Poll of the Day > Just started DA:O: Ultimate Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

Anything I should know about? I started the original game when it first came and got pretty far, but never beat it. Apparently the first time I played it, I missed a recruitable character somehow(I think it was some blonde chick). Just started the game as a Human Warrior with Dual Wielding focus. Also, what order should I play the DLCs? Apparently a lot of them need you to start a new game?
---

definitely stone keep 1st
---

stone keep first.

like, do it as soon as you get free reign of the map.

wait, not stone keep

stone prisoner. stone keep isn't even a thing.
---

leliana is bae

unfortunately i don't remember much else. anders has a cat and oghren falls down a lot.
---

Nade Duck posted...

leliana is bae

unfortunately i don't remember much else. anders has a cat and oghren falls down a lot.

Nah man, I got together with Morrigan the first time, and I'm going to hook up with her again because she's a hottie
---

leliana so cute tho ;-;

like i like morrigan but hnnnnng. plus i'm a sap and she's got lots of that going for her.
---

download the skip fade mod
---

DLC missions that can be accessed during the main game scale to your level and give you items that are better than anything you can find elsewhere. Do them near the beginning or close to the end, depending on your personal taste when it comes to steamrolling things will super strong characters. The standalone DLC missions should be saved until you've beaten the game.

If you want a character to tank stack defense on them, not health or armor. This means you should focus on raising their dexterity when leveling up once you have your gear and skill requirements taken care of.

Take some time to figure out how the tactic system works. Combat becomes a lot easier to manage once your whole party can fend for themselves in basic situations.
---

How should I go about playing so I don't miss the blonde haired girl?(I think that's the one I accidentally skipped recruiting the last time I played it)
---

lihlih posted...

How should I go about playing so I don't miss the blonde haired girl?(I think that's the one I accidentally skipped recruiting the last time I played it)

I don't remember a blond haired girl, but there is a blonde haired guy. He should not be a missable character in terms of meeting him.

lihlih posted...

Nade Duck posted...

leliana is bae

unfortunately i don't remember much else. anders has a cat and oghren falls down a lot.

Nah man, I got together with Morrigan the first time, and I'm going to hook up with her again because she's a hottie

That is Canon. The last dlc deals with this explicitly.
---

Dang it, TC. I am tempted to do a replay. I started a second playthrough as a Dwarven two-handed...reaver?...but loss interest soon after leaving Orzammar. I also tried an arcane warrior. Man I loved the lore in that game. I was really interested in the world of ol when Orzammar and the other ancient Dwarven thaig were linked by the Deep Roads.
---

TES_Nut posted...

lihlih posted...

Nade Duck posted...

leliana is bae

unfortunately i don't remember much else. anders has a cat and oghren falls down a lot.

Nah man, I got together with Morrigan the first time, and I'm going to hook up with her again because she's a hottie

That is Canon. The last dlc deals with this explicitly.

there are multiple ways you can hook up with morrigan, several that don't involve romancing her. so yeah the DLC is canon but doesn't necessarily mean the warden didn't get with anyone else.
---

I envy you for playing it for the first time if you are one of my favorite games.
---

lihlih posted...

How should I go about playing so I don't miss the blonde haired girl?(I think that's the one I accidentally skipped recruiting the last time I played it)

You meet lelianna at a tavern in Lothering, just don't say no when she wants to join you.
---

the character i ended up playing the most was my caste dwarven templar. (yes game, i am sure i dont want an ugly tattoo on my characters face... it's not going to ruin my "immersion")
---

JoanOfArcade posted...

I envy you for playing it for the first time if you are one of my favorite games.

---

lihlih posted...

Apparently the first time I played it, I missed a recruitable character somehow(I think it was some blonde chick).

There are no blond chicks (in the main game, anyway). The only missable female characters are Leliana (redhead) and Wynne (white-haired old lady).

Basically, to get Leliana go into the inn in Lothering (preferably as soon as possible once it's available as a location), where she'll basically fling herself at you, but you can choose whether or not to let her come with you.

