Current Events > Who do you side with in the Angry Joe vs Subscribers debate?

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is actually an issue that has occured with lots of people since the explosion of "Online content creators" started in the early 2000s, but Joe is probably the biggest and loudest (Maybe with the exception of Spoony) so it's the best example.


If you haven't heard of him, Angry Joe is a Hispanic game critic not to be confused with AVGN who makes 20-30 minute long "Angry Review" videos with surprising production value for estentially 2 guys in their house. That blends Youtube comedy skits with serious critical review.

He became hugely popular, has over 3 million subscribers as well as his own site with merchendize, is one of the most popular Twich users in the world and has been earning 6 figures comfortably for years.

But then controversy struck. His videos have allegedly dropped in quality and factually dropped in amount. He also stopped just doing Game Reviews and now does a lot of Movie Reviews and vlogs about Game of Thrones.

He then stated that he is going on a "4 month vacation" from doing Angry Game Reviews because they take too much work and nothing good has come out.

His fanbase got furious, hundreds of thousands unsubbed, swarmed his social media, e-mail, real mail and comment sections with bile and death threats and now all of his videos get 50% disike ratios. He has now disabled comments and the like bar (after swearing in 2014 that he would never do so) and even made a video begging people to stop being so mad at him.

This has lead to a debate: Who is in the right?

Are the angry subscribers right? Joe is a content creator, he's making content they don't like so they are using their first amendment rights to explain that. Joe needs to grow up and handle that. They're the ones giving him their time and money.

Or is Joe in the right? Its his channel and are "fans" being nothing more than entitled babies for screaming angrily at him and throwing tantrums because he changed his format to something he prefers for his own channel?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/4680297/a-j-confusion-o.gif

I'm not into Youtube drama but as a Bioware fan I find it facinating because it reminds me so much of the ME3 ending arguments. Only with people instead of crap endings.

But who does CE side with? the millions of the nerds? or the one successful nerd?
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I don't understand the obsession with YouTubers at all and who cares if he wants a break he doesn't owe anyone anything.
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Erm, Joe? It's his channel, he can do what he wants. No one's forcing viewers to watch his content, and they aren't paying for it.

Virus731 posted...

I don't understand the obsession with YouTubers at all and who cares if he wants a break he doesn't owe anyone anything.

The millions of fans and hundreds of thousands of subscribers who have quit his channel or are now bombarding it with furious bile on an hourly basis care.

Playing Devils Advocate for them, some of these guys have followed joe for years, they've bought his T-shirt, they've supported him on Twich, they turned off adblock for him. And in response he has actively lied, done less work and made it clear he doesn't really care what they think.

Thats gotta sting.
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Ultimately Angry Joe built his channel off of a style that Youtube has been made unprofitable. I don't really think he prefers the new style, but you need to chug out daily 10+ videos to stay relevant in the algorithms and keep up with watch minutes. There are several Youtubers this has happened to, and I've seen many of them simply put for focus into things other than their channel, and their fans have understood.

In this situation, Angry Joe can no longer make money off of what built his brand and brought in most of his fans. Eventually, his popularity may wane as he makes this new type of content. Or at the very least he will lose the older fanbase.

I think it's time for him to follow other online personalities and look for other opportunities outside of Youtube. His generation is being phased out by the algorithms, like it or not.
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How is watching YouTubers people's livelihood?

"Hey guys, I'm taking a four month break."

"Cool, see you again in four months. Have a good one!"

Instead they turn rabid, unsubscribe immediately and then proceed to downvote or negatively comment on anything the guy ever did? Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with these people?
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neither.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Krp4DYLfw
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Playing Devils Advocate for them, some of these guys have followed joe for years, they've bought his T-shirt, they've supported him on Twich, they turned off adblock for him. And in response he has actively lied, done less work and made it clear he doesn't really care what they think.

Thats gotta sting

But at the end of the day his subscribers never really paid for any contractual service. And they still have access to all of his older videos. The guy can do whatever he wants, he'll just get significantly less traffic for it. I'm all for being a little bummed that someone you watch frequently is essentially closing up shop, but sending death threats and harassing him on social media is incredibly immature.
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He handled it poorly but ultimately it's his channel, if he wants to take a break he can take a ****ing break. Unless you're actively paying him through Patreon or something for these reviews he now isn't going to do (and from a quick glance I can't find any reference to him having one) then he owes you nothing.

