Board 8 > Game of Thrones Season 7 - The enemy always wins. (SPOILERS)

(+) Yeah! (+)

RyoCaliente posted...

I'm super frustrated with the Game of Thrones social media presence. They're now doing #ThronesThrowback, which referred to Arya's "It's not you" from S1 and with Nymeria and now with Jon and Tormund and Mance reference. How dumb must you think your audience is (or how clever you are) to be like "HEY GUYS THIS THING FROM THE SCRIPT REFERENCES THIS OTHER THING WE MENTIONED BEFORE!".

Do you have any idea how many people didn't understand Bran's "Chaos is a ladder" quote?
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FFDragon posted...

I really hope they don't keep dropping that "bomb" like it's some sort of actual revelation though.

But with Bran and Sam hanging around I feel like we're going to get it at least twice more.

Likely. And the internet will explode with a protest of "who even didn't know at this point?" and a sizable counter-protest of "um, excuse me, not everyone watches every episode sixteen times in their mom's basement, speak for yourselves, I didn't know" and a counter counter-protest of "wtf?"
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Anagram posted...

Jeff Zero posted...

Fucktons of people still don't even realize Jon is a Targaryen.

FFDragon posted...

I really hope they don't keep dropping that "bomb" like it's some sort of actual revelation though.

But with Bran and Sam hanging around I feel like we're going to get it at least twice more.

I kind of hope Howland Reed shows up just because they did show him surviving the Tower of Joy scene in the show, but I know he won't.

The odds are there for the possibility. Meera name-checked him at the gate of The Wall in 7x01 unnecessarily and when she left Bran in 7x04 she said she had to go be with her family now. Given that I doubt we've seen the last of her, I give Howland showing up a solid 75% chance for Season 8.

You won't get more than a few lines of real value, though.
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Nanis23 posted...

RyoCaliente posted...

I'm super frustrated with the Game of Thrones social media presence. They're now doing #ThronesThrowback, which referred to Arya's "It's not you" from S1 and with Nymeria and now with Jon and Tormund and Mance reference. How dumb must you think your audience is (or how clever you are) to be like "HEY GUYS THIS THING FROM THE SCRIPT REFERENCES THIS OTHER THING WE MENTIONED BEFORE!".

Do you have any idea how many people didn't understand Bran's "Chaos is a ladder" quote?

pretty sure that was another #ThronesThrowback
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Jeff Zero posted...

The odds are there for the possibility. Meera name-checked him at the gate of The Wall in 7x01 unnecessarily and when she left Bran in 7x04 she said she had to go be with her family now. Given that I doubt we've seen the last of her, I give Howland showing up a solid 75% chance for Season 8.

You won't get more than a few lines of real value, though.

If he shows up, I think it'll only be to confirm Jon's heritage. Sam's book and Bran's word aren't going to be enough. Thanks for that, though, it does offer some hope.
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I definitely think making references to single lines from 50+ episodes ago is not effective storytelling in this show. There is a TON of dialogue and a TON of one-liners. None are so memorable that you can make a clear callback to them YEARS later.

Littlefinger giving the dagger to Bran, that is a solid reference that everyone can figure out even if they only watched S1 one time 7 years ago. But "chaos is a ladder", definitely not.

I guess in the age of the internet you can just look up what the reference was, but that's still weak storytelling. Especially since references like that and Nymeria are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to understand the scene. It's not like Breaking Bad references where they add an cool layer if you get them, but you don't miss anything important if you don't. Of course, it's absurd to compare this show's writing to BB...
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"Chaos is a ladder" is one of the more famous lines in the show, I think. But I know for one that my mum needed it explained. So yeah.
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one of the creators of the show literally said themes are for 8th grade book reports

they don't get the books or the characters (remember when they thought arya/needle stuff in bravos was about revenge?) at all, and the show is so popular that of course many viewers are huge morons that need everything spelled out for them constantly and want their hands held.

Everyone who likes the Games of Thrones show is an idiot
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That scene as a whole was probably memorable (though I forgot about it) but I don't see what about that line in particular is memorable. It's not emphasized, or scene-ending. "The climb is all there is" would be a better candidate for that reason.

But there's just no way to make any line in that scene "iconic" or anything. The show just wasn't built for those kinds of references, there's too much dialogue and too much variety and jumps across scenes. They should just stick to conceptual references like Arya saying "no one" taught her how to fight.
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the chaos is a ladder thing is irrelevant to whether or not you 'got it' so far

what you need to know was conveyed, by LF seeming freaked out when he said it

bran quoting it has yet to come into play and if it was REALLY necessary to get it they would have put the scene in the 'previously on' scenes

it seems like it was mostly just a thing for fans

XIII_rocks posted...

"Chaos is a ladder" is one of the more famous lines in the show, I think. But I know for one that my mum needed it explained. So yeah.

