Board 8 > ~~Japanese History~~ Mafia Topic 7 - I would have mourned my loss of life

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm asking nicely as well. We have 48 hours + 24 + 48.

Mind you after the no lynch we should have narrowed the field to Gravy, Myself and which ever one of death / dowolf is more likely to lynch me.

So I'd prefer as much time as possible to ensure we don't screw this up dowolf.
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You sound rather certain both you and I will be alive at f3.
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you can't shoot gravy.

it's a liquid.

silly gravy.
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greengravy294 posted...

You sound rather certain both you and I will be alive at f3.

At this moment. Gravy trumpeting that I must be scum because I voted off red and onto him right before getting back on red. Yeah, if you are town, we will be in end game together and as much as it pains me to say it, it will be my job to convince YOU not to lynch me. Of course, that is, if after rereading the game I come to the conclusion you are the most town out of the remaining players.

Scum could kill me tonight, but that would be stupid since I'm now the only one receiving any suspicion.

Scum could kill you. And then that would make it look like I was worried you'd lynch me cause I'm scum. Bonus points for whichever scum is dowolf/death.
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To be perfectly frank I'm expecting a dowolf gravy sbell final. Based on the fact that death is more confident that gravy is scum and not sbell.

But I'm not going to continue hypothesizing.

I'll have a lot to read through tomorrow.
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thanks

will be working first, but after that I am free to scour the archives and see the context of events (like the red lynch or sbells day1 votes)
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oh there was a 2nd page I somehow missed
my post was a response to dowolf delaying his NL for me

and I wouldnt even start hypothesizing deaths
scum can do one kill or the other and we'd forever WIFOM whether or not it made someone look good or bad
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sidenote
its fucking annoying to ctrl+f for 'VI' and 'red'
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htaeD posted...

sidenote
its fucking annoying to ctrl+f for 'VI' and 'red'

VI was a pain. I found 13n helped when just looking for reds posts though.

And you're right, I was WIFOMing it up last night, unnecessarily.
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Sbell
- day1 he disagrees with plum that pez is giving off an overly helpful scum vibe, yet he does make efforts to point out posts of Pez that bother him and votes him early on.
- he also, like he reminded us, voted red day1 because he felt red was playing it safe. this was after Chris called red town and Sbell accused Chris of defending a scumbuddy. He dropped pez entirely for this too.
At least until day2 when he votez Pez right before KBm comes up with her claim. That is at least good timing and he doesnt get tempted by the Scare/Plum mess. (Though Pez was sacrificeable by now and looked pretty bad after day1, I cant see it as less than a nultell)
Less good is the fact that he didnt do much during end of day1. He kept asking people what they would do if Oddity flipped town and saying he was torn on Oddity. Not a condemning stance, but it feels like he just wanted to say 'I told you so' later on.
- He starts calling VI scum too day2. Would be more decent if everyone else wasnt doing the same by now. It didnt matter much on a day with a certain lynch anyway.

- Day3 though he pushes Gravy first, using his continuous attacks on Pez as proof of his reads being good for town. Then he shifts gears and chases Sceptile for his assassin 'slip'. When Sceptile brings up VI (who deliberately put attention on himself), Sbell startes to shows doubts about VI being scum.
He stays on Sceptile after he revealed he was slept with. He also assumes the Prosty is town and wants it to claim. He also asks for a massclaim. Finally someone points out that Sbell voted red day1 but that his opinions on red havent gotten an update since then. Sbell just copies his post from day1 about red.
This one btw.

