Board 8 > Oathbringer, Book 3 of The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson

(+) Yeah! (+)

Chapter 20

Kaladin is getting future harem member Khen to warm up to him by bandaging her wounds.

I don't recall what the deal is with parshmen names. I had to doublecheck on the wiki to remember what the deal was with Shen/Rlain. I forgot that Kaladin had named him Shen, then later the parshman said his name was Rlain. But how do they get names? Do they name themselves? Do their masters choose their name?

In any case, this man's name is Sah, which is Has backwards. Don't ask why I'm doing the whole 'hurr backwards name thing.' It's just something I do everytime I meet a character in any work of fiction with a weird name.

Apparently the yellow spren is quite bossy. And the parshmen can hear distant singing. I wonder if that's just their instincts. Some aspect of the Parshendi whereby they hear music internally. Or telepathically to their fellows, and they are being guided to the bigger Parshendi group.

Poor Kaladin just wants everyone to be happy. Idealism is nice, but it's not going to happen. Sah is right in this regard: the Alethi are gonna want their slaves back. Lighteyes want cheap labor. Darkeyes don't want their nahn rank to drop and be enslaved in their place.

Still waiting on the proletariat revolt, which may be happening in Kholinar. Can't wait to see the queen's head on a pike!

Syl predicts the highstorm coming. Let's see how Kaladin helps them out of this mess. Or if their minds get warped again.
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Chapter 21

Oh boy, more Shallan and Adolin. Let's see how embarrassing they get this time. Hey, Adolin learned to make it very clear that he's the one knocking. Good.

Jesus Christ, I never thought I would see a character say 'blarg' in this context in a work of fiction.

Shallan, Adolin has no grounds to accuse you of PMSing because you are ALWAYS PMSing.

I was about to bring up the fact that she's acting like she's hungover, but she shouldn't be hungover if she can just zap the alcohol in her system away. But then she says that she must have not had enough stormlight to cure it. You win this time, Sanderson. See, THIS is the kind of "small detail" thing that authors can do to win me over. Small things that other people may not think about or notice, but I'm pleased it got answered.

I can't even be mad at this conversion about her cramps hurting, then Pattern remind her she's not allowed to mate. First off, major sympathy to Shallan. My cramps were so bad that I had to miss days of work, and one time got hospitalized because of them. Thankfully modern medicine has made it bearable. Second of all, it looks like stormlight is curing 'unnatural' pains i.e. the "poison" in her body or the stab wound. But a cramp is just her body doing what it should be doing.

Oh Shallan, you claim that last night was about "psychology" yet the idea of batting your eyes at Adolin to get what you want baffles you? You'll get it, girl. You're on your way there already, judging by you looking at his hair earlier.

Ha, Adolin with the puns. I admit I kinda liked that one... "relationships requiring investment."

"When Dalinar had commanded her to practice with her powers, he probably hadn't meant practicing how to avoid getting drunk." Actually, knowing what we know about Dalinar (wasn't he drunk when Gavilar died?), that might be EXACTLY what he wants from you!

These two motherfuckers, I swear. I think they'll be fun together once they've gotten to know each other more. That may be a book away, though.

Next scene we get Sebarial and Palona (still the best girl because of her one line about Sadeas) getting a massage. Shallan whines a bit, and Sebarial puts it to her straight. Ya know, Shallan, he has a point. Why don't you start using your powers to make your own money?

I wonder where safehands fall on the tier of fetishes. Is getting a handy from a woman's safehand considered more or less degenerate than, say, a bj? Will future-Roshar feature internet porn sites dedicated to safehands? "You won't BELIEVE what this woman can do with BOTH her hand! Click here!"

Adolin discusses how this hallway is barricaded, and thus Sanderson has set up Chekov's Barricade. I expect a fight to happen here someday.

I don't remember Vathah at all, and only remember Gaz by name. Welp.

Adolin explained to Shallan the purpose of the honor guards and, well, this is something that has never sat well with me in any work of fiction. People doing nothing just to give glory to another person. I could see it being a thing in a setting where you have excess people. But like... there is work to be done in this tower! People were just bitching about the parshmen running away. Do something useful! I have a feeling Shallan will emerge to my line of thinking, so I won't belabor the point now.

The Sadeas piece of the tower is full of 'gangs' as Shallan called them. Well, I guess this is who the battle in Chekov's Barricade will be against.

Oh good, ghostbloods. They heard the memo that someone was using their name and now they've come to investigate. Shallan can either use this to her advantage or fuck it up royally. Some on girl, don't disappoint me now. You've been doing good so far!
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Small Bottle chapter had me tearing up.
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Book beated.

That was great.

WoR > OB > WoK right now.

Fuck Moash. What a douchenozzle.
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I kept expecting Moash to go somewhere positive. Even after he killed Elkohar. But nope.
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I thought Moash's story might go somewhere positive until he killed Elhokar. It was disappointing to see. He's basically the perfect foil for Kaladin. Kaladin internalizes a lot of his blame;
Moash blames everything but himself.

Now that I think some more about about the story with the girl and the wall, I think it might be a reference to Shinovar. Humans were likely granted Shinovar when welcomed to Roshar and forbidden from expanding eastwards past the mountain range buffering them from the storms.

The Shin consider stone sacred and not to be tread upon. I think this fits with the lack of soil east of the mountains and abundance of stone. The Shin are the remnants of the people that kept to the land the humans were allowed. What do you all think?

