Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 116: Procedural Drama

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NFUN
07/27/17 12:25:33 AM
#201:


Kenri posted...
Wanglicious posted...
about 40% of trans people try to commit suicide and 40-50% have issues with depression, anxiety, or both. that's both MtF and FtM. from that aspect alone, would military reject people based on those figures or would they ask for more data and have more scrutiny on any trans applicant? basically is this stat alone something that would make recruiters balk or would they still listen?

You realize that trans people are more likely to be depressed/be anxious/commit suicide because they face widespread discrimination in society, right.

Like it's not some inherent part of being trans, it's literally because of policies like this one.

No, gender dysmorphia can cause a lot of anguish independently of other people. Society's views certainly don't help, but they aren't the sole cause of issues.
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Kenri
07/27/17 12:26:27 AM
#202:


NFUN posted...
No, gender dysmorphia can cause a lot of anguish independently of other people. Society's views certainly don't help, but they aren't the sole cause of issues.

Gender dysphoria is not an inherent part of being trans either but yes related mental illnesses can indeed cause issues.
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Jakyl25
07/27/17 12:36:06 AM
#203:


https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/890310152124907520

Attack ads on Heller for these health care votes are already in the can
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BowserCuffs
07/27/17 12:58:17 AM
#204:


Generally speaking, people who are rejected or perceive that they're being rejected by society because of X reason are likely to develop depression.

And having depression increases the risk of suicide.

Also, being unhappy with your body, being forced to be one thing when you're another, being kicked out of a group because your brain and your body disagree on what gender you are, these all cause mental and emotional distress, as well.

Being trans does not inherently mean being depressed. Being rejected or denied support because of being trans, however, makes it almost guaranteed that you'd become depressed.
Just like being rejected or denied because you're gay, or you're feminine (if male) or masculine (if female), or you're doing poorly in school, or... etc.

What I'm saying is, if anyone commits suicide because of this, that's adding more blood to Trump's hands.
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Paratroopa1
07/27/17 1:01:53 AM
#205:


Kenri posted...
Wanglicious posted...
about 40% of trans people try to commit suicide and 40-50% have issues with depression, anxiety, or both. that's both MtF and FtM. from that aspect alone, would military reject people based on those figures or would they ask for more data and have more scrutiny on any trans applicant? basically is this stat alone something that would make recruiters balk or would they still listen?

You realize that trans people are more likely to be depressed/be anxious/commit suicide because they face widespread discrimination in society, right.

Like it's not some inherent part of being trans, it's literally because of policies like this one.

"We keep pushing trans people out of participating in society and they keep getting all depressed about it! What's the deal?"
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Dark Young Link
07/27/17 1:02:02 AM
#206:


And if someone takes their life because of all of that, the same people who tormented the person cry crocodile tears and go "If only we KNEW!"
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LordoftheMorons
07/27/17 1:18:28 AM
#207:


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Paratroopa1
07/27/17 1:24:02 AM
#208:


Lisa Murkowski is honestly almost doing enough to give me a glimmer of hope for the republican party
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Dark Young Link
07/27/17 1:31:05 AM
#209:


Bend your knee or be ruined, is it?

I can't wait to see the justifications for this.
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TheRock1525
07/27/17 1:31:40 AM
#210:


Kenri posted...
NFUN posted...
No, gender dysmorphia can cause a lot of anguish independently of other people. Society's views certainly don't help, but they aren't the sole cause of issues.

Gender dysphoria is not an inherent part of being trans either but yes related mental illnesses can indeed cause issues.


I mean, mental illness is present in cisgendered people as well. If both groups have these problems, why is one more likely to commit suicide than the other? Maybe societal pressures.

It's like looking at the fact that transgendered people are murdered at a much higher rate than cisgendered people and going "well, I guess biologically they're more likely to get murdered."
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Kenri
07/27/17 2:18:15 AM
#211:


TheRock1525 posted...
I mean, mental illness is present in cisgendered people as well. If both groups have these problems, why is one more likely to commit suicide than the other? Maybe societal pressures.

Yup. Not to mention that societal forces can cause/worsen mental illness in the first place.

Edit: I somehow missed Bowser's post where he said effectively this but more elegantly -- whoops!
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PostCrisisJ2
07/27/17 2:22:07 AM
#212:


Does anybody here know if refinery29 is trustworthy?
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LordoftheMorons
07/27/17 7:01:29 AM
#213:


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/890524387773997056

...Does Trump think it was supposed to be a compliment?

The implication, of course, is that it's powerful because Trump is dumb enough to base his policy off of things said by the stupidest people on Fox News
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Nelson_Mandela
07/27/17 8:01:58 AM
#214:


Lol literally reading people who are comparing Trump's trans ban to the Holocaust.

Do these people not realize that he's reverting to a policy that was in place one year ago?
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Peace___Frog
07/27/17 8:10:57 AM
#215:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
Do these people not realize that he's reverting to a policy that was in place one year ago?

