Board 8 > Anyone want to talk Thor: Ragnarok? (Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

DeathChicken posted...

That was basically the plot of Last Action Hero

Oh yeah

I havent seem it since like 1996.
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FFDragon posted...

nothing will ever beat Nicolas Cage pretending to be John Travolta pretending to be Nicolas Cage.

Man, its unfair to count that one.
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what about John Travolta pretending to be Nicolas Cage pretending to be John Travolta
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Pros:
-Cate Blanchett is always intoxicating in any role.
-Doctor Strange is a unique voice and was packaged perfectly; finally, a cameo in a film really feels like a classic Marvel Comics appearance.
-Skurge wasn't actually a cardboard cutout like I expected.
-Hulk was way better in this movie than any film before.
-Loki's face.
-Jeff Goldblum should just be added to Infinity War.

Cons:
-Can we please for the love of Odin stop jobbing out villains at the end of a Marvel film? You know what should have been a post-credits scene? Hela and Surtur battling for all of eternity on the charred rubble of a ruined Asgard. Granted, we didn't see a body in this one, but the intent was clear - Hela is done. Bye. No need to ever revisit a character that could be explored with some layer and depth. Surely there's no versatility to a Norse god. Sorry that I get pretty salty about this, but if you want to build a universe, you need more than good guys and Thanos.
-Odin's death was shoved between comedic sequences and felt really forced.
-Man, the Warriors Three got shafted. It was like the Social Outcasts took on Brock Lesnar.
-If you want to do Skurge's Last Stand, do Skurge's Last Stand. It could have been 5 minutes at max and super-poignant.
-Valkyrie was just about the most boring character. Good actress, but very weak writing. Ultimately, there was a lot of stuff going on in this film, and I think that B-List characters deserve better film presence. She got an entrance and then after that, she became a standard piece of Marvel fare.

Ultimately, I did enjoy the film a lot, but I guess the booker in me mostly gets angry at killing off characters. I think it sets a dangerous precedent and really limits future storytelling.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

-Skurge wasn't actually a cardboard cutout like I expected.

What

He was a cliche in every way. From the moment he was introduced I practically knew his entire character arc. I was incredibly bored when he died because I saw it coming from 200 miles away.

That's actually my main gripe with this movie. It was too cliche at times. A lot of the jokes fell flat because the punchline was already obvious from the start (Korg talking about the foundation being in tact and then Asgard explodes, if anyone falls for that joke these days it's because they're 5).

I guess my other main gripe is that there's just too many jokes, but that's more of a personal issue now. I'm with the people who are getting tired of the constant comedic behaviors of these movies. Some drama or tension for longer than a minute would not make the movie worse! In fact it'd probably make it better, come on Marvel. Give us some genuine stakes and real character moments. Thor unleashing his true power could have been a much better moment, but it amounted to nothing in the end.

It was still a good movie, I definitely enjoyed many parts of it and there were still some fantastic jokes. Hulk running up from the background and rocketing off to beat up Surtur was my favorite.
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Okay, I guess I should say that Skurge wasn't just a regular henchman which is a pretty high bar to set these days at Marvel. They do their villains an injustice. And when they don't, people don't care. Poor Robert Redford.
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Well, people have some theories about Hela

Her being the Death Thanos seeks to court

Kinda doubt it, but we'll see.

Also people need to be surprised for jokes to work?a
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Taimanin_Asagi posted...

Well, people have some theories about Hela

Her being the Death Thanos seeks to court

Kinda doubt it, but we'll see.

I would be all for that, but I can't see Marvel being that clever. It would be EXTREMELY clever though. A goddess of death who has died being the Death incarnate of Marvel? Awesome.
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Taimanin_Asagi posted...

Also people need to be surprised for jokes to work?

Well I always assumed comedy was about the unexpected. Maybe I'm weird, but I won't laugh at a joke if I already know the punchline before it's told. Just like I won't be surprised or sad at someone's death if I see it coming from the beginning of the movie.

That Hela theory is actually pretty cool though. I could see that happening since I doubt they'd want to cast a little girl in the role.

But yeah it's unlikely they'd really be that clever...
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After seeing Hela in this movie, I really want a weird-ass Thunderbolts movie to involve Hela reigning over Hell and sending Zemo back to the world of the living solely to be her agent of chaos on Earth.
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Hela is good as far as the MCU's terrible villains go. It's really Vulture > Loki > Who cares > Malekith

Villains are definitely the weakest major aspect of the franchise.
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And Loki is barely a villain
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Loki is the villain in Thor 1 and Avengers.
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The villain in Avengers is the Avengers. Loki is just a guy who does stuff.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

The villain in Avengers is the Avengers. Loki is just a guy who does stuff.

