Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 116: Procedural Drama

(+) Yeah! (+)

Nelson_Mandela posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I'm so fucking happy right now.

EIGHT fucking years we've been waiting for this. Four Congressional elections, one presidential election. All on the promise to get rid of Obamacare. I honestly never thought it would really happen.

I really do imagine you sitting in a room with no decorations at a wooden table with a wall-hanging clock ticking for eight years, your hands folded on the tabletop, patiently waiting for someone to enter with an envelope containing a note reading, "Obamacare is over."

And when you read it, you let out a sigh of relief, pick up the pistol that has accrued dust for eight years across from your hands, and blow your own brains out, since your greatest dream has been realized.

Suicide isn't funny

I know. I'm worried for you.
---

red sox 777 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

velocycloraptor posted...

the gop has done horrible, unpopular things all the time and they still win because the democratic leadership is full of horrific centrists that make incredible numbers of voters not bother or vote third party.

And if people like you had voted for those "horrific centrists" we wouldn't be in this mess

We also wouldn't be if "people like you" had voted for Bernie Sanders.

[candidate] lost, get over it
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I'm so fucking happy right now.

EIGHT fucking years we've been waiting for this. Four Congressional elections, two presidential elections. All on the promise to get rid of Obamacare. I honestly never thought it would really happen.

Do you actually care about the well being of anybody other than yourself? Like, at all? Even a little bit?
---

red sox 777 posted...

Republicans will do just fine in 2018 and 2020, as long as they repeal Obamacare. As for their hypocrisy in strongarming Democrats to working with them now when they refused to work with Democrats before, there is a Latin saying: Vae victis. Said by a Celtic leader who conquered Rome, but I think it's fair to say, adopted by the Roman Republic and then Empire as they embarked on conquest.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Excellent post.

If the GOP fails to repeal, they just disillusioned their entire base, which is far worse politically.
---

Not_an_Owl posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I'm so fucking happy right now.

EIGHT fucking years we've been waiting for this. Four Congressional elections, two presidential elections. All on the promise to get rid of Obamacare. I honestly never thought it would really happen.

Do you actually care about the well being of anybody other than yourself? Like, at all? Even a little bit?

Yes
---

TheRock1525 posted...

Except Obamacare isn't dead with this vote unless the House moves forward with a quick turnaround vote and actually doesn't go to committee.

well i mean it's that or cancel their vacation
---

TheRock1525 posted...

velocycloraptor posted...

it is over a year before midterms and several before the presidential election, there is no reason to believe this will matter.

Seven years of railing against Obamacare worked. Because everyone in the US needs health care and putting the blame the other side is one of the most successful techniques in politics.

No it isn't. the most successful technique is giving yourself a reason to vote for you. people wanted obamacare gone because their premiums kept going up - and the GOP said "we will get rid of obamacare" while the democrats said "we like obamacare". if the dems ran on universal healthcare then they would have been making a case to improve things, rather than saying "everything is fine". I know many people who voted for Trump literally just because Hillary was promising to be basically Obama and while they don't know the problems with society, they know something needed to change. regular people do not care about policy details or nuance, they just want to know you wanna try to change things for the better. blaming the other side matters for like 3% of the wishy washy voters, but there is a good 50+% of voters who don't vote at all that could easily be convinced to if you give them some reason to do so. if Hillary inspired people to believe in hope and change like Obama, and got the same % of young folks and minorities out to vote, she would be pres. Instead she ran on staying the course. Democrats will never win as long as they try to win over right wing voters instead of gaining the support of non-voters and third party voters.


btw after obamacare is gutted essentially the only part of obamas legacy that remains is increased surveillance state, increasing military presence in the middle east and vastly increasing drone strikes. incremental change is bullshit, and neoliberal centrism is the death of america because it buys into right wing poltiics so hard it has doomed us all.

Not_an_Owl posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I'm so fucking happy right now.

EIGHT fucking years we've been waiting for this. Four Congressional elections, two presidential elections. All on the promise to get rid of Obamacare. I honestly never thought it would really happen.

Do you actually care about the well being of anybody other than yourself? Like, at all? Even a little bit?

Lol what kind if question is that to ask the guy who says he enjoys inflicting physical pain on others?
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Republicans will do just fine in 2018 and 2020, as long as they repeal Obamacare. As for their hypocrisy in strongarming Democrats to working with them now when they refused to work with Democrats before, there is a Latin saying: Vae victis. Said by a Celtic leader who conquered Rome, but I think it's fair to say, adopted by the Roman Republic and then Empire as they embarked on conquest.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Excellent post.

