Poll of the Day > California makes first year of community college free.

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://kron4.com/2017/10/13/california-makes-first-year-of-community-college-free/''

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) The first year of community college will be free for thousands of California students under a bill signed by Gov. Jerry Brown.

The signing announced Friday creates the California College Promise program.

It waives course fees for a students first year of classes. Students must apply for the fee waiver and take at least 12 credits per semester.

Each unit now costs $46.

The community college system estimates 19,000 students would be eligible for the fee waiver, which will cost the state about $31 million annually. Roughly 1.6 million of the systems 2.3 million students already receive other financial aid.

Awesome
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I got refunded $2,000 per semester my first 2 years in community college cause i was smart enough for scholarships and poor enough for financial aid

Then i transferred to a big university and only had to pay like $4,000 per semester (including housing and food)

Now i have my degree and im rich and dont have student loans to pay

Also im rich
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Especially for illegal aliens.
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I mean we already had FAFSA for this but whatever

That's pretty neat
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Yeah the first hit is usually free.

dedbus posted...

Yeah the first hit is usually free.

Hah
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In order to be fair they should probably figure out the value of that and pay that much of the student debt for people who went to school before this bill. People coming into the system now come out with a financial advantage over them.

should be first year of a university. community college may not be cheap but its breaking the bank if you save up for it expensive either. or both, not all people want to start with community but want to jump straight to Uni, and some people only want to go to community
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EightySeven posted...

In order to be fair they should probably figure out the value of that and pay that much of the student debt for people who went to school before this bill. People coming into the system now come out with a financial advantage over them.

I don't think it has to be all or nothing. They're helping future students with the resources they have. It's a step in the right direction.
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GhostGiblet posted...

I don't think it has to be all or nothing. They're helping future students with the resources they have. It's a step in the right direction.

Maybe, but if you miss the boat it probably leaves a bad taste in your mouth as you're watching your tax dollars pay for other people's education while also paying down your own unsubsidized education debt.

EightySeven posted...

GhostGiblet posted...

I don't think it has to be all or nothing. They're helping future students with the resources they have. It's a step in the right direction.

Maybe, but if you miss the boat it probably leaves a bad taste in your mouth as you're watching your tax dollars pay for other people's education while also paying down your own unsubsidized education debt.

I guess, but let's say all college was going to become free. Would it be wrong for the government to make that happen, knowing they couldn't afford to also wipe out all past student loan debt? I don't think so, and I think this is pretty much the same

I was in a similar situation where a public scholarship that helped me with my tuition was increased the year after I got it. The kids the year after me got twice as much (for a four year scholarship). I wished I had been eligible for the larger amount, but I didn't really resent it
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They're attacking freedom of ignorance now!

GhostGiblet posted...

I guess, but let's say all college was going to become free. Would it be wrong for the government to make that happen, knowing they couldn't afford to also wipe out all past student loan debt? I don't think so, and I think this is pretty much the same

It would probably be beneficial for society, so I think I'd be in favor of it, but I'd also be very empathetic to people already saddled with student debt who are upset. Surely there's a way to fix our broken education finance system while at the same time help people who have already been fucked by it.

I mean imagine you just graduated with a degree and are now $40k in debt. Suddenly the US government passes a bill making all postsecondary education free, but you're still on the hook for that $40k. Wouldn't you be just a little peeved?

EightySeven posted...

GhostGiblet posted...

I guess, but let's say all college was going to become free. Would it be wrong for the government to make that happen, knowing they couldn't afford to also wipe out all past student loan debt? I don't think so, and I think this is pretty much the same

It would probably be beneficial for society, so I think I'd be in favor of it, but I'd also be very empathetic to people already saddled with student debt who are upset. Surely there's a way to fix our broken education finance system while at the same time help people who have already been fucked by it.

I mean imagine you just graduated with a degree and are now $40k in debt. Suddenly the US government passes a bill making all postsecondary education free, but you're still on the hook for that $40k. Wouldn't you be just a little peeved?

I'm not saying I don't understand why people would be upset I guess, just saying I don't think that they're morally obliged to make it retroactive
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GhostGiblet posted...

just saying I don't think that they're morally obliged to make it retroactive

They're not morally obligated to do anything, including paying for postsecondary education in any capacity. I'm talking about fairness and empathy not moral obligation.