To get Wynne, when you get to the Circle Tower, just pick the dialogue options that tell Wynne she can come with you, and don't bring Morrigan along (because conversation can result in Wynne attacking her/you).

The only other realistically blatantly missable character in the game is Sten, who is locked in a cage just north of Lothering, because you can walk right past him without ever seeing him or having him talk to you. And once you talk to him, you basically have to offer to break him out in exchange for having him join your party to get him as a companion.

Everyone else should at least show up as part of the main plot, though for a lot of them you can actively tell them to get lost and not recruit them if you don't want to.



lihlih posted...

Also, what order should I play the DLCs? Apparently a lot of them need you to start a new game?

Play the main game first. Then load that character into Awakening. Then load that character into Golems of Arglebargle (no, that's not it's real name, but fuck it, you'll know which one I mean), then load that character into Witch Hunt.

Leliana's Song and Darkspawn Chronicles are both stand-alone games you can play at any time, and once you beat them they actually reward you with items in the main game, but you're better off waiting to do them later for narrative reasons. Both work best if you play them right after the main game, though in both cases you could easily wait until after you've also finished Awakening/Golems/Witch Hunt.

Stone Prisoner, Warden's Keep, and Return to Ostagar are all integrated into the main game, and are pretty much accessible at any point once you get access to the full map. Each also has cool items which are useful (and in the case of Warden's Keep, it has an item stash you can use to help manage your inventory). Personally, I like to do Warden's Keep almost immediately (for utility reasons - the item stash is vital, and the Warden Commander armor just looks absolutely 110% cool), but I hold off on Return to Ostagar until I have Alistair and Wynne in my party (and then I take them and the Dog into the DLC).

Stone Prisoner is worth doing mechanically relatively early because the Helm and some of the other items are nice, but it also nets you an extra companion if you care about that sort of thing.

It's also worth noting that, while items from Return to Ostagar WILL import to later games, none of the other DLC gear will. And because of glitchy issues, you should probably take it off before the end of the game if you're going to load that same character into future games.

Additionally, if you do a Morrigan romance, there's a very good chance things will screw up flag-wise in Origins, making Witch Hunt less enjoyable, so you may want to look up workarounds for that before you start Awakening (once you fix it there, it should stay fixed from that point on, and you'll get way more out of Witch Hunt).


---

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Basically, to get Leliana go into the inn in Lothering (preferably as soon as possible once it's available as a location)

you have to go there as soon as ostagar is over and done with, iirc.

like i don't think not going there is even an option
---

helly posted...

stone keep first.

like, do it as soon as you get free reign of the map.

wait, not stone keep

stone prisoner. stone keep isn't even a thing.

I'm assuming he meant Warden's Keep, which is pretty much a MUST DO ASAP quest for most people, mostly to get access to the item storage chest.

It's also the first DLC add-on most players are likely to encounter, since the trigger for it shows up in your camp to basically demand that you buy the DLC (something a lot of people bitched pretty hard about when the game first came out).



Nade Duck posted...

leliana so cute tho ;-;

like i like morrigan but hnnnnng. plus i'm a sap and she's got lots of that going for her.

To me, Morrigan would be the worst romance option in the game, if not for the fact that you can also date someone who was actively trying to kill you 20 minutes earlier.

I like Zev as a character, but as a romance option, not so much. Even if he does allow for really interesting interactions with Isabela later.

I'm a fan of Leliana (even if it's implied she's manipulating the fuck out of you), but honestly, since I mostly play female PCs anyway, Alistair is by far the best possible romance option (and can create interesting narrative conflict later in the game).

Though Alistair can also cause a ton of heartbreak, all things considered. Whether because your relationship winds up ending for one reason or another, or because of what can potentially happen to him in DA:I...

Morrigan does make for an interesting dynamic in Witch Hunt and Inquisition, though, assuming you get that far (and bypass the flag glitch issue).



funkyfritter posted...

DLC missions that can be accessed during the main game scale to your level and give you items that are better than anything you can find elsewhere. Do them near the beginning or close to the end, depending on your personal taste when it comes to steamrolling things will super strong characters.

It's also worth noting that, for many items, you can use a glitch to level them up.