The issue is that when that policy was ended, many trans soldiers felt safe to out themselves and are now being punished for following past policy.
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Seginustemple
07/27/17 8:12:19 AM
#216:


TheRock1525 posted...
looking at the fact that transgendered people are murdered at a much higher rate than cisgendered people


Is there a source for this?
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Mr Lasastryke
07/27/17 8:31:54 AM
#217:


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/890533442135502849

is he literally begging republican senators for help via twitter?
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The Mana Sword
07/27/17 9:35:08 AM
#218:


Not even technically on the job and The Mooch is already losing it.
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Dancedreamer
07/27/17 10:05:19 AM
#219:


TheRock1525 posted...
It's like looking at the fact that transgendered people are murdered at a much higher rate than cisgendered people and going "well, I guess biologically they're more likely to get murdered."


I imagine that's because people often get light sentences for the murder of transgendered people. I still remember the man who got probation for murdering his trans girlfriend.
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The Mana Sword
07/27/17 10:06:22 AM
#220:


guys, no "-ed' at the end of transgender

it's just "transgender"
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HaRRicH
07/27/17 10:12:43 AM
#221:


I got to thinking about the Chelsea Manning-comment Wang had yesterday about this tran-ban possibly being revenge against her (and Obama's pardon for her)...then I came across this from six months ago.


https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/824595118955069441

14 minutes apart: Fox says "ungrateful traitor," Trump says "ungrateful traitor," Fox says "weak leader," Trump says "weak leader." https://t.co/f7urTOUG1L


Not sure how directly connected they are, but it checks out so far.
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The Mana Sword
07/27/17 10:16:27 AM
#222:


It's well known that Trump just parrots what he sees on TV.
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FFDragon
07/27/17 10:21:28 AM
#223:


And the Mooch just parrots what Trump says.

It's like an even more unsettling human centipede.
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Wanglicious
07/27/17 10:40:02 AM
#224:


trump's said quite a bit more about manning before and all of it is pretty much in the same style. you just need to ask which do you think is more likely: Trump is relaying info after talking to high level generals, security councils, etc or Trump is trying to strongarm them by speaking up first, forcing decisions, and being incredibly petty against someone who leaked info he doesn't like?
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Peace___Frog
07/27/17 11:15:46 AM
#225:


Easily the second
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Peace___Frog
07/27/17 11:29:03 AM
#226:


Hey, guess what happened last night? Tell me again how great this administration is for the LGBT community.


https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/890350260551340039


BREAKING: Sessions' DOJ says that gay people aren't protected from discrimination under Title VII. https://t.co/9sJPQFGuN5 by @dominicholden https://t.co/o1VJDsUhpM




Basically, they submitted an amicus brief that argues that discriminating against employees over their sexual orientation is acceptable.
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SupremeZero
07/27/17 11:29:06 AM
#227:


Wanglicious posted...
trump's said quite a bit more about manning before and all of it is pretty much in the same style. you just need to ask which do you think is more likely: Trump is relaying info after talking to high level generals, security councils, etc or Trump is trying to strongarm them by speaking up first, forcing decisions, and being incredibly petty against someone who leaked info he doesn't like?

If Trump actually talked to his generals, this whole thing about transgender banning would be less of a clusterfuck. So we know THAT'S not a thing.
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Regaro
07/27/17 11:38:10 AM
#228:


http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/26/skinny-obamacare-repeal-may-leave-16-million-more-uninsured-cbo-estimates.html

So-called "skinny repeal" will leave 16 million without insurance, and premiums up 20% next year.

I'd love to hear from the selfish, greedy assholes how voting Trump is better for their bank accounts.
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Jakyl25
07/27/17 11:42:00 AM
#229:


Peace___Frog posted...
Hey, guess what happened last night? Tell me again how great this administration is for the LGBT community.


https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/890350260551340039


BREAKING: Sessions' DOJ says that gay people aren't protected from discrimination under Title VII. https://t.co/9sJPQFGuN5 by @dominicholden https://t.co/o1VJDsUhpM




Basically, they submitted an amicus brief that argues that discriminating against employees over their sexual orientation is acceptable.


Trump then fires Sessions and is like "Why are liberals mad? They hated him!"
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Not_an_Owl
07/27/17 1:23:06 PM
#230:


Joint Chiefs: Actually, We're Cool with Trans Troops

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/trump-transgender-military-ban-no-modification-241029?cmpid=sf
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The Mana Sword
07/27/17 1:24:31 PM
#231:


I mean, that's not necessarily true, they just aren't taking a order that Trump wrote on twitter without anything formal.
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FFDragon
07/27/17 1:25:18 PM
#232:


still the fact that he'd go on twitter about something without at least having something real in motion is lol
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FFDragon
07/27/17 1:29:33 PM
#233:


https://thinkprogress.org/scaramucci-cnn-meltdown-39c64badff56

I know this was brought up a little bit, but he even melts down like a mini-Trump.
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dowolf
07/27/17 1:29:46 PM
#234:


I mean, firing Sessions and then the Republican senate being so pissed that they refuse to even consider whoever Trump nominates is literally the best case scenario, so...

