Poll of the Day > Do you consider the disability, ssi system in the u.s. to be fair?

(+) Yeah! (+)

.....maybe on disability you would get closer to minimum wage maybe 3/4 of full time min wage. You can work when you're on ssi or disability but if you're on ssi you only get to keep half of what you make at an outside job. I think disabilty has a cap on how much you can make at an outside job too.
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I guess not. But who cares if it's fair? Does it work, that's the real question.
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do you think it works? some people care if it's fair
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I think if someone is disabled and unable to work they should be able to obtain enough assistance to having housing and food and live comfortably. I also think they should have enough money to be able to have hobbies and live a normal life.
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Jen0125 posted...

I think if someone is disabled and unable to work they should be able to obtain enough assistance to having housing and food and live comfortably. I also think they should have enough money to be able to have hobbies and live a normal life.

so everyone agrees that it should be at least as much as working full time at minimum wage?
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Minimum wage isn't a livable wage.
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UT1999 posted...

do you think it works?

I'm not well-read on it but it seems to do more good than bad.

UT1999 posted...

some people care if it's fair

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."
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yeah but i think giving disabled people that much is kinda fair. It's a little unfair to give them more than a person working full time on minimum wage. Those people are working full time
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UT1999 posted...

so everyone agrees that it should be at least as much as working full time at minimum wage?

I'd say so. My mom is on disability from a bad back injury 20 years ago and can't sit, stand or walk continuously for long periods of time. She only gets 700 a month though, that doesn't go far in massachusetts. If it wasn't for living with my grandma, she'd be screwed.
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no system is perfect. nor well it ever be, but I will say it does seem shitty that its very hard to live off disability alone, and they have some fucked up regulations surrounding it. have a friend on disability and he couldn't live a quality life (like buying more than just bare necessities) without having a room mate. and he tells me hes only allowed to have so much money saved up in the bank or they take his disability away, so he has to resort to saving his money in cash.
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UT1999 posted...

yeah but i think giving disabled people that much is kinda fair. It's a little unfair to give them more than a person working full time on minimum wage. Those people are working full time

They're disabled. They can't work. It's not unfair to provide them a livable wage. They're alive human beings.
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Jen0125 posted...

UT1999 posted...

yeah but i think giving disabled people that much is kinda fair. It's a little unfair to give them more than a person working full time on minimum wage. Those people are working full time

They're disabled. They can't work. It's not unfair to provide them a livable wage. They're alive human beings.

my friend on disability only makes like 700 bucks a month. though it may be more now since they raised minimum wage where he lives to 15 bucks a hour.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

Jen0125 posted...

UT1999 posted...

yeah but i think giving disabled people that much is kinda fair. It's a little unfair to give them more than a person working full time on minimum wage. Those people are working full time

They're disabled. They can't work. It's not unfair to provide them a livable wage. They're alive human beings.

my friend on disability only makes like 700 bucks a month. though it may be more now since they raised minimum wage where he lives to 15 bucks a hour.

And?
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mooreandrew58 posted...

Jen0125 posted...

UT1999 posted...

yeah but i think giving disabled people that much is kinda fair. It's a little unfair to give them more than a person working full time on minimum wage. Those people are working full time

They're disabled. They can't work. It's not unfair to provide them a livable wage. They're alive human beings.

my friend on disability only makes like 700 bucks a month. though it may be more now since they raised minimum wage where he lives to 15 bucks a hour.

700 bucks a month is more then my mother ever made BEFORE she was on disability. If anything he is living like a king.
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really? 700 bucks a month isn't that much. What kind of work was your mom doing where she wasn't making that much? Well it was probably many years ago though. Full time minimum wage now is much more than that.
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UT1999 posted...

really? 700 bucks a month isn't that much. What kind of work was your mom doing where she wasn't making that much? Well it was probably many years ago though. Full time minimum wage now is much more than that.

Factory work, and yea this was back in the 70's and 80's.

Still, if you are on SSI, you can also apply for HUD, which makes your rent dirt cheap. My mom only pays like $45 a month for her apartment, plus she gets food stamps, plus all of her utilities are paid for.

So yea, $700 a month IS a lot when it essentially doesn't include food, shelter, and utilities.
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Dikitain posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

Jen0125 posted...

UT1999 posted...

yeah but i think giving disabled people that much is kinda fair. It's a little unfair to give them more than a person working full time on minimum wage. Those people are working full time

They're disabled. They can't work. It's not unfair to provide them a livable wage. They're alive human beings.

my friend on disability only makes like 700 bucks a month. though it may be more now since they raised minimum wage where he lives to 15 bucks a hour.