Metal_Mario99 posted...

Especially for illegal aliens.

Grrrr!

EightySeven posted...

It would probably be beneficial for society, so I think I'd be in favor of it, but I'd also be very empathetic to people already saddled with student debt who are upset. Surely there's a way to fix our broken education finance system while at the same time help people who have already been fucked by it.

Given that the system is broken largely *because* of government overinvolvement which has allowed colleges to balloon their budgets unchecked (largely boosting things like administrator salaries), it seems a silly solution. At that point you might want to just issue a blank check to colleges and watch our country crumble under the weight.
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Zeus posted...

Given that the system is broken largely *because* of government overinvolvement which has allowed colleges to balloon their budgets unchecked (largely boosting things like administrator salaries), it seems a silly solution. At that point you might want to just issue a blank check to colleges and watch our country crumble under the weight.

I'm having trouble following. Are you talking about providing tax-payer funded free education or student debt for those who have already paid relief after that?

Useless. We need a nationwide effort to encourage people to pursue paths that aren't college. Far too many people go to college despite having no business going there.

Also, colleges are quickly becoming redundant because most things that you learn in college can be learned online for free. We need to move away from the 4 year degree model and into a certified specialization model instead.
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I'm curious how this pans out over time. I'm skeptical but hope it works well.
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If you're an independent student and under $40k you can get a bachelor degree for free in California, been that way for at least twenty years now.Rasmoh posted...

Useless. We need a nationwide effort to encourage people to pursue paths that aren't college. Far too many people go to college despite having no business going there.

Also, colleges are quickly becoming redundant because most things that you learn in college can be learned online for free. We need to move away from the 4 year degree model and into a certified specialization model instead.

Every cert you can think of can be attained via community colleges. I'm not sure whether you didn't know that or if I'm not understanding your point.
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MacrossSpecial posted...

Every cert you can think of can be attained via community colleges. I'm not sure whether you didn't know that or if I'm not understanding your point.

Community colleges and colleges in general rely on bloating student schedules with unnecessary classes in order to collect more money from those wishing to obtain degrees and certificates. The whole process needs to be streamlined and digitized

Most importantly though, the stigma that permeates high schools is "go to college and get a degree or you'll be a fucking loser!" and that thought process needs to go. Colleges are meant to be for the best and brightest, not for every single person. It's disastrously common for a B or C average student to take out exorbitant loans to go to college and fail because they've spent the past decade being told that not going to college makes them worthless. This is exacerbated by the government handing out loans to just about everyone while colleges just laugh it up and pocket the money.
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EightySeven posted...

Zeus posted...

Given that the system is broken largely *because* of government overinvolvement which has allowed colleges to balloon their budgets unchecked (largely boosting things like administrator salaries), it seems a silly solution. At that point you might want to just issue a blank check to colleges and watch our country crumble under the weight.

I'm having trouble following. Are you talking about providing tax-payer funded free education or student debt for those who have already paid relief after that?

not sure on the government over-involvement part but the rest seems to boil down to people at colleges get paid too much which jacks up the prices for the students. but conversely while i'm not sure if free college all around would work in this country (just cause it works in one doesn't mean it will in another) but if they did do that, I trust the government would force their pays down to more reasonable prices so not that much is coming out of their/tax payers pocket.

i'd opt quickly for a merit based system them though, give them a free ride first year but if they bomb on grades sorry, there goes your funding.

I do wish this country would go back to realizing not every career really needs a college degree though. I think some fast food places had toyed with the idea of making it a requirement for managers. probably realizing they'd never hire anyone for as cheap as they want caused them to back out of that idea.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

i'd opt quickly for a merit based system them though, give them a free ride first year but if they bomb on grades sorry, there goes your funding.

This is actually a fantastic idea, but would need to apply to specific programs that have good career outcomes. Healthcare, technology, engineering, etc. Many classes are so easy that minimal effort can net you an A.
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Rasmoh posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

i'd opt quickly for a merit based system them though, give them a free ride first year but if they bomb on grades sorry, there goes your funding.