Ok I just read through all of RED which is literally just Page 4 of Topic 2. after his replace in he provided no content other than confusion and in Topic 2 he did nothing until Page 4 where he finally announced he'd caught up, and gave nearly no opinions on anything other than "This person has done nothing, That person has done nothing" Gives a blow by blow of Oddity / Sceptile but not an opinion, mentions the Scare/Chris feud but not an opinion and then throws shade at me for thinking both Scare and Chris are town.
Now lets pretend that I am not SBELL and I am just looking at Red's body of work. It oozes, "I need to post to look like i'm trying and that i've read the game but i need to be careful cause I replaced into someone with a lot of suspicion on them already and I dont want to go down with that ship." I am not throwing counter attacks at Red. Red legit looks BAD when you go through everything he hasn't done this game so far. And now he's not going to be around all day?
I for one have at least put myself out there and formed opinions on some folks. Red played it safe.
##Unvote
##Vote: Red

cont'd
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- But he keeps staying on sceptile and claims to be a BG at this point. He also says he doesnt remember why he protected VI. May mean nothing, but I feel its a point that needed to be noted. Based on his day2 comments about roleblocks, if Sbell is scum, he must have been planning this claim for some time. He could theoretically get away with it for 2 nights (blind roleblock night1, roleblock on KBM night2). Either way the claim didnt seem to have anything to do with him wanting to lynch sceptile. So I dont know why he'd claim it now as scum... other than maybe worrying about not getting a powerclaim in while town didnt have all of its power claimed.

- Okay then dowolf begins his push on red. No need to pick red when Scare and Gravy didnt look good either. So dowolf is the most town. Plum meanwhile pressures Scare and Bell shows interest in this too. Notedly, he assumes Scare will claim vanilla. I found this strange then and stranger now. He never answered me why he did this either (work was probably keeping his time on the board limited too, he barely posts in this hour).
And it comes, I vote red and so does Plum. Sbell says he is down for lynching red, and he calls everyone on that lynch town. But he also says he doesnt like anyone up for lynching right now (Gravy, Scare, I assume Sceptile as well) and keeps his options open. He keeps saying red is equally as bad as sceptile and claims to comit to red. But drops immediately to jump down on Gravy. He back away from Gravy too quite easily at that... after sceptile unvotes Gravy to put red back in the lead. By the time he does vote red, Red obviously is going to be the lynch. The wait was long enough after his Gravy unvote to see that.

not much to gleam from day4 and day4
day4s lynch was set in stone even if Plum waited to reveal his info
day5 everyone wanted to lynch scare

all in all, I can see a scumbell in here. However I wont make a judgment call until I've checked Gravy's posts, especially in relation to the red lynch (and I shall check Dowolfs too, just to be 100 % sure of myself)..

Not like anyone wants to NL this early, right?
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also thats true Dowolf, but nobody ever says 'red13n'

they just say 'red'
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dont know why i confused sbell for dowolf there
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That's twice you've confused people now. But we won't hold it against you.
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Also that's a fair assessment of my game play. You didn't push it towards one side or another.

I'm open to answer any questions you may have on how I played this game death. I am at the office though so be patient.
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sorry, transitioned back to my home (sweet sweet vacation time)

kay I will ask
why did you seem to forget about red (and VI) for so long?
or to put it in a less assuming manner, what made you pursue Pez over red again day2? and Gravy day3?
(I can see why you went after sceptile)
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htaeD posted...

sorry, transitioned back to my home (sweet sweet vacation time)

kay I will ask
why did you seem to forget about red (and VI) for so long?
or to put it in a less assuming manner, what made you pursue Pez over red again day2? and Gravy day3?
(I can see why you went after sceptile)

Red after my initial suspicion day1 lured me into a sense of contentment with his reactions to my vote on him and then I wasn't really picking up anything further from him, but that might be mainly cause his content was lacking.

VI, remember I assumed was Town after day 1 just biding his time, unfortunately he continued to bide and then would show up with very little. There we many inactives this game. Red replaced in on inactive Leo and then, vi was inactive, Lolo was inactive and gravy replaced in. It's hard to continually probe people that don't participate.

I pursued Pez because he stuck out the most. I feel he was my strongest read especially the way he reacted to my reasoning for being able to see right through him.

