Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 422: It's The Great Pumpkin, Sister Abigail

(+) Yeah! (+)

*Wakes up*

Um...is this real? Goddamn, I am glad I bought tickets. Birthday show, PPV, no Reigns or Wyatt, and AJ and ANGLE instead? Fuck yes.
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TheRock1525 posted...

If they're going to let Kurt Angle wrestle they damn well better let Daniel Bryan wrestle at some point before his contract is up.

This. Roman being out also saves them the problem of having the Shield win a 3 on 5. I feel like now that team can lose and they'll just make a big deal about how having Roman instead of Kurt would have been the difference maker because Roman. Still, hope Roman and Bray make full recoveries.
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I thought the Shield would lose to set up a Survivor Series storyline

Though with surprise AJ vs. Finn I don't know
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I just don't see how they would make such a big deal out of the Shield reuniting (especially when it's the last real way they have to get Roman cheered), just to have them take a loss, regardless of the odds. It could have been the Shield vs. the rest of the Raw roster in an elimination match and I'd still expect Roman to stand tall after Dean and Seth get eliminated to make his win more dramatic.
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Might have missed this being discussed earlier, but it looks like Nia is taking a little time off too, no direct reason as to why though.
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She's unhappy about the direction of the storyline between her and Alexa; she stormed out of RAW apparently but unlike Neville, they want to keep her happy because of Dwayne.
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This is totally a Smark World Problem but who goes over in AJ vs Finn now?

Conventional wisdom says AJ but that stinks for Finn, but I wouldn't want AJ to lose either.
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Jakyl25 posted...

This is totally a Smark World Problem but who goes over in AJ vs Finn now?

Conventional wisdom says AJ but that stinks for Finn, but I wouldn't want AJ to lose either.

Finn should just not wear make-up. Easy solution.
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Jakyl25 posted...

This is totally a Smark World Problem but who goes over in AJ vs Finn now?

Conventional wisdom says AJ but that stinks for Finn, but I wouldn't want AJ to lose either.

Finn wins if Demon. AJ if not.

They should both be Champs next year, but AJ is probably sooner, so AJ needs to go over if they are both normal.

Jakyl25 posted...

This is totally a Smark World Problem but who goes over in AJ vs Finn now?

Conventional wisdom says AJ but that stinks for Finn, but I wouldn't want AJ to lose either.

It probably won't be clean cause I have a feeling Anderson/Gallows interfe-

Oh wait they're kinda irrelevant now. In that case maybe Finn cause I think AJ can take a loss pretty well and not lose momentum
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Jinder interferes 6 or 7 minutes in and Finn wins.
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If WWE applies MMA logic, the guy taking the fight on short notice almost always loses.
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FFDragon posted...

If WWE applies MMA logic, the guy taking the fight on short notice almost always loses.

Pro wrestling logic has ALWAYS been that the substitute wins though
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scarletspeed7 posted...

She's unhappy about the direction of the storyline between her and Alexa; she stormed out of RAW apparently but unlike Neville, they want to keep her happy because of Dwayne.

Sorry, what?

You're the most protected person on the roster and you say "This storyline didn't go my way! I'm taking time off!" Like yo, you are dangerous and injure people and you want to walk out for a stupid reason like that? Literally everyone around you have stupid awful storylines and they don't walk out!

I have a hard time believing that's why she's leaving though.
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Dave on Nia Jax

There really isn't much to the story of Nia Jax's situation with WWE, which has gotten overblown due to the lack of information out on it.

Jax has a few weeks off, until the European tour. You can call it a leave of absence, although she and WWE are both denying that, but that's a vague terminology and it could be called that.

WWE's tour of Europe will kick off in Glasgow, Scotland on November 1st.

Jax is just resting up since she wasn't figured into any major storylines, but according to those close to her, stories that she stormed off at Raw (she wasn't even at Raw to begin with), asked for a leave of absence, or is unhappy with her pay are all untrue.

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I know Im going to get raged at for this, but minus the injuring other people part thats pretty much what Punk did, and nobody ever seems to think he did anything wrong.

According to Alexa, she needs a reset or a rest, which seems like it could definitely be code for walking out due to being unhappy with her storyline, but theres no real way to know.

Edit: What Dave said certainly makes sense with all of that
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Plenty of people think Punk did things wrong he just has a lot of fanboys whereas Nia does not, so you'd get a more grounded look at what she did than with him.
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Nia Jax vs Triple H at Wrestlemania?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Nia Jax vs Triple H at Wrestlemania?

Since Trips rarely seems to win at Mania anymore, shed probably go over!
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Lopen posted...

Plenty of people think Punk did things wrong he just has a lot of fanboys whereas Nia does not, so you'd get a more grounded look at what she did than with him.

