Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 125: Her Name Is Heather Heyer.

(+) Yeah! (+)

ExThaNemesis posted...
I don't disagree with this, but in the dozens of instances before Charlottesville, they were going around hurting everyday normal people and plotting a literal acid attack.

just because it was an acid attack doesn't mean it wasn't justified
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jesus christ dude
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Zyxyz0 posted...

tbh I have my doubts this antifa thing is legit

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-antifa

You're literally supporting a domestic terrorist group.
No. There is no "right" between them and Nazis, it is not two sides. It's both suck.
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Dude...

Trump's a shitlord to be sure, but that doesn't justify throwing acid in his face.
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Zyxyz0 posted...

just because it was an acid attack doesn't mean it wasn't justified

the deploraball was a gathering of right wing personalities and other guests that were most certainly not all Nazis.

I voted for Trump and until very recently have continued to support him. If I lived close enough to Berkley or the Deploraball I probably would've been there.

You're saying I deserve to be attacked with acid or subjected to other such Antifa's violence.

Jesus.
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Kinglicious posted...

Zyxyz0 posted...

tbh I have my doubts this antifa thing is legit

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-antifa

You're literally supporting a domestic terrorist group.
No. There is no "right" between them and Nazis, it is not two sides. It's both suck.

Would be super nice to see you give half a shit about this as your white supremacist Nazi memelord buddies that you defend at every possible junction
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FFDragon posted...

I highly disagree with any form of vigilante justice that turns streets into warzones.

StealThisSheen posted...

Yeah, I agree with this. They shouldn't get a pass at all just because they targeted the right people for once.

These are accurate if I go with the assumption that they're even remotely credible.

(Also, food for thought: One of, if not the biggest problem with violent protesting is that it squashes out peaceful protesting by making the peaceful protesters feel unsafe and making them not want to be there)
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Who is this guy.

KamikazePotato posted...

Kinglicious posted...

Zyxyz0 posted...

tbh I have my doubts this antifa thing is legit

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-antifa

You're literally supporting a domestic terrorist group.
No. There is no "right" between them and Nazis, it is not two sides. It's both suck.

Would be super nice to see you give half a shit about this as your white supremacist Nazi memelord buddies that you defend at every possible junction

This is also accurate.

Antifa being slightly more credible than George Soros doesn't make Wang (or the usual suspects that continually push them as a boogieman) any less bullshit
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KamikazePotato posted...

Would be super nice to see you give half a shit about this as your white supremacist Nazi memelord buddies that you defend at every possible junction

Would be super nice to see you point out where I've defended white supremacists you liar.
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Anyway on that point, I would advise any of you that live near major cities to avoid going to any sort of political engagement for a long while.

It looks like bedlam could start at any one of them at any moment and if the Charlottesville police's handling of that situation shows you anything its that your safety is in your own hands.
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That said I'm reminded at that guy who threw his shoes at Bush. Thought it was pretty funny at the time.


God I miss Bush.


...


Oh GOD, I miss Bush?!
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fringe extremist groups are bad. I think most people agree on that.

I guess my argument, if I had to make one, would be Romney's - one is out to eradicate people while the other is in response to something. I think that's mostly the argument that you (ex) are making so we're cool here.
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Reg posted...

Antifa being slightly more credible than George Soros doesn't make Wang (or the usual suspects that continually push them as a boogieman) any less bullshit

A state considering them to be a legitimate domestic terrorist group isn't "slightly more credible" than a conspiracy revolving around financial connections. that's just silly pride on your part where you don't want to admit you're wrong.

And if you think I'm bullshit by all means, where? On what?
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I think you can badmouth Bush for everything Iraq and after (god knows I did), but this past year has shown me how deeply I underestimated Bush's healing efforts in 2001. I thought it was just commonplace for a president to be that reassuring and whoops.
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That's the way you're seeing it right now because you think the other day is when Antifa got started.

Nah, they've been out for months and months already committing atrocities. Just because they happened to oppose something worse for once doesn't mean they're any sort of commendable.
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So you know when someone, I think Corrik, was making the argument that sometimes people here sound just like Ulti but on the other side? People say some stupid shit sometimes, but Zyxyz0 is the first time I can really think of when I agree with this sentiment.
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Kinglicious posted...