As for Gravy, he replaced in for Lolo who was antagonizing the game with his reluctance to appease any requests for feelings opinions, etc. He finally posted a huge post just before leaving the game. Lolo did not sit well with me and gravy took over that position. I need a big reread of him today because I truly have been uncertain. When I switched to him amidst the red lynch it was because what he said was so uncharacteristic of him in regards to me. We do not get along in mafia games. He does not "believe me" ever and he certainly doesn't swap into a game and announce to the game he likes me (if I'm remembering correctly). So that made me immediately shoot to "this boy scum" which was the reason for my swap. He responded. I went back to Red. Timing or otherwise wasn't a factor as others are stating.
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fair enough on VI
day1 he doesnt do a lot usually

and yeah just found Lolo's list

---Strongly town---
Lolo: Nothing more trustworthy in a game of mafia than your own role PM.
KBM: Even though I like longshot conspiracy theories there ain't anything here to base one off of.
Death: Feels town to me; and is the player playing I've had the most experience with.
---Weakly town---
Dowolf: Have liked his arguments today for the most part. The one I didn't like was when he was saying a pez lynch would tell everyone nothing.
Plum: The long pauses for both Scare and Plum during that time reflect poorly on both, though of the two Plum seems more like town to me.
SBell: You're about as "neutral" as it comes, SBell. Stop being Swiss.
---inactive "pot calling kettle black" scumleans---
Phoenix: Feel slightly better about than red or VI, seems more genuine, but less... present, overall.
Red (Replaced Leo): Does he usually not vote? Not a fan, not seen much from him besides telling me off.
VeryInsane: Namedropped a lot d1 as people expecting better. Not seeing anything glaringly wrong here, just inactivity.
---of players that have actually played scumleans---
Scare: Pretty much solely on today's actions. Believe he did this as a scum gambit (and has the balls to do that).
Sceptile: Hasn't redeemed himself. Major shift between him on day 1 and day 2. Day 1 hammed up the pissiness knowing it would make him seem town. It's completely gone from his attitude today, his first post in particular is incredibly passive, completely voteless, goes from wanting Scare to be lynched first to confirming it being a lie giving ~80% odds on town.
pezloco: Scum. End.

at first glance, I cant find anything too wrong about it, aside from having only 1 actual suspect (pez doesnt really count at that point), but he could have gone either way on VI and red and I dont like that I cant say more about that

also nice of you to also answer my point about you dropping Gravy's vote so quickly, forgot to turn that into a question
I havent gotten to Gravy in detail yet, but I dont recall Gravy saying anything that notable as a response to your vote, just more anger
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It was the anger directed at me for a post or two.
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less to say about Gravy

for most of day3 he promised to read up and failed to do so, or wasnt motivated to do so.
he parked his vote on me mostly based on gut on one post he saw of me
he didnt really come into action until sceptile revealed his prosty scan and he started questioning things. to his credit he noticed the stagnation of the day (though I feel Dowolf did something about it first)
he dropped his vote from me and moved to Scare. maybe to support me (since I was trying to get Scare to claim at the time), or to buddy up to me. I dont know

then he takes a nap (allegedly) and returns to see him tied with red, claims and says this in the next post

dont blame you guys for wanting to lynch an inactive dude, but i've basically shown up so i mean, pretty poor pretenses here

if i go down i presume scum is actually protecting me. just a hunch. probably 1/3 scum on me to force this claim.

cant tell if red is actually shit at mafia or just wants me out for whatever reason. for all the "mafia legend" shit he's literally never shown up in a game. all he's done is whine that i wasnt readily excited to catch up because im a busy dude and theorycraft. like i dont really know if this makes him scum at all. it perplexes the shit out of me

dowolf i think might be mafia, but i think he's town. but i always feel like he's town. i like how he talks, i guess? nothing more than gut here. if he's town that'd be cool though.

kindof wasting space at the bottom there, and taking a null stand against red even though he's tied
its commendable maybe. but I cant deny I have been wondering if Gravy was reluctant to vote since he didnt want red dead.
doesnt make that much sense tho, if Gravy was the scumroleblocker, he and red would know who was the more valuable one

Then in a bizarre twist, he votes VI instead of Red. And he definitely wasnt out of danger yet at this point

sbell is someone who said things i had been thinking so i actually trust him a tad

vi was that third read but he's been basically invisible, so i'm thinking he could be scum -- players who are visible but someone that never actually says anything of any note or actual value (in terms of being inflammatory, controversial, etc). like i actually think i am right on vi here. all i can really characterize vi is that he has been a shit stirrer. enough to get stuff going, enough to be visible and hide behind the 'inactive' slots which lmao b8 always falls on their own swords.

so yeah lets do that.