The problem is Punks fanboys cant think rationally and cant understand that he shares any of the blame. Im one of the biggest Paige supporters in the topic, but even I could admit that she screwed up, and screwed up hard. A year or two ago when I tried to say Punk shared the blame I had pretty much the entire topic jumping down my throat for daring to say Punk was in the wrong about something.
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i like punk

he didn't handle the situation properly

no one involved did
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He's such a lovable misanthrope
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Punk was an independant contractor unhappy with his contractor, so he left.

Then he got fired on his wedding day because.....?
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Because they didn't know it was his wedding day

Despite granting AJ Lee time off to marry him
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Personally I think Punk walking out was for the best. Bryan winning to close out Mania is my favorite moment in wrestling, and Ive been watching since the early days of the Ultimate Warrior (he was always my favorite as a kid). If Punk doesnt walk out, that doesnt happen.
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RaidenZeroX posted...

Lopen posted...

Plenty of people think Punk did things wrong he just has a lot of fanboys whereas Nia does not, so you'd get a more grounded look at what she did than with him.

The problem is Punks fanboys cant think rationally and cant understand that he shares any of the blame. Im one of the biggest Paige supporters in the topic, but even I could admit that she screwed up, and screwed up hard. A year or two ago when I tried to say Punk shared the blame I had pretty much the entire topic jumping down my throat for daring to say Punk was in the wrong about something.

I decided to not instantly slaughter you and go about this like an adult...

What would YOU have done differently

I think what really turned fans against Punk was the slow realization that this wasn't some huge real-life angle to get WWE to cave in to his demands so he could come back on his own terms.

As people realized, no, he's legit done with pro wrestling, they kinda stopped caring.

Smarks are entitled like that.
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Good guys WWE bankrolling a never ending court case against Punk to bleed him dry.

Also according to WWE the punk walkout was irrelevant, they have stated that the plan always was for Bryan to get the big win at mania.
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voltch posted...

Good guys WWE bankrolling a never ending court case against Punk to bleed him dry.

Also according to WWE the punk walkout was irrelevant, they have stated that the plan always was for Bryan to get the big win at mania.

Have they ever ACTUALLY tried to claim that?

They let Bryan release a book that told the truth about it, while at the same time using their power to scrub AJ Lee from Bryan's history in it.
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So I think with Angle in we probably get Axel vs Jordan in some capacity

or Jordan runs in to save his dad in this no dq match

and someone has to interfere with AJ.I didnt watch Smackdown though so dont know if it would be Baron ornot
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voltch posted...

Good guys WWE bankrolling a never ending court case against Punk to bleed him dry.

Also according to WWE the punk walkout was irrelevant, they have stated that the plan always was for Bryan to get the big win at mania.

Even though Daniel Bryan, Batista, and others have said, "Yeah, no. The plan was for Batista to come out on top at Wrestlemania until the Punk walkout and Yes Movement."
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ScareChan posted...

So I think with Angle in we probably get Axel vs Jordan in some capacity

or Jordan runs in to save his dad in this no dq match

and someone has to interfere with AJ.I didnt watch Smackdown though so dont know if it would be Baron ornot

Can you imagine the backlash that would happen if they have Angle get jumped before the match and Jason Jordan replaced him?
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Jakyl25 posted...

As people realized, no, he's legit done with pro wrestling, they kinda stopped caring.

I think this is right, but it's more "the people who thought Punk is kinda full of it to varying degrees didn't change their stance and the fanboys had less fervor so you could actually hear them" than people actually turning on him directly.
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This is exactly what I was talking about. Some people just cant see Punk as ever in the wrong about anything, nothing is ever his fault, even if the blame is shared.

For starters, I would be a professional, and not walk out because I felt like facing Triple H at Wrestlemania was beneath me. Dont give me any of that waahhh Punk was injured crap either, because you know damn well that he would have worked through it if he had the main event spot he wanted. Punk thinks hes bigger than the business, and nobody is, not even Austin when he did the same thing.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

ScareChan posted...

So I think with Angle in we probably get Axel vs Jordan in some capacity

or Jordan runs in to save his dad in this no dq match

and someone has to interfere with AJ.I didnt watch Smackdown though so dont know if it would be Baron ornot

Can you imagine the backlash that would happen if they have Angle get jumped before the match and Jason Jordan replaced him?

I can actually see this happening, I hope it doesnt though. I want to see if Angle still has it.
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RaidenZeroX posted...

This is exactly what I was talking about. Some people just cant see Punk as ever in the wrong about anything, nothing is ever his fault, even if the blame is shared.

For starters, I would be a professional, and not walk out because I felt like facing Triple H at Wrestlemania was beneath me. Dont give me any of that waahhh Punk was injured crap either, because you know damn well that he would have worked through it if he had the main event spot he wanted. Punk thinks hes bigger than the business, and nobody is, not even Austin when he did the same thing.

