Board 8 > Oathbringer, Book 3 of The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson

(+) Yeah! (+)

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

My favorite part about Sadeas is how the Kalinar POV in Book 1 hypes him up without even being there. You see how appalling it is for the bridge crew, but you're led to believe they're all that bad until you get snippets from other perspectives. No, it's just Saldeas's that's absolutely despicable, and he's been using it to great profit. It's horrible, and ruthless, and perfect. But more than that, he's the perfect foil to Dalinar, which made the thing with Adolin even more insane. Really enjoyed him.

Speaking of villains, I have high hopes for Taravangian, even if mostly because I'm itching to see more of that person.

Right now, that character in the spoiler is my biggest hope for becoming my favorite. We'll see.
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It's interesting because that guy is like, so many stages ahead of every other character we've been introduced to in terms of the end game. It's like he's training for the Cell Games or some shit and everyone else is worried about the Saiyans coming.
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I want to see more Zahel for obvious reasons.
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It's interesting because Mraize seems pretty dismissive of his plans. "I'm not worried about that one. The old fool sows chaos, but does not reach for the power offered by opportunity. He hides in his insignificant city, listening to its songs, thinking he plays in world events. He has no idea. His is not the position of the hunter." The ghostbloods in general seem to know more than they let on. Mraize and Iylatil appear to be worldhoppers and they likely don't even lead the organization.

I'm really looking forward to more Zahel/Vasher too. I'm sure there's a good story there, and with Nightblood's introduction we may start seeing it soon. A Taln pov was something I was hoping for in WoR. Maybe this time.
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This topic is making me feel like I need to read the wiki. I forget so much.
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So I haven't read Edgedancer, but I remembered an idea that I had when I read WoR. Does Lift wear clothes? I mean, her art on the wiki has her clothed, but is she ever described anywhere in the text of Edgedancer as wearing actual clothes? I remembered reading her WoR chapter very carefully when I first had the idea that she was naked and there was no mention of it.

If she DOES wear clothes, is it mentioned how they stay on when she becomes frictionless?
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The things she touches also become frictionless. Same way Kaladin's become weightless.
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Samurai7 posted...

This topic is making me feel like I need to read the wiki. I forget so much.

I'll probably also be on the wiki a lot for book 3. There is so much stuff in the books that I've forgotten more than I remember. And the world-hopping stuff goes completely over my head as I haven't read any other Sanderson.
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The connections to other worlds are just a nice bonus his fans. If you want to read any of his other works, I'd recommend Warbreaker as it has the most important tie in thus far.
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I refused to read the released chapters because I'm insane, but I have it preordered and took off from Wednesday-Friday this week so I can read when I would normally be working.

Powered through the much shorter Edgedancer too in preparation.

Sanderson is the best author to ever live. I'm such an addict I named my irc server "stormlight"
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Yankees posted...

The connections to other worlds are just a nice bonus his fans. If you want to read any of his other works, I'd recommend Warbreaker as it has the most important tie in thus far.

I'd recommend Mistborn because it's the strongest IMO.

I'm not a terribly big fan of the tie-ins to other books but it doesn't ruin them for me; just takes me out of the world a bit to see something from a setting I parse as totally different. I also generally don't like the tie-in characters much because they often feel like author pets (particularly Wit). Oddly, I've been pretty fine with Zahel, despite the fact that I couldn't stand that character in another book.
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personally, i'd like tie ins to be more active and blatant but i understand why he keeps them subdued

it's why i'm such a huge fan of the MCU
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It seems like the Cosmere stuff becomes a little heavier with each successive book. I like the level its at with WoR and Bands of Mourning, and Secret History is great fan service. I love it and am very interested in the Silverlight novella that Brandon mentioned.
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Read through Edgedancer this weekend. I recommend it to those of you that haven't done so yet before Oathbringer if you can.
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Everything in Oathbringer has been wonderful so far.