If the GOP fails to repeal, they just disillusioned their entire base, which is far worse politically.

They are failing to repeal.

They're getting partial repeal to try and get a full repeal later which they may not get. They're just gonna tank 1/6th of the economy on the hope that they can get it later.
---

red sox 777 posted...

We also wouldn't be if "people like you" had voted for Bernie Sanders.

I would have voted for Bernie Sanders if he had won the nomination because the other person would have been Donald fucking Trump, the worst candidate a major party has ever put forth in an American presidential election.
---

LordoftheMorons posted...

red sox 777 posted...

We also wouldn't be if "people like you" had voted for Bernie Sanders.

I would have voted for Bernie Sanders if he had won the nomination because the other person would have been Donald fucking Trump, the worst candidate a major party has ever put forth in an American presidential election.

George Wallace
---

TheRock1525 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Republicans will do just fine in 2018 and 2020, as long as they repeal Obamacare. As for their hypocrisy in strongarming Democrats to working with them now when they refused to work with Democrats before, there is a Latin saying: Vae victis. Said by a Celtic leader who conquered Rome, but I think it's fair to say, adopted by the Roman Republic and then Empire as they embarked on conquest.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Excellent post.

If the GOP fails to repeal, they just disillusioned their entire base, which is far worse politically.

They are failing to repeal.

They're getting partial repeal to try and get a full repeal later which they may not get. They're just gonna tank 1/6th of the economy on the hope that they can get it later.

Like I said, if you think they're going to torpedo the healthcare system, you're nuts. This whole thing is designed to force their colleagues to work out a real bipartisan bill with them to avoid a major catastrophe.
---

velocycloraptor posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

velocycloraptor posted...

it is over a year before midterms and several before the presidential election, there is no reason to believe this will matter.

Seven years of railing against Obamacare worked. Because everyone in the US needs health care and putting the blame the other side is one of the most successful techniques in politics.

No it isn't. the most successful technique is giving yourself a reason to vote for you. people wanted obamacare gone because their premiums kept going up - and the GOP said "we will get rid of obamacare" while the democrats said "we like obamacare". if the dems ran on universal healthcare then they would have been making a case to improve things, rather than saying "everything is fine". I know many people who voted for Trump literally just because Hillary was promising to be basically Obama and while they don't know the problems with society, they know something needed to change. regular people do not care about policy details or nuance, they just want to know you wanna try to change things for the better. blaming the other side matters for like 3% of the wishy washy voters, but there is a good 50+% of voters who don't vote at all that could easily be convinced to if you give them some reason to do so. if Hillary inspired people to believe in hope and change like Obama, and got the same % of young folks and minorities out to vote, she would be pres. Instead she ran on staying the course. Democrats will never win as long as they try to win over right wing voters instead of gaining the support of non-voters and third party voters.


btw after obamacare is gutted essentially the only part of obamas legacy that remains is increased surveillance state, increasing military presence in the middle east and vastly increasing drone strikes. incremental change is bullshit, and neoliberal centrism is the death of america because it buys into right wing poltiics so hard it has doomed us all.

Republicans ran on "we're gonna get rid of it and give you something better."

They're gonna get rid of it and give them something worse. A majority don't like what they're doing and that's gonna hurt them.
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

George Wallace

I said major party!
I'm also not actually sure Wallace is worse
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Like I said, if you think they're going to torpedo the healthcare system, you're nuts.

They literally are. With no agreement on what to do to save it.
---

velocycloraptor posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

velocycloraptor posted...

it is over a year before midterms and several before the presidential election, there is no reason to believe this will matter.

Seven years of railing against Obamacare worked. Because everyone in the US needs health care and putting the blame the other side is one of the most successful techniques in politics.