Basically, if you get a unique item when you're at a low level, it's material will be weak and its stats will scale to your level when you got it. But if you store it in your item stash in Warden's Keep, leave, then come back and take it out of the stash, it will automatically level up to your current level and be stronger stat-wise.

This doesn't work for every item, because some only have specific material tiers they can exist in at all, but it's fantastic for generic items or DLC gear that fully scales (like the Warden Commander armor).

Basically, it helps offset the fear of getting optional gear too early and having it be useless at higher levels by allowing you to effectively level it up as you go.


---

I'd play the Leliana's Song DLC ASAP. It's her backstory, and it unlocks good gear for her in the main game.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

I'm a fan of Leliana (even if it's implied she's manipulating the fuck out of you),

hey me too

except she looks like a butt until inquisition, where she is sexy af
---

helly posted...

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Basically, to get Leliana go into the inn in Lothering (preferably as soon as possible once it's available as a location)

you have to go there as soon as ostagar is over and done with, iirc.

like i don't think not going there is even an option

You have to go to Lothering, but you don't have to enter the inn. You can skip it entirely if you want.

In fact, if you're trying to speed run the game, you can go directly from Ostagar, pass through Lothering without having any major interactions or entering any buildings, and go directly north west to Bodan and the highway to trigger the next part of the game.

My point was more that, if you WANT to recruit her, it's better to do so as soon as possible (ie, right after Ostagar), because while you can generally go back to Lothering after you leave (meaning you can go back for her or Sten if you miss them the first time through), eventually (after you complete the first or second treaty mission, if I remember correctly), Lothering locks as a travel option and you can't go back there.

I'm kind of trying to be spoiler-free because he said he never finished the game first time around, and I don't know how much he remembers and how much he doesn't.


---

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

I'd play the Leliana's Song DLC ASAP. It's her backstory, and it unlocks good gear for her in the main game.

It's full of spoilers for her if you haven't finished the main game, though.

Assuming you care about the story (which you should if you're playing Dragon Age).

Most of the DLC bonus gear is better as "second playthrough" rewards anyway, giving you neat things to play with if you decide to play through again (which you should, because there are six different origins, damn it). Sure, it can help her (or you, if you're playing a Rogue) on your main run, but none of it is crucial, and all of the stand-alone DLC is designed to be played after the main game anyway.


---

speaking of morrigan and leliana, do they ever interact in inquisition?

as far as i could see, they didn't
---

Come to think of it, I think I've only played Return to Ostagar and The Stone Prisoner among the DLCs. I have but did not touch Warden's Keep, Witch Hunt, or the expansion Awakening. I'm gonna have to go back now and actually finish this game. Hopefully I can just log into Origin and install the game with all the DLCs I have. I don't want to look for my DVDs and individual files from Bioware Social.

EDIT: Completely forgot I have DA: Origins Ultimate Edition on Steam. I'm good then.
---

helly posted...

except she looks like a butt until inquisition, where she is sexy af

Maybe on PC, but she looks kind of shitty in the console versions. Like, she's kind of haggard and old under that hood (and she looks even worse for a while if you do the Mages questline).

(Then again, if you're on PC, you can mod the fuck out of what she looks like in DA:O anyway.)

And DA:I kind of shits on DA:O Leliana romances in general, IMO. Sure, they cover it with "Oh yeah, my lover's off doing their own thing" dialogue, but it kinds of kills any real hope of happily ever after for the two of them. It made her way less satisfying for me as a romance partner in retrospect. Though, to be fair, DA:I made the entire franchise less satisfying for me in retrospect, so there's that.



TES_Nut posted...

lihlih posted...

Nah man, I got together with Morrigan the first time, and I'm going to hook up with her again because she's a hottie

That is Canon. The last dlc deals with this explicitly.

It's not "canon". Even aside from the fact that you can be a female Warden (making her unromanceable), and the SJWs at BioWare would never, EVER choose a canon plotline that invalidates every female Warden (especially not after the shit they took over KotOR).

