Board 8 > Oathbringer, Book 3 of The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well, for one, they were always opposed to taking their feelings further, due to the fact that Shallan and Adolin were already engaged. The attraction was there, but it was never allowed to develop into something powerful. This was even more the case for Kaladin, who was constantly trying to forget about Shallan. As for Shallan, her feelings were strongest with the Veil persona, who was suborned into Shallan prime by the end.

And again, Shallan loved Adolin way more than Kaladin. Did you miss that all throughout the last two books?
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Chapter 16

We get some useful information on the process of keeping a Shardblade. Not sure if this was said in previous books, but apparently a person has to keep it with them for a week after the gem flashes. I suppose that's the final step in the process, but the blade still 'belongs' to someone as long as the gem flashes. I am thinking back to the scene where Dalinar killed the mayor of the Rift, then the mayor's young son took the sword. The son bound the sword, but apparently it wasn't done all the way and the boy couldn't have willed it away. I think Sanderson could have explained this a bit clearer. The way it's written here, it reads as if the blade isn't bound to a person until the week is up, but if that were the case, Dalinar wouldn't have had to kill that boy. Course, that was wild Dalinar anyway, so *shrug*. I checked up on the wiki to remember the different kinds of Shardblades since I knew some had different rules and it was useful having a refresher on what sword was where/belonged to who/etc. In any case, I think I'll reread some chapters where people first bound Shardblades.

Dalinar basically asks the exact questions I'm thinking right after I think them, so I don't have a lot to say or speculate here lol. Thanks Dalinar.

Navani doesn't appear, but she's mentioned as being interested in the sewage system of the city. Stuff like that made me always like this woman. She's always leading engineering projects or doing the sort of dirty work that normally occurs behind the scenes in novels. I like her, and I like the role she plays in this series.

Aaand, it appears Dalinar is hiding the Honorblade in an ancient toilet. Welp. I mean, at least no one would think to look there!

Dalinar meets a man from Bridge 13 in the hall and this guy isn't acting suspicious at all. >_> Although I appreciate that he did the fantasy equivalent of the old joke "what time is it?" "Time to get a watch!" Any case, Dalinar gets a watch with two faces: a 'normal' watch and a storm prediction watch. Pretty cool. It can also ease his pain. This is now Chekov's Watch. I will be anticipating the time when Dalinar needs this.

We get a scene with Zahel. Out of all the Sanderson novels I've read, I recall the least amount of information from Warbreaker, so I'll have to check the wiki periodically if more Warbreaker stuff is brought up.

Dalinar is a good guy, respecting the young soldier he sparred with.

Oh good, more political scheming, this time with one of the Iriali. I know that sounds like sarcasm, but I genuinely like political intrigue and learning about other countries, so this should be neat.

Although now Dalinar doesn't want to do the whole politicking thing, and he'd rather spar with Kadesh. Alrighty then.

I hadn't expected a criticism of tradition out of Dalinar, but I support it!

I gotta appreciate Navani here. She is doing and saying exactly what I'd be doing in this situation. "Oh, look, the males are having their dick-measuring contests again."

Um, alright, apparently the magic on Dalinar broke and now he can hear his wife's name again. I hadn't expected THAT to be resolved so soon. I assume it happened when he started glowing with stormlight and spoke his beliefs about the Heralds and Honor. Now I gotta wonder how this is going to affect his relationship with Navani. This has got to be awkward for everyone involved...
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Eerieka posted...

We get some useful information on the process of keeping a Shardblade. Not sure if this was said in previous books, but apparently a person has to keep it with them for a week after the gem flashes. I suppose that's the final step in the process, but the blade still 'belongs' to someone as long as the gem flashes. I am thinking back to the scene where Dalinar killed the mayor of the Rift, then the mayor's young son took the sword. The son bound the sword, but apparently it wasn't done all the way and the boy couldn't have willed it away. I think Sanderson could have explained this a bit clearer. The way it's written here, it reads as if the blade isn't bound to a person until the week is up, but if that were the case, Dalinar wouldn't have had to kill that boy. Course, that was wild Dalinar anyway, so *shrug*. I checked up on the wiki to remember the different kinds of Shardblades since I knew some had different rules and it was useful having a refresher on what sword was where/belonged to who/etc. In any case, I think I'll reread some chapters where people first bound Shardblades.

The week thing has been mentioned before. And no, the boy hadn't bound the blade. He simply raised it against him so Dalinar went 'lol get ded'.

tcaz2 posted...