##unvote:
##vote: "" very insane ""

well to actually clarify i actually trust sbell alot. if im wrong about this well whatever! LOL

he'd have no reason to try and special VI when lynching red would do just as well
probably wouldnt have taken off anyway
he claims he isnt confident in Red, but at this point it doesnt look like he's trying to save scum (or doing a very bad job at it)
maybe Gravy felt not voting Red would make people more sympathetic to him

also this was the post that got Sbell to vote Gravy
and this

sbell we literally havent spoken in years and like, lmao you dont know me well enough to say any of that regardless

maybe one day you'll like, and i'm talking in 2020, stop pretending to be some all knowing avatar of my "habits" after i pass the age of 30. because the 20's didn't really work out. but i mean you tunnel me every game so /shrug

(had the wrong post in memory)
and you said

I said know you "enough".

That doesn't have to be a lot.

##Unvote

Feeling better.

I can see why you would unvote him now, but your post doesnt read to me like you were still defending your vote
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also the anger was also directed at VI I see now

okay heres an example i dont know what the fuck you've done this day so have a nice day BITCH

and I wanted to bring something else up but now i forgot, blah
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And really what do I gain (as scum) by pulling that maneuver (red/gravy votes)? If you ask dowolf he'd say it's a risk to try to save a teammate (because dowolf likes to pick and choose the risks that make sense to his existing argument) but that's just foolish. Stay on red and I still look good. Sure one more scum down but then I continue to stay under the radar as roleblocker. Why would I draw more attention to myself.

I might be a rusty mafia (game not affiliation) player but I'm not stupid. So a little credit please
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this is just an answer to that scenario
but seeing as how Gravy was accumulating votes, scumyou might have seen it as an allowable risk
especially with VI's vote still waiting in the wings (VI definitely made posts that indicated that he was leaning to voting Gravy)

Bleh I was liking gravy a little more but now... I don't know. @_@

think that was also what i wanted to bring up, or at least showcase

done with gravy now, not much to say for his day4/5 either
except that he seemed to have turned scare into a suspect early on
and he was still allowing for the chance that sceptile could be scum until VI flipped
but since he did accuse VI before VI got masterplum'd, Gravy looks a little better than I remembered him being

still, Dowolf is next
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Dowolf is also where I need the most reading. I don't like focusing on gravy, personally and I've been stuck only being able to address you right now, I'll be able to do more tonight after work.

I do want to say death that of the 3 you are the best right now since you like me are trying to do work where both gravy and dowolf came in and said "well no lynch and kill sbell, that's game"
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If I was to simply go with intuition I'd say Dowolf is the final scum. I have no logic that really dictates this. But yes Death cited that I felt strongly that Sbell was town. And man my gut feelings day 1 were actually on point. Right on VI, somewhat on red, and sceptile as well.

Though iirc didn't I say I thought sceptile was town death? (End of day 3) But the scan didn't initially clear him. Just reading what I said in your wall death on my lunch.
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I'd be honestly floored if death was scum as well. I think the game can agree on this though
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Gravy
day3 yeah

I might have worded myself badly
you didnt suspect sceptile day3, but you did bring up points that allowed him to be scum despite him not getting up

not bad in itself, and certainly not coming from someone who voted VI
but I still felt I had to make note of it
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though I will ask you then Gravy
would dowolf push red so suddenly if he was his scumpartner?
he didnt do just that he asked others to help vote red too
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Well I mean sure. Reads can be wrong. Anyway lunch is done, later.
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Could have been a bus, right?
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Lunch was 4 minutes apparently...
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greengravy294 posted...

