was off. And I was wrong about my read about Oddity, not about him being town but about why he was changing votes. I was pressing a little hard, because I didn't know if you had to leave for work and I knew I'd be leaving soon too. I was hoping to get a little validation before my Death vote.

So, Tom your line about how Phoenix was sort of there,
Tom Bombadil posted...
it seems more like somebody making an effort to look active than somebody who just isn't afraid to stick out


This I thought immediately applied to Death. But at the time, I was still waiting for the Scare lynch train to start. I almost voted Death anyway. So I put that on hold. By the end of the Scare train and Oddity blowing up, I'd lost time and energy. But now I can be more clear about this. Death made 32 posts prior to your quote above. Until he pressured Phoenix about the VI post, which I barely call pressure because he just basically said the vote was weird and Phoenix didn't stick around to defend it. Ok fair point, but even if you count all of his Phoenix posts as useful, that's 6 posts and ultimately he felt less sure on Phoenix. But more than just not being useful. He felt present and UNORIGINAL. Like he was just there agreeing on LoLo being weird and saying things like Where's Scare or Plum or LoLo? It was being mostly active and not contributing much ORIGINAL thought that felt like a scum tell to me.

Finally I like Oddity (need a new post for that). I got to use my plan for the Scare lynch on the Oddity Lynch. Add the bandwagon and unoriginality early on despite being active and I think he's the best D1 vote so far.”
---

Death responds (post 435 topic 2, post 437 topic 2)

“pez I feel i should notify you that my timezones restrict the times I can post in

that said, basing an argument on post quantity is rubbish and I think that has been rubbish even in the old days

also half the things you accuse me of, i am pretty sure I havent even done (whining about where Plum or Scare are)
sure others called out Lolo before, but that shouldnt stop anyone from wanting to do the same”

“however it does read more like a town mentality, so still leaning town on Pez”

Pez continues on Death (post 440 topic 2)

htaeD posted...
pez I feel i should notify you that my timezones restrict the times I can post in

that said, basing an argument on post quantity is rubbish and I think that has been rubbish even in the old days

also half the things you accuse me of, i am pretty sure I havent even done (whining about where Plum or Scare are)
sure others called out Lolo before, but that shouldnt stop anyone from wanting to do the same


“Did you read the CAPS? It wasn't just quantity. If so I should vote LoLo right? It was about how unoriginal I felt most of your posts were.

I didn't say whining, but see these posts.
Where's Leo? Topic 1 #262
Where's Scare and Plum Topic 1 #273”


Plum goes after Scare (post 442 topic 2)

“Second, I would like to talk to scare about his motivation

Why did you sign up for this game?”

Death continues his retort (post 445 topic 2, 447 topic 2)

“the fact that you still counted how many posts were made is something I dont see often
certainly not as a serious subject

and way to omit the context of those posts
Leo was a topic at the time, so of course I am going to talk about him
Leo is a notoriously inactive player, and I felt I could get him to show up
in fact I dont think anyone else even mentioned Leo yet

the second post was not me just simply asking where scare was. It was me wanting him to answer a question of mine
and plum was just the subject of the question
like did you even read the post?”

“I just realized my own memory is contradicted by the third sentence which was based on me looking back at said post
maybe people were talking about inactives in general, I cant recall specifically why I mentioned Leo other than that i was doing a readthrough of the posts I missed at the time”

Scare doesn't like Lolo! (Post 452 topic 2)

“yeah I dont like lolo either”

Sceptile reads (post 5 topic 3)


“Still feeling okay lynching Oddity. I feel like Lolo would be a bad lynch because it throws things to the roll of the dice too much. Obviously I don't want to be lynched, and I don't feel the scare lynch. Dowolf is the other person pinging my scumdar here.”

Death on Sceptile (post 14 topic 3)
“gonna have to hit the bed sooner than usual because of my job
I am comfortable with my vote where it is
I didnt even realize sceptile was still runner-up, and looking at those votes I dont like that lynch at all (and I already am leaning more on townscept anyway)”


Plum with shade towards Scare (post 36 topic 3)

“can I point out that scare was intune with the topics to post immediately when the new one came up but didn't post the 20 minutes prior or the 35 since?”
---

Obellisk posted...