What I'm saying is, the left really needs to be quiet about their anger so the Republicans don't have a knee-jerk reaction to oppose them. Who's playing 4D chess now, Trump?
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NFUN
07/27/17 1:30:27 PM
#235:


FFDragon posted...
still the fact that he'd go on twitter about something without at least having something real in motion is

Trump's SOP
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Thus is our treaty written, thus is our agreement made. Thought is the arrow of time; memory never fades. What was asked is given; the price is paid.
ARF
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The Mana Sword
07/27/17 1:30:50 PM
#236:


HPaMIfr

SHOWDOWN IN THE OVAL OFFICE
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dowolf
07/27/17 1:31:08 PM
#237:


FFDragon posted...
https://thinkprogress.org/scaramucci-cnn-meltdown-39c64badff56

I know this was brought up a little bit, but he even melts down like a mini-Trump.

I'm starting to understand how this was Spicy's last straw.
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FFDragon
07/27/17 1:34:01 PM
#238:


Yeah Spicy definitely made the right call here.
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red sox 777
07/27/17 1:36:56 PM
#239:


dowolf posted...
I mean, firing Sessions and then the Republican senate being so pissed that they refuse to even consider whoever Trump nominates is literally the best case scenario, so...

What I'm saying is, the left really needs to be quiet about their anger so the Republicans don't have a knee-jerk reaction to oppose them. Who's playing 4D chess now, Trump?


While that would be effective, I think the left is literally incapable of being quiet when faced with a situation like this. They just have to grab the cookie.
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Mr Lasastryke
07/27/17 1:51:22 PM
#240:


like the republicans wouldn't always oppose the left anyway.
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LapisLazuli
07/27/17 1:55:33 PM
#241:


red sox 777 posted...
dowolf posted...
I mean, firing Sessions and then the Republican senate being so pissed that they refuse to even consider whoever Trump nominates is literally the best case scenario, so...

What I'm saying is, the left really needs to be quiet about their anger so the Republicans don't have a knee-jerk reaction to oppose them. Who's playing 4D chess now, Trump?


While that would be effective, I think the left is literally incapable of being quiet when faced with a situation like this. They just have to grab the cookie.


Yeah, how dare the left have morals. Should be more like conservatives.
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SupremeZero
07/27/17 2:00:24 PM
#242:


https://twitter.com/MarcGoldwein/status/890396857129725952

*cough*
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BowserCuffs
07/27/17 3:38:03 PM
#243:


So Trump attempts to kick trans people out of the military for being trans and now employers should be allowed to fire or refuse to hire people simply because they're gay.

Yeah, okay.

Fuck the Republican party and every centrist and liberal who thought Hillary would be just as bad or worse.

You were wrong and we're all paying for your wrongness.
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FFDragon
07/27/17 3:39:31 PM
#244:


"okay"
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SgtSphynx
07/27/17 3:42:15 PM
#245:


http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07/department-of-energy-risks-michael-lewis
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LordoftheMorons
07/27/17 3:47:29 PM
#246:


Healthcare news!

Good: state waivers are not Byrd-compliant! https://twitter.com/TopherSpiro/status/890610908535242752

(Quite possibly) bad (increases probability something passes): it sounds like Paul Ryan might be planning to just pass skinny repeal as-is if it gets through the Senate. Of course, many senators appear to be considering voting for skinny repeal just so it can go to conference, but if the House doesn't make any changes the Senate doesn't get to vote again and has to totally own their vote on a piece of legislation they knew was terrible.

Just wtf: Senators are writing skinny repeal over fucking lunch: https://twitter.com/AmandaBecker/status/890567841300328449
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ChaosTonyV4
07/27/17 3:48:55 PM
#247:


Wanglicious posted...
trump's said quite a bit more about manning before and all of it is pretty much in the same style. you just need to ask which do you think is more likely: Trump is relaying info after talking to high level generals, security councils, etc or Trump is trying to strongarm them by speaking up first, forcing decisions, and being incredibly petty against someone who leaked info he doesn't like?


Considering the Pentagon said there's no plan at the moment to rescind the transgender policy, the second?
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LordoftheMorons
07/27/17 4:12:07 PM
#248:


https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/890660114088116225

Fuck
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Jakyl25
07/27/17 4:48:45 PM
#249:


How do you "make progress" with the Senate Parliamentarian?
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Jakyl25
07/27/17 4:50:34 PM
#250:


The Mana Sword posted...
I mean, that's not necessarily true, they just aren't taking a order that Trump wrote on twitter without anything formal.


Hey, even Seph said that it would be bad if Trump made that announcement without consulting the chiefs of staff
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