The week thing has been mentioned before. And no, the boy hadn't bound the blade. He simply raised it against him so Dalinar went 'lol get ded'.

Alright, I wasn't sure. I had been under the impression that the boy was bound to the blade and thus Dalinar had to kill him to acquire it.
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Eerieka posted...

tcaz2 posted...

The week thing has been mentioned before. And no, the boy hadn't bound the blade. He simply raised it against him so Dalinar went 'lol get ded'.

Alright, I wasn't sure. I had been under the impression that the boy was bound to the blade and thus Dalinar had to kill him to acquire it.

Even when bound, Shardblades can be unbound by pressing the gem. That's how they're able to trade them and lend them out.

okay that one wasn't even a spoiler I guess
the spoiler box gods must be appeased though
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Eerieka posted...

tcaz2 posted...

The week thing has been mentioned before. And no, the boy hadn't bound the blade. He simply raised it against him so Dalinar went 'lol get ded'.

Alright, I wasn't sure. I had been under the impression that the boy was bound to the blade and thus Dalinar had to kill him to acquire it.

Boy couldn't be bound. Dad was bound until that night.
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I'm still reading along. I'm into Part 3 now. Everything still seems to be setting up nicely. I loved the feel of sheer wrongness when they got to Kholinar.
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Page 469 in Part 2, not sure what chapter. Just some speculation about the future of the series, nothing really plot related.

Book 3 was originally going to be Szeth's book. Sanderson wrote both Szeth flashbacks and Dalinar flashbacks, and decided to make it Dalinar's book. The original idea for the book had to have been much different because Szeth hasn't even shown up yet. Or was Brandon just going to give us a Szeth flashback book with very little present day Szeth? I always figured Brandon for a stronger planner in series, but Stormlight Archive seems fairly fluid in this regard.

If future flashbacks Eshonai and Szeth do feature prominently in the next 2 books (if Eshonai is even alive or comes back), at least one of our 3 main characters is going to have to take a hit for page count. I'm okay with that because I always like fresh POVs, but I can see that causing problems for a lot of other people. Maybe Dalinar will die before book 5 and make more room for other characters.
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I can see how he would've done it as a Szeth book, but it definitely feels like some things would've had to change.

Post-part one spoilers:

Not sure how an Eshonai flashback book would work, unless she becomes a Fused somehow...?

Minor full book spoilers:

Sanderson also said he was thinking about a second Kaladin flashback book, but considering the Kaladin flashbacks that happened in this one, I'm not sure what he'd actually do for that.
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He probably pushed the timeline around. Act 3 feels like something he could've been planning to end a book with at some point.

Mac Arrowny posted...

Post-part one spoilers:
Not sure how an Eshonai flashback book would work, unless she becomes a Fused somehow...?

Minor full series planning spoilers?
I'm expecting that to happen. Sanderson was talking about Eshonai getting a book during the writing process for Oathbringer. So she either comes back, or his plans drastically changed mid-writing, or he was pulling a fast one on his fans. Personally, I love Eshonai, so if she ends up not getting a book after he said she would, I'm gonna be upset.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

He probably pushed the timeline around. Act 3 feels like something he could've been planning to end a book with at some point.

Mac Arrowny posted...

Post-part one spoilers:
Not sure how an Eshonai flashback book would work, unless she becomes a Fused somehow...?

Minor full series planning spoilers?
I'm expecting that to happen. Sanderson was talking about Eshonai getting a book during the writing process for Oathbringer. So she either comes back, or his plans drastically changed mid-writing, or he was pulling a fast one on his fans. Personally, I love Eshonai, so if she ends up not getting a book after he said she would, I'm gonna be upset.

I was under the impression it would be MC Venli with the flashbacks being focused more on Eshonai than Venli.
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Granted Brandon has said that (Part 2 spoilers) just because a character gets a flashback, doesn't mean they're still alive for that book. But I feel like the flashbacks have to matter to the current book. Would Eshonai flashbacks matter to book 4 if she's dead? Maybe if Venli is a big focus. Otherwise Eshonai hasn't been a big enough character for most readers to care.

Edit: Just saw prof's post and I probably agree with that.
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I think it's confirmed that Szeth and Jasnah are the flashback characters for the next two books?
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Mac Arrowny posted...

I think it's confirmed that Szeth and Jasnah are the flashback characters for the next two books?