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Still reading, getting closer to end. On page 970 or so.

Syl is best girl

I thought that was already confirmed in the book, Yankees.
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Murphiroth posted...

Book beated.

That was great.

WoR > OB > WoK right now.

Fuck Moash. What a douchenozzle.

Agreed with the ranking. I felt that way throughout the whole book.

My only real complaint was something I realized at the end. There were a lot of POV characters which I loved, but many of them could have benefited from more page time throughout the book. Maybe cut some of the repetitive Shallan multiple personality stuff, and give Renarin, Szeth, and some others more development throughout the book.

I also have no problem with Moash. His goal was always to kill Elhokar and I cant blame him for that.
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Alright, I've started putting my stuff on a Google Doc. Anyone can edit if you want to add your thoughts as well. If you've gone ahead of me (not a difficult feat >_>) just put what chapter/part you're talking about and try to keep it in order. Also, if anyone else adds their thoughts, I'll change the title. I'm just calling it "Kira reads Oathbringer" until I know someone else wants to add theirs.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EJpHZgLdLcsF3gODKwknXqJwsG5EFxR8bF4VVBhqrfI/edit?usp=sharing

Ch 22:

Mraize is described as having scars all over his face and I once again had to stop and remind myself that this is not the same work of fiction as the previous one I read. In The Second Apocalypse series, there's a race of people who scar themselves when they make a kill, so a heavily scarred man would be a renowned warrior. In that book though, I think they start scarring the arms and the face is nearly last. Anyway, I'm sure Mraize has a story behind all those scars.

Oh hey look, Sanderson is addressing my chicken curiosity from before. Point for him. I like that Shallan thinks all birds are chickens, too. It's a cute quirk for someone who has never seen a non-chicken avian. I'm guessing Mraize's bird is a parrot (or a fantasy-bird that's based on a parrot) and I am now picturing him as a pirate... I hope the parrot talks.

Oh man and he has a halberd. Top-tier weapon imo, and immediate respect to anyone who uses one.

Ialai seems to know that Adolin murdered her husband. I don't know how she knows, but considering how poorly Adolin has hid it when he's on-screen (on-page?) I wouldn't be surprised if he's said or done other incriminating things off-page, and Ialai is no fool. If anyone can figure it out, it's her or Palona (I like to believe that Palona is super smart and crafty, we just haven't seen her full power yet. >_>) Question is, did Shallan just now figure it out? It's a little vague.

Alright, props to Adolin for this one. He did deflect suspicion away from his father and did it in such a way as to not also incriminate himself and he managed to insult Ialai. Good job.

Ialai basically tells Shallan to fetch the goddamn TEA. Yeeeeah, if I were Shallan, I'd be awfully tempted to say 'this is where you stop treating me like shit. I'm a fucking Knight Radiant.' In this instance, her modesty might have kept her from making the grave mistake I'd have made.

Sanderson keeps describing the colors of the strata on the wall, and I'm starting to feel like I should have been paying better attention to what was where. Like, someday it's going to be revealed that it was color coded for our convenience all along, we just were too dumb to notice.

I don't recall the full extent of Shallan's family's meddling in the Ghostbloods. Was it implied/directly stated in the last book that Helaran was a member of the Ghostbloods? I'd forgotten all of Shallan's brothers except for the animal-torturer. Like, I knew she had more brothers, I just couldn't remember what the deal with them was. Actually, I recall now that Balat had mentioned that he went from "something" Balat to Nan Balat when his brother died/disappeared, as its some sort of numbering scheme.

Ialai "grabbed her chair with white-knuckled hands". But alas, we shouldn't be able to see one of those hands.

Oh, Amaram, everyone hates you. I think it would be hilarious if you somehow survived his whole series without dying, but I just don't think it's gonna happen.

I forgot that Dalinar wanted to use Amaram to refound the Knights Radiant. Great fucking idea. Having him refound the group which currently consists of two members who hate his guts.

Highstorm coming. Everyone get your dun spheres out! Time to recharge the batteries.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

I thought that was already confirmed in the book, Yankees.

I thought it was implied but not stated. But I may be wrong there.
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Ch 23

Is it just me, or do these chapters feel shorter than in previous books?

Kaladin wants to get all his parshmen buddies in a bunker for the storm. This will either end well and just serve to explain how they hunkered down during the storm. Or it will end horribly with either a) the parshmen transforming into something vicious, b) this lighteyes guy walks in at the wrong time to check in on them and the parshmen kill him to avoid him telling the authorities, or c) he tells the authorities ahead of time and the parshmen get trapped, which will of course lead to a and b both happening.

Caravans probably got murdered and their goods stolen by hungry parshmen. rip

Oh wait, the Everstorm already came through and no one transformed. They just hid in the mine. Alright. Good to know that the Everstorm doesn't fuck up the parshmen every time it comes through. Unless they were deep enough that it didn't affect them.

Man, Kaladin is as bad as Adolin about not incriminating himself. Because nothing raises red flags faster than saying that this guy totally really absolutely CAN'T watch the army come in!

The group has been getting bigger with more parshmen groups joining. That's a double edged sword, and though Kaladin hasn't said it, I know he's thinking it. There's security in numbers, but he himself said in a previous chapter that big groups are easier to spot.