He invades Earth on behalf of a grapefruit alien.
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Yeah but so did Superman.
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He didn't stand much of a chance against the Avengers though, he wasn't even the main threat

so barely a villain

And now he's a good guy
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Anagram posted...

Hela is good as far as the MCU's terrible villains go. It's really Vulture > Loki > Who cares > Malekith

Villains are definitely the weakest major aspect of the franchise.

Truth. Villains have been the weakest point of the MCU.
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AquaArcane posted...

Well I always assumed comedy was about the unexpected. Maybe I'm weird, but I won't laugh at a joke if I already know the punchline before it's told. Just like I won't be surprised or sad at someone's death if I see it coming from the beginning of the movie.

I get this but I also had a weird example of the exact opposite yesterday watching Stranger Things 2

Johnathan and Nancy presumably had sex, and then the next morning at breakfast the guy they're staying with asks Jonathan "how was the pull-out", referring to the pull-out bed. And I knew in that split second Johnathan would do the "choke on their drink" bit that people always do if someone says something shocking or unexpected. I knew it. I've seen that a dozen times or more.

But I still laughed!
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AquaArcane posted...

Well I always assumed comedy was about the unexpected.

comedy is about wait for it

the idea that you couldn't laugh at the same joke (timing) more than once since you already know what's coming is baffling to me

AquaArcane posted...

And now he's a good guy

or is he
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I'm of the theory that Hela teleported away right before Surtur's sword struck her.

There's a pretty clear green flash right before, and rumors going around that Blanchett is in Infinity War.

Thanos is also with Hela now in the comics over Death herself because he finally realized Death had been playing him (and is now hooking up with his son) so maybe!
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LeonhartFour posted...

the idea that you couldn't laugh at the same joke (timing) more than once since you already know what's coming is baffling to me

It's more when the joke has been used multiple times. Marvel has this tendency to reuse a lot of their jokes. Hulk picking up Thor and smashing him around the same exact way he did Loki, I saw that coming in Avengers and it was still hilarious so yeah it is possible for a joke to be funny even if you know what will happen, but then it wasn't funny in this movie because it was just the same joke with a different coat of paint. I knew it was going to happen and they even dragged it out a bit too long for me and it ruined the comedic timing to me.

Anyway, we could argue all day about comedy but I already know my sense of humor is a bit off compared to others so I'mma just drop this now since it's a matter of opinion, really.

Murphiroth posted...

Thanos is also with Hela now in the comics over Death herself because he finally realized Death had been playing him (and is now hooking up with his son) so maybe!

looooooooool
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Loki's reaction was what made that part funny, not Hulk actually doing that to Thor.
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Loki was a pretty good villain in Thor 1. Poor dude had motivation, his family sucked. It all went out the window as of Avengers, but Thor 1 was cool in that regard
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Loki was awesome in Avengers and I think its weird that people are saying he wasnt the villain. The whole climax was about fighting him and the aliens.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Loki was awesome in Avengers and I think its weird that people are saying he wasnt the villain. The whole climax was about fighting him and the aliens.

I liked him better in Thor, but he was still a good villain there, yes.
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I mean in the sense that all of his neat motivation in Thor ("I just wanted Daddy to love me but he was a dick and only liked my brother who is also a dick! Also I'm adopted! Also I'm a trickster archetype but I'm probably using that as an excuse for poor coping!") kind of vanished in Avengers. He was just a cackling supervillain there
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Loki's a top five MCU character, and I think he's been pretty excellent in everything he's been in.
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DeathChicken posted...

I mean in the sense that all of his neat motivation in Thor ("I just wanted Daddy to love me but he was a dick and only liked my brother who is also a dick! Also I'm adopted! Also I'm a trickster archetype but I'm probably using that as an excuse for poor coping!") kind of vanished in Avengers. He was just a cackling supervillain there

I thought this was explained quite well during that conversation he has with Thor right before Thor and Iron Man fight. His desire for a throne, because he was denied one, is what motivated him and made him desperate enough to work with Thanos/The Other.

He just masked that when dealing with the other characters because why would he expose that to them.
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Saw this late, just today. Great movie, though. Definitely on the top tier of marvel movies for me.

I think the only time the humor didn't work for me (including Asgard getting blown up-- I think it was intended to lighten that up to drive home that the heroes had in fact won in spirit despite Asgard getting destroyed because it's a people not a place yadda yadda) was the very opening scene where Thor is bantering with the demon lord guy. I "get" the complaints, though-- this is actually how I felt about Age of Ultron on a second watch. Like that movie was just... no one was taking it seriously. The heroes were cracking jokes, and Ultron emulating Tony Stark was jabbing right back.