(Apart from obvious ones like "winter is coming" or "Lannisters send their regards/always pay their debts")
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It's really important WHY Littlefinger was freaked out. It's important to know LF learned that Bran could see private conversations in the past and that Bran basically knew all the shit he did and what he is up to. When I first saw that scene I wondered why LF got so freaked out, and there were several possible reasons (it was the first thing Bran said at all in the scene, he interrupted him with a seemingly nonsense phrase, the girl entered the room at the same time, etc) so if you didn't know that it was referencing a previous private conversation about LF's evilness, then you would miss that whole point.

You're right that LF learning that Bran knows everything hasn't come up again and LF is just going on like nothing happened, which is really weird and bad. But that's just 2 bits of bad writing canceling each other out.
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Where did the zombies get such huge chains anyway??
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Man who gives a shit if they're explaining references. Not everyone is a giant nerd like us, "Chaos is a ladder" was like 6 years ago.

A lot of people watch this show casually, it has a ton of characters and storylines, not everybody can keep up.

Just don't watch the videos is you're so offended.
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I'm usually the one explaining things to my partner, but even I still had to ask on here about "chaos is a ladder".
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Chaos is a ladder definitely flew over my head here as well.

XIII_rocks posted...

"Chaos is a ladder" is one of the more famous lines in the show, I think.

Never heard of it...!

I mean I don't even remember Bran saying it let alone Littlefinger
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I absolutely did not remember the "chaos is a ladder" quote either when Bran said it.
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GANON1025 posted...

Where did the zombies get such huge chains anyway??

I'm not even sure why they were needed. Remember in Hardhome when the NK just raised his arms and all the corpses rose as wights? He didn't NEED to touch the corpse!
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MariaTaylor posted...

game of thrones season 7 version of the red wedding

robb has just been shot with crossbow bolts. then, suddenly, blackfish and the hound both run in and start killing freys.

lmfao
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I did remember. I don't mind them making the reference, I made them mentioning it on social media. "Hardcore" fans will probably remember it. Casual viewers will see it on social media and either ignore it or go "Huh" and go on with their lives. No point in making a whole thing about it patting yourself on the back for dat reference.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Made me think Tormund was gonna die though. Good on them.

This was my problem though. Pre-S5 of GoT would have killed him off, because that's just ASOIAF things. Now, he lives, because there's only so few named characters left and GOTTA HAVE THAT TORMUND/BRIENNE COMIC RELIEF!
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I absolutely did not remember the "chaos is a ladder" quote either when Bran said it.

Huh fair enough. I do watch a bit on YouTube I guess
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yeah there are tons of awesome one-liners in the show's history. I didn't remember that one specifically but it was clear that Bran was able to know what LF says in private. I was glad that my Facebook feed gave me the headsup about the specifics. And I'm more aware of what's going on in the show than probably 80%+ of people that watch it. Block their social media if it's upsetting, I guess.
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If you don't discuss GoT at all, especially with superfans, and you are a week-to-week watcher instead of a binge-watcher, then the mythology of the show can be near-impenetrable. The show sits in this weird position where you practically need extra effort to understand it fully, but where it constantly makes moves for the sake of casuals that undermine the enjoyment for people who put in that extra effort.
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http://www.avclub.com/article/game-thrones-director-admits-shows-timeline-strain-259742

“If the show was struggling, I’d be worried about those concerns, but the show seems to be doing pretty well so it’s OK to have people with those concerns.”

Oh boy great. I guess we can look forward to more poor writing that they can get away with becausw the show is doing great ratings wise.
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Hahaha.

he's right but lmao
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They really don't give a shit huh
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OliviaTremor posted...

http://www.avclub.com/article/game-thrones-director-admits-shows-timeline-strain-259742

“If the show was struggling, I’d be worried about those concerns, but the show seems to be doing pretty well so it’s OK to have people with those concerns.”

Oh boy great. I guess we can look forward to more poor writing that they can get away with becausw the show is doing great ratings wise.

Can't wait for season 8 to be directed by Michael Bay
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velocycloraptor posted...

one of the creators of the show literally said themes are for 8th grade book reports

they don't get the books or the characters (remember when they thought arya/needle stuff in bravos was about revenge?) at all, and the show is so popular that of course many viewers are huge morons that need everything spelled out for them constantly and want their hands held.

wait what

is this true?

OliviaTremor posted...

“If the show was struggling, I’d be worried about those concerns, but the show seems to be doing pretty well so it’s OK to have people with those concerns.”

...Whelp, I guess that more-or-less answers that question.
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If they were gonna reference an old line, they should've put it in the "previously on Game of Thrones" segment.
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I'd never seen this before.