While it's true that a Warden who romanced Morrigan gets unique options in Witch Hunt (and Witch Hunt in and of itself is arguably more satisfying if you go that route), you can still max her affection in the main game as a female (or as a male who doesn't hook up with her), and she'll consider you a friend, which will carry over into how she interacts with you in Witch Hunt.

You can also play as an Orlesian Warden (ie, if you start Awakening with a new character, rather than importing someone from Origins), and she'll comment on that as well.

You don't HAVE to go into Witch Hunt with a Morrigan romance (and honestly, I've probably played it almost a dozen times, and only one of those was with a character that romanced Morrigan).


On that subject, though, I suppose an argument CAN be made that the Morrigan romance DOES have the best plot-relevant effect on Inquisition, as well as (ironically) seeming to be one of the more "happily ever after" options. Alistair also lucks out in that respect (depending on what choices you make, and how things work out for you), but Alistair can arguably also have the worst possible scenario in Inquisition with the right combination of factors (I categorically refuse to play my DA file where my Warden hooked up with Alistair and they both stayed with the Grey Wardens, because fuck you Patrick Weekes).

Leliana's sort of tragic in retrospect, and Zev's sort of inconsequential (since he doesn't show up in DA:I).

But absolutely none of this matters if you refuse to do the Dark Ritual or let someone else kill the Archdemon for you in DA:O anyway, because, well, you know.


---

ParanoidObsessive posted...

(Then again, if you're on PC, you can mod the fuck out of what she looks like in DA:O anyway.)

i don't really count that, though.

besides, i've only played it on consoles, since it's pretty much an entirely different game on PC, and i just did not like having to do all that with a mouse.

but yeah, she's pretty damn sexy in inquisition.
---

helly posted...

speaking of morrigan and leliana, do they ever interact in inquisition?

as far as i could see, they didn't

I THINK they might (my brain is fuzzy on it), but I think you basically have to find them together in the fortress at precisely the right time between specific missions for it to happen. And if so, they only trade a few lines. I could be wrong, though (it's possible the only time they interact is in the war room). I know there's no major scene between them or anything.

I DO know that if you time things right (and do the Orlesian quest line before the Warden quest line), Alistair or [insert "SECRET CHARACTER" here] will show up in the same area as Morrigan, and you can eavesdrop on them having a conversation. If you did the Dark Ritual, the Warden character will ask about "their son". So there's at least some acknowledgement of stuff from DA:O when it comes to Morrigan.


---

i have no idea if i did the dark ritual or not, tbh.

my original DA:O save has been lost for years, and i have no idea if i set anything up for DA:I with the one tool thing, or if i did what i even chose.
---

Now imagine playing through DA:O about a dozen different times, with different characters, different origins, different romances, and different choices when it came to the throne and the Dark Ritual.

Then imagine playing all of those save files through DA2, where you made different Hawkes of different classes and with different romance partners, then made different decisions at the end.

When DA:I came out and they dropped the save file system in favor of the shitty Keep webpage thing (which also counts as a negative for DA:I IMO, especially since it could have been included as a launcher with the game itself and not spun off as a stupid separate webpage that will likely eventually get shut down because EA doesn't give a fuck), I actually had to go back, check all my old files, and I made literal spreadsheet notes for every major choice so I could reconstruct every character in the Keep so I could continue those storylines in DA:I.

And then DA:I wound up being so shit I maybe played through it two and a half times before I gave up on it forever.


---

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Now imagine playing through DA:O about a dozen different times, with different characters, different origins, different romances, and different choices when it came to the throne and the Dark Ritual.

yeah. did that.

https://puu.sh/x6WB9/51ba2af727.png

the only thing i didn't do was one of the last DLCs, i believe.

but there was still the save i'd consider "main".
---

ParanoidObsessive posted...

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

I'd play the Leliana's Song DLC ASAP. It's her backstory, and it unlocks good gear for her in the main game.

It's full of spoilers for her if you haven't finished the main game, though.

Assuming you care about the story (which you should if you're playing Dragon Age).