Reg posted...

Antifa being slightly more credible than George Soros doesn't make Wang (or the usual suspects that continually push them as a boogieman) any less bullshit

A state considering them to be a legitimate domestic terrorist group isn't "slightly more credible" than a conspiracy revolving around financial connections. that's just silly pride on your part where you don't want to admit you're wrong.

And if you think I'm bullshit by all means, where? On what?

The state considered the Black Panthers enough of a "legitimate domestic terrorist group" to covertly murder their leaders and the state has pretty much done fuck all about the KKK and neo-Nazis, so what the state does is really not a great defense here.
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Antifa has ALWAYS been a bad thing. When Antifa hurts people, I don't see most of the board's liberals coming out to defend them. My main issue is that most liberals, from my experience, while maybe willing to protest, are not actually THREATS in any sense of the word. Yet a lot of the more vocal right-wingers on the board equate Antifa with ANY liberal resistance to Trump. I've heard in the past two topics that the murder victim was "Antifa" despite not seeing any actual proof of that alleged fact. THAT'S my problem. Antifa seems to be piggybacking the animosity towards Trump as opposed to being a core part of liberal ideology, which just furthers the "left wingers are just as bad" narrative.
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Kinglicious posted...

A state considering them to be a legitimate domestic terrorist group isn't "slightly more credible" than a conspiracy revolving around financial connections. that's just silly pride on your part where you don't want to admit you're wrong.

Your ability to pick up on hyperbole and when I'm poking fun at myself is apparently actually slightly more credible than Soros!

Kinglicious posted...

And if you think I'm bullshit by all means, where? On what?

The way that you continually rush to the defense of alt-right/neo-nazi types under the guise of defending free speech, while absolutely not hesitating to condemn things like antifa?

You know, the same thing that literally everybody has been calling you out about for a long time now?
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I skipped the second half of the last topic and all the prior posts of this one, but i can't believe i saw a gay man defending neonazis and portraying them as victims in 2017. What a time to be alive.
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transience posted...

I think you can badmouth Bush for everything Iraq and after (god knows I did), but this past year has shown me how deeply I underestimated Bush's healing efforts in 2001. I thought it was just commonplace for a president to be that reassuring and whoops.

I mean, it is. This isn't a "commonplace" situation.

But yeah it's amazing and in a weird way kind of good that Trump has given us all like...minimum expectations for a president. He's made me reconsider the vitriol I have for David Cameron, who seriously fucked up, but was at least not fundamentally embarrassing as a representative of my country.
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Reg posted...

The way that you continually rush to the defense of alt-right/neo-nazi types under the guise of defending free speech, while absolutely not hesitating to condemn things like antifa?

You know, the same thing that literally everybody has been calling you out about for a long time now?

Wang thinks that you can call someone anything you want even if it doesn't apply. I don't and have never had a wife, but that didn't stop him from calling me a wife beater! Words don't mean anything to him.
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Why won't wang hear antifa out?
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Reg posted...

The way that you continually rush to the defense of alt-right/neo-nazi types under the guise of defending free speech, while absolutely not hesitating to condemn things like antifa?

You know, the same thing that literally everybody has been calling you out about for a long time now?

I got no problem defending antifa's speech either. We just don't talk about that much because anytime they come up it's about their violent actions, not speech anymore. But gimme some examples here, I'm real curious on what neo Nazis I've defended, for anything. Alt right is a bit iffy, can think of one or two who improperly get labeled as such but I don't expect you to know the differences there so I won't hold it to you. I mean I'll defend their right to speak, sure. And I'll defend antifa's as well. But I won't defend their actions and that's all we ever seem to talk about with them.
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Dark Young Link posted...

Why won't wang hear antifa out?

...you think I haven't?
I straight it up said in the last topic or one before that, I've heard them on streams. I've read their stuff, I've heard their arguments.

Is that supposed to surprise you?
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transience posted...