700 bucks a month is more then my mother ever made BEFORE she was on disability. If anything he is living like a king.

yeah no... in no way was he living like a king. he literally can't afford to live without a working roommate, unless he where to go live in the projects or something like that. and even then his quality of life would be bare bones.
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People should be bitching about the Federal Reserve way before complaining about stuff like this.
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RedPixel posted...

People should be bitching about the Federal Reserve way before complaining about stuff like this.

why?
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RedPixel posted...

People should be bitching about the Federal Reserve way before complaining about stuff like this.

so we can only bitch about one thing at any given time?
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Jen0125 posted...

They're disabled. They can't work. It's not unfair to provide them a livable wage. They're alive human beings.

And why does that make it acceptable for them to get more money than people who work, at the expense of those working people?
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Rasmoh posted...

Jen0125 posted...

They're disabled. They can't work. It's not unfair to provide them a livable wage. They're alive human beings.

And why does that make it acceptable for them to get more money than people who work, at the expense of those working people?

yeah i kinda agree with you ras, but most times it doesn't even approach minumum wage full time, that's fucked up
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Jen0125 posted...

I think if someone is disabled and unable to work they should be able to obtain enough assistance to having housing and food and live comfortably. I also think they should have enough money to be able to have hobbies and live a normal life.

Sums up my thoughts on the system. Not only that but of course it's more expensive for a person with a disability to live than one that doesn't have a disability in most cases. If said person didn't have a disability I'm sure they would be working, earning a full wage and whatnot but unfortunately this isn't a option for them. On that note I'd say most people with a disability "work" more than those with a job as it's much more difficult for them to actually have a "normal" life.
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Rasmoh posted...

Jen0125 posted...

They're disabled. They can't work. It's not unfair to provide them a livable wage. They're alive human beings.

And why does that make it acceptable for them to get more money than people who work, at the expense of those working people?

Because they're alive and need to live? They don't have the option of even attempting to get jobs over minimum wage because they're disabled and minimum wage isn't a livable wage. You can't afford an apartment in most places on minimum wage let alone an apartment and food.

Nobody has any sense of altruism at all. So disgusting. Sorry you'd rather have disabled people dying in the streets because you want them to rely on church and charities. People already don't want their taxes going to pay for disabled people but you expect they're gonna be donating to charities too? That's rich.
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Jen0125 posted...

Nobody has any sense of altruism at all. So disgusting.

Today I learned that stealing from people who work is altruistic.

Jen0125 posted...

Sorry you'd rather have disabled people dying in the streets because you want them to rely on church and charities.

Sorry that I don't want to sandbag society and it's productive members because your feelings get all up in a tizzy. Despite your cries of nobody being altruistic, our country is actually blindly altruistic to the point of self-ruin. As a society we have essentially no point at which we will stop giving handouts to people and it only keeps on getting worse.

Jen0125 posted...

People already don't want their taxes going to pay for disabled people but you expect they're gonna be donating to charities too?

Huge swathes of people already refuse to donate to charity because their take-home pay is continually chipped away by taxes that essentially go to charity anyway. We're barreling down a crash-course to economic destruction because we're the societal equivalent of the crazy cat lady who wants to save every single cat that she comes across because letting nature take it's course just hurts her feelings too much. We literally funnel billions of dollars into keeping people who contribute literally nothing to society alive. At what point do we sit down and realize that it's unsustainable?

None of this is even addressing the fact that SSI/Disability are some of the most easily scammed systems there are.
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RC has already posted statistics on here time and time again disputing the strawman of the welfare queen scammer trope.

If you don't want to help maintain society that's your opinion. But the government isn't going to allow it and for that I am grateful.
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i agree with you that the welfare queen driving a bmw is a way overblown myth. I think that shit is incredibly rare. But of course there are some scams and shit here and there.
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Jen0125 posted...

If you don't want to help maintain society that's your opinion.

How is financing people who do nothing but consume "maintaining" society?

Jen0125 posted...

But the government isn't going to allow it and for that I am grateful.

Soon they won't have a choice because collapse will be the other option.


Also, welfare scammers are not only real, but a huge problem. Especially because we have an increasingly large umbrella of what people can claim to receive disability. I've worked with the Department of Human Services in my state, it's unreal the sort of shit people claim and do to get handouts. And there is almost no effort put into ceasing welfare fraud and abuse.
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Rasmoh posted...

Jen0125 posted...

If you don't want to help maintain society that's your opinion.

How is financing people who do nothing but consume "maintaining" society?