No it isn't. the most successful technique is giving yourself a reason to vote for you. people wanted obamacare gone because their premiums kept going up - and the GOP said "we will get rid of obamacare" while the democrats said "we like obamacare". if the dems ran on universal healthcare then they would have been making a case to improve things, rather than saying "everything is fine". I know many people who voted for Trump literally just because Hillary was promising to be basically Obama and while they don't know the problems with society, they know something needed to change. regular people do not care about policy details or nuance, they just want to know you wanna try to change things for the better. blaming the other side matters for like 3% of the wishy washy voters, but there is a good 50+% of voters who don't vote at all that could easily be convinced to if you give them some reason to do so. if Hillary inspired people to believe in hope and change like Obama, and got the same % of young folks and minorities out to vote, she would be pres. Instead she ran on staying the course. Democrats will never win as long as they try to win over right wing voters instead of gaining the support of non-voters and third party voters.


btw after obamacare is gutted essentially the only part of obamas legacy that remains is increased surveillance state, increasing military presence in the middle east and vastly increasing drone strikes. incremental change is bullshit, and neoliberal centrism is the death of america because it buys into right wing poltiics so hard it has doomed us all.

Unlikely. Unless people go "Oh hey I really do like not having healthcare after all", gutting obamacare will just result in new healthcare acts, eventually probably down the line to single payer, which will all be traced back to obamacare existing. It's stupid, but it's not "your legacy is deaaaaaaaaaad!"
---

TheRock1525 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Like I said, if you think they're going to torpedo the healthcare system, you're nuts.

They literally are. With no agreement on what to do to save it.

Because the Democrats won't even consider anything that alters Obamacare. But now if they truly care about their constituents, they'll have to.
---

LordoftheMorons posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

George Wallace

I said major party!
I'm also not actually sure Wallace is worse

Winning 13% of the vote is pretty major!
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Like I said, if you think they're going to torpedo the healthcare system, you're nuts. This whole thing is designed to force their colleagues to work out a real bipartisan bill with them to avoid a major catastrophe.

That's the stupidest plan I've ever heard

By the way, insurers have to commit to new plans/rates in the next week or two, so even in your hypothetical scenario there's going to be a ton of real damage caused
---

red sox 777 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

velocycloraptor posted...

the gop has done horrible, unpopular things all the time and they still win because the democratic leadership is full of horrific centrists that make incredible numbers of voters not bother or vote third party.

And if people like you had voted for those "horrific centrists" we wouldn't be in this mess

We also wouldn't be if "people like you" had voted for Bernie Sanders.

/|\ plus obamacare itself leaves tens of millions of people uninsured. the man refused to fight for a public option, let alone universal healthcare. he had a super majority. obamas cowardice, dem senators belief that millions should be left uninsured are to blame for millions of americans deaths due to lack of care. obamacare was a heritage foundation right wing plan for healthcare designed to pad the wallets of the insurance industry. the democrats do not care about regular people.

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Like I said, if you think they're going to torpedo the healthcare system, you're nuts. This whole thing is designed to force their colleagues to work out a real bipartisan bill with them to avoid a major catastrophe.

A catastrophe that THEY THEMSELVES CREATED.

Literally, you are cheering because your team created what you yourself acknowledge is a "major catastrophe". Your words, not mine.

The politicians you support have created a major catastrophe (when they didn't have to! they could have just not brought up and voted on this bill! they were under no compulsion to do this!) that will have massive repercussions across the entire nation, and you are cheering this.
---

I really do not know what world cyclo is living in here dems just say they love obamacare and that's that
---

they didn't have the votes for the public option

does anyone remember the aca debate?
---

TheRock1525 posted...

velocycloraptor posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

velocycloraptor posted...

it is over a year before midterms and several before the presidential election, there is no reason to believe this will matter.

Seven years of railing against Obamacare worked. Because everyone in the US needs health care and putting the blame the other side is one of the most successful techniques in politics.

No it isn't. the most successful technique is giving yourself a reason to vote for you. people wanted obamacare gone because their premiums kept going up - and the GOP said "we will get rid of obamacare" while the democrats said "we like obamacare". if the dems ran on universal healthcare then they would have been making a case to improve things, rather than saying "everything is fine". I know many people who voted for Trump literally just because Hillary was promising to be basically Obama and while they don't know the problems with society, they know something needed to change. regular people do not care about policy details or nuance, they just want to know you wanna try to change things for the better. blaming the other side matters for like 3% of the wishy washy voters, but there is a good 50+% of voters who don't vote at all that could easily be convinced to if you give them some reason to do so. if Hillary inspired people to believe in hope and change like Obama, and got the same % of young folks and minorities out to vote, she would be pres. Instead she ran on staying the course. Democrats will never win as long as they try to win over right wing voters instead of gaining the support of non-voters and third party voters.


btw after obamacare is gutted essentially the only part of obamas legacy that remains is increased surveillance state, increasing military presence in the middle east and vastly increasing drone strikes. incremental change is bullshit, and neoliberal centrism is the death of america because it buys into right wing poltiics so hard it has doomed us all.