I think you can badmouth Bush for everything Iraq and after (god knows I did), but this past year has shown me how deeply I underestimated Bush's healing efforts in 2001. I thought it was just commonplace for a president to be that reassuring and whoops.

Easy to take for granted when you haven't seen an actual monster in power. The problem we're gonna face now is the marginalised right who still feel attacked and can't dismantle the cognitive dissonance between recognising a piece of shit and opposing it after they voted for it.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Anyway on that point, I would advise any of you that live near major cities to avoid going to any sort of political engagement for a long while.

It looks like bedlam could start at any one of them at any moment and if the Charlottesville police's handling of that situation shows you anything its that your safety is in your own hands.

Hey, if I gotta fight Nazis, I'll go fight Nazis. I don't have kids or anything so I don't think it's irresponsible for me to go out of my way to stand up to them.

I sure as fuck wouldn't join up with Antifa for some shit like a Milo tour stop though, that's ridiculous to bring violence to that protest. Fuck that.
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https://twitter.com/seanhannity/status/897623956353564676

Damn, I ALMOST called it. I said it would be Tucker
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I mean I see people calling out those people who voted for trump in protest of Hillary currently and saying how long does it take before we realise we were wrong, and I don't think hindsight applies to this, you were presented with two unpalatable options. Trump used terrible rhetoric to get in which was a clue, but I don't think anyone was expecting this. The Nazi fucks were probably just hoping for it.

But therein lies the problems with nationalism. It only barely makes sense in essence, so the application is always going to be terrible.
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/seanhannity/status/897623956353564676

Damn, I ALMOST called it. I said it would be Tucker

It's funny.

Hillary lost, but Trump is the one who can't get over her.
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oh hey i can post again.
finally.
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MenuWars posted...

The Nazi f***s were probably just hoping for it.

This is the one thing you could have easily seen if you knew what to look for.

The one thing that I see a lot of people doing is being somewhat surprised at how strong the white supremacy movement currently is. They just weren't paying attention to the subcurrents online
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Anyway on that point, I would advise any of you that live near major cities to avoid going to any sort of political engagement for a long while.

It looks like bedlam could start at any one of them at any moment and if the Charlottesville police's handling of that situation shows you anything its that your safety is in your own hands.

According to Gov. McAuliffe the nazis were better armed than the police and there were weapon caches hidden around town

(Though I do agree that staying away from these types of events is the best course of action)
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LordoftheMorons posted...

and there were weapon caches hidden around town

WHAT?

That's...something
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MenuWars posted...

Trump used terrible rhetoric to get in which was a clue, but I don't think anyone was expecting this.

Tons of people were expecting this.
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Zyxyz0 posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...
I don't disagree with this, but in the dozens of instances before Charlottesville, they were going around hurting everyday normal people and plotting a literal acid attack.

just because it was an acid attack doesn't mean it wasn't justified

Who are you?

And what the hell is wrong with you?
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Jakyl25 posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

Anyway on that point, I would advise any of you that live near major cities to avoid going to any sort of political engagement for a long while.

It looks like bedlam could start at any one of them at any moment and if the Charlottesville police's handling of that situation shows you anything its that your safety is in your own hands.

Hey, if I gotta fight Nazis, I'll go fight Nazis. I don't have kids or anything so I don't think it's irresponsible for me to go out of my way to stand up to them.

I sure as fuck wouldn't join up with Antifa for some shit like a Milo tour stop though, that's ridiculous to bring violence to that protest. Fuck that.

Yeah, if there were some Unite the Right type thing in Chicago I would definitely go be on the other side of it.

but Milo literally was coming to my campus and I didn't go protest that
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Kenri posted...

MenuWars posted...

Trump used terrible rhetoric to get in which was a clue, but I don't think anyone was expecting this.

Tons of people were expecting this.

I was expecting maybe stuff like this would happen and maybe he'd enable it by being quiet

I never would have predicted he would all but openly handwave them
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https://twitter.com/TJFixman/status/897623526894645248
loool
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

Anyway on that point, I would advise any of you that live near major cities to avoid going to any sort of political engagement for a long while.

It looks like bedlam could start at any one of them at any moment and if the Charlottesville police's handling of that situation shows you anything its that your safety is in your own hands.