Is that new info? For a long time it's been Eshonai then Szeth. Back 5 in no particular order are Jasnah, Renarin, Lift, Shalash, and Taln. Subject to change of course.
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Yeah prof's suggestion could work. Either way, I haven't quite finished the book yet, but it feels to me that Eshonai's contribution to the present storyline probably isn't done.
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Chapter 17

Kal hanging out with the parshmen. Hopefully we'll get to see that not all parshmen are evil town-destroying monsters

He mentions a yellow-white spren that appeared in his last chapter. I hadn't paid much attention to it the first time, but since it's being mentioned again, I think this is Sanderson's way of hitting me on the head and saying "hey! This is gonna be important!" So yeah, duly noted. Yellow-white ribbon of light that may be a spren.

Khen is tsun, but I wouldn't be surprised if she turns dere later.

The little parshendi girl plays with some rockbuds and when she catches on, she summons joyspren. I just wanna take a moment to talk about spren, namely the smaller/weaker/emotion-based ones. As we know, it takes a certain degree of 'feeling' for a spren to materialize. Do we know if the parshmen ever summoned spren when they were in dull/slave form? Do prey animals summon fearspren or anticipationspren when they know a predator is nearby? The humans on Roshar who enslaved the parshmen might categorize sapient life forms based on an ability to summon spren, so the parshmen being the equivalent of animals may stem from that.

Also, this is totally unrelated to the chapter, but I think if I were a cruel monarch on Roshar, I would devise a series of punishments for criminals that involved doing something to them until they summoned a certain amount of spren i.e. publicly shaming them until a shamespren appears, torture until a certain number of painspren appear, etc.

The male, daddy-parshman is adorable and I can tell he cares for his daughter so much. Really hope nothing bad happens to them. If this were any other book, I'd say that they're doomed, but Sanderson does give happy endings sometimes, so who knows?

Syl confirms that the other spren hanging out is a higher intelligence than the average spren. Curiouser and curiouser.

Syl says when discussing the parshmen: "They've been healed, Connection refounded, Identity restored." The fact that she capitalizes these words makes me think this will relate to the similar ideas from the Mistborn novels. Same concepts, different methods.

Kaladin gives the parshmen some advice and I suspect they want to follow it, but at the same time they have a sort of pride now that they're free. They don't want to take orders from humans, even if it's well-intentioned advice.

After the scene with the parsh-girl, Kal gives more advice to the parshmen and this time they are more keen to listen. They are reasonably cautious, but hey, it's a step in the right direction! Maybe Kal will get a cute parshwoman waifu at the end of all this in the form of Khen or the daughter. Or they'll all die horribly. It could go either way and I wouldn't be surprised.
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Chapter 111

The Stormfather says Dalinar has met Cultivation but she's not the Nightwatcher. Did I miss it and we know who she is?
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I don't think so.
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Finished the book today. That ending was amazing. Some thoughts...pretty much all over the place. Major spoilers


I was waiting the entire book for Adolin to awaken his blade but it never came. Although, he definitely seems close now. The blade came in less than ten heartbeats when he needed it. I wonder if Dalinar is also close to awakening Oathbringer? I'm not sure what it shining at the end there is meant to signify. Otherwise, I'm really happy with Adolin. The Adolin/Shallan pairing feels right, and he finally came clean to his father and admitted he has no desire to rule.

Speaking of Dalinar, holy crap. I expected him to speak the next ideal by the end, but the result was still surprising. Bondsmiths appear to be something special, and Honor appears to have enhanced the Stormfather during his final days. Even the Stormfather was shocked. Imprisoning the Thrill was something special. I wonder about Dawnshards. We've only heard a few references to them so far, with one mentioning that they could bind any being. Could that be related to this Unmade's imprisonment, or possibly Jezrien's true death? I'm eager for more on this.

We didn't get to see much of Taln, but I loved learning the details of the Oathpact. It is hard not to like this guy. The pure joy he feels after learning how long it has been is something special. Not sure how I feel about Nale/Darkness switching sides with his Skybreakers after working so hard to prevent the Desolation's return. I guess with Honor's death, he sees Odium's rule as the inevitable new law. Still, I wonder if he can be swayed.

Szeth is starting to grow on me. I'm skeptical of Dalinar allowing him to "cleanse" the Shin, but he will likely be important in winning their support. Nightblood sure does consume a TON of stormlight. But that's to be expected from it. Nightblood's cut is certainly more powerful than a Shardblades. I'm curious if Nightblood can inflict a true death on the fused.

Azure definitely appears to be Vivenna and it is nice to see her matured. She's after Nightblood. Not too surprising. I'm looking forward to reading more on her and Zahel/Vasher and just how Nightblood landed in Nale's hands.