You all who haven't touched it yet, I can't tell you how awesome it is.
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I don't have a strong opinion either way about the tie-in characters. My biggest problem is that I don't remember minor characters. If I read another book years down the line, I'm not going to remember who this tie-in character was. I remember hearing about how Hoid was some dude in Well of Ascension who took a bead, but I didn't remember that character at all.

Note: everything after this is conspiracy-theorist-tier level of me spouting weird ideas. Please disregard if you don't want to entertain my insanity.

I started reading Edgedancer mostly because of the thing I said earlier about how I'm convinced Lift needs to be naked. I, uhh... wanted to see how Sanderson described her and if he ever talks about her sliding around on clothes. >_> I can KINDA accept

The things she touches also become frictionless. Same way Kaladin's become weightless.

but I'm not super happy about it. I also feel like a lot of traditional modern clothes such as pants should fall off when she becomes awesome, but alas.

So far, the results of my peculiar study so far: Lift was described as wearing clothes as she escaped from the palace, but it was somewhat complicated. There was a loose shirt, and a tight shirt underneath, and the looser shirt was also tucked into trousers. My assumption is that the looser shirt was acting as suspenders for the trousers. In this scene, she only used her feet and face to slide, though she tumbled around for a while, but that could just be inertia at work.

She mentioned that the people at the palace tried to get her to wear robes and shoes, which tells me that she PREFERS not to wear lots of clothes! And she hates shoes, so I'm not sure she can make them slick (note: I still have more to read... so don't spoil me if she ever slides on her feet while wearing shoes).

Then she goes to a town and Sanderson goes into great detail talking about the clothes worn by people in this town including the fact that it's one long fabric wrapped and wound around a person's body. I think this is the kind of thing Lift needs to wear, because she needs to use gravity rather than friction to keep her clothes on. I think the skirt-aspect would just get in the way, though. Lift should wear a thing that wraps around her torso, kept up by her shoulders. The more skin she shows, the easier it'll be to slide on whatever surface she needs.

As she wanders the town, at one point she puts her hands in her pockets. Then she keeps a book inside her pockets. So... whatever she's wearing has to have big enough pockets for that.

And that's where I left off.
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Hoid taking the bead isn't actually in Well of Ascension. It happens behind the scenes and is in Secret History.
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Maniac64 posted...

Hoid taking the bead isn't actually in Well of Ascension. It happens behind the scenes and is in Secret History.

This.

The only thing that's in Well of Ascension is Vin notices a bead is missing IIRC.

Hoid does appear in WoA directly as the leader of the Terris refugees that Elend and Spook run into.

I really need to go back over the wiki.
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I'm actually a bit confused by that

Doesn't Hoid come by Kelsier in Secret History later on, when would he have had time to get wrapped up leading the Terris refugees? As I understand it, he was tricked by the Lord Ruler to look in the Terris Dominance just like everyone else, but I don't really get the timing of it all.
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How does this compare to Wheel of Time? I'm on the last book of WoT and I'm really grooving on it, but I can't tell how much of that is Sanderson and how much of it is just the satisfaction of everything Jordan did coming to a point. >_>
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Tom Bombadil posted...

How does this compare to Wheel of Time? I'm on the last book of WoT and I'm really grooving on it, but I can't tell how much of that is Sanderson and how much of it is just the satisfaction of everything Jordan did coming to a point. >_>

While I've never read the Wheel of Time (got about 25% of the way through the first book and ended up distracted by other stuff. Haven't picked it up again), the friend of mine that got me hooked on Sanderson has multiple times, and his thought on it was that Sanderson brought new energy into a series that had become kind of stale. Not firsthand experience obviously, but I trust his judgement.
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Eerieka posted...

I started reading Edgedancer mostly because of the thing I said earlier about how I'm convinced Lift needs to be naked. I, uhh... wanted to see how Sanderson described her and if he ever talks about her sliding around on clothes.