I don't think scum goes through all this trouble

Yeah it seems like he's attempting to create a spirit bomb

Wish it was formatted better but I'm mainly just waiting for the conclusion
---

Obellisk posted...

I don't think scum goes through all this trouble

You referring to Phoenix's wall of text? No, I don't think so either. Phoenix would not be a very high priority target for me right now.
---

Hey VI, who are you hoping to lynch today? Going to end up settling on me again?
---

Sceptilesolar posted...

Obellisk posted...

I don't think scum goes through all this trouble

You referring to Phoenix's wall of text? No, I don't think so either. Phoenix would not be a very high priority target for me right now.

I have single handidly lost a game on this logic
---

Plum makes a big nothing post and dowolf calls him out for it (town points for dowolf) (post 42-45 topic 3)

Plum - “Actually, I think Scare and Oddity are in fact tied together partially.


Thinking about that vote by Scare on Oddity.

Town Oddity/Scum Scare makes this an absolutely horrible vote by scare. Oddity is the lynch leader and is likely to get lynched anyways. You still have several hours in the day where things could swing, and if Oddity is lynched you look completely awful. The immediate unvote indicates scare had no awareness of the votals at the time.

I think it is pretty safe to call this not the case

I think an oddity lynch would probably tell us more about scare than a scare lynch would tell us about oddity. If oddity flips town I'm going to throw it in reverse on him. He feels zoned out, but I never thought of him as an actively bad scum player.”

Dowolf - “...Plum's reasoning in #42 is bad.

like.

You have, at best, argued that Scare was not paying attention to votals.

That's it.”

Plum - “I'm arguing that scum scare isn't an idiot”

Dowolf - “No you're not.

Now, what are you arguing? Are you arguing that town scare is an idiot? Are you arguing that scum scare is not smart enough to show aggression when it would be expected from town scare? Or something else entirely? I do not know, but that is a far more interesting question than any you've posed.”

Pez gives a defense for Scare (post 57 topic 3)

ScareChan posted...
If you are scum I feel worse on death again since you are just using him to build your case for you

but yeah oddity should claim ##Vote: Oddity


“Plum, if he was forcing a claim he seems to have some idea of votals even if he didn't know exactly how many. I don't think one says much about the other.”

Plum gives a one word response to pez 20 posts later (post 77 topic 3)

“True”

Scare votes Lolo because she's there (this is coming off of Oddity making his bigger posts about why the lynch on him is bullshit. Kinda makes it look like he's trying to avoid being seen on the town lynch in hindsight) (post 86 Topic 3)

“oh good lolo is here

##vote: Lolo”

Dowolf votes Plum. (Post 98 topic 3)

“##Unvote;
##Vote: Plum

this is getting annoying, and I have a headache already anyways.”

Plum then literally responds with a confused “what?” followed by a town read on Dowolf

Sceptile tells Oddity to come up with alternatives to his lynch and dowolf calls it out for being bad

(Note: I stopped seeing much that wasn't rehash of something that already happened, so I moved ahead to day 2)
---

Holy shit that wall
---

Sceptilesolar posted...

Hey VI, who are you hoping to lynch today? Going to end up settling on me again?

No

Leaning towards Scare, though I am trying my best to determine a method to his madness
---

DAY 2

Sceptile reads (post 348 & 349 topic 3)

“Okay. Here are some people I think look more badly after this.

SBell: Waffled yesterday and did not take strong stances. This seems like a likely attitude for someone who knew the lynch was town on town.
VI: Extremely passive, did not post nearly at all. Seems uncharacteristic.
Scare: Suspected by Chris for much of D1. Now Chris is dead.
Dowolf: Fighting Oddity lynch is maybe plus, but his language seemed to indicate to me he was planning to set me up after my D1 target Oddity was mislynched.”