The yellow spren says that the parshmen are 'a month old' so apparently she judges ages based on how long they've been sapient. And she's only a month old, so no thinking naughty thoughts about her, Kaladin!

Man, only a month old and this spren has a mouth on her. Where'd she learn this mischief?
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I'm 80% through the book. I imagine I'm gonna finish it in a long sitting at some point this weekend.
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I'm like 20 pages from the end but had to take a break because I just did like 250 pages in one sitting <_<

So basically just need to read the 'epilogue' more or less.

Done!

Mmmm I think the book was overall better than Way of Kings but definitely not as good as Words of Radiance.

I think my biggest issue with it was the pacing. It was fine for the first bit and during the Kholinar stuff, but everything else just felt like it plodded. There was just huge swathes of the book after the first couple hundred pages where almost nothing happened, up until they left for Kholinar. The climax/ending stuff was also kinda weird feeling.

Also biggest disappointment of all time award goes to Taravangian. After being built up for two books and seeming like a really impressive antagonist he fell flat on his face in this book and delivered on absolutely zero of his build up.

Writing out my thoughts as I go has been incredibly helpful to myself, and I suspect saving it to reread later will help me more when the next book comes out so I can go back and remember what I read. Often times when I read, the book picks up substantially near the end and I read the last hundred pages in one go, but I'm going to hold back on that and keep doing what I've been doing.

Ch 24

Standard medieval marriage. No love, all politics. But Dalinar is attracted to her, which is a start.

Ah, so it seems Dalinar's memories aren't back in full. He only recalls the earliest memories of their time together. I guess he's gonna have to say more oaths to unlock those later memories.

I can't really start to speculate on the nature of the Nightwatcher considering how little we know of it... her? For some reason I have this idea in my head that the Nightwatcher was female, but now I don't know why I assumed that. Were there implications in the past book that it was female? Or rather as female as a spren can be. I checked the wiki to make sure I wasn't crazy, and it calls her female too, so that's good. And now the wiki's been updated to have information from Oathbringer in it, so I gotta be careful D:

I'm glad to see Dalinar using his watches. Good on him for punctuality.

Oh. Oh boy oh boy, my man Taravangian is here. Well this just got a lot more interesting. He SEEMS dumb today, but that could be a front because he doesn't want Dalinar to know the truth.

Oooh, and we have another Knight Radiant. Cool. For some reason I am picturing her as an anime character. >_> I mean... skirt, unbuttoned top, gloves, posing with her weapon on her shoulder. It says she's middle aged, which is unanime, but hey, we need some middle aged badasses, too!

I think this day's Taravangian is legitimately not-smart. He's so innocuous and he is brought to tears when he talks about sorrow. If these are just crocodile tears from a genius-Tara, then he's a damn good actor.

Navani is fashionable as fuck today. Hairpins designed like Shardblades? I feel like there could be a social statement there. Like how on irl Earth we wear shirts or hats with logos of bands or products we like. In Roshar, you could wear a Shardblade hairpin resembling the one belonging to a person you like. Since Dalinar doesn't have a Shardblade right now (I think, right? Oathbringer is with the Sadeas camp, and Szeth's honorblade is in a toilet, right?), then I imagine Navani's hairpin looks like her son Elhokar's blade.

Aww, they called Tara and idiot ;( Though I'm proud of my girl Navani noticing his melancholy and stating he's always had it.

Navani asks if a Radiant would be anything other than trustworthy. I mean... you guys kinda have a history of Radiants betraying mankind sooooo... And besides, saying your oath, even with an earnest heart, doesn't mean anything for the future. A human's heart can change. Marriage is a perfect example of this. An oath of true love can still end in heartbreak.

long post, continued next
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ch 24, continued...

Dalinar and Navani discuss the Old Magic which is breaking, allowing him to remember Evi. I mean... do we ACTUALLY know the terms of the Nightwater's deal? Maybe the curse wasn't "you will never rememeber Evi" but rather "you will forget about Evi until you make these oaths." Hell, I'd laugh my ass off if the terms were "you will forget about your wife" but it got broken because Dalinar remarried :v If he starts forgetting about Navani, I called it here.

Oh good, Dalinar refers to the Nightwatcher as a 'she' here too. Whew, I'm not crazy!

There are paired discs in places throughout the tower. My guess: teleportation panels. Step on one, activate it, and it'll take you to its twin somewhere else in the tower.

Geez yeah, I kinda agree with Dalinar's assessment that the king suddenly blurting out that the Shin are hateful people was a little awkward. As everyone lists a bunch of places, I consult the world map. I remember thinking this when I first saw the map, but I want to point it out: the fact that Marabethia is a bridge. I can't help but think "Bridge to Terabithia" whenever I see it, and that makes me sad.

Lmao, this Tukari king is full of it. I don't even need to comment, because everyone says what I'm thinking.

Also, no mention of trying to contact Aimia. There's a city on the map, Icewater, but its unclear if it's part of Aimia or Tukar, or hell I could see Steen owning it. I don't think the main island is a desolate wasteland, is it? I remember the guy who was 'collecting' spren was Aimian, so there are people who live somewhere, whether that's on the main island or Icewater. I wonder if the main island got fucked up in the Everstorm, being the furthest west. It doesn't appear to have any mountains to protect it from winds.