Jen0125 posted...

But the government isn't going to allow it and for that I am grateful.

Soon they won't have a choice because collapse will be the other option.


Also, welfare scammers are not only real, but a huge problem. Especially because we have an increasingly large umbrella of what people can claim to receive disability. I've worked with the Department of Human Services in my state, it's unreal the sort of shit people claim and do to get handouts. And there is almost no effort put into ceasing welfare fraud and abuse.

the amount of money you get on welfare is overblown by the people against it. It is almost never as much as a full time job on minimum wage. Do you at least agree with this?
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I've said all I'm going to say. I'm not interested in arguing with people who don't even want to have their tax dollars go to help their fellow citizens.
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UT1999 posted...

the amount of money you get on welfare is overblown by the people against it. It is almost never as much as a full time job on minimum wage. Do you at least agree with this?

Only if you are literally talking about spending cash. If you factor in food stamps, medicaid, housing, and utility assistance as well, it's not even close. The popular thing to do in my area is work under the table and just claim all of these handouts. And again, there is almost no effort dedicated to stopping people who do this shit. I used to work with a girl who deliberately won't marry the father of her 3 children who makes 80k/yr because they want the handouts. They've literally been turned in for it and nothing has been done because on paper, they're not doing anything wrong.

Jen0125 posted...

I've said all I'm going to say. I'm not interested in arguing with people who don't even want to have their tax dollars go to help their fellow citizens.

I understand that you have no argument beyond "People not being given money stolen from others makes me sad!"

I also like how you put words in my mouth. What if I just want my tax dollars going towards the productive members of society? Again, at what point do we need to sit down and realize that we're paying billions of dollars on an investment with absolutely no return? There is literally no benefit in handing money to people who just consume without contributing.
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hey rasmoh are you also against abortion? Can you answer that for me? I can't remember what you said your stance was in your previous posts on abortion
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UT1999 posted...

hey rasmoh are you also against abortion? Can you answer that for me? I can't remember what you said your stance was in your previous posts on abortion

Not at all. In fact, I think not allowing abortion is stupid and only shunts those who would get them into unsafe methods of doing so.
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Rasmoh posted...

UT1999 posted...

hey rasmoh are you also against abortion? Can you answer that for me? I can't remember what you said your stance was in your previous posts on abortion

Not at all. In fact, I think not allowing abortion is stupid and only shunts those who would get them into unsafe methods of doing so.

i agree, i think if someone had your views on the disability welfare system and was also adamantly against abortion then that would be completely insane in my opinion. I mean like mental institution insane. At least that's the way i feel.
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I believe there is value in it, but I've never and will never see it as something I will need.

I also think there is value in a universal income, and a basic standard living for all, and we should totally get on that.
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Rasmoh posted...

I also like how you put words in my mouth. What if I just want my tax dollars going towards the productive members of society? Again, at what point do we need to sit down and realize that we're paying billions of dollars on an investment with absolutely no return? There is literally no benefit in handing money to people who just consume without contributing.

There's no benefit to your entire bitchy post against disabled people, but yet you still wrote it up.

wah_wah_wah posted...

There's no benefit to your entire bitchy post against disabled people, but yet you still wrote it up.

Compelling argument. But there are many benefits to promoting responsible, sustainable lifestyle choices for both the individual and society.

Judgmenl posted...

I also think there is value in a universal income, and a basic standard living for all, and we should totally get on that.

Unsustainable. Such a thing is impossible when society has no desire to "trim the fat".
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Rasmoh posted...

wah_wah_wah posted...

There's no benefit to your entire bitchy post against disabled people, but yet you still wrote it up.

Compelling argument. But there are many benefits to promoting responsible, sustainable lifestyle choices for both the individual and society.

Judgmenl posted...

I also think there is value in a universal income, and a basic standard living for all, and we should totally get on that.

Unsustainable. Such a thing is impossible when society has no desire to "trim the fat".

For someone who alludes to being the strong competent worker, you have a lot of embarrassingly limited beliefs about the world.

Those who are on disability are people who can't work. They are not people who necessarily have never worked, or will necessarily never work again. You, the hard-at-work shit poster that you are, might find yourself to be disabled at any time. These programs protect you as much as they protect anyone else. And that's the really annoying part about people like you. You bitch about these systems that help people and decry how they are such a pain in your ass, when you're healthy, but the second someone like you gets sick or can't cut it at the job anymore, you go right to them begging for relief.

wah_wah_wah posted...

Those who are on disability are people who can't work.