Hey, if I gotta fight Nazis, I'll go fight Nazis. I don't have kids or anything so I don't think it's irresponsible for me to go out of my way to stand up to them.

I sure as fuck wouldn't join up with Antifa for some shit like a Milo tour stop though, that's ridiculous to bring violence to that protest. Fuck that.

Yeah, if there were some Unite the Right type thing in Chicago I would definitely go be on the other side of it.

but Milo literally was coming to my campus and I didn't go protest that

Same.

I would absolutely 100% show up to a UTR counter protest in Chicago.

And couldn't care less where Milo goes to talk.
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I'm more-so saying that the all together violence is probably about to get worse, no matter where the protests go. Just be careful is all. None of this is worth getting run over by a psycho in his car.
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Jakyl25 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

and there were weapon caches hidden around town

WHAT?

That's...something

Finally found an article (he mentioned it in a podcast interview):

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/14/donald-trump-charlottesville-response-washington
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MenuWars posted...

The Nazi fucks were probably just hoping for it.

alright, so i can type a bit more/better now (insert your horrified face here) so lemme get into that briefly.

there's a couple different groups we're realistically working with here. there's the group of alt right people who appear at multiple protests and seem to itch for fights but they weren't the ones who made it. they were some of the people going though, that was known.

for the nazis, they didn't really "hope for a fight," they were hoping for acceptance, tolerance, or a clear voice where people go "these people ain't so bad." it was a legitimate, genuine miscalculation they had, especially the ones who did marches and waved nazi flags. especially the ones next to confederate ones because that "southern pride" symbol sure gets to look a lot more racist and less prideful when you're with a fucking nazi flag next to it.

those people? they truly believed that this would be time for the silent majority to speak up and announce the rise of "the superior white race." i think they've been fueled by memes online and Trump's hesitation into thinking that there's a lot more of them that exist, that people weren't just making edgy jokes or using some symbolism for fun. they confused being-reduced-to-a-joke status to support of their beliefs, which has only made them an even bigger joke because now everyone wants them out.

the formation of the rally had that as a core idea behind it.
and it's the dumbest fucking idea i've heard.
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I thought about this yesterday (I live 15 minutes from Durham). I don't think I'd go just because I'm much more important to my kids than I am to a political cause. without kids, I would definitely consider a protest if something like Charlottesville came to me.

not for something like knocking over a dumb statue though.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

I'm more-so saying that the all together violence is probably about to get worse, no matter where the protests go. Just be careful is all. None of this is worth getting run over by a psycho in his car.

Yeah, I think you're right. It's hard to imagine it de-escalates from this event.
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Yeah I've heard people threatening civil war for years, but I've never really seen it as a possibility until recently. Still unlikely, but, it's definitely not an impossibility anymore.
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transience posted...

I think you can badmouth Bush for everything Iraq and after (god knows I did), but this past year has shown me how deeply I underestimated Bush's healing efforts in 2001. I thought it was just commonplace for a president to be that reassuring and whoops.

Yeah Bush had a real opportunity in 2001 to really do something majorly bad and like i guess some people might think the expansion of State surveillance is that level of bad but he never engaged in hatemongering and for that he is worthy of respect
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Wanglicious posted...

those people? they truly believed that this would be time for the silent majority to speak up and announce the rise of "the superior white race."

Man, I know that, "this is what group X actually believes" is an ancient meme by now, but it might not ever have been more relevant since it was created. Just imagine being one of these people and actually thinking that. Whoops!
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transience posted...

not for something like knocking over a dumb statue though.

aye, that's another thing.
the statue was just official pretense to come together for Saturday's event.

i've given their police a lot of shit for treating it like gang warfare (which is fair but still) but i've probably been a bit too hard on them. see, with the nazis/different alt-right factions having gotten together the night before they seemed to have prepped for Saturday. the police and them had a plan, some of them immediately went off script. you've got that stated in this official statement, where chief of police says they weren't told to stand down.

http://wtvr.com/2017/08/14/charlottesville-police-chief-denies-officers-were-told-not-to-intervene-in-rally/
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