And yup, it took an "idiot" like Taravangian to slap everyone awake and realize that uniting Roshar means conquering it. Yay world conquest! Because this always works well... and it totally won't end with the world in a state similar to how Mistborn's world began. >_>

JESUS CHRIST what the FUCK is this picture on the next page? Are these horses? My friend Arria would not be pleased to see such tortured and miserable horses. Well, this is a new chapter, so I get to just err... stop here.
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Where I'm at now I definitely have the opinion that this is better than WoK but not even close to WoR.
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tcaz2 posted...

Done!

Mmmm I think the book was overall better than Way of Kings but definitely not as good as Words of Radiance.

I think my biggest issue with it was the pacing. It was fine for the first bit and during the Kholinar stuff, but everything else just felt like it plodded. There was just huge swathes of the book after the first couple hundred pages where almost nothing happened, up until they left for Kholinar. The climax/ending stuff was also kinda weird feeling.

Also biggest disappointment of all time award goes to Taravangian. After being built up for two books and seeming like a really impressive antagonist he fell flat on his face in this book and delivered on absolutely zero of his build up.

I actually really enjoyed Taravangian's contribution to the book. His chapters and interactions with Dalimar were great to read, but more importantly I would disagree with the idea that he fell on his face. He successfully manipulated his way around the council, and the only reason his plans failed at all was divine intervention. Even after that, he didn't even get kicked off the council and also scraped by with a relatively favorable position by bargaining with Odium. Not to mention, The Diagram foreseeing his meeting with Odium could mean he's where he wants to be. He's also the only person who knows about Renarin being Odium's blind spot. This could be his endgame, but I wouldn't necessarily count him out already.
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Hmmm that's a good point. What if the things the Diagram was "wrong" on... were INTENTIONALLY wrong, to manipulate himself and the people around him to bring about just this situation?

That is a very distinct possibility, that would be quite interesting.

Oh and I'm genuinely surprised by how not only inoffensive but somewhat likable Lift was in the final part of the book. Her original chapter and Edgedancer were GOD AWFUL to read through and I groaned the few times she showed up before that, but she was pretty decent in the final battle. Hopefully Sanderson can keep that up.

At about the 85% point. I don't think I have enough time tonight to finish it, but definitely this weekend.

Things are shaping up to be amazing at the end I can tell.
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tcaz2 posted...

Oh and I'm genuinely surprised by how not only inoffensive but somewhat likable Lift was in the final part of the book. Her original chapter and Edgedancer were GOD AWFUL to read through and I groaned the few times she showed up before that, but she was pretty decent in the final battle. Hopefully Sanderson can keep that up.

I felt this way too. I think in general, the comedic elements in the book are much improved. No more awkward Shallan humor unless she's making intentionally bad puns (which are obviously great). I definitely didn't expect Lift/Szeth/Nightblood to make such a good team

Weird tangent, but spoilers for this book and Warbreaker:
So Shashara, from Warbreaker, gets namedropped in one of Szeth's chapters. Szeth mentions the name is similar to their name for Shalash, the Herald in the last few chapters. Shashara should be extra dead though because I think it's implied Nightblood ate her soul? I'm new to the Cosmere and not sure how everything works, but is Sanderson just fucking with us or is it actually plausible they're the same person?
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Weird tangent, but spoilers for this book and Warbreaker:
So Shashara, from Warbreaker, gets namedropped in one of Szeth's chapters. Szeth mentions the name is similar to their name for Shalash, the Herald in the last few chapters. Shashara should be extra dead though because I think it's implied Nightblood ate her soul? I'm new to the Cosmere and not sure how everything works, but is Sanderson just fucking with us or is it actually plausible they're the same person?

Pretty sure he's just fucking with us. Vasher killed her with Nightblood. I remember reading a words of brandon while ago where he answered a question about name similarity. Sometimes it is just coincidence and I think he's toying with us here.
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When you quote something in spoiler text, you should make sure it's still spoiler texted
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Shit, I thought I did. Thanks for catching that

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Weird tangent, but spoilers for this book and Warbreaker:
So Shashara, from Warbreaker, gets namedropped in one of Szeth's chapters. Szeth mentions the name is similar to their name for Shalash, the Herald in the last few chapters. Shashara should be extra dead though because I think it's implied Nightblood ate her soul? I'm new to the Cosmere and not sure how everything works, but is Sanderson just fucking with us or is it actually plausible they're the same person?

Pretty sure he's just fucking with us. Vasher killed her with Nightblood. I remember reading a words of brandon while ago where he answered a question about name similarity. Sometimes it is just coincidence and I think he's toying with us here.
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Ch 25

Oh right, this fucked up horse picture is a thing.

The chapter opener says that the writer of this book-within-a-book killed someone who loved them. I ain't even gonna judge. Some yanderes gotta be put down.

Shallan compares Urithiru to a body. Inb4 it's a giant mecha.

Dalinar has commanded everyone travel in pairs. You're just gonna make it easier for the tower to mirror their deaths.

Mmm, wait. Tower, mirror... didn't Shallan see some horse water spouts earlier on when she was investigating the death of the second nobleman? Since this happened before I started writing down all my thoughts, I gotta search for it the hard way... (minutes later) Okay, found it. She sees horse-head water spouts. Not sure how her art got transformed into this monstrosity, but it's gotta have something to do with the weird mirror/reflection/illusion characteristics of the tower. Like this is the same horse, but seen from different perspectives.