“Lolo, you are on notice. Your inactivity looked very bad yesterday.”

Pez votes Death. Again. (Post 366 topic 3)

“##Vote: Death

@Vengeful_KBM go read my earlier posts for why &#128521;”

Dowolf wants Sceptile dead (post 368 topic 3)

“##Vote: Sceptile

this is the plan for today.

Additionally, his first post today was garbage. "Lynch was town on town" is only particularly relevant in a world where there were two prominent targets on the chopping block; there weren't. Town Chris dies n1 most of the time regardless of any other factors. And he suspects me, Tails Doll.

heheheheheheheheh.

why would you suspect such an adorable critter as tails doll?”


Plum with some thoughts (post 373 topic 3)

“I am still puzzling over the Tom kill

Makes me think both Pez is scum and death and Red are scum

Such an odd kill”

Scare's fake cop claim happens (post 392 topic 3)

“##Vote: Plum

scanned him scum”

Lolo doesn't even question it (post 394 topic 3)

“##Vote: Plum

Ok, I believe you, scare.”

Pez's reaction to Scare (post 397 topic 3)

ScareChan posted...
##Vote: Plum

scanned him scum


“Umm wow, glad I refreshed before posting. I don't know what to think about this. Staying off of Plum now. I don't want us to get carried away too fast here.”

(Feels like he knew the scan couldn't have been real)

KBM claims and Sbell gives some thoughts after (post 415 topic 3)

“Well scare isn't going to fake a scan on day 2. Scum can't possibly win at this point. So I'm welling to take scare at face however why not scan chris his day 1 arch nemesis?

Also I'm convinced pezloco is scum even though he clearly thinks I'm the bees knees. So for good measure till scare comes back.
##vote:pez”

Dowolf brings up scare being jack outta nowhere (post 425 topic 3)

“If Scare is a jack, why the hell would he announce this?

Like.

We test both of you by lynching the people you have claimed to be scum. We do so in whatever order (though I'd rather Plum first tbqh). It would have been nice if both of you had been more coy but whatever. You weren't. We move on, and we have a pair of happy fun lynches to occupy us for the next two days.”

Continues with the jack (post 429 topic 3)

“Actually, if he were a jack, that makes it more likely he would simply drop the scan like that. A cop scan is a jack's most powerful ability; if he draws the scum blocker after using it, that leaves the real cop free to use his abilities willy-nilly.”

(Topic 4 wasn't in archive so I stopped here. More than enough though for me to soldify reads and elucidate on them. That comes next post.)
---

Obellisk posted...

I don't think scum goes through all this trouble

"I" won a game on this logic.

Which is to say, a scumbuddy won a game on this logic.
---

Are you guys talking about the audio clip

Also Sceptile, what do you think of Death?
---

dowolf posted...

When you get back -- who do you even want dead? You're still voting Gravy IIRC, but you haven't been pushing that at all.

I literally reaffirmed that i wanted gravy dead last night.

htaeD posted...

oh yeah Red was here
hmm
almost feels like he posted just to tell us pressure on him was going to be useless
dont like that very much

This is just dumb. I literally rolled around in bed skimming the topic. The only important thing i wanted to do was stop a mass because its a really stupid time to do it so i said so. Other than that i was still tired as hell so i went back to bed.

You are reading way too much into that death.

VeryInsane posted...

Are you guys talking about the audio clip

Also Sceptile, what do you think of Death?

I think he's fine. Don't really feel much scumminess from him.
---

back

ye gods phoenix

at this rate we might as well look at the archives ourselves

Leafeon13N posted...

dowolf posted...

When you get back -- who do you even want dead? You're still voting Gravy IIRC, but you haven't been pushing that at all.

I literally reaffirmed that i wanted gravy dead last night.

htaeD posted...

oh yeah Red was here
hmm
almost feels like he posted just to tell us pressure on him was going to be useless
dont like that very much

This is just dumb. I literally rolled around in bed skimming the topic. The only important thing i wanted to do was stop a mass because its a really stupid time to do it so i said so. Other than that i was still tired as hell so i went back to bed.