Most of the DLC bonus gear is better as "second playthrough" rewards anyway, giving you neat things to play with if you decide to play through again (which you should, because there are six different origins, damn it). Sure, it can help her (or you, if you're playing a Rogue) on your main run, but none of it is crucial, and all of the stand-alone DLC is designed to be played after the main game anyway.

I suppose a good compromise is to play it after you get her "loyalty mission"

just checked. i don't think i did leilianas song, or witch hunt
---

helly posted...

but there was still the save i'd consider "main".

I usually consider my "main" to be the first one I do, where I'm completely unspoiled, usually make a number of mistakes (like never even finding Fenris and losing Isabela in DA2!), and generally go off gut reaction for everything.

So my "main" for DA:O was the one where my female Noble hooked up with Leliana, tried to make Alistair king but got fed up with his tantrum at the Meet so we exiled him and he became a drunk, and where I refused to do the Dark Ritual and got [replacement Alistair] killed by the Archdemon.

But I also tend to have a run I liked best, because it seemed to flow the best, or fit the themes of the game more effectively, or just because it tied into other things later on.

So my "favorite" for DA:O was the one where I was a human Mage, who romanced Alistair, put him on the throne in tandem with Anora, tearfully broke up with him because he wouldn't stay with me afterward, refused the Dark Ritual because WOMG BLOOD MAGIC ICK, and died a tragic heartbroken hero's death because I refused to let Alistair anywhere near the final battle and killed the Archdemon myself. Though the most tragic moment of all was probably having to say goodbye to my dog, and worrying about whether or not he'd be happy after I was gone.

The file I absolutely REFUSE to play in DA:I (not that I'm likely to be playing any files in DA:I ever again at this point) is the one where I was an elf Mage who romanced Alistair, and wanted to put him on the throne, but balked because she was too in love with him to lose him. Which is also why she had Morrigan do the Dark Ritual, so they could be happy Wardens together afterward. But that sets up the scenario where, in DA:I, you're forced to choose between sacrificing Hawke (who is basically ME, and who had romanced Isabela, who I feel would probably take the loss worst out of all possible romance candidates, except maybe Fenris), and sacrificing Alistair. Which I refuse to do, barring a future game eventually revealing that whoever you sacrifice survives anyway. That choice is way easier when you're basically just throwing Stroud to the monster (because fuck that mustachioed weirdo).

But I had a file for every origin, extra "evil" files for the Noble and the Mage, an extra Elf mage, and a few different Dalish.


---

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

I suppose a good compromise is to play it after you get her "loyalty mission"

Possibly, though knowing about her past could still alter how you interact with her in a potential romance or in the end-game, so I'd still probably say hold off on playing it until after you complete the main game.

All you really get from it is one piece of chest armor (IF you do the optional sidequest), but if you're not paying attention you won't even get that. And even if you get it, it's only worthwhile if you're regularly using Leliana or Zevran in your party, or if you're a Rogue.

The value of that particular DLC is the narrative, and that's mostly appreciated best if you wait until after the main game.

Realistically, most of its value is that it adds nuance to Leliana's later appearances in DA2's Sebastian DLC (if you have/use it) and some of her story in DA:I.


---

my main was dwarf templar, i romanced morrigan and survived the archdemon using the ritual
---

Krazy_Kirby posted...

my main was dwarf templar, i romanced morrigan and survived the archdemon using the ritual

That's possible? Thought only Humans and Elves can go that route.
---

^
thats for mage, dwarfs can be templars also
---

Interesting. Guess I'll give my Dwarf a second chance. Though torn if I should stay as two-handed berserker or tank route. I love having Alistair in my part but feels he outta stay the tank.
---

Well something weird happened. I installed the DA:O Ultimate Edition on Steam, logged into my Bioware Social/EA account in-game and saw all the DLCs included. Copy/Pasted my old saves and profile into the Dragon Age folder and now the game shows me having only a handful of DLCs. Those saves maaaybe from the non-Ultimate Edition version so I am wondering if that is the issue.
---

How is DA2? I remember people saying to not bother with it back in the day.
---

lihlih posted...

How is DA2? I remember people saying to not bother with it back in the day.