After waiting so long for Elhokar to become Radiant, he's killed right as he is saying the words. So rude. But this opens the door to Queen Regent Jasnah which should be good.

Renarin has bonded a corrupted spren, and Venli has become Radiant. Honor had presumably forbade the surges to the Listeners in the past. I wonder where this will lead. Taravangian's meeting with Odium hints at Renarin being Odium's champion rather than Dalinar. I hope not. Taravangian has given up so much to Odium...he never really had a chance.

I'm not sure if I entirely buy the reason for the Recreance. The humans not being native to Roshar does make sense. They certainly feel alien in this world, and it has been hinted before that the Stormfather and Honor belonged to the Listeners before they betrayed them for the humans. I assume that humans originated from the third planet in the Roshar system which now is referred to as the Tranquiline Halls.

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I just finished Chapter 7 guys try to keep up
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Yankees posted...

Finished the book today. That ending was amazing. Some thoughts...pretty much all over the place. Major spoilers

We didn't get to see much of Taln, but I loved learning the details of the Oathpact. It is hard not to like this guy. The pure joy he feels after learning how long it has been is something special.

Taln's utter joy there is definitely my favorite thing Sanderson has written it's just so good.
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One thing I was a bit confused about with the Bondsmiths. Apparently there can only ever be three at once, and if I got what they were saying right, that's because there are only three Spren who can give a person Bondsmith powers - the Stormfather, the Sibling, and the Nightwatcher. Plus, it seemed like the Stormfather was saying he's never been bonded before, so there had actually never been more than two at a time in the past...?

Nightblood actually seems more useful here than in Warbreaker, since Breaths were consumable but Stormlight is renewable.

When Dalinor was talking to the Nightwatcher, it seemed like she had Nightblood in her possession for whatever reason. I wonder if Zahel made a deal with her? And if Nale made a deal to get it from her?

They made it clear that they weren't picking a regent, but an actual ruler, since regent wouldn't be a strong enough position in these troubled times. Jasnah is the queen.

I thought that Taravangian's meeting was implying that Renarin could be a secret weapon against Odium, not his champion.

The first reason for the Recreance doesn't make sense. The second reason (that Honor was losing his mind and told the Radiants they would destroy the world if they continued Surgebinding) is a bit more persuasive.

One thing I wonder is where Honor came from. Cultivation was definitely on Roshar from the start, and Odium was on Braize (the planet the humans came from), but where was Honor?
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AquaArcane posted...

I just finished Chapter 7 guys try to keep up

Lol oh man, and I thought I was the slowpoke here :P

I'm just messing with you. I need almost total silence in order to concentrate on reading, and I live in a downtown apartment... with the freeway a block away... and an upstairs neighbor who has a three year old that likes to jump off the furniture. In fact he's doing it right now and I'm about to go crazy, god damn it.

I've read the first few pages of chapter 18, but not had much to comment on.
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Pfft, it took me over a year to read Way of Kings, trust me I know I'm slow lol
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@Mac_Arrowny


The Stormfather has been bonded before, but never been bonded in his current state. During Honor's last days, he made changes to the Stormfather like the ability to create new honor spren. Presumably, he has made other changes as well that the Stormfather doesn't understand which explains his shock as what Dalinar is capable of. I believe he even says that the others he bonded with could not do this. One thing I wonder about is that breaking the bonds kills the spren, but the Stormfather and Nightwatcher are still around. We also have been told that at the time of the Recreance, there was only one Bondsmith. More Bondsmiths may have been able to keep the Knights united in some sense. I wonder what had become of that one Bondsmith. I assume that he was bonded with the third and that the betrayal makes the Stormfather refuse talking about that spren.

What hint was there that Nightwatcher had Nightblood? I think I missed it. Stormlight makes him more useful here for sure.

You could be right on Jasnah. I thought regent with Elhokar's son being alive.

Renarin as a weapon against him does make sense now that you mention it. I'll reread that section.

How do we know that Honor wasn't on Roshar from the start? I assume that Cultivation and Honor predated Odium on Roshar and that the listeners once revered Honor and felt he had spurn them for the humans, and in doing so turned to Odium.

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I think it is hard to say that the humans came from Braize either. Definitely possible, but do we know enough to discount the third planet, Ashyn? We don't know much about this planet expect that there was a global cataclysm at some point, and we've been told that humans ruined their old world. That might be a fit. I don't think we can take Odium being bound to Braize as a guarantee that humans originated there yet.