Republicans ran on "we're gonna get rid of it and give you something better."

They're gonna get rid of it and give them something worse. A majority don't like what they're doing and that's gonna hurt them.

a majority don't like almost every single policy of the gop

but guess who fucking votes? the sociopaths that do like those things.

Not_an_Owl posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Like I said, if you think they're going to torpedo the healthcare system, you're nuts. This whole thing is designed to force their colleagues to work out a real bipartisan bill with them to avoid a major catastrophe.

A catastrophe that THEY THEMSELVES CREATED.

Literally, you are cheering because your team created what you yourself acknowledge is a "major catastrophe". Your words, not mine.

The politicians you support have created a major catastrophe (when they didn't have to! they could have just not brought up and voted on this bill! they were under no compulsion to do this!) that will have massive repercussions across the entire nation, and you are cheering this.

You know what created the most lasting peace in the history of the planet? Nuclear weapons and brinkmanship.
---

velocycloraptor posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

velocycloraptor posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

velocycloraptor posted...

it is over a year before midterms and several before the presidential election, there is no reason to believe this will matter.

Seven years of railing against Obamacare worked. Because everyone in the US needs health care and putting the blame the other side is one of the most successful techniques in politics.

No it isn't. the most successful technique is giving yourself a reason to vote for you. people wanted obamacare gone because their premiums kept going up - and the GOP said "we will get rid of obamacare" while the democrats said "we like obamacare". if the dems ran on universal healthcare then they would have been making a case to improve things, rather than saying "everything is fine". I know many people who voted for Trump literally just because Hillary was promising to be basically Obama and while they don't know the problems with society, they know something needed to change. regular people do not care about policy details or nuance, they just want to know you wanna try to change things for the better. blaming the other side matters for like 3% of the wishy washy voters, but there is a good 50+% of voters who don't vote at all that could easily be convinced to if you give them some reason to do so. if Hillary inspired people to believe in hope and change like Obama, and got the same % of young folks and minorities out to vote, she would be pres. Instead she ran on staying the course. Democrats will never win as long as they try to win over right wing voters instead of gaining the support of non-voters and third party voters.


btw after obamacare is gutted essentially the only part of obamas legacy that remains is increased surveillance state, increasing military presence in the middle east and vastly increasing drone strikes. incremental change is bullshit, and neoliberal centrism is the death of america because it buys into right wing poltiics so hard it has doomed us all.

Republicans ran on "we're gonna get rid of it and give you something better."

They're gonna get rid of it and give them something worse. A majority don't like what they're doing and that's gonna hurt them.

a majority don't like almost every single policy of the gop

but guess who fucking votes? the sociopaths that do like those things.

.... uhhhh that's exactly the point
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Not_an_Owl posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Like I said, if you think they're going to torpedo the healthcare system, you're nuts. This whole thing is designed to force their colleagues to work out a real bipartisan bill with them to avoid a major catastrophe.

A catastrophe that THEY THEMSELVES CREATED.

Literally, you are cheering because your team created what you yourself acknowledge is a "major catastrophe". Your words, not mine.

The politicians you support have created a major catastrophe (when they didn't have to! they could have just not brought up and voted on this bill! they were under no compulsion to do this!) that will have massive repercussions across the entire nation, and you are cheering this.

You know what created the most lasting peace in the history of the planet? Nuclear weapons and brinkmanship.

What does this have to do with anything?
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Like I said, if you think they're going to torpedo the healthcare system, you're nuts.

They literally are. With no agreement on what to do to save it.

Because the Democrats won't even consider anything that alters Obamacare. But now if they truly care about their constituents, they'll have to.

Actually they very much said they were open to changes in Obamacare.

This method of scorched earth basically means they can let Republicans twist in the wind.

Why do you think republicans are literally wanting reassurances this wont become law
---

your point is that the gop repealing obamacare won't hurt them at all because the people who want good things to happen don't vote, because our government is so hopelessly shitty and never represents the views of the people that there is no point?

Bill supposedly includes $235 million in Medicaid cuts.

"Whoops" - Heller.
---

velocycloraptor posted...

your point is that the gop repealing obamacare won't hurt them at all because the people who want good things to happen don't vote, because our government is so hopelessly shitty and never represents the views of the people that there is no point?