And on the next page, Shallan discusses the "wrongness" and impossible geometries of this place. She then found herself going through a narrow corridor, so narrow she could touch both sides with her fingers, and I immediately thought of The Enigma of Amigara Fault. FOR THE LOVE OF WHATEVER GOD YOU BELIEVE IN, TURN THE FUCK BACK.

Alright, she's gonna use the stage to practice being Veil.

This girl is described as having a long scarf that seems to always billow in the winds. Probably a Nippon Ichi/Disgaea main character.

In the play Shallan is telling to Pattern, a wall was built to keep out the storms. I uh... I'll just let that joke tell itself. I really hate talking about politics on the internet, so yeah. Just... make the joke yourself.

Aww, Shallan summoned creationspren. How adorable. That's gotta feel good for a Rosharian artist.

Her illusions are changing without her consent. Either something else is influencing the illusion, which I'll blame on the tower's magic, or this is Sanderson writing an allegory of how sometimes when you're writing a fictional character, they just sorta... write themselves. Maybe it's both *shurg*

Girl climbs the wall, so now we have a Nippon Ichi character in the world of Grandia. Awesome!

Then the girl becomes Rosharian Prometheus, though with the distinct advantage of not being tied to a rock for all eternity with an eagle eating her liver.

And now she's getting lost in her own illusions. Great, because Shallan is the kind of mentally sound person you want dealing with this. >_> Aaand, she basically says the same thing in a few lines.

Whew, apparently Shallan is in a peep show room. >_> I would normally say Sanderson would never write something dirty, but he's been surprising me lately so let's see what Shallan sees! Hmm, just a spren. Maybe the kind that's responsible for all the shenanigans that have been occurring.

Oh no! Shallan stabbing that Horneater a chapter ago came back to reflect on Rock ;( Not Rock... he's a sweetheart. Damn airsick lowlanders, not knowing how tower works!

Now Shallan has a fangirl who wants to cling to her the same way she clung to Jasnah. How cute. Probably a ruse, but hey, if it works...
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Got to 95% done last night. Pretty amazing final sequence so far. I will definitely finish the book tonight after work. I'm excited.
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Ch 26

Dalinar flashback, this time featuring Evi. He's gotta pump up their friendship together if he wants to evolve her into an Espeon or Umbreon. Okay, that was bad. I apologize for that terrible joke.

Oh yeah I remember this talk about the One that the Iri believe in. When I read that chapter in WoR, I felt like it was Sanderson writing for a bigger Cosmere-level world, rather than just Roshar.

Evi seems to be trying her best to make this relationship work, but Dalinar ain't too into it. All he has to do is say 'whatever' and he's officially Squall-tier of not caring.

Weird that musicspren follow Ryshadium. Either the horses do some kind of mental-singing-communication thing a la Parshendi which is enough to summon them. Or musicspren like the clopping of hooves.

Oof, they're been pillaging the countryside. That's also a double-edged sword in war, especially if you're looking for conquer the peasants you just pillaged. It seems to have worked out for Gavilar though, so all's well that ends well.

I'm proud of Dalinar being able to suppress the Thrill and utilize battle tactics. I confess, a little part of me gets aroused reading about army formations and flanking and troop composition >_> It's especially great in fantasy series featuring fantastic creatures. I hope later on in this series, Sanderson will give us this degree of tactics with combatants other than regular humans.

Damn it Dalinar, right when I was starting to respect you, ya go and break your horse. Bad! Good thing those Ryshadium were conveniently referenced earlier.

Oh and now you killed your own men while in your berserker rage. Good job, ya dunce.

Props to Kalanor for having a lovely Ryshadium and treating it with some respect. At least someone here knows how to treat a horse!

Kalanor also knows how to bait Dalinor into a disadvantageous position. Man, I'm kinda sad to know that Kalanor is gonna die, because he's a pretty cool dude imo. I mean... I'm assuming he's gonna die because they said Vamah would take over after him, and we know Vamah is a highprince.

Yeeeep. Dalinor gets jealous that he's not the only one to experience the Thrill, then kills him. Rip Kalanor, you earned your place in the Tranquiline Halls.

Oh boy, the Thrill is giving him some rather treasonous thoughts right now. You really ought to stop that and soon, buddy.

Passionspren. That's a very broad feeling. I wonder about the full spectrum of situations in which they can appear. I do absolutely fucking agree with the line about how a legion of shamespren should have appeared, though imagine if they did. Gavilar would have been incredibly confused, thought about it, then come to the realization that his brother had some very bad thoughts in the depths of the Thrill.

Jesus Christ, I turned the page and there's another horrifying ugly ass picture here that once again reminds me of The Enigma of Amigara Fault. I WARNED YOU ABOUT THE TUNNELS, BRO. I WARNED YOU ABOUT THE TUNNELS.

Oh good, he did summon a shamespren this time. He deserved it.

Dalinar vows to never be a king, but come on man, sometimes you gotta step up and lead.
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I finished it the other night. Really enjoyed it.

It honestly felt like a series finale... I dunno how he builds up for more epic than that one tbh
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Also I fucking love all the interactions between Szeth and Nightblood. Nightblood may be one of my favorite characters. "Lol this is boring can we go fight those guys"
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I thought this book SUCKED

Edgedancer was way better
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Also I fucking love all the interactions between Szeth and Nightblood. Nightblood may be one of my favorite characters. "Lol this is boring can we go fight those guys"

I also love how Szeth refers to Nightblood respectfully as sword-nimi. They make a good pair and I'm looking forward to Szeth's book. The Szeth/Lift team was really nice at the end. I didn't know that's something I wanted to see. Nightblood even likes her. Next up, let's see some Lift interactions with Rock and Lopen.
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ClyTheCool posted...