This belief is so naive that it's utterly laughable. There is a huge, HUGE portion of people on disability who make up conditions and ailments to collect it. There is very little vetting done to ensure that these people are, in fact, disabled. Non-specific back or knee pain, fibromyalgia, agoraphobia, social anxiety disorder, autism, etc. While there are people who do genuinely suffer from things like this, they are also very easy conditions to fake and there's essentially nothing done to stop it.

wah_wah_wah posted...

You, the hard-at-work shit poster that you are, might find yourself to be disabled at any time.

Which is why I choose to invest in insurance to protect myself if that happens. But that's not really relevant to the topic at hand. If I were disabled and completely incapable of contributing to society in any way, why should I expect to be taken care of by the people that do contribute? If they choose to do so, that's wonderful, but it's wrong to expect them to and more wrong to force them to. People who already work and struggle to make ends meet are the ones paying for this shit while people like you and Jen cry about how it hurts your feelings that someone might not get paid to sit at home and watch TV all day.
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ras do you believe that most of the people who are on disability do not need it?
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UT1999 posted...

ras do you believe that most of the people who are on disability do not need it?

It's an indisputable fact that there is a large portion of people on SSI/Disability and other forms of welfare who do not need it.
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do you think that number is over 50%?
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UT1999 posted...

do you think that number is over 50%?

Does it matter? It's impossible to quantify and there's almost no effort put into preventing people from abusing the system.
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Rasmoh posted...

UT1999 posted...

do you think that number is over 50%?

Does it matter? It's impossible to quantify and there's almost no effort put into preventing people from abusing the system.

you believe there's almost no effort put into people from abusing it?
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"indisputable fact impossible to quantify" okay
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UT1999 posted...

Rasmoh posted...

UT1999 posted...

do you think that number is over 50%?

Does it matter? It's impossible to quantify and there's almost no effort put into preventing people from abusing the system.

you believe there's almost no effort put into people from abusing it?

It is one of the most vigorously vetted programs to get onto. Most have to go before a judge and have extensive medical paperwork proving their disability. It isn't as effortless as logging onto GameFAQs and making some vapid brainfart of a post.

wah_wah_wah posted...

UT1999 posted...

Rasmoh posted...

UT1999 posted...

do you think that number is over 50%?

Does it matter? It's impossible to quantify and there's almost no effort put into preventing people from abusing the system.

you believe there's almost no effort put into people from abusing it?

It is one of the most vigorously vetted programs to get onto. Most have to go before a judge and have extensive medical paperwork proving their disability. It isn't as effortless as logging onto GameFAQs and making some vapid brainfart of a post.

yeah according to doctors my mom qualifies for disability but she got turned down. and hell my step father has been fighting a few year long court battle over workers comp, and guess what hes having to work during this time because gotta put food on the table somehow despite it being obvious his shoulder is fucked.
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Given how easy it is to get on the dole, it's more than fair.
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wah_wah_wah posted...

UT1999 posted...

Rasmoh posted...

UT1999 posted...

do you think that number is over 50%?

Does it matter? It's impossible to quantify and there's almost no effort put into preventing people from abusing the system.

you believe there's almost no effort put into people from abusing it?

It is one of the most vigorously vetted programs to get onto. Most have to go before a judge and have extensive medical paperwork proving their disability. It isn't as effortless as logging onto GameFAQs and making some vapid brainfart of a post.

yeah i agree wah
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UT1999 posted...

you believe there's almost no effort put into people from abusing it?

You like to use misleading phrasing like "believe", don't you?

There is very little effort put into preventing people from abusing our welfare systems. I've worked with people who specifically refuse to work more than a certain amount of hours because they don't want to cross that income threshold. I know multiple people right now who only work under the table jobs and collect welfare to pay for all their living expenses. I've been meetings with the Department of Human Services in my area and the top brass there have literally said they don't have time to chase down everyone who defrauds the system.

On top of that, our welfare systems allow moronic levels of luxury. You can go buy yourself a lobster and steak dinner if you are on food stamps. You can shoot heroin into your dick using used needles until you get HIV and medicaid is happy to pay for the tens of thousands of dollars it costs per year to treat you. You can have ten kids from ten different fathers while doing meth the whole time and not once will you be told that you need to stop doing that or you won't receive aid. I actually worked with a woman who wanted to have another kid so that she could collect more welfare. She posted an ad on craigslist inviting any man to come over and knock her up. Despite doing this, receiving welfare for herself and her new kid was no issue whatsoever. This same woman got fired from a 45k/yr job for intentionally defrauding the medicaid system.

There is no point at which we draw the line and that is a huge problem.
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