Overall I enjoyed it but would say it is one of the weaker Dragon Age games. Combat felt more fluid but I felt the game was simplified too much compared to DA: Origins. You had less control/customization of the other characters in terms of stats, gear, etc.

Storywise it felt detached from the previous Dragon Age games. You're essentially a refugee turned hero and the only real ties to the previous Dragon Age games is that you're based in the world of Thedas. Though there are some recurring characters from the previous game. Still, I think its worth playing but don't expect another DA: Origins/Awakening.

It's kinda like how I describe Deus Ex: Invisible Wars. It's a fun game, just not a good Deus Ex game. The same could maybe be said of Dragon Age II. It's a fun game, just not a good Dragon Age game. Though I'd imagine some folks found DA: Origins clunky and enjoyed the simplification of Dragon Age II.
---

Dragon Age Origins was like the one game I was ever pretty much an expert in. Now I barely remember anything. Makes me want to replay, but I'd probably want the PC version...
---

lihlih posted...

How is DA2? I remember people saying to not bother with it back in the day.

Most of the people who said that were pissed off that they changed from a more tactical RPG control scheme to something a bit more action hack-and-slash-y, or who got pissy about the fact that they reused map assets (in spite of the fact that it's generally hypocritical as fuck, considering ME did the exact same thing and no one complained at all).

The other problem people had with it is how it streamlined and simplified character builds and gear, but again, it's the exact same thing they did with ME2, and honestly, that's actually a plus if you're a more casual player or someone who values story over playing tactical RPGs (which, realistically, BioWare has never really made in the first place).

I still say to this day that of the three games, it's actually the one with the best story and characters. If anything, I compare the complaints about DA2 to be exactly the same as the people who complained about ME2 making pretty much the exact same sort of changes from ME1, except for some reason everybody shit on DA for doing it while ME seemed to get away with it with much less backlash (or wound up getting outright praised for it - you constantly hear people today saying they loved ME2 but ME1 is a borefest and new players should skip it entirely).



InfestedAdam posted...

Overall I enjoyed it but would say it is one of the weaker Dragon Age games.

That's kind of impossible, because there's only three DA games, and we live in a world where DA:I exists.

DA2 pretty much becomes the middle entry by default because DA:I does almost everything worse than both DA:O and DA2.



InfestedAdam posted...

Storywise it felt detached from the previous Dragon Age games.

Technically, there WEREN'T previous Dragon Age games. There was just ONE previous Dragon Age game, with multiple DLC's.

Some people think of Awakening as if it was its own standalone game, but it really isn't. It's just the sort of old-school expansion that developers don't make anymore these days, but which were more common in the past (even from BioWare, who did exactly the same thing when they released Throne of Bhaal for Baldur's Gate 2).

Which created a problem for BioWare (which I'm going to elaborate on more next post). Basically, you were supposed to play as a different main character in a completely different story every game, but then they milked DA:O by releasing one major story DLC and two minor ones where you continued to play as the same Warden character (even in cases where it made absolutely no sense because your Warden died in DA:O - there was no option to load your world state into Awakening and play as a new Warden but with your old Warden's story, instead, the game would just "resurrect" your dead Warden and act like you did the Dark Ritual and survived, because fuck continuity.).

So players got used to the idea of constantly uploading this same main character into new stories, and reacted REALLY negatively when BioWare finally told them they couldn't play their Warden anymore, or ever again.

In retrospect, maybe the sole reason why people never shit on ME2 as much but railed so hard against DA2 was because you were still Shepard in ME2. Maybe if ME2 had switched you off to a newly appointed human Spectre years after Shepard died or retired (or was relegated to being a guest-starring NPC), everyone would have flipped their shit.


---

InfestedAdam posted...

You're essentially a refugee turned hero and the only real ties to the previous Dragon Age games is that you're based in the world of Thedas.

That was supposed to be the entire point. Unlike ME, the franchise was never supposed to continue the same single story over time, but tell different stories set in the same world, spread out over time and location. The first game was about the Warden, Ferelden, and the Blight, so the idea was that the next game should deal with different concepts, and be set in a different part of the world (because they put a lot of thought into the setting as a whole, and wanted to show it off).