I'm not sure why you're so concerned about a 12 year old girl wearing clothes. That's just something you have to accept even if it doesn't make sense to you. You can't have a pre-teen girl sliding around all naked like, people would have some things to say about that (both in and outside the books).
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Regarding the whole clothes and friction thing, there's a cognitive aspect to the way that magic works in the Cosmere. Basically these things work the way that people think they're supposed to work.
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AquaArcane posted...

I'm not sure why you're so concerned about a 12 year old girl wearing clothes. That's just something you have to accept even if it doesn't make sense to you. You can't have a pre-teen girl sliding around all naked like, people would have some things to say about that (both in and outside the books).

Game of Thrones exists

As does anime

Tom Bombadil posted...

How does this compare to Wheel of Time? I'm on the last book of WoT and I'm really grooving on it, but I can't tell how much of that is Sanderson and how much of it is just the satisfaction of everything Jordan did coming to a point. >_>

I'd say Stormlight has something of a WoT-esque feel. I like both series very much.
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tcaz2 posted...

Game of Thrones exists

I don't recall any little girls being naked in that show, unless you're talking about the books.

I'd also argue Sanderson has a lighter tone than GoT.
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Eh, naked children in books aren't really that uncommon. Ender's Game, for example, has a few parts like that.
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Not a semi-main character though. Well probably, I've never read any books with naked children in them.

Clearly I need to expand my horizons
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Tom Bombadil posted...

How does this compare to Wheel of Time? I'm on the last book of WoT and I'm really grooving on it, but I can't tell how much of that is Sanderson and how much of it is just the satisfaction of everything Jordan did coming to a point. >_>

I'm a big fan of WoT, and I don't think Stormlight is on its level yet. It has potential to be there, though, and I feel WoT took some time to come into its own too, so yeah, it's highly recommended.

My biggest complaint about Stormlight compared to WoT is that the main character just isn't as interesting/morally complex as Rand is. Like... I'm not really that psyched to read a 10-book series about Kaladin (Stormlight main), he's okay but kinda boring so far. I think the rest of the main cast is really strong though, which helps make up for this. Dalinar in particular is an older man who grapples with actions he regrets as a young man and is a breath of fresh air compared to most fantasy major characters.
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AquaArcane posted...

Not a semi-main character though. Well probably, I've never read any books with naked children in them.

Clearly I need to expand my horizons

I'm pretty sure Ender is the main character in Ender's Game and yes he was a kid and naked.

Danaerys is in ASoIaF is legally a child by today's standards, but not biologically a child.
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The thing that surprises me most about this topic is that people exist who don't find Shallan unbearable.
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NeoElfboy posted...

My biggest complaint about Stormlight compared to WoT is that the main character just isn't as interesting/morally complex as Rand is. Like... I'm not really that psyched to read a 10-book series about Kaladin (Stormlight main), he's okay but kinda boring so far. I think the rest of the main cast is really strong though, which helps make up for this. Dalinar in particular is an older man who grapples with actions he regrets as a young man and is a breath of fresh air compared to most fantasy major characters.

Is Kaladin really the main though? Every book features a different character with backstory and flashbacks and he was the main in the first book, but WoR featured Shallan, and Oathbringer features Dalinar in that way.

Isn't the series supposed to be split into two five book arcs, similar to what Zelazny did with the Great Book of Amber?
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AquaArcane posted...

I don't recall any little girls being naked in that show, unless you're talking about the books.

I am talking about the books, and Sansa was stripped naked like three times over the course of the series (and all of the Starks are several years younger in the books, to the point that when she gets married to Tyrion she has barely even had her first period).

EDIT: And yes Danyris is 14 in the first book of ASOIAF as well.

I mean, that's still Game of Thrones though. And those are temporary scenes. We're talking about Lift being naked at all times so she can slide around effectively. That's just silly to me, even Game of Thrones wouldn't have a little girl running around permanently nude. And Sanderson's books I think are just a bit more family-friendly, so one of his favorite characters will probably be wearing clothes.

Wedge Antilles posted...

The thing that surprises me most about this topic is that people exist who don't find Shallan unbearable.