Another dangling thread that interests me...

We know that Aimia has long been destroyed. By an Unmade possibly. But the Aimians still seem to be guarding something there - maybe the unmade responsible for its destruction is imprisoned there. We've met only Arclo and Axies so far, but I think I remember an odd cremling in this book hinting at the prescience of another Dysian Aimian like Arclo. Do the Natam people fit into the picture somehow? Common heritage with the blue skin? That interlude hints at their return.

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In the Dalinar flashback, the Nightwatcher offers him a jet-black shardblade. It could technically be something else, but I assume it's Nightblood.

http://puu.sh/yryFF/660e64af79.png

We don't know that Honor wasn't on Roshar. I just wasn't sure about it. I might've missed something.

Oh, whoops, might've been misremembering the names. Ashyn is probably right.

I think there was some sort of hint about something lurking in Aimia, but I can't remember what.
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I need to reread the Nightwatcher chapter. I assume a jet black shardblade would be Nightblood also.

Thanks, I guess I skimmed over the mention of the child. Queen Jasnah it is.

I'm pretty sure the Brandon has even mentioned that Cultivation and Honor were on Roshar first, and I think everything so far supports that. Let me know if you find a hint otherwise.

Braize is Damnation where the fused and heralds return to. And where Odium resides. I don't think Ashyn has really come up at all in the Stormlight Archive yet other than Krhiss' preface to Edgedancer where it is mentioned to have few humans and a cataclysmic event in the past.

I think all we know about Amia is that it was destroyed somewhat recently - after the last desolation at least. Supposedly by an Unmade that has not been seen since. We see the Aimians still protecting the land so maybe the Unmade is still there. There's probably multiple secrets to be found there, but I'll bet on the Unmade for now.

I reread Taravangian's chapter. I agree that Renarin is hinted as an ace in the hole against Odium. Moash appears like he's being groomed to play the role of champion right now.

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Chapter 18

Pattern has suddenly developed opinions. Next thing we know, he'll be shitposting on the internet.

Kinda disappointed to hear that Navani had a city layout plan and no one fucking listened. Like when playing Tropico, you can plan streets and buildings and such, but homeless or poor people will still build their shacks in the way. Course, that's Tropico and if you want to be an evil dictator, you can... I don't see Navani channeling the evil aspects of El Presidente any time soon.

Shallan wonders why competitors open up shops next to one another. Ask McDonalds/Burger King/Jack in the Box/Carl's Jr.-Hardees. It's all game theory. Actually, game theory might be a good thing for Shallan to learn...

She then brings up the the well that never diminished and I know significantly less of geology so I won't make any suggestions to this. Hell, could be some aquatic spren making it happen.

Poor darkeyes worried about being made into slaves. Can't wait for the glorious darkeyed revolution.

And already Shallan is making a fool of herself by claiming she's done this a hundred times even though she can't recognize poor-people liquor. Ya know girl, speaking of things you don't know is one of the Ten Fools!

Jesus, now Shallan is going to die of alcohol poisoning. She'll she alespren before this is over.

Bouncer is apparently flirting with Shallan, though nothing he's said really comes off as flirty, just social. Which I guess in this situation, social IS flirty. Hell, I wouldn't know. I don't really 'do' the bar scene. \_()_/

I wonder if Shallan is able to keep up her Veil appearance if she gets drunk. Well, never mind, because stormlight can cure drunkeness. I think we knew that already from previous books, but it was a nice reminder.

Shallan is worried that her brothers might be dead, but fuck Balat, man. Anyone who tortures animals can fuck right the hell off imo.

At the next bar, she cuts in line and she's real lucky she didn't get clocked immediately. The bartender stopped her from going too far... good man. Now Shallan's off to talk to some 'thugs'. Let's see what kind of fool she makes of herself now!

Dang Shallan u crazy. Lol, then a few sentences later the Horneater says the same thing. He specifically says "you're ana'kai crazy" so I'm going to presume ana'kai means 'absolutely fucking batshit'

Apparently people named Ned can't catch a break in any work of fiction.

Speaking of names, I wonder if Ur's name is like Rock in that it's actually a shortened form of something obscenely long. I know Rock said his dad named him after a poem, but I wonder if other Horneaters do the same.