I thought this book SUCKED

Edgedancer was way better

woof.

What didn't you like, exactly?
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Yankees posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

Also I fucking love all the interactions between Szeth and Nightblood. Nightblood may be one of my favorite characters. "Lol this is boring can we go fight those guys"

I also love how Szeth refers to Nightblood respectfully as sword-nimi. They make a good pair and I'm looking forward to Szeth's book. The Szeth/Lift team was really nice at the end. I didn't know that's something I wanted to see. Nightblood even likes her. Next up, let's see some Lift interactions with Rock and Lopen.

This so much.

Had no idea Szeth and Lift teaming would be so good but now I want more of it.

And if Adolin manages to fully awaken his dead blade (Sanderson confirmed it to be possible and it seems to be happening slowly) it seems like he'll be an Edgedancer as well as it's the same type of spren as Wyndle.

If that's the case he'll have to go to Lift to train and that will be incredible.
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Oh god, Adolin being able to slide around all over the place like Lift, while being the literal best in the world with a shardblade? That would be OP as fuck and I can't wait for it to happen.

Speaking of OP

Like, did Szeth and Nightblood literally CLEAVE A THUNDERCLAST IN HALF WITH ONE STRIKE? I had to re-read that scene half a dozen times just to make sure that's what actually happened.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Like, did Szeth and Nightblood literally CLEAVE A THUNDERCLAST IN HALF WITH ONE STRIKE? I had to re-read that scene half a dozen times just to make sure that's what actually happened.

That was incredible. Shardblades can't truly kill the fused, but I bet Nightblood can. I'm sure we'll find out soon. It's been a long time since I've read Warbreaker, and I'm tempted to reread it now.
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Yankees posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

Like, did Szeth and Nightblood literally CLEAVE A THUNDERCLAST IN HALF WITH ONE STRIKE? I had to re-read that scene half a dozen times just to make sure that's what actually happened.

That was incredible. Shardblades can't truly kill the fused, but I bet Nightblood can. I'm sure we'll find out soon. It's been a long time since I've read Warbreaker, and I'm tempted to reread it now.

Sanderson has said that Nightblood is one of the most invested objects in the Cosmere that isn't a shard, so I could buy it taking out a Fused by like eating the actual soul that would respawn.
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I love how Szeth goes from having an Honorblade, which is basically a souped up Shardblade in the first place...

to having Nightblood, which is even MORE roided out.
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Made the mistake of going to Reddit and hoo boy the Dalinar hate is strong over there. Made me have to educate some people on our (bright)lord and savior the Bondsmith.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Made the mistake of going to Reddit and hoo boy the Dalinar hate is strong over there. Made me have to educate some people on our (bright)lord and savior the Bondsmith.

Whaaaat

Get em extha.

By the way extha i just wanted to thank you for making this topic - its exactly the kind of thing the boards been missing.
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Speaking of reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckmoash/

LOL.
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Okay, here's my thoughts on the book



This book was too long. Brandon told us how insanely long it was and I got hyped, because an even longer version of WoR or WoK? Sign me up!

But it doesn't utilize the length.

I felt like nothing noteworthy or interesting happened for the first 50-70%of the book. It was just Dalinar giving a very poor attempt at politics, Kaladin hanging out with his old homies and some parshmen, and Dalinar flashbacks of how he conquered Alethkar with Gavilar. The Dalinar flashbacks kinda cool, but a lot of them felt very by the numbers. We were just going through the motions of some generic fighting.

The only really interesting thing was Shallan and her split personalities, and her hunt and vanquishing of the unmade in Urithiru.

The worst part about all this, is that it seemed so clear to me that they needed to be DOING SOMETHING. Hey, a backwards storm swept through the world and ruined literally everything. You currently believe that red eyed void bringers like you fought in the Shattered Plains appeared in every city and town. If you just sit in your tower and try to play politics, the world will literally not survive another week. You can't just chill and play house. GO DO SOMETHING. Instead they spend weeks just hanging out.

Like some of the high princes were just chilling in the warcamps still and weren't joining Dalinar in Urithiru. So.... not even THOSE guys are gonna march their army back to Alethkar and help their populace thats destroyed by the Everstorm and besieged by Voidbringers?

It just felt so stupid.

Then they decide "okay hey lets try and take back Kholinar before the void bringer army gets there, how does three weeks from now sound???" Like bitch, get to Kholinar NOW

So the Kholinar arc begins. And goddamnit it's more of the same. Okay, so a void bringer army is coming, and there's all these mysteries! Who's running the wall, what is with the Cult of Moments, what's going on in the palace? What are the remaining lords doing? Let's split up and spend weeks hanging out and maybe we'll figure it out!

Seriously, what the fuck. The void bringer army is coming. Like, bitch, storm the goddamn palace.

Every single time someone would learn something new, they'd be like "wow, lets see what I can do with this information TOMMORROW?? it's bed time now though!" and I'd tear my hair out.