Jonny2284 posted...

He handled it poorly but ultimately it's his channel, if he wants to take a break he can take a ****ing break. Unless you're actively paying him through Patreon or something (and from a quick glance I can't find any reference to him having one) then he owes you nothing.

It would be kinda douchey if he had a Pateron. He's huge on Youtube/Twitch and doesn't actually make games. He just reviews them.

That would be penny pinching
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Anyway, as for the temper of his fanbase, I think you'd be hard pressed to find somebody that sides with the crazed fanboys.

Personally, I used to watch AJ and his content has gotten worse imo. I don't think it's lazier, I simply thinks he's bad at making quality daily uploads, and it's obvious he makes uploads just to stay relevant in the algorithms.
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The fans are right. The fans turn to him for video game reviews. He doesn't do those anymore so people are right to complain.

It might be different if his movie reviews were good, but they just suck ass. It's just three or four dudes rambling off script about a movie. That's something I do IRL. That's not something entertaining to watch.

To conclude, fuck anyone who gives death threats, but overall the fans have a point. Personally I haven't even looked at his channel since like March or so. If he wants to piss away his fan base he is entitled to do that, but he has no right to get mad at fans when he isn't giving the content they want.
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Jonny2284 posted...

He handled it poorly but ultimately it's his channel, if he wants to take a break he can take a ****ing break. Unless you're actively paying him through Patreon or something for these reviews he now isn't going to do (and from a quick glance I can't find any reference to him having one) then he owes you nothing.

Even then Patreon is donation driven from my understanding. There's still no legal or even ethical responsibility to continue producing the same type of video, so long as you as a creator realize the donation money will stop rolling in if you change the formula significantly.
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TheBiggerWiggle posted...

It might be different if his movie reviews were good, but they just suck ass.

His older ones were actually pretty good imo.

The ones where it was just him, and formatted a lot like his game reviews (though there were no skits).

I'm convinced he has the four others there to pump out minutes a lot faster than he could do by himself.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

It would be kinda douchey if he had a Pateron. He's huge on Youtube/Twitch and doesn't actually make games. He just reviews them.

then it's douchey for tens of thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of youtubers. having a Patreon in addition to your youtube channel is pretty common practice for youtubers of all genres nowadays.

Yeah but not many who already make bank.

Most of the guys who have Paterons are guys who were barely living who then after ad revenue got smashed had to say "Either you support me or content stops/slows because I'll have to get a day job."

Or alternatively make content AND also make games or films as well.
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No idea what it's about. Don't want to know, or even care.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Or alternatively make content AND also make games or films as well.

again, what is it that you think making games has to do with having a Patreon?

Its less douchey when a guy goes "I want to make games but can't make a game AND do videos, so if you can support me on Pateron I can do both or else the video out put will cease/slow" said in nicer words.

Than

"Hey give me money lolz"
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"the costumer is always right", except I doubt most of his subscribers actually pay him anything. If they don't like it, stop watching. It is a shitty thing to do if he has a patreon or something similar.
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Both are right.

1. The content creator has the right to put out the content that they want to.

2. The subscriber has the right to choose whether or not they wish to support current and future content from the creator.

If the content creator chooses to change what they do then nothing can stop them from doing so. The subscriber has a choice whether or not they wish to support said content creator.

A subscriber can obviously leave behind feedback about if they like the direction of the content, but they cannot control the content. the creator is in control.

What neither can do or should do is whine about the other side. The content creator should not expect 100% positive feedback from any sort of alterations and change of directions. They should realize that sometimes they can make a bad decision which will ultimately cost them subscribers.

While obviously the subscriber does not own the soul of the content creator and does not own the content itself. If they dont like it anymore then don't subscriber anymore, it costs nothing from them and they signed no contract saying that they MUST always stay subscribed to this person.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Its less douchey when a guy goes "I want to make games but can't make a game AND do videos, so if you can support me on Pateron I can do both or else the video out put will cease/slow" said in nicer words.

Than

"Hey give me money lolz"

that doesn't answer my question. i have absolutely no clue where you are getting anyone making a game from. it has no relevance to this situation whatsoever.

You asked why it would be douchey to have a pateron when other youtubers do

I pointed out that many (if not most) paterons are actually quite reasonable.