You're the one not voting because you don't give a shit about the difference between 25 million uninsured or 40 or 50 million uninsured

Those 15-25 million people may think that there's a "point"
---

GuessMyUserName posted...

a majority don't like almost every single policy of the gop

but guess who fucking votes? the sociopaths that do like those things.

Didn't more people vote for not Donald Trump than for Donald Trump.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

GuessMyUserName posted...

a majority don't like almost every single policy of the gop

but guess who fucking votes? the sociopaths that do like those things.

Didn't more people vote for not Donald Trump than for Donald Trump.

Depends on who you ask, I suppose.

Hey SephG, do you think more people voted for or against trump?
---

for all the talk about the democrats failing to inspire this might be one of the more de-inspiring turns this topic has taken in a while
---

Let's be honest here...healthcare or not, Republicans won't fuck themselves over. For all the talk and insults calling Democrats the party that plays identity politics, that's LITERALLY the only reason Republicans can still exist today. They create boogeymen for their weak-willed constituents to hate and fear, and promise to attack those boogeymen in exchange for votes. It's a shame that Democrats aren't that collectively stupid, because maybe we could stop them from destroying our country every other president.
---

dammit rock don't you put cyclo's quote on me!
---

I did and always have voted. If you voted for Hillary Clinton over Bernie you don't get to pull the "care about uninsured" card. And if people keep preferring to try to shame non or third party voters into supporting people they absolutely cannot stand and don't agree with rather than appealing to them on policy then the dems will continue to lose and the gop sociopaths will continue to win. Hell, you might even get a ton of support for a centrist if they were even willing to reform our elections so that it wasn't first past the post or entirely funded by interests making us an oligarchy. Because then at least people would have the hope of one day actually being represented.

TheRock1525 posted...

GuessMyUserName posted...

a majority don't like almost every single policy of the gop

but guess who fucking votes? the sociopaths that do like those things.

Didn't more people vote for not Donald Trump than for Donald Trump.

The gop owns every single level of government

velocycloraptor posted...

I did and always have voted. If you voted for Hillary Clinton over Bernie you don't get to pull the "care about uninsured" card. And if people keep preferring to try to shame non or third party voters into supporting people they absolutely cannot stand and don't agree with rather than appealing to them on policy then the dems will continue to lose and the gop sociopaths will continue to win. Hell, you might even get a ton of support for a centrist if they were even willing to reform our elections so that it wasn't first past the post or entirely funded by interests making us an oligarchy. Because then at least people would have the hope of one day actually being represented.

You: "I want to have steak for dinner."

U.S. Electorate: "Well, we don't have any steak but I can make pasta if you want, or I guess there's some rotten bananas sitting in the cupboard."

You: "UGH, it doesn't matter, if it's not steak it's garbage!"

U.S. Electorate: "Okay, enjoy your rotting bananas."
---

velocycloraptor posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

GuessMyUserName posted...

a majority don't like almost every single policy of the gop

but guess who fucking votes? the sociopaths that do like those things.

Didn't more people vote for not Donald Trump than for Donald Trump.

The gop owns every single level of government

And less than a decade ago the Dems did with a bigger majority and a far larger electoral win.
---

I think there's a misunderstanding that recurs a lot. The 2nd Amendment says: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." People on the left often interpret this to mean that there is a right to bear arms only for the purpose of having a regulated militia. It can also be interpreted to mean that the Constitution says that a militia IS necessary, and therefore, commands that the right to bear arms not be infringed.

Similarly, people argue that people will be unhappy with a bill that repeals Obamacare and doesn't replace it with something better. That's not how a lot of people see it. ANYTHING that repeals Obamacare AUTOMATICALLY replace it with something better because Obamacare is bad. This is the line of thinking that the left needs to understand.
---

red sox 777 posted...

That's not how a lot of people see it. ANYTHING that repeals Obamacare AUTOMATICALLY replace it with something better because Obamacare is bad. This is the line of thinking that the left needs to understand.

If this is true, why does keeping Obamacare poll so much higher than any replacement the Republicans have offered?
---

You: "I want to have steak for dinner."

U.S. Electorate: "Well, we don't have any steak but I can make pasta if you want, or I guess there's some rotten bananas sitting in the cupboard."

You: "UGH, it doesn't matter, if it's not steak it's garbage!"

U.S. Electorate: "Okay, enjoy your rotting bananas."


me, dumbass: "all people should have healthcare"

you, wise: "I think only 15 million should not have healthcare"

you wanna talk pragmatic? Bernie supported universal healthcare. and he voted for obamacare because it was better and all he could get.

you wanna talk cowardice? all the dems who supported obamacare but did not support universal healthcare. but who is blamed as being the the problem? bernie.