Kaladin on the wall was the worst. He had a pretty clear idea of what kind of person Azure was... and instead of confronting her, he just chills with her guards for a few days... and then confronts her anyways. Why did he not just do this three days ago? Once he does, she just lets him take 500 dudes to go storm the goddamn palace immediately.

But of course it's too late, the void bringer army is here. Because you've been fucking around for MONTHS for no reason.

Seriously, I do not understand how Sanderson story boarded this. The attempt to retake the city was a complete failure because the characters acted uncharacteristically stupid. Would they have been able to overcome the Unmade without the void bringer army attacking? Hard to say... but it was super fucking hopeless once they waited for the void bringers to attack. At the very least, Elhokar would have survived that shit.

Killing Elhokar there was dumb as hell too. I don't mind him dying in general but wow does it make the climax of WoR feel worthless when they let Moash just kill him so soon after.

Honestly this is all such a disaster.

Even with Wit and Vivenna doing everything they can to hold this city, the main characters colossally fuck it up.

---

The stuff in Shadesmar was okay. It was neat seeing a different aspect of the world, but it wasn't too exciting there either.

The only really good part of Kholinar was Shallan's arc. As stupid as her time consuming plot was, her fuck up actually made sense for the character and did a great job growing her, and her scenes with Wit were great.

I actually wish I'd reread Words of Radiance because I didn't have a completely clear idea of how we left her mentally after that book, and her fragile state of mind would have been even better with that context. As it is, her hiding from the truths of her past and hiding herself within her disguises was great. Adolin seeing through her disguises actually made the relationship pretty endearing. I'd say Shallan is definitely one of the high points of this book.

Azure was cool. It was great having Vivenna back. I'm curious what's going on with her shardblade. Is it sentient like Nightblood? Is it a more refined version? Perhaps a weaker but more stable version? I'm curious to see where she goes. Obviously she should have come with the group and she would have reunited with both Vasher and Nightblood but oh well, I'm sure we'll see her again soon.

The setting for the final battle was kind of dumb. I REALLY dislike the "k I'm just gonna mind control your whole army" thing. It's sooo goddamn cheap. He can just take all your guys no problem. Easy win! If they were actually willing like Amaram, that's one thing. But just being angry? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Even with the Thrill I don't like it.

Dalinar did have some great flashback stuff. The Rift was awesome both times. Really good stuff there, even though many of his flashbacks were kinda generic.

He was a straight up G in the climax. I thought the idea of him being Odium's champion was pretty dumb. I was like "okay this is a stupid idea, obviously he wouldn't WANT to be the champion, and if it actually happens that would be completely fucking stupid." But I couldn't help but be excited when he resisted and had that one glory spren in his fist. Then he partially ascended and told Odium to go fuck himself.

Even though his content was mostly boring for the first half of the book, I don't know why anybody would hate Dalinar. He's totally badass. I do like the very big contrast we see of how brutish and selfish he was in the past, compared to the regal general we've been seeing since the first book. It's almost hard to believe it's the same guy, but I guess that's why he's our hero and also why Odium wanted him. It's too bad for him that Cultivation personally took an interest in growing Dalinar into someone who could resist Odium.

Szeth was cool. Nightblood was cool. Lift was awesome. Nale is stupid as fuck. I'm tired of that guy being stupid as fuck about everything. After Lift's scenes with him in Edgedancer, his new resolve is just fucking stupid.

The Bridge Four scenes were okay. Like they were fun, but since so little was happening for how long this book was, I don't think we needed hangout chapters like those. I already love Bridge Four. It's not like I need to be convinced to like them.

Renarin was meh. Jasnah might be the most physically capable fighter in the series. Even Dalinar and Kaladin might get fucked up by her. When Amaram threatened her and she took a fighting stance and was like "oh yes, give me a reason, bitch" I was so on board for an asswhooping.

I don't know what else I want to talk about. Feel free to ask me about things.

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Ch 27

The map was made by merging Shallan and Dalinar's powers. Cool. So there are benefits to utilizing teamwork. I had to look up what Bondsmiths even do, because I don't recall Dalinar using his new powers.

Shallan feels like something is watching her in the dark halls. Probably the Amigara Fault spren she drew on the last page. Oh wait... that's what she's actually drawing RIGHT NOW. Neat.

They are spren of Odium, who's being built up to be the big bad, but these spren seem to just reflect the evil things they see. Until they start doing bad things on their own, they're just another force of nature imo.

They say that Iri has joined the enemy, but there's more to the Voidbringers than just rawr evil. Maybe they'll come to some realization that Dalinar and co don't.

Shallan thinks about how spanreeds in Kholinar have been cut off one by one. I mean, they're powered with stormlight. If your enemy can suck all the stormlight out of them, they become useless. Then again, if Kholinar is half the shitshow it seems to be, maybe peasants have stolen them all and dismantled their gems. And when she talks about smaller cities going dark, well... maybe everyone is dead. \_()_/

Aladar and Ruthar have a pissing match which is sure to solve any and all problems!

Shallan is finally realizing that the spren are mimicking the murders/injuries.

Oh good, we finally get to meet Malata. I hope she's as much of an anime character as I first assumed.

Shallan calls her annoying. u wot m8? All she did was point out a fact in a silly way. You know, like you do all the time?

Destroying things is a totally anime ability, so I can take it.