You are reading way too much into that death.

okay fine, maybe I was too paranoid on that one
---

To fully answer your question dowolf... Gravy, Scare, and then I'm honestly not sure beyond that. I was really certain scares vote on gravy was to give separation between the two, and when he switched votes it felt like a target of opportunity.

Alive (10):
Death
Dowolf
Gravy (Replaced Lolo)
Phoenix
Plum
Red
SBell
Scare
Sceptile
VeryInsane

We have 10 people left. 15 person game. The split is most likely 11-4 on the basis that 10-5 or 10-1-4 would have us in Mylo Day 2 (with that extra shot in mind). Currently, that means we would be at 7-3 (4 dead town, 1 dead maf).

Taking myself out of that list, there are 9 players left. 6-3

Earlier I mentioned that I townread Sbell. Pretty much all of his posts feel like town trying hard to catch scum and get them lynched. Yeah, he's a little cocky and calls himself town for no reason really here and there, but I chalk that up to a personality trait more than anything. The only way I could see him as scum is if he's bussing his entire team or some shenanigans like that.

5-3
Death
Dowolf
Gravy (Replaced Lolo)
Plum
Red
Scare
Sceptile
VeryInsane

Now for my number one scum read. Death. Death has been active, but that's about it. He never seems to commit to anything and tries as hard as he can to stay in the neutral zone. The defense of pez in particular is what caught my attention. He basically goes "hey he's not saying what you think he's saying but doesn't make him look good" Also worth noting is his vote on Oddity. He voted him for an 'arbitrary choice'. I kid you not.

so I dont like arbitrary decisions or day1 passes

and it makes me feel right about doing this

##Vote: Oddity

5-2
Dowolf
Gravy (Replaced Lolo)
Plum
Red
Scare
Sceptile
VeryInsane

I like Dowolf, especially for his fire at certain intervals throughout the game. What particularly caught my attention was his rebuttal against Plum. There hasn't been a lot of...fire this game so far, so I definitely hold it in a higher regard than it might be in a game where everyone is fiery.

4-2
Gravy (Replaced Lolo)
Plum
Red
Scare
Sceptile
VeryInsane

Personally, I feel like the last 2 in this list of 6 are Plum and Sceptile based off of interactions and things Pez did pre-scan reveal. I could also see Scare replacing one of them, though that feeling is weaker plus he's made numerous plays that would have made little to no sense to make as scum.

Kinda hoping that the other people on that list buckle down and help me solidify that read (VI, Gravy, Red)
---

htaeD posted...

back

ye gods phoenix

at this rate we might as well look at the archives ourselves

Leafeon13N posted...

dowolf posted...

When you get back -- who do you even want dead? You're still voting Gravy IIRC, but you haven't been pushing that at all.

I literally reaffirmed that i wanted gravy dead last night.

htaeD posted...

oh yeah Red was here
hmm
almost feels like he posted just to tell us pressure on him was going to be useless
dont like that very much

This is just dumb. I literally rolled around in bed skimming the topic. The only important thing i wanted to do was stop a mass because its a really stupid time to do it so i said so. Other than that i was still tired as hell so i went back to bed.

You are reading way too much into that death.

okay fine, maybe I was too paranoid on that one

You are backing down on your thoughts that quick?

Really?

Sceptilesolar posted...

Going after me will likely not succeed, and the end result is probably disadvantageous for Town on the whole.

Wtf is this
---

you say I do not commit then you show me committing to the Oddity lynch

uh-huh

If I was neutral on some players early on, it was probably because I couldnt read them well yet.. (I cant recall specifics and that wall is not helping much)

also I voted and suspected oddity for way more than that, the arbitrary choice was his and was just the tipping point
way to cherrypick my posts

and what was I supposed to say about that one Pez sentence?
that it does make him look good?
of course not, it didnt make him look anything more or less to me
---

He did the exact same things in AFfC.
---