And less than a decade ago the Dems did with a bigger majority and a far larger electoral win.


yeah, when they ran on the hope of change. and then they did incremental change that has almost entirely been repealed at this point. problem with barely making a dent is that its just as easy to get rid of it. when you make big changes that people actually want and love - Social Security, Medicare, the fucking idea of an 8 hour day, a weekend, etc....these are not easy things to take away. When you do a half measure that almost everyone hates, its very easy to get the support to get rid of it.

lol rumor is Murkowski was flipped to a yes so McCain can vote no.
---

velocycloraptor posted...

I did and always have voted. If you voted for Hillary Clinton over Bernie you don't get to pull the "care about uninsured" card. And if people keep preferring to try to shame non or third party voters into supporting people they absolutely cannot stand and don't agree with rather than appealing to them on policy then the dems will continue to lose and the gop sociopaths will continue to win. Hell, you might even get a ton of support for a centrist if they were even willing to reform our elections so that it wasn't first past the post or entirely funded by interests making us an oligarchy. Because then at least people would have the hope of one day actually being represented.

Neither Bernie nor Hillary was getting single payer through Congress (and Bernie was assuming like 5% growth to make his math work) so you can cool it with the false equivalence
---

TheRock1525 posted...

red sox 777 posted...

That's not how a lot of people see it. ANYTHING that repeals Obamacare AUTOMATICALLY replace it with something better because Obamacare is bad. This is the line of thinking that the left needs to understand.

If this is true, why does keeping Obamacare poll so much higher than any replacement the Republicans have offered?

Because people don't like the details of the proposed bills. But it doesn't really matter, because after this is all done, people will just remember that they repealed Obamacare, and it was really hard.
---

Of course some people will feel that way. Not all though.

And given the disinformation campaign that has plagued the ACA since it was being drafted, a lot of people have a warped impression of what it actually is. If the healthcare market goes into a decline you don't think there's not going to be a backlash against this "repeal"?
---

red sox 777 posted...

people will just remember that they repealed Obamacare, and it was really hard.

People will remember that the Republicans passed a bill that helped raise their premiums.
The hardline "REPEAL OBAMACARE AT ALL COSTS" will love it.
The rest will be pissed and blame the Republicans.
---

LordoftheMorons posted...

velocycloraptor posted...

I did and always have voted. If you voted for Hillary Clinton over Bernie you don't get to pull the "care about uninsured" card. And if people keep preferring to try to shame non or third party voters into supporting people they absolutely cannot stand and don't agree with rather than appealing to them on policy then the dems will continue to lose and the gop sociopaths will continue to win. Hell, you might even get a ton of support for a centrist if they were even willing to reform our elections so that it wasn't first past the post or entirely funded by interests making us an oligarchy. Because then at least people would have the hope of one day actually being represented.

Neither Bernie nor Hillary was getting single payer through Congress (and Bernie was assuming like 5% growth to make his math work) so you can cool it with the false equivalence

politics is not a game

peoples lives are not a game

being pragmatic is supporting what is right, fighting for what is right, and compromising when you HAVE to to get something better.

being a coward is supporting something horrible because you think it makes you seem more reasonable to racist sociopaths and wealthy oligarchs

velocycloraptor posted...

You: "I want to have steak for dinner."

U.S. Electorate: "Well, we don't have any steak but I can make pasta if you want, or I guess there's some rotten bananas sitting in the cupboard."

You: "UGH, it doesn't matter, if it's not steak it's garbage!"

U.S. Electorate: "Okay, enjoy your rotting bananas."


me, dumbass: "all people should have healthcare"

you, wise: "I think only 15 million should not have healthcare"

you wanna talk pragmatic? Bernie supported universal healthcare. and he voted for obamacare because it was better and all he could get.

you wanna talk cowardice? all the dems who supported obamacare but did not support universal healthcare. but who is blamed as being the the problem? bernie.

I voted for Bernie in the Illinois primary, actually. I voted for Hillary in the general because I am a mature adult who doesn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I would fucking love universal healthcare, but I recognize it's not going to happen for several years at least. Had Hillary won the general we would have AT THE WORST an extension of the status quo of Obamacare, which would have been measurably better than whatever abomination the Republicans in Congress are going to force on us.
---