Current Events > This is the amount of money stolen in the United States each year.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mal_Fet posted...

Balrog0 posted...

maybe they let bartenders have direct access to register commands but that seems weird to me. but how do you get it open to count it otherwise?

Count like 10 minutes before and keep a running tally of transactions towards the end and just add that to the amount you already counted

You're an idiot.
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For everyone else, I'd like to point out this article regarding rounding time clocks:

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/7-minutes-labor-law-60768.html

Specifically:

An employer cannot, for example, schedule an employee to work 8-hour, 7-minute shifts every day, thus getting 35 minutes of free work out of the employee over the course of a week.

While they didn't schedule X hours + 7 minutes, they were taking advantage of that 7 minute leeway with the policy to count at the end of the shift.
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I was lucky enough to not run into the problems described in here when I worked at WalMart. However, I was scheduled for 34 hours a week or so and usually ended at 36, because of having to cover until people came, etc. so if I was closer to 40 I think there would have been more pressure for me to not record time and things like that.

At the job I worked this summer (which will be my full time job starting next year), we had to fill out timesheets every week which were checked by two different sets of people and a lot of different things to keep meticulous records so that time fraud wasn't an issue (on either side). We weren't paid overtime, but we could carry up to a certain number of flex hours to apply to different weeks.

Idk why people are coming into this topic attempting to "Gotcha" the study. Does accepting that some employers take advantage of employees mean that you have to accept other things?
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Anteaterking posted...

so if I was closer to 40

Thanks, Obama!

Questionmarktarius posted...

Anteaterking posted...

so if I was closer to 40

Thanks, Obama!

This pre-dated Obamacare.
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Anteaterking posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Anteaterking posted...

so if I was closer to 40

Thanks, Obama!

This pre-dated Obamacare.

...thanks, Dubya?

https://www.statisticbrain.com/employee-theft-statistics/

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/risk-management/pages/employee-theft-costs-retailers-billions.aspx

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/workplace-crime-costs-us-businesses-50-billion-a-year.html

Employees steal more from their employers than the OP claims employers steal from their employees.

Plus the methodology is screwed up. "When we worked more than eight hours per day, it was rounded down!" "If we worked more than 40 hours a week, we didn't get overtime!" That's because you were only OFFERED eight hours a day, 40 hours a week. You don't get to just stay there as long as you want and get paid for it.
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r4X0r posted...

Employees steal more from their employers than the OP claims employers steal from their employees.

that is literally not what your sources say actually

Just over a third of that loss (34.5 percent)$15 billionis attributed to employee theft, and another 6.8 percent to vendor fraud. The largest chunk of the reported shrinkage comes from shoplifting at 38 percent. The remaining loss is attributed to administrative errors or unknown factors.
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r4X0r posted...

you were only OFFERED eight hours a day, 40 hours a week. You don't get to just stay there as long as you want and get paid for it.

If permitted I would have counted my register a few minutes early to clock out at the designated time. Some companies take advantage of that and I worked for one.
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r4X0r posted...

That's because you were only OFFERED eight hours a day, 40 hours a week. You don't get to just stay there as long as you want and get paid for it.

You realize that most of the overtime loss described in the original post is from people being required to work more than that 40 hours a week but not being paid, not that people tried to work more and weren't paid.
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r4X0r posted...

That's because you were only OFFERED eight hours a day, 40 hours a week. You don't get to just stay there as long as you want and get paid for it.

if OT isn't approved then that needs to be monitored and enforced by management and not illegally erased to appease or avoid a corporate chain of command

I happy to have never been pressured to manipulate on that front and that we have tracking by the minute, but if we are under goals then our overall payroll budget and schedule opportunity is reduced
and if we break that and take or allow OT when explicitly told not to then that is when the consequences come down the line
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Mal_Fet posted...

Balrog0 posted...

maybe they let bartenders have direct access to register commands but that seems weird to me. but how do you get it open to count it otherwise?

Count like 10 minutes before and keep a running tally of transactions towards the end and just add that to the amount you already counted

That's not feasible especially if it's busy and it could be security concern depending on the location of the store.
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Yeah you usually can't just open a register without it being logged. I don't even remember if I could do it at all without a manager's code, this was over 10 years ago now.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

That's not feasible especially if it's busy and it could be security concern depending on the location of the store.

yes the response just confirmed to me that its not a situation he has been in most likely

if you've ever counted money in a register you'd know you can't exactly do it in a circumspect manner, and if you've worked for someone before you know they are suspicious of you taking money out of the register until they have confirmed that is what they want you to do

the fact that he keeps making it up personal ability rather than management expectations also makes him seem like a sort of shit employee, or at least not very good at following orders
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Or lying.
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In most retail locations, every register transaction is logged. You could manually manipulate the till all you wanted once it's open, and a lot of times we'd use customer transactions involving cash to do bookkeeping stuff rather than do a no-op to force the till open with a manager login.