This is actually a fantastic idea, but would need to apply to specific programs that have good career outcomes. Healthcare, technology, engineering, etc. Many classes are so easy that minimal effort can net you an A.

depends on the teacher too, I was breezing through my college classes with a 4.0 putting in zero effort. then they hired a new teacher... I worked my ass off to end up with a 3.7 after just having him for 3 classes.
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Rasmoh posted...

MacrossSpecial posted...

Every cert you can think of can be attained via community colleges. I'm not sure whether you didn't know that or if I'm not understanding your point.

Community colleges and colleges in general rely on bloating student schedules with unnecessary classes in order to collect more money from those wishing to obtain degrees and certificates. The whole process needs to be streamlined and digitized

Sounds like your problem is more with the education industry than community colleges.

I personally saw the industry value in every class I took to get my cs undergrad.

Most importantly though, the stigma that permeates high schools is "go to college and get a degree or you'll be a fucking loser!" and that thought process needs to go. Colleges are meant to be for the best and brightest, not for every single person. It's disastrously common for a B or C average student to take out exorbitant loans to go to college and fail because they've spent the past decade being told that not going to college makes them worthless. This is exacerbated by the government handing out loans to just about everyone while colleges just laugh it up and pocket the money.

I live in an aerospace town. People go to the local jc to get their a&p license or to transfer to a csu to get engineering degree.

It sounds like there is an issue with properly educating people on education where you live, that and/or you live in a state that doesn't invest in public education. I'm totally fine with paying 1.5% higher sales tax and not being saddled with student loans for the rest of my life.
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College is overrated. It's mostly writing essays. If you want a job that requires college, like a teacher or doctor, go ahead. If not, skip it.

MacrossSpecial posted...

Sounds like your problem is more with the education industry than community colleges.

This is a redundant statement. Community colleges capitalize on the bloated nature of the higher education industry. Offering a free year of community college is a bandaid on the toe of a leg that's infected with gangrene.

It sounds like there is an issue with properly educating people on education where you live

You're naive if you think it's just where I live. It's a problem in high schools throughout America. There is a perpetual emphasis on going to college at any cost, because getting a degree will make you successful and rich rich rich! Who cares if you graduated high school with a 2.3 GPA? Who cares if your degree has almost no practical applications? Surely you will find someone to pay you 6 figures for your degree in Gender Studies!

Why do you think that the student loan crisis is a thing? People have been spoonfed for decades now with the thought that getting a degree, any degree, at any cost, will result in wealth and success.
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EightySeven posted...

In order to be fair they should probably figure out the value of that and pay that much of the student debt for people who went to school before this bill. People coming into the system now come out with a financial advantage over them.

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EightySeven posted...

Zeus posted...

Given that the system is broken largely *because* of government overinvolvement which has allowed colleges to balloon their budgets unchecked (largely boosting things like administrator salaries), it seems a silly solution. At that point you might want to just issue a blank check to colleges and watch our country crumble under the weight.

I'm having trouble following. Are you talking about providing tax-payer funded free education or student debt for those who have already paid relief after that?

Both, to some extent. The reason *why* tuition rates were outrageous in the first place is government loans which removed incentives to cut costs. Changing from mostly-funding college to fully-funding college does nothing to resolve the problems with the expenses, it just shifts the burden and allows the system to hide those expenses which will only get worse over time.

And, broadly speaking, I'm against debt forgiveness because then you might as well repay everybody who paid off their debt by that logic.

Rasmoh posted...

Useless. We need a nationwide effort to encourage people to pursue paths that aren't college. Far too many people go to college despite having no business going there.

Also, colleges are quickly becoming redundant because most things that you learn in college can be learned online for free. We need to move away from the 4 year degree model and into a certified specialization model instead.

Which are other issues as well.
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EightySeven posted...

In order to be fair they should probably figure out the value of that and pay that much of the student debt for people who went to school before this bill. People coming into the system now come out with a financial advantage over them.

Yeah I don't think I would benefit from education either. I know the entire point is to encourage education, but can I just have the cash value instead?
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Rasmoh posted...

MacrossSpecial posted...

Sounds like your problem is more with the education industry than community colleges.

This is a redundant statement. Community colleges capitalize on the bloated nature of the higher education industry. Offering a free year of community college is a bandaid on the toe of a leg that's infected with gangrene.