I think Hela being generally hella serious helped it a lot in that regard. Like I don't mind the heroes generally being silly but it's important that the villains are generally playing it straight so it doesn't get excessive.

Hela in general made this movie good I think. Probably the best villain in the MCU aside from Loki and The Winter Soldier-- for the movies they are the villain in, anyway. Really hoping she didn't get wasted by the demon lord dude.
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I actually liked the bantering at the beginning. Not necessarily because it was funny, but because Thor is so much better as the character that's just so confident and arrogant that he actually does stuff like that. Like, characters like Captain America, Black Widow, and Hawkeye... If they were constantly bantering and never taking anything seriously, that'd seem weird, because they're more "fragile" from a "Can actually be killed" standpoint. But Thor is so far above most everybody that him doing stuff like that feels like it fits, since he can actually afford to.
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Yeah, I love cocky, trash-talking Thor.
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Yeah I mean, it's not out of character or anything-- it was just like, I dunno, he was supposed to be in trouble or something and the payout wasn't terribly good.

I mean I'm not raging about it. I'm just saying that's only scene in the movie I honestly think would've been better played completely straight. I mostly was just using it as a segue to defend the use of humor at the end and complain about Age of Ultron, which is honestly the only Marvel movie I felt was actually hurt by excessive funny haha stuff.
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"Thor, son of Odin!"

"Surtur, son of.....a bitch!"

Personally I love that bit because you can tell he's genuinely trying to think of Surtur's parentage and just gives up, likely because he didn't really pay attention to his lessons as a child.

The spinning on the chain thing should have only been done once though.
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Haven't read anything here yet but just leaving the theater and want to rage at the horrific treatment of the Warriors Three
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eh I didn't even miss 'em
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As much as I liked them, I expected it. They're extremely minor in the comics, so I couldn't see them getting a big role at all
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But they did have big roles in the other Thor movies so for them to be so casually discarded just felt wrong
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I think the warriors three missed out on having a cool 3v1 fight vs Hela. That's a missed opportunity... but it's a movie packed with awesome scenes, so it's not like we missed out on something awesome for a boring movie.

I really don't care that they died though. They were just boring stereotypes. Maybe they are cool in the comics, idk, but I didn't find them entertaining at all. I found Cap's Howling Commandos more entertaining and personable, which is funny because they are practically the same characters.

I kinda wish Skurge had died a little better too but oh well.

Sif is conveniently offworld or some shit and our boy Heimdall made it through so it's all good.
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CoolCly posted...

I think the warriors three missed out on having a cool 3v1 fight vs Hela. That's a missed opportunity.

This is my issue. I get.them dying, but two of them just stood there and died and they didn't even get (either) of Fandral's actors back for his death. At least give them a moment like Hogun got.
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StealThisSheen posted...

They're extremely minor in the comics, so I couldn't see them getting a big role at all

Each one of them has about 600 appearances apiece.
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is that seriously a third new actor for the swashbuckler?

that's how hilariously forgettable these guys are, i didn't notice and wouldn't have noticed if they were around more
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CoolCly posted...

is that seriously a third new actor for the swashbuckler?

that's how hilariously forgettable these guys are, i didn't notice and wouldn't have noticed if they were around more

Chuck was playing Fandral again.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

CoolCly posted...

is that seriously a third new actor for the swashbuckler?

that's how hilariously forgettable these guys are, i didn't notice and wouldn't have noticed if they were around more

Chuck was playing Fandral again.

Was he? Didn't look like him to me but he had about 20 seconds of screen time so i could be wrong
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It was definitely him; I remember someone I went with commenting that it was weird to see the new Shazam over here in Marvel.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

They're extremely minor in the comics, so I couldn't see them getting a big role at all

Each one of them has about 600 appearances apiece.

Right, but how many of those appearances actually have them doing anything of importance?
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They probably wanted to show Hela being so powerful that she can strike down Thor's friends easily, but it doesn't work because none of them really did much before and they're all so minor.
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StealThisSheen posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

They're extremely minor in the comics, so I couldn't see them getting a big role at all

Each one of them has about 600 appearances apiece.

Right, but how many of those appearances actually have them doing anything of importance?

Well, most of Simonson's run, significant portions of 2000s runs, their various solo appearances...
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Murphiroth posted...

"Surtur, son of.....a bitch!"

Oh damn yes, that had me rolling. I forgot about that too, it was one of my favorite lines in the movie.

Also here's a review that I don't disagree with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZE0LedBp54

Definitely too predictable
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