Either

Very small channels whose paterons are pocket change.

Or medium channels that can't survive due to ad revenue loss.

Or people who have multiple projects who need pateron support to manage doing everything.

Joe is not any of those 3.

He has one project, is making bank and is a huge channel in his genre.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Its less douchey when a guy goes "I want to make games but can't make a game AND do videos, so if you can support me on Pateron I can do both or else the video out put will cease/slow" said in nicer words.

Than

"Hey give me money lolz"

I guess that's your opinion, but asking for donations from a centralized platform like Patreon in order to support and improve the quality of future content is completely reasonable and not douchey at all. Look at someone like Jim Sterling. Like him or not, he has a Patreon, and the donations that roll in from that site allow him to produce weekly videos significantly higher in quality than before he had the Patreon. He does nothing other than make video game reviews, and he does a good job of it.
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Virus731 posted...

I don't understand the obsession with YouTubers at all and who cares if he wants a break he doesn't owe anyone anything.

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MrPeppers posted...

I guess that's your opinion, but asking for donations from a centralized platform like Patreon in order to support and improve the quality of future content is completely reasonable and not douchey at all.

If you say so

Let's go support Gates and Musk's new pateron's then.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

If you say so

Let's go support Gates and Musk's new pateron's then.

Wait, Bill Gates and Elon Musk are career YouTubers now?
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I get wanting a content creator to create content you like.

I don't get being angry when he doesn't.

Internet folk get really weird when they don't get what they want.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

and you are incorrect about the types of youtubers who have Patreons. literally every type of youtuber has Patreons.

Oh cool please link me PewDiePie's Pateron and JustinBieber's pateron then
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he's free to do whatever the fuck he wants, of course.
but the fans are also free to just not watch it and unsub if they don't like it, as well as criticize.

but hate comments and death threats are a bit much
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DuranOfForcena posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

DuranOfForcena posted...

and you are incorrect about the types of youtubers who have Patreons. literally every type of youtuber has Patreons.

Oh cool please link me PewDiePie's Pateron and JustinBieber's pateron then

ITP: "every type of youtuber" means the exact same thing as "every youtuber"

I feel like you're intentionally pretending that you don't understand my point just so you can argue.

What huge Youtube channels can you name that make bank, only have 1 project and ask for a patreon?

And when you pull up that list which I doubt you will, who in it is not douchey?
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Case and point. You couldn't name a single one.
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GOATTHlEF posted...

Joe is just trying to cause drama to stay relevant. Ignore him and let him fade into obscurity.

I don't think so.

The drama has caused a loss in revenue. Less views and less subscribers is bad and he seems genuinely upset.

IF this was a marketing ploy then it has failed.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Case and point. You couldn't name a single one.

why the fuck won't you answer my question?

Because it's simutaniously a stupid leading question and also one that has already been answered.

So it's dumb on both levels and you know that, you're only repeating it for attention.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Case and point. You couldn't name a single one.

It's hard to refute anything when the term "douchey" is entirely subjective. It's like you've set yourself up to win in this entirely pointless argument before anyone even engaged you in it.
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Case in point...
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Angry Joe is a big fucking baby but his fanbase are even bigger fucking babies.

If the guy wants to take a break, he can take a break. Don't like it? Unsub and stop watching. No need to go nuts though.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

it's not any of that. it's not a stupid question,

Yes it is

it's not a leading question,

Yes it is

you haven't answered it,

Yes I have.

it's not dumb,

Yes it is

and i'm not repeating it for attention.

I don't believe you

i'm repeating it because i want you to fucking answer it.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/400-current-events/75620406/883870513
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DuranOfForcena posted...

that's not an answer to why you think making games specifically has anything to do with youtubers and Patreon.

It's about multiple projects.

The difference between

"give me money lolz"

And "Give me money so I can still maintain this standard of content and do something else at the same time."

I refuse to accept you do not have the mental capacity to understand this. A 4 year old could understand it if you used simplier words.

A metaphor. It's like someone makes you a cup of tea every day. Then suddenly says "Give me $5 for making you tea" vs the same person says "Hey I'm making Tea AND dinner now so if you can help me out that'll be great or else I might not be able to make you tea every day because of the demands of dinner service."

Simple.
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