WHAT? NED KILLED REM? NOT REM! D: rip best waifu ;_;

Alright, so it seems whenever one person is killed, another person pops up dead in the same way. This doesn't look like a person's doing. Some sort of magic at work. Maybe Urithiru is a 'mirror' in a way. One thing happens somewhere, the same thing happens elsewhere. Maybe the work of spren or some reflection from another realm. Murder happens -> people become cognizant of it -> cognitive realm makes it happen again in the same way. Just some ideas that sprung to mind. We'll see where it goes.
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Eerieka posted...

WHAT? NED KILLED REM? NOT REM! D: rip best waifu ;_;

Emilia is better

Mac Arrowny posted...

One thing that kind of gets me is that Stormlight doesn't cure Kaladin's depression. We know it can cure brain damage, so is Sanderson depression is an entirely mental problem with no physical component? Same with various characters' addictions.

This is a very weird view on depression

Kaladin isn't clinically depressed from the chemical imbalance in his brain

Kaladin is disillusioned from lots of bad things happening in his life. He's reluctant to trust or believe in things because of those seriously really bad things and some bad things that continue to happen.

Kaladin actually does get happy all the time from little things please him, whether its hanging out with Bridge Four, chatting with Shallan or Adolin, finding his parents alive, or just with Syl being Syl. There's nothing wrong with him. He's just a man who experiences emotion, and he's experienced a lot of hardship.

Stormlight washing that sadness away would be... so wrong. It would just make him numb to the bad experiences of his life. Should it still other negative emotions like anger or hatred too?

Kaladin would be little better off than Teft if Stormlight worked that way.
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Series prediction based on the first and second Interludes with ~~~~Venli~~~~

Like others have said, I really doubt Eshonai's contribution to the present is finished. She's likely getting a flashback book, but I strongly doubt she won't contribute to the present. I'm about 80% sure she's coming back, and it's because of the light Venli saw under her corpse. It's not the first time a book flashback character died and came back somehow, so she might pull it off with whatever that light is. If she doesn't get a full resurrection somehow, then I think she'll come back as a spren to guide Venli, like how the voidbringers are. I doubt she'll possess anyone but she can follow Venli around and guide her like a Radiant's spren.

Though personally I hope she makes a full comeback. I like Eshonai, and I don't really like Venli. I'd prefer Eshonai big time.
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Finished the book! Enjoyed it about as much as WoR, though the two are great in different ways. Really looking forward to seeing where things go from here. SPOILERS BELOW

So I was totally wrong about Eshonai being the spren tailing Venli. Misdirected again by Sanderson. What sticks out to me is the lore rollercoaster that the parshman/listener/singer backstory has been across these three books, despite their almost total lack of agency. Even the sympathetic listeners in this book are mainly prodded around by the humans. That said, it's kinda suspicious that the "good" listeners have been dying in droves while it's also established that their souls don't move on and can come back as Fused. I'm hoping they begin to take an active role in events in the next book.

Speaking of which, people seem to be down on the twist that the original Voidbringers were humans, but I think it fits well into the theming of ambiguity. It needs the context of humanity being refugees from destroying a world, but I think either twist on its own is a lot weaker out of context. Especially since the Recreance was centuries after the final desolations, which were seemingly over, I can buy the Knights dissolving over it.

The whole last act was spectacular. Jasnah being able to cut loose was the best part, followed by Renarin getting to do something finally. If I wasn't sold on Lift before, I am now. She's much better bouncing off of actual important characters as dedicated comic relief, rather than being on her own and only having Wyndle as a good foil. "Awesomeness" is still lame though.

But I think my favorite part of the book was the Bridge Four POVs. Lopen cracks me up and I can't wait to find out all their tragic backstories just in time for them to die horribly or something.
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CoolCly posted...

This is a very weird view on depression

Kaladin isn't clinically depressed from the chemical imbalance in his brain

Also I gotta disagree with this. Kaladin certainly has reasons for his sadness, but the way it's described goes beyond normal fictional angst and is very much in line with some forms of depression. There's a good amount of possible reasons it can't be "healed" (we barely understand how brain chemistry works in the first place and I doubt Roshar has a better grasp on it) but just because he can also be happy doesn't mean he isn't depressed. That's a major factor in depression.
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There are certainly forms of depression he lines up with but they are emotional problems you would deal with in therapy, not medical problems you would treat by "curing" it.

Syl is basically his therapist.
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Started part 3. Can someone remind me was Eshonai a Fused or just regular stormform? I want to say stormform but I remember it being like the spren was controlling her. Venli made it sound like youre still yourself in all forms except Fused.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Started part 3. Can someone remind me was Eshonai a Fused or just regular stormform? I want to say stormform but I remember it being like the spren was controlling her. Venli made it sound like youre still yourself in all forms except Fused.