Could have been a bus, right?

Ill see when I get there
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nah i got no idea why you would do what you did with the red and gravy votes, either as town or scum. Seems more likely you thought Red was dead-to-rights, then realized he wasn't, then proceeded to realize that yes in fact he was.
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dowolf posted...

nah i got no idea why you would do what you did with the red and gravy votes, either as town or scum. Seems more likely you thought Red was dead-to-rights, then realized he wasn't, then proceeded to realize that yes in fact he was.

You are choosing to believe the one scenario in which you can paint me as scum and the one problem here is that you aren't opening your mind to the possibility that I am NOT scum. So if you are town, bad, bad dowolf. And if you are scum, well then that just makes sense so just keep doing you. Death gravy and I will figure this out on our own.
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you're welcome to try to convince me why gravy or death is the last scum.

convincing me that I am the last scum seems far less fruitful, but as I said before, you be you.
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dowolf posted...

you're welcome to try to convince me why gravy or death is the last scum.

convincing me that I am the last scum seems far less fruitful, but as I said before, you be you.

Really putting in a A+ effort here aren't you. Town usually wants to make the right choice not the easy choice.

You are choosing to lynch based on role meta and votal count and not considering you could be wrong. Someone so confident must clearly know exactly what's necessary for their faction to win the game.
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well, there's also the incongruity of night actions.

tbh if it weren't for Plum I would genuinely think that scum didn't have a roleblocker (would be really interesting -- scum has no blocker, but town's only protection is also a roleblocker), but, well. Here we are. Hopefully Plum wasn't just lying about his night actions for no particular reason~

You are correct; I am confident. I have seen no particularly good reason not to be, and you seem content not to give me one.
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Real quick, I should be working not researching.

dowolf 7/18/2017 11:17:32 PM#189

Whoops -- thought this was starting tomorrow for some reason.

From: Phoenix
Konnichiwa watashi no nakama.


##Vote: Phoenix

"Watashi" ka?! Sonna hito janasasou yakedo... Sore ni, idai-naru jinbutu ha jibun wo idai to yobanai yarou?

(apologies to those of you who can't read Japanese. Suffice to say that nothing I have written in Japanese is of any import)

(also "motto nemuri ni tsukimashita"? what are you trying to say?)

Do not like Plum immediately going after Pez for a "slip." It feels too much like low-hanging fruit.

From: Plum
He is always scum


Hey! I will have you know I am on a two game town streak awwwwww
yeah

Man voting people for not making consequential posts 2 hours into d1 I feel like this is the apocalypse.

also fuck the house i'm in's Internet. But that's neither here nor there.

Dowolfs first post of anyhting of substance.

Votes for phoenix for saying Hi in Japanese in a Japanese History game. Throws hate towards Plum for a GOOD attack on Pez early.

And then feels the need to defend himself to what is clearly not serious banter from Tom and Plum (town and town) about voting him. Only scum would be concerned with how they come across to whom they know to be town THAT early.

Already looking STELLAR for dowolf. i'll do more later.
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dowolf posted...

well, there's also the incongruity of night actions.

tbh if it weren't for Plum I would genuinely think that scum didn't have a roleblocker (would be really interesting -- scum has no blocker, but town's only protection is also a roleblocker), but, well. Here we are. Hopefully Plum wasn't just lying about his night actions for no particular reason~

You are correct; I am confident. I have seen no particularly good reason not to be, and you seem content not to give me one.

I'd say thanks for claiming scum, however the verdict is not yet out on gravy. You just happen to be looking much worse at this moment in time.
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Obellisk posted...

Throws hate towards Plum for a GOOD attack on Pez early.

huh? Pretty sure Plum was talking about me there.