No offense... are you stupid? )on this, not overall)

Yes. If I have a carrot I wanted my WHOLE life I'm more apt to work through pain, then something that is quite clearly beneath me, with a guy I hate, that I won't enjoy, and hurts my brand...

If I have the flu I'll probably call into work. If I have the flu and the only thing we are doing at work today is a potluck and field day, I'm probably going in flu be damned.

I don't think Punk felt like he was bigger than the business, but I did think he mostly did it for his own reasons. He said he wanted to main event Wrestlemania, he was their champion fighting through constant injuries for a solid year, and then The Rock comes back and Punk wasn't allowed to even be involved in a threeway for the main event position (which probably would've been a much better story and match). And he was told he wasn't getting the main event position, so he walked.

Being injured doesn't hurt either since, well, the doctor told him that he could have died if he kept wrestling with that. So it might have turned out for the better.

But it's like... I don't get people who say they think Punk is bigger than the business or that he's a self-centered prick. He might be a self-centered prick and probably is, but it's not because he walked out.
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I definitely sympathize with Austin a lot more than Punk though.

Austin walked out not because he was jobbing but because he was jobbing in such a dumb way that it was wasting a money match on some throwaway Raw garbage. It's kinda the same thing as Neville walking out, which I have total sympathy for as well.

Punk was more just entitlement, thinking he clearly deserved a main event. I mean, I wouldn't even necessarily disagree that he probably should've had a Main Event slot, and I think Triple H is one of the few wrestlers out there who's actually more overrated than Punk himself, but even I'm not going to claim that beating Triple H isn't a big deal or some sorta misuse.
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Also I'll say I would have a ton more respect for Punk if he walked out instead of losing to The Rock the year previous, rather than walking out when he did.

That was way more egregious in a booking sense than Punk not getting a Wrestlemania Main Event. Like you build up your main guy for a year to lose to a guy who wrestles once every 5 years? So dumb.
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Lopen posted...

Also I'll say I would have a ton more respect for Punk if he walked out instead of losing to The Rock the year previous, rather than walking out when he did.

That was way more egregious in a booking sense than Punk not getting a Wrestlemania Main Event. Like you build up your main guy for a year to lose to a guy who wrestles once every 5 years? So dumb.

Jobbing to the biggest wrestler of all time for his 10th World Title while egregiously stupid... you really don't have a position to quit over that.

SSJBGenkiDama posted...

RaidenZeroX posted...

This is exactly what I was talking about. Some people just cant see Punk as ever in the wrong about anything, nothing is ever his fault, even if the blame is shared.

For starters, I would be a professional, and not walk out because I felt like facing Triple H at Wrestlemania was beneath me. Dont give me any of that waahhh Punk was injured crap either, because you know damn well that he would have worked through it if he had the main event spot he wanted. Punk thinks hes bigger than the business, and nobody is, not even Austin when he did the same thing.

No offense... are you stupid? )on this, not overall)

Yes. If I have a carrot I wanted my WHOLE life I'm more apt to work through pain, then something that is quite clearly beneath me, with a guy I hate, that I won't enjoy, and hurts my brand...

If I have the flu I'll probably call into work. If I have the flu and the only thing we are doing at work today is a potluck and field day, I'm probably going in flu be damned.

Im sorry, I must be stupid for not siding completely with your precious Punk. Ill go tell my wife to take the kids and leave me before the stupid infects them too. Ive looked at what happened and made my own determination, I dont just blindly believe the Punk narrative.

Just because he worked for it doesnt mean they owe him a damn thing. By your logic, anyone who wants it and works hard should get to main event Mania. That makes pretty much the entire roster worthy of the main event at Mania.

Like Triple H or not, the guy is a huge name, and is not beneath Punk. Its that kind of Im better than everybody attitude that makes Punk look like an entitled baby.

Shawn and Bret hated each other and they were still professional (up until Montreal), why does Punk get a free pass on all this stuff on your eyes? Could it be that youre biased and incapable of admitting your hero had flaws?
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I think Punk didn't throw a stink over losing to The Rock because there were talks of him being in a triple threat and that he also really likes Dwayne and is friends with him.
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Punk did deserve a main event spot, he also did the right thing to walk out.

He totally lost his passion for wrestling and left with more than enough notice for them to adjust plans.

No point in him being on autopilot in dead angles cos his heart's no longer in it and his body's wrecked.

I wonder if raiden believes wwe are in the right to employ all their guys as independent contractors and have quashed all hopes of a union.
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RaidenZeroX posted...

SSJBGenkiDama posted...

RaidenZeroX posted...

This is exactly what I was talking about. Some people just cant see Punk as ever in the wrong about anything, nothing is ever his fault, even if the blame is shared.