Eshonai took on stormform. It pretty clearly did have a big impact on their actions in WoR -
Eshonai spit on Dalinar's offer of peace right after adopting the form. Eshonai remarked in WoR that she was surprised at the level of control Venli had over stormform, and suspected that she adopted the form in secret. With Fused, you are completely taken over.
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I forget the details but I distinctly remember Eshonai's mind railing helplessly against the spren controlling her body. It wasn't Eshonai doing anything after the major personality shift. I can't remember if it was just stormform or not though.
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The whole idea was that Eshonai was to be the first to take on stormform to determine if it was safe for the rest of them to try. She was pretty helpless to control herself in that form, but not in the same way that Fused are. There's nothing left for them
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So I just got to the chapter with Dalinar, Evi, and the Rift.

Maybe I am just a cynical bastard but...

...Dalinar as completely justified? He came and offered Tanalan a chance to stand down. Tanalan proceeded to betray Dalinar, killing most of his elites and almost killing him in brutal, cowardly fashion.

Like if you're a leader and you pull something like that against the motherfucking Blackthorn, you are basically sacrificing your people if things don't work out.

I didn't mind at all the fact that he set the Rift on fire. Tanalan's fault. I know you're supposed to view the chapter as "Oh god Dalinar no please stop!" but I was rooting for him to burn them all. Maybe I'm just sadistic.

Also, Sanderson doesn't really develop Evi enough for me to care all that much about what happens to her. I feel for Dalinar and all but at the same time it was just... she was rushed, I think.
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Chapter 19

Dalinar flashback. Gonna see more of him being a jerk, I suppose. But hey, now that we know his wife's name, we might get some of her!

Gavilar wants some mood lighting, and Dalinar is ruining said mood. He just doesn't 'get' romance yet.

They're talking to an Iriali guy name Toh, which is Hot spelled backwards so I'm going to assume this guy is the opposite of hot. I dunno, the way he's described, he might be handsome. And I'm also guessing this will arrange Dalinar's marriage to Evi.

Gavilar explains that all ten highprinces trace their lineage back to the Sunmaker. For those who care about things like lineage and honor, I reckon this means any highprince could claim the throne. And yeah... that kingdom only lasted during his reign, then splintered. Really gives ya hope for your own kingdom, eh, Gavi?

I like how no one seems to give a fuck that Dalinar left the table and walked out into the storm. I imagine a servant asking "should we bring him back?" and the reply being "no, he's drunk, and he can't fuck up diplomatic talks if he stays out there."

Now the dumbass uses his Shardblade to break a perfectly good lock to ask a soldier where his fucking knife is.

Just... I can't. Everything Dalinar does is so embarrassing. I can appreciate these scenes because it makes us appreciate how far he's come as a character, but damn. To be fair, I'd probably do the same thing he did if I asked a servant for help and they had the audacity to tell me that I did their signal wrong. No, if you are MY servant, you come to MY signal.

Dalinar says that no one can insult his biceps. He would refer them to a physician to get their eyes checked. Sadeas says that no one on Roshar could say that with a straight face. I now want to see Effie from Fire Emblem Fates worldhop to Roshar, because she would say it in monotone AND a straight face.

Seems the Sunmaker fell for the same joke that Genghis Khan did. Too much conquest, too many kids to split the empire upon death.

Dalinar's got a hardon for blondes, it would appear.

Well, regardless of what a buffoon he is diplomatically, he at least can spot a knife about to murder his brother. If he were a CK2 character, his Diplomacy, Stewardship, and Learning would be around 1 while his Intrigue would be around 10 and his Martial nearing 20.

Shockspren, huh? I know Dalinar says those are rare, but I feel like we've had moments more shocking than this without them. Also, I imagine in future-Roshar where they have the internet, images of spren are their equivalent of emoji. Typical Rosharian twitter: "oh kelek! did n1 else see the remake of nightwatcher 6? it was 2 storming spooky 4 me :fearspren: :shockspren:"

I promise I will never do that again.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

So I just got to the chapter with Dalinar, Evi, and the Rift.

Maybe I am just a cynical bastard but...

...Dalinar as completely justified? He came and offered Tanalan a chance to stand down. Tanalan proceeded to betray Dalinar, killing most of his elites and almost killing him in brutal, cowardly fashion.

Like if you're a leader and you pull something like that against the motherfucking Blackthorn, you are basically sacrificing your people if things don't work out.