Uh because Shallan is awesome
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*cringe*

Different people have different opinions I guess.
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Shallan made me cringe quite a bit in TWoK, and some in WoR. But I really enjoyed her story in WoR so overall I don't mind her.

My biggest complaint about Stormlight compared to WoT is that the main character just isn't as interesting/morally complex as Rand is.

You're comparing Kaladin to a character who had like 14 books to develop. Rand's character climax was at the end of book 12 and it was amazing, but after 2 books? I think Kaladin is the better character at that point.

I also don't think Kaladin is meant to be the central character in the way that Rand was in WoT. He's the main character so far, but Dalinar is the first character Brandon wrote so it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up being more central to the series. Szeth too since he had the first prologue, and book 5 will give us his flashbacks. Or maybe there will be no one central character.
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They're all just a part of Hoid's story tbh.

Shallan has improved greatly since book one and I love her now.
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AquaArcane posted...

And Sanderson's books I think are just a bit more family-friendly

a bit? I'd say its a more than a bit.
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That was the joke, my friend
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When do books go up on Kindle? Curious if it'll be up at midnight PST or EST or something.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

When do books go up on Kindle? Curious if it'll be up at midnight PST or EST or something.

I believe it's your local time. There are reports of people changing their location to India and downloading the book.
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...I might have to try that. I could start reading it tonight!
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Shallan definitely suffers at times from Sanderson thinking his dialogue is WAY more clever than it actually is. His banter needs some work. She's also racist as hell, but at least that part seems like an intentional arc. She's solid and I like her overall, but she's not one of my favorites.
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Shallan's banter makes me cringe sometimes but there's a good character beneath that imo. Definitely the weakest main character though.

I wish Oathbringer was part of the Kindle matchbook program. Gotta wait for my hardcover
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Tom Bombadil posted...

How does this compare to Wheel of Time? I'm on the last book of WoT and I'm really grooving on it, but I can't tell how much of that is Sanderson and how much of it is just the satisfaction of everything Jordan did coming to a point. >_>

I'm a huge fan of the Wheel of Time. I was reading along as books came out. I was pretty fed up with Winters Heart and Crossroads of Twilight and how lost the series was in its own meandering pace. New Spring was alright but kind of light. Knife of Dreams was an incredible reinvigoration to the series and I was super optimistic about the series ending. RJ made statements about how he was going to finish everything in one big book. Then Robert Jordan passed away. I was crushed. He had finally gotten back on track with book 11 but that was over now.

I thought it was neat someone was going to finish the series, but I had no idea who Brandon Sanderson was. I thought it probably wouldn't live up to my expectations, especially after book 11. But I was wrong. He nailed it, and right off the bat wth the Gathering Storm he gave us pure excellence.

The Wheel of Time was and is my favourite series, and I'd say the final 3 books are my favourite of the series.

Now, RJ provided the buildup to make this happen, but Brandon really stuck the landing. I really don't think 99% of good writers could have taken all that material and executed it and tied it all together as well as Brandon did. I was so satisfied with how everthing happened except 1 or 2 minor gripes that don't really matter. He deserves complete credit for how good those books are.

One thing Sanderson is known for is the "Brandon Avalanche". He puts a lot of effort into setting up plot lines and foreshadowing events and then the climax at the end of the book has plot twist after plot twist with revelations of new information and payoffs of earlier hints, foreshadowing, and character arcs. It's always extremely satisfying and exhilarating.

A Memory of Light is an entire book of Brandon Avalanching. And that's why he was the perfect author to finish this series. He was born to finish WoT.

After I read the Gathering Storm I knew I had to check this guy out so I picked up The Way of Kings, and the rest is history. It felt like a really natural transition after reading his WoT work. He's my favourite author and I've since read every thing he's ever written. I highly recommend trying him out if you are enjoying his WoT books.

I went straight to Way of Kings, and you can do that too if it looks appealing and you are okay with the length, especially since a new book is about to come out and buzz is high.