And whereas the first game had a relatively simple/generic fantasy "save the world" plot, the second game was supposed to be more complex as befits a game in an already established franchise. You don't WANT complex for your first game, because simple is what wins mainstream appeal. But once you've established your audience, THAT'S when you can afford to be a bit more flexible.

(Again, this is pretty much the same pattern ME went in - the first game was the general, relatively simplistic sci-fi "save the galaxy"-type plot, while the second game was much more experimental in concept and slightly smaller in overall scope)

But people whined because they all said they basically wanted more of the same, they wanted to play as their Warden again (and in spite of the fact that it's never, ever, EVER going to happen, people STILL keep wondering if "maybe you'll see your Warden again next game"), and generally wanted to be part of yet another ridiculously world-shaking apocalypse plot.

If anything, that's a large part of the problem with DA:I. People whined about Hawke's story not being important or epic enough (in spite of crazy over-the-top ridiculousness with the Qunari and the ending changing the status quo of the entire continent pretty damned significantly), so they gave us DA:I, which was basically all of the same sort of story beats and general plot structure of DA:O, except ramped up to 11. And it was kind of terrible, because it was a story they never really wanted to tell in a setting that was never really designed to accommodate constant multiple apocalypses (especially since they couldn't just go the Elder Scrolls route and skip ahead directly to the Sixth Blight).

And then, in order to MAINTAIN that sort of pace, where the fate of the whole world (if not all of reality itself) is constantly at stake, they had to come out with a DLC where nearly everything you accomplish in DA:I is undone because they have to reset the world state back to zero for the next game.

So they basically gave us everything we claimed we wanted, but in such a way that it was worse than anything we could possibly have imagined. BioWare basically confirmed for Monkey's Paw.


---

i'm all for playing different stories with different people set in the same world, but i'm not super okay with them changing the entire battle system each time

i love how DA:O's entire system worked, and then, like ME2, they changed it all up to be more action hack n slash oriented. i did not like that, and it's probably the reason why i only played DA2 for about an hour, and it is half the reason why it's taken me three or four years to even get to the end of DA:I

the thing with mass effect is, is that them making it more action oriented is completely find. it works in that setting because all they did was improve upon what they already did in 1. they changed how inventory works between 1 and 2, and that was okay.

but the transition from tactical-esque battles in DA:O to hack n slash standard between O and 2 was pretty much an entire change in the dynamics. it became "how do i want to go about this encounter? i could set alistar here while i flank and backstab" to "guess i'll just strafe for a little bit and spam attack"
---

Thank you for the detailed explanation ParanoidObsessive. I'd admit I didn't see it from that perspective and storywise it would be challenging to continue with the same Warden or whatnot so I can accept the shift in perspective for those reasoning.

But I still did not like simplification of the RPG aspect of the games and didn't liked it in Mass Effect 2 either. Granted both Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect may have gone overboard with some parts of their games (i.e. inventory management became a regular part of the gameplay). Regardless I still enjoyed being able to customize my characters in both DA:O and ME and was peeved when that aspect was dumbed down.

There are enough character guides online that if some player didnt want to spend the time thinking about what skills to focus on, they can just use a cookie cutter build while leaving other players the option to build their characters however they saw fit.

I'll agree with what helly stated. I think where DA: Origins excelled at (i.e. combat tactical elements), DA2 felt lacking in whereas the combat elements of ME was improved in ME2. To me ME was an RPG shooter so when the shooting aspects were improved upon, I thought it was great. For DA:O it felt like an RPG tactical game but DA2 introduced too much hack-n-slash elements in my opinion.

Overall I think it is because DA2 took too much RPG and tactical elements away so some fans felt it was too big of a change. Whereas in ME2, the RPG elements were reduced but the shooter elements were improved upon so the changes as a whole were more accepting.
---

bioware made KoToR. clearly a tactical rpg
---

BioWare's most complete game ever. I miss things like this, that felt like no sequel was needed... Now it's all sequels and remakes! And rarely the ones I want. Fudge it.
---