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dowolf posted...

velocycloraptor posted...

one of the creators of the show literally said themes are for 8th grade book reports

they don't get the books or the characters (remember when they thought arya/needle stuff in bravos was about revenge?) at all, and the show is so popular that of course many viewers are huge morons that need everything spelled out for them constantly and want their hands held.

wait what

is this true?

I google it and apparently it is true.

http://grantland.com/features/the-return-hbo-game-thrones/

When I asked Benioff and Weiss if it was possible to infer any overall intentionality to the upcoming 10 episodes, they sneered. “Themes are for eighth-grade book reports,” Benioff told me.

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Oh man, the next episode is literally called "The Dragon and the Wolf". It's hard not to be cynical when they seem hellbent on jumping all of the sharks. I still love the show, but in a completely different way now. This finale is going to be so ridiculous and I can't wait.
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I still enjoy the show, but it makes a lot less sense on the details than it did in the first three seasons.
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Pokewars posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

i think we need a lot more of the books for [spoiler] to be better than beric. so far [spoiler] in the books isn't that great even.

One of the few deviations show made better. Beric >>>>>>>> zombie Cat

I 10000000% agree with this
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We were in Malta shooting episode ten of the first season, and the show wasn't a big deal yet and we weren't being very secretive because nobody cared yet, and [Martin] just sort of mentioned in passing, "Oh well it's all about Dany and Jon Snow" and at the time I thought, "Really? I thought it was about Sean Bean and Robb Stark?"

From the director of the last episode. Not only does he not read the books apparently he doesn't bother reading scripts or being prepped for other episodes in the season, including Ned being killed two episodes prior.
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He doesn't read the books......... why arent the police on this guy????
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I get the sarcastic response but you would think if you are directing an adaptation you would want to be familiar with the source material and the fact that the guy you think is the main character actually died two episodes before the episode you are directing. Doesn't seem like an unreasonable expectation.
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Sure, it's not really unreasonable I was just having some fun.
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Yeah I don't know why but I keep getting my panties in a bunch in these Game of Thrones threads. Something is wrong with me.
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OliviaTremor posted...

We were in Malta shooting episode ten of the first season, and the show wasn't a big deal yet and we weren't being very secretive because nobody cared yet, and [Martin] just sort of mentioned in passing, "Oh well it's all about Dany and Jon Snow" and at the time I thought, "Really? I thought it was about Sean Bean and Robb Stark?"

From the director of the last episode. Not only does he not read the books apparently he doesn't bother reading scripts or being prepped for other episodes in the season, including Ned being killed two episodes prior.

What the fuck
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to be fair that is just a director, it would be WAY worse for the show runners or writers to say that

still not good though

foolm0r0n posted...

That scene as a whole was probably memorable (though I forgot about it) but I don't see what about that line in particular is memorable. It's not emphasized, or scene-ending.

I know it was several seasons ago but they couldn't have emphasized that line more if they gave him 'deal with it' glasses and a dubstep drop -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxlIraEV8n4

Seginustemple posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

That scene as a whole was probably memorable (though I forgot about it) but I don't see what about that line in particular is memorable. It's not emphasized, or scene-ending.

I know it was several seasons ago but they couldn't have emphasized that line more if they gave him 'deal with it' glasses and a dubstep drop -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxlIraEV8n4

I hardly remember Varys let alone that scene.
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Upon rewatching the episode, for all the complaints people have with it, one I'm not seeing is Jon so easily dispatching the White Walker. I'm not nearly as critical of this episode as most, but that really kind of bothered me. The Army of the Dead felt unstoppable prior to this episode and now they don't. Give The Hound or Brienne or any of the fighters superior to Jon a Valyrian steel sword and the Walkers are no problem, and the wights don't feel nearly as dangerous as they did at Hardhome. Viserion feels more like a way for them to take The Wall down than anything else, in theory Drogon can pretty easily annhilate him. Look up Quicksilver from the books, who was easily dispatched by Balerion. It should have been Viserion AND Rhaegal OR Drogon himself. I guess they want to keep Rhaegal around forJon to ride because he's named after his Dad?
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Jon killed a guy on that power level before, at Hardhome. He has practice.

Seginustemple posted...

but they couldn't have emphasized that line more

Obviously they could've
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Yeah but that White Walker kicked his ass for a while and he had help from the Thenn dude. It was also kind of implied that the Walker was toying with him and caught offguard by Jon having a sword capable of killing him. This Walker was a total jobber.
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The further south the Army of the Dead marches, the bigger it will grow. Their ultimate threat level is that of any other zombie movie - numbers.

But yeah, the WW's themselves being 1. so limited in number and 2. so easily killable seems pretty rough. Fortunately the Night King seems way stronger than rando WW's.

That said - after this last episode, I don't trust the feeling of dread to grow organically. It'll be like 7x06, mainly huge solo moves (WIGHT DRAGON!!!!) and losing on pretty much every other front (lol redshirts).
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