But if you want something a little smaller, the other recommended entry point for Sanderson is Mistborn. I'd say the best Brandon Avalanche after A Memory of Light was the final third of the Hero of Ages, which is the last book of thr Mistborn trilogy. Every book has a good Avalanche, but the best ones are paying off an entire series, which obviously the Storm light Archive isn't at yet.

I hope my rambling has added some insight. I'm just a huge fan of both the Wheel of Time and Brandon Sanderson.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Mac Arrowny posted...

When do books go up on Kindle? Curious if it'll be up at midnight PST or EST or something.

I believe it's your local time. There are reports of people changing their location to India and downloading the book.

So like, change your Kindle country? I'll have to see about trying that when I get home I guess.
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Also whoever said Kaladin is not as morally complex as Rand is absurd. He is MILES more complex after one or two books than Rand was after one or two books.

I would say he is the main character. Obviously Book 1 was his book but even in book 2 he felt like the main character to me, even though it was Shallans book and she got so much focus.

Also Shallan was pretty dry in book 1. I didn't hate her but I didn't feel like she was super engaging, and she had waaay too many chapters. Her banter just wasn't entertaining so the over exposure hurt her. She improves a TON in book 2 though. I wouldn't say I love her but I don't hate her. She could still use improving to her banter though.

It's kinda funny because I actually never found Mats banter in Wheel of Time particularly entertaining either until Sanderson started writing him and now I love him. A lot of people hate how Sanderson wrote Mat and Sanderson himself hates hearing about reactions like mine because just like the people that didn't like it, it means he didn't capture Mats voice properly and changed him.

*shrug*

What can ya do!
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AquaArcane posted...

Eerieka posted...

I started reading Edgedancer mostly because of the thing I said earlier about how I'm convinced Lift needs to be naked. I, uhh... wanted to see how Sanderson described her and if he ever talks about her sliding around on clothes.

I'm not sure why you're so concerned about a 12 year old girl wearing clothes. That's just something you have to accept even if it doesn't make sense to you. You can't have a pre-teen girl sliding around all naked like, people would have some things to say about that (both in and outside the books).

I think you're misunderstanding my stance. It isn't like I WANT poor Lift walking around naked in public. It's just the fact that Sanderson has set up this character with a specific ability and I want to believe that he will handle her in a way that satisfies both her world and his. It just doesn't make sense for her to wear a ton of clothes that should be falling off when she becomes slick, or should prevent her from sliding as it's between her skin and the ground. But of course Sanderson is a family-friendly Mormon guy and he's obviously not gonna want his cute little girl-character running around naked either. So I put my faith in the idea that he's gonna handle this well. That he's going to have Lift dressed in clothes that are appropriate to her environment and allow her to slide wherever needed.

Now take what Mac Arrowny said, which I assume is something said in the books though I don't recall where. I CAN accept that the things she touches also becomes frictionless, BUT it needs to be fleshed out more. Why her clothes but not the food she steals? Shouldn't those be slipping out of her hands, just like "the hands of those trying to grab her arm"? And does it imply that there is friction between her body and her clothes? (Let's use pants/trousers/skirts in this situation, because obviously things like shirts can stay on by hanging off shoulders). So let's say Lift becomes awesome while wearing a skirt. Either the skirt also becomes awesome BUT there is still friction between it and her waist so it stays on, or it becomes awesome AND her waist becomes frictionless and the skirt should be slipping off.

The simple solution is just to have her wear some kind of one-piece outfit similar in design to a swimsuit.
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Regardling Edgedancer/Lift, Didn't Darkness end up doing something to get a hold of her using her clothes near the end, or am I thinking of something completely different? I'd hope not since I just read it two weeks ago, but my short term memory is terrible.
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I remember it saying at one point that she chose to make her clothes slick. That implies to me that she needs to that conscious decision to reduce friction on a thing she touches. If she wanted to grab food, she would just not apply the slickness to her hands. It doesn't really bother me.

Darkness got a hold of her by throwing his knife through her shirt/cloak/whatever which pinned her to a wall
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