It sounds like there is an issue with properly educating people on education where you live

You're naive if you think it's just where I live. It's a problem in high schools throughout America. There is a perpetual emphasis on going to college at any cost, because getting a degree will make you successful and rich rich rich! Who cares if you graduated high school with a 2.3 GPA? Who cares if your degree has almost no practical applications? Surely you will find someone to pay you 6 figures for your degree in Gender Studies!

Why do you think that the student loan crisis is a thing? People have been spoonfed for decades now with the thought that getting a degree, any degree, at any cost, will result in wealth and success.

It makes me sad listening to people like you. I can see how I would've screwed myself had I made just one bad choice in my life.

I'm all about personal responsibility, but I understand that not everyone grew up with good role models.
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RE: Retroactivity

It's like $500. Come on now.
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MacrossSpecial posted...

It makes me sad listening to people like you. I can see how I would've screwed myself had I made just one bad choice in my life.

I'm all about personal responsibility, but I understand that not everyone grew up with good role models.

Dude you can get bent.
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MacrossSpecial posted...

It makes me sad listening to people like you. I can see how I would've screwed myself had I made just one bad choice in my life.

I'm all about personal responsibility, but I understand that not everyone grew up with good role models.

I've made bad choices before, but I can't really say that I've ever screwed myself. I'm 28, married to a great woman, own two houses and live a relatively comfortable middle class lifestyle without having to worry about bills much. And I'd wager that the only "good" role model I have is my mother, who is in fact such a royal screwup that all I really wanted growing up was to not be like her, which is kind of good in a way.

Personal responsibility comes from within. Unfortunately, personal responsibility is dying and it's taking society down with it.
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This seems smart

How long until Trump condemns it with a tweet
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It'll cost billions to taxpayers, all for Liberal Arts, Womyn's Studies, and African American Studies majors, with the STEM students being forced to take classes that would be in those useless majors, all for bloat.

I didnt waste my time going to college and instead opened a business that became extremely successful in a short time, allowing me to become much richer than that other guy.
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whats the difference between community college and a regular college?

community college is smaller? does it offer the same courses?
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FatalAccident posted...

whats the difference between community college and a regular college?

community college is smaller? does it offer the same courses?

Community college is a 2-year college, often considered a more affordable stepping stone to the typical 4-year universities.

FatalAccident posted...

whats the difference between community college and a regular college?

community college is smaller? does it offer the same courses?

It's like buying generic brand twinkies. Close enough to call them the same thing, but at the end of the day you're still getting a worse product.

In any case, haven't tuition prices been raising like, every year?
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FatalAccident posted...

whats the difference between community college and a regular college?

community college is smaller? does it offer the same courses?

It really depends on the college and professors

Some states have community colleges that are almost indistinguishable from a university aside from the lower tuition. It isn't uncommon for professors to teach at a larger campus and then drive to a community college to teach other courses in situations like that.

In other places community colleges are more similar to a trade school. Basically the biggest difference is lower tuition for accredited courses, but obviously a university comes with a lot of advantages if someone can afford it.
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Mead posted...

FatalAccident posted...

whats the difference between community college and a regular college?

community college is smaller? does it offer the same courses?

It really depends on the college and professors

Some states have community colleges that are almost indistinguishable from a university aside from the lower tuition. It isn't uncommon for professors to teach at a larger campus and then drive to a community college to teach other courses in situations like that.

In other places community colleges are more similar to a trade school. Basically the biggest difference is lower tuition for accredited courses, but obviously a university comes with a lot of advantages if someone can afford it.

community colleges in all the places I lived, wouldn't offer things like a masters or things like that if you wanted it. some even only went up to 2 year degrees. so for a lot it was just a way to make the first 2 years of their chosen major, cheaper.
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Oh now they do it, a couple of years after I finished community college that took a little longer than it should have because I had to work a full-time job to pay for classes because I didn't qualify for financial aid.

TheWorstPoster posted...

It'll cost billions to taxpayers, all for Liberal Arts, Womyn's Studies, and African American Studies majors, with the STEM students being forced to take classes that would be in those useless majors, all for bloat.

Hey now, let's not forget that you're a waste of taxpayer money, too.
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