I didn't mind at all the fact that he set the Rift on fire. Tanalan's fault. I know you're supposed to view the chapter as "Oh god Dalinar no please stop!" but I was rooting for him to burn them all. Maybe I'm just sadistic.

Also, Sanderson doesn't really develop Evi enough for me to care all that much about what happens to her. I feel for Dalinar and all but at the same time it was just... she was rushed, I think.

Yeah it's definitely fucked up to think that way

The normal response is "Tanalan is a fucking idiot, of *course* this was going to cause the Blackthorn to massacre your people and kill your children" not "Hell yeah Dalinar, burn those fucking kids"
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ExThaNemesis posted...

...Dalinar as completely justified? He came and offered Tanalan a chance to stand down. Tanalan proceeded to betray Dalinar, killing most of his elites and almost killing him in brutal, cowardly fashion.

You say this, but dropping oil on the town from above to watch it burn instead of taking it is even more brutal and pretty cowardly too. None of the civilians did anything wrong so why should they share Tanalan's grave? Its Dalinar's fault Tanalan is even rebelling in the first place. Not to mention, he doesn't even seem to be aware he gave the order to raze the entire town. It doesn't even fit with his reputation as the Blackthorn, as by his accounts he cut the pillaging out of his army pretty early on. So it's just preposterous overkill and definitely fucked up.

Evi could have used a little more development bit the whole idea is that Dalinar is ignoring her and his kids as much as he can while he fights. Considering that I think it was good enough. You can also see her influence on Adolin's and Renarin's personality quirks once it's established she's the one raising them.
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Well it's not like I'm completely going Yeah, Dalinar burn those innocents!

But I am saying, he had every right to make Tanalan and his people pay for the betrayal like that.

Anyway, I am absolutely loving everything going on in Kholinar up to this point. Shallan's identity crisis. The Cult of Moments. Kaladin's joining the Wall Guard. I love everything about it. Makes anything going on back at Urithiru seem kind of bland.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Well it's not like I'm completely going Yeah, Dalinar burn those innocents!

But I am saying, he had every right to make Tanalan and his people pay for the betrayal like that.

You said you were rooting for him! But either way by your same sentiment, Tanalan has every right to try to assassinate Dalinar. It's all just petty revenge. Especially for Dalinar, who is just salty he fell for the rockslide trick twice.

But seriously, Dalinar and Sadeas both knew that Gavilar wouldn't want this, and acted quickly so that he couldn't find out and make any orders. They then came up with a cover story to make it look better after the fact. They did this because they knew full well that the king would just disavow their actions and they would face no consequenes. None of these are things you do if you are morally justified!
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I agree that Evi was under developed. I just didn't really care about her that much.
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Damn, so I got to the end of Part 3... The fall of Kholinar.

I have to say, I've disliked Elhokar through the whole series and I think it's cruel that Brandon killed him just as he was finally starting to turn himself around. Again, I felt that scene solely through its effect on Kaladin. This poor dude just can't escape the pain. And he is never going to learn... you can't save everyone.

I'm glad Moash was able to get his vengeance at least.
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Bump. Been reading Warbreaker now since it seems like it's better late than never at this point. It's nothing like I was expecting!
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Finished it a couple days ago. Spoilers for both Oathbringer and Mistborn stuff.

Not sure what was going on at the end there with Hoid during the Epilogue. The letters to him at the beginning of chapters were interesting. The one from Sazed was obvious and he seems interested in helping Hoid, though I don't know what he's doing.

Little disappointed that Kaladin didn't say the 4th Ideal. I enjoy him pulling out these power ups late and saving the day. Dalinar getting that late moment was nice at least.

Elhokar's death was the sad point of the book for me. Not sure how I feel about still. It got the reaction out of me that it obviously wanted, but I think I'd rather him survive and fully complete his change. I'm ok with him dying, but I think it was too early. I hate it when characters get saved from near death only to die not too long after.

I enjoyed Shallan a lot more this book. I hated her in previous books due to Sanderson's whole "look how clever and witty she is! You can tell she is because other characters won't go two seconds without reminding you despite her clever comments being something a 5 year old could come up with", but they toned her down and I find her enjoyable now.

Jasnah on the other hand I'm just not enjoying. I find it hard to enjoy those "too smart for their own good" characters.
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Wedge Antilles posted...

Not sure what was going on at the end there with Hoid during the Epilogue.

Seemed to be entirely just to set him up as bonding a Cryptic. I guess look forward to Hoid becoming whoever he wants with Lightweaving in future books.
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