Also, I was making fun of Phoenix's Japanese. "Watashi," in this context, sounds really meek; "watashi no nakama" should be simply "nakama-tachi"; Google Translate told him to translate "great" as "idai" but "idai" means "great" as in "Lincoln was a great president."
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dowolf, you (admittedly) "joke" vote Phoenix and leave your vote on him for a LONG time even when supposedly truly attacking PEZ on your own (i'm now through about 4-5 pages of Day 2). However you NEVER vote him. Infact you vote for only Town, except for the case of your final vote which is on LOLO (now Gravy) and we dont know his allignment.

now I will say that Red shits on you for not doing ANYTHING up until this point however he then also does the same to Lolo (now gravy) and both of you are possible scum so this is a big Nulltell and does nothing for or against you.

What i dont understand is why you gave yourself a legit reason to vote for Pez and questions his allignment in multiple posts yet didn't unvote your later admitted joke vote on phoenix and put real pressure on someone you were suspecting.

Why did you do this dowolf?
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I will admit that confidence always worries me
also keep getting distracted, had to watch the new GOt episode
how could I not
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htaeD posted...

I will admit that confidence always worries me
also keep getting distracted, had to watch the new GOt episode
how could I not

Doing that tonight. Very excited
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More notes on Dowolf:

Plum says:

Dowolf popping in for a useless joke is probably a scum slip. I've made that mistake before where you are consciously not contributing as scum, but then a funny presents itself and you forget you're supposed to be not posting

Town suspecting dowolf.

Tom says:

Decent points on dowolf, I could get behind pushing him.

and ALSO says:

Scep doesn't specifically feel townish but he doesn't bug me either. Not that interested in going after either at the time being.

Town Tom suspecting dowolf and also saying he wont back dowolf's current horse (town sceptile)


Tom continues:

in fact, let's be slightly proactive!

Lolo is probably still my #1 target but since nobody's going for him, let's put that vote somewhere maybe more useful

##Unvote: Lolo
##Vote: dowolf

Vote could just as easily have gone to Phoenix or pez or maybe VI but I feel like dowolf is the most likely to step up his game if I vote him wrongly.

Tom names TWO, possibly THREE scum in this post with his vote on dowolf, coming off of lolo(now gravy). And Tom was killed Night1.


officially through Topic 2, Page 5.

And nothing is helping dowolf's case.
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okay
- Dowolf doesnt say much day1 (inversely, he has a lot of posts on later days), day2 he has the whole letsnotlynchPez because he wasnt counterclaimed deal. which while not a good reason to not lynch Pez, was far too brittle to be a proper defense of Pez. Dowolf does have a bad case of the Itoldyousos at the start of day2. But do did Pez. two scum doing that at the same time would be risky

btw that reminds me that sbell did seem to suspect Plum too day2, but he didnt let go of Pez even then

day3 sceptile starts to push dowolf, but it doesnt really take off. red never really talks much about dowolfs actions day2 either, during or after
VI at least says he likes Dowolf more after Scare reveals he was bluffing

will continue this later
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im home! taidaima
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greengravy294 posted...

im home! taidaima

Okaeri! Welcome home.

Yeah google, bitches.
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Obellisk posted...

dowolf, you (admittedly) "joke" vote Phoenix and leave your vote on him for a LONG time even when supposedly truly attacking PEZ on your own (i'm now through about 4-5 pages of Day 2). However you NEVER vote him. Infact you vote for only Town, except for the case of your final vote which is on LOLO (now Gravy) and we dont know his allignment.

now I will say that Red shits on you for not doing ANYTHING up until this point however he then also does the same to Lolo (now gravy) and both of you are possible scum so this is a big Nulltell and does nothing for or against you.

What i dont understand is why you gave yourself a legit reason to vote for Pez and questions his allignment in multiple posts yet didn't unvote your later admitted joke vote on phoenix and put real pressure on someone you were suspecting.

Why did you do this dowolf?

What is your point?
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Plum proceeds to consider me town later. What Tom says is not magically fact.
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I asked a question. You ignored it and responded rudely.

And two confirmed town players views of you is certainly worth a look. To disavow confirmed towns opinions on remaining players is foolish.


Dowolf, why are you getting so aggressive here? As town you have just as much responsibility here to properly find the correct lynch. So if you want to continue to be belligerent and refuse to help... you only hurt yourself.
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