For starters, I would be a professional, and not walk out because I felt like facing Triple H at Wrestlemania was beneath me. Dont give me any of that waahhh Punk was injured crap either, because you know damn well that he would have worked through it if he had the main event spot he wanted. Punk thinks hes bigger than the business, and nobody is, not even Austin when he did the same thing.

No offense... are you stupid? )on this, not overall)

Yes. If I have a carrot I wanted my WHOLE life I'm more apt to work through pain, then something that is quite clearly beneath me, with a guy I hate, that I won't enjoy, and hurts my brand...

If I have the flu I'll probably call into work. If I have the flu and the only thing we are doing at work today is a potluck and field day, I'm probably going in flu be damned.

Im sorry, I must be stupid for not siding completely with your precious Punk. Ill go tell my wife to take the kids and leave me before the stupid infects them too.

Just because he worked for it doesnt mean they owe him a damn thing. By your logic, anyone who wants it and works hard should get to main event Mania. That makes pretty much the entire roster worthy of the main event at Mania.

Like Triple H or not, the guy is a huge name, and is not beneath Punk. Its that kind of Im better than everybody attitude that makes Punk look like an entitled baby.

Shawn and Bret hated each other and they were still professional (up until Montreal), why does Punk get a free pass on all this stuff on your eyes? Could it be that youre biased and incapable of admitting your hero had flaws?

Honestly, if Reigns can ME, then yeah. ANYONE WHO WORKS HARD should be able to ME Mania. Trips is beneath him. (At that time) By a massive degree at that. And while it's true they don't owe anyone anything, he didn't owe them anything either when he was fucking hurt. Punk did NOTHING wrong.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Like, this is absolutely insane to me.

They work so hard to make such a nothing show... and then they just say "Well, we have no choice but to take our biggest babyface star Roman Reigns out and put in Kurt Angle, and then we'll have to get rid of the debut of Bray Wyatt with Sister Abigail that we've built up forever and I guess we'll just make Finn Balor vs AJ Styles." And now everyone absolutely wants to watch your show.

This is madness. How does this not wake somebody up and tell them that what they're doing is dog shit?

I mean there's a pretty obvious reason why you wouldn't want to combine "Shield Reunion," "Angle Return to the Ring," and "Bullet Club Match" all on a throwaway PPV in throwaway matches...
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Wow, bret and Shawn having physical altercations backstage is professional?

Shawn implying bret was cheating on his wife is being professional?

Shawn's temper tantrum on Vader was professional?

Shawn might be a top level wrestler but i wouldn't call him a true professional.

Bret had every reason to be bitter for a good number of years.
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I dont think theyre right at all. The whole independent contractors thing is complete BS in my eyes.

You can say his body is wrecked all you want, but a guy with Punks ego would work through it if they gave him what he wanted, as I stated earlier.

Both Punk and WWE are going to tell the side of the story that makes them look best, and will omit things that dont fit their narrative. The truth is somewhere in the middle of those two stories.

I think they both have fault here, but because I dont 100% blame WWE and think Punk has no fault, suddenly Im the idiot in the eyes of all these super Punk fans. This is why I had the disclaimer at the start, because I know you guys cant take a single negative word about your guy. This is worse than saying something negative about Undertale or Metal Gear Solid.
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I'm a fan of Punk the performer but I was unaware anybody had the opinion that Phil Brooks the man is anything but a douche.

At the very least he's the last person I would accuse of having fanboys who think he can do no wrong. That would probably be Bret.
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TheRock1525 posted...

I mean there's a pretty obvious reason why you wouldn't want to combine "Shield Reunion," "Angle Return to the Ring," and "Bullet Club Match" all on a throwaway PPV in throwaway matches...

If you consider less PPVs throwaway, you create more big moments to use on the big ones

Believe it or not there's enough talent on the roster that you can make enough big moments that you can afford to spend these ones

But yeah if you forfeit 80% of your year because you consider it all filler, then there becomes a scarcity of big moments.
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I'm talking more the stale, boring direction WWE is going with to create storylines nobody cares about and moments nobody cares about.

Like I think people were really excited about a Shield reunion until it was a silly, stupid, and overbooked 3v5 match. I may have thought it was dumb and boring, but I know other people were excited. But then it became less interesting once they pulled this nonsense with it.

And it's like, they have a four or five month feud with Bray and Finn and people are like "Okay, I mean, Demon Finn Balor yay, fun." And then they drag it on forever until it's to this terrible, awful point and literally nobody cares and thinks it's a total joke.

My point is that their writing is shit, they find ways to actively make their storylines less interesting with nonsense, and they could do much better, especially since they just created more hype from last minute forced decisions than they did with two months to build to this show.
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