Shallan is planning to observe the mimicking spren. Just gotta wait for a murder or otherwise something terrible to happen. Oooh, I wonder if when the inevitable battle happens between the Kholin and Sadeas camps, if the mimic spren will kill off an equal number of people to the number of soldiers killed. What if they run out of look-alikes in the tower? Will they attack a nearby town? Will they store their grudge up until a suitable person shows up? Will they forget about it?

If looks could kill, Amaram would be dead twice thanks to Shallan and Adolin. Then someone who looks like him would also be dead twice.

I just... don't understand why anyone is agreeing that Amaram should be anything. General, highprinces, regent, the leader of the Knights Radiant, whatever. Like... over half your members hate this guy! Sure Ialai says that the soldiers in the Sadeas camp like him, but 1) do you really think this woman knows/cares/is telling the truth about a damn thing about their opinions and 2) do you really want someone who is liked by the soldiers of the man who's been a fucking douchebag for the last two books? This is not a great start to your season, Coach Dalinar! And Elhokar just agrees because he wants to keep everything peaceful in the kingdom. The king needs to learn when to put his foot down. Probably would be too little too late at this point.

So did Kaladin kill Shallan's brother during that battle, or had the Shardblade already gone through various hands? Who knows how many people had owned it/borrowed it. Man, I kinda think it's chuuni as hell when works of fiction have named swords, but I kinda wish more Shardblades had names. They're the only ones I can remember lol.

Shallan looks at her older drawings and finds the terrifying horse image. Probably made while under the influence of the mimicspren (as I will call them until they get a real name). Like, maybe someone smacked a horse spout and they forced Shallan to recreate it in art. Or maybe someone drew a horse so bad that it was considered an injury and the mimicspren repeated that.

YEAH SHALLAN IT'S OKAY WHEN YOU WALK INTO SOMEONE'S ROOM UNANNOUNCED. I'm kinda glad she intruded on Gaz taking a shit. That'll teach her.
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CoolCly posted...

Okay, here's my thoughts on the book

I see a lot of complaints about the pacing being awful until Part 3, but it's something I didn't notice while reading the book. Honestly I must have a ton of tolerance for Samderson's worldbuilding, because there was a LOT of it going on here that I think is needed. We know very little about the rest of Rothar outside of Alethkar and the Shattered Plains, now everyone is in a new setting and there's a unite the world plotline except we don't know anything about other parts of the world. Meanwhile we also find out the Everstorm didn't so what we think it did, though honestly my first thought on seeing it not really be so bad was that it's a bit of a copout.

The Bridge Four chapters I think are all totally necessary. Both as POVs and for Kaladin's training chapters with them. Bridge Four turns out to secretly be Kaladin's entire arc this book. He has to keep getting bailed out by other people and I think it's fine for him to chill out at this point after he basically stole the show in Shallan's book.

I also thought Kholinar dragged in the middle, though I liked the rest. Mainly Kaladin getting buddy-buddy with Not Bridge Four (tm) and Shallan dicking around as Veil forever for no reason. I feel like most of the awkwardness around this arc can be chalked up to the Oathgate problem. Sanderson knows that their plan is doomed from the start, and it almost feels like his lack of urgency seeps through to the characters. As for the armies, no one wants to march when they can potentially use their shiny new Gate. Also, I think it's stated (or implied) that military operations are already a nightmare due to the highstorms; now there are twice as many and they also messed up their ability to forecast them for most of the opening. If they try and fail it's basically suicide.

I've come down on the book a little since I finished it. I think it's more similar to WoK than WoR in that both had a lot of worldbuilding to get out of the way so the pacing drags. Only difference is that I'm already invested in the world for this one. I still think there's enough cool shit going on to put it over WoK.
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Yeah CoolCly's complaints are strange to me. Like, I can't exactly refute them but it's not something that I really thought about while reading. I don't know, I've read a lot of war focused fantasy books and many of them don't have a sense of urgency throughout. Characters are more long term minded.

Also if you think Shallan was a highlight of the book, we're not going to see eye to eye!

ExThaNemesis posted...

Made the mistake of going to Reddit and hoo boy the Dalinar hate is strong over there. Made me have to educate some people on our (bright)lord and savior the Bondsmith.

What? What do people have against Dalinar?
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CoolCly posted...

The setting for the final battle was kind of dumb. I REALLY dislike the "k I'm just gonna mind control your whole army" thing. It's sooo goddamn cheap. He can just take all your guys no problem. Easy win! If they were actually willing like Amaram, that's one thing. But just being angry? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Even with the Thrill I don't like it.

I didn't mind so much since it was just the Sadeas army and it felt like they were being set up for something the whole book. More importantly, they weren't quite mind-controlled, they were just out of control, like Dalinar occasionally got in his flashbacks. They were attacking everyone, including Parshmen who got too close.
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Dalinar was awesome in this book. I can't guess at what the problem might be.

I felt like Shallan got too much attention this time although I think she has been getting better. Her segments sometimes dragged for me. It almost felt as much her book as his.
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Eddv posted...

Whaaaat

Get em extha.

By the way extha i just wanted to thank you for making this topic - its exactly the kind of thing the boards been missing.

Glad you liked it. I just wanted to talk about my favorite book series and I know we had a buncha other Stormlight readers.

As far as Reddit not liking Dalinar, there were multiple people that I saw talking about how his character is just a trope and that the way he behaved (and also the way his sons behaved) were not believable.

And I was like BITCH HOW
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