Also, depending on where you work, you can't count down a till until after you've closed and the last customer has been checked out. If the store closes at 9pm, and you're still checking people out or there are some stragglers, you're sticking around either until they finish up or a manager gives them the boot. There's no "keeping a running tally" with regards to change, especially in large stores with multiple registers.

In other words, you stay until the job is done, and if an employer doesn't want to pay you for staying late, then the owners should reconsider their line of work.

Balrog0 posted...

that is literally not what your sources say actually

Just over a third of that loss (34.5 percent)$15 billionis attributed to employee theft, and another 6.8 percent to vendor fraud. The largest chunk of the reported shrinkage comes from shoplifting at 38 percent. The remaining loss is attributed to administrative errors or unknown factors.

The numbers can vary, especially since a lot of shoplifting is facilitated by employees but perpetrated by customers, so it's difficult to decide which column to put it under, if it can be decided at all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/business/30theft.html

Shoplifters? Studies Say Keep an Eye on Workers

"Retail experts say they can only estimate what portion of their theft losses can be traced to employees, to shoplifting and to vendors, but they view their own store workers as the leading culprits. The national study, based on information obtained from 106 retail chains that responded to a questionnaire, said employees were responsible for 43 percent of the stores unexplained losses, versus 36 percent for shoplifting."

"The most common type of employee theft is sweethearting, in which cashiers fail to ring up or scan goods that friends or relatives present at the register"
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Just reading topics that Mal posts in is often irksome.
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r4X0r posted...

Balrog0 posted...

that is literally not what your sources say actually

Just over a third of that loss (34.5 percent)?$15 billion?is attributed to employee theft, and another 6.8 percent to vendor fraud. The largest chunk of the reported shrinkage comes from shoplifting at 38 percent. The remaining loss is attributed to administrative errors or unknown factors.

The numbers can vary, especially since a lot of shoplifting is facilitated by employees but perpetrated by customers, so it's difficult to decide which column to put it under, if it can be decided at all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/business/30theft.html

Shoplifters? Studies Say Keep an Eye on Workers

"Retail experts say they can only estimate what portion of their theft losses can be traced to employees, to shoplifting and to vendors, but they view their own store workers as the leading culprits. The national study, based on information obtained from 106 retail chains that responded to a questionnaire, said employees were responsible for 43 percent of the stores? unexplained losses, versus 36 percent for shoplifting."

"The most common type of employee theft is ?sweethearting,? in which cashiers fail to ring up or scan goods that friends or relatives present at the register"

I wonder how they break down those 43% unexplained losses. Does it include non-intentional shrink, such as miscounts, incorrect labeling or items that were missed by both parties?

LordRazziel posted...

Just reading topics that Mal posts in is often irksome.

My message board experience has greatly improved since putting him on ignore.
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Kineth posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Just reading topics that Mal posts in is often irksome.

My message board experience has greatly improved since putting him on ignore.

I don't need to do that.
I think Mal is an intelligent guy that can make good points. The problem is he is a partisan hack. The people that insult his intelligence are also partisan hacks. I even think he is more intelligent than I am. It's just frustrating to see an such intelligent person act like such a dumbass.
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LordRazziel posted...

Kineth posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Just reading topics that Mal posts in is often irksome.

My message board experience has greatly improved since putting him on ignore.

I don't need to do that.
I think Mal is an intelligent guy that can make good points. The problem is he is a partisan hack. The people that insult his intelligence are also partisan hacks. I even think he is more intelligent than I am. It's just frustrating to see an such intelligent person act like such a dumbass.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.
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Kineth posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Kineth posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Just reading topics that Mal posts in is often irksome.

My message board experience has greatly improved since putting him on ignore.

I don't need to do that.
I think Mal is an intelligent guy that can make good points. The problem is he is a partisan hack. The people that insult his intelligence are also partisan hacks. I even think he is more intelligent than I am. It's just frustrating to see an such intelligent person act like such a dumbass.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Not really sure what sort of sentiment you're trying to convey, here.
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I think that law enforcement needs to step in and investigate this more aggressively.
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shockthemonkey posted...

My favorite part of this topic is DE dropping his act to point out how Mal isnt making any logical sense.

What act? Most of the times I do agree with Mal. This is just one of the few times that I don't.
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LordRazziel posted...

Not really sure what sort of sentiment you're trying to convey, here.

I think you're misguided on how much credit you give Mal_Fet on the good parts of his nature.
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Mal_Fet posted...

Villain posted...

1 hour and 10 minutes of unpaid work every pay period.

If you consistently get done late, maybe the problem is you. Just a thought.

Lol goddamn. I'd tell you what I think of you and what I marked your post for but you probably wouldn't be able to comprehend it if you can't understand something this simple.
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Anteaterking posted...

I was lucky enough to not run into the problems described in here when I worked at WalMart. However, I was scheduled for 34 hours a week or so and usually ended at 36, because of having to cover until people came, etc. so if I was closer to 40 I think there would have been more pressure for me to not record time and things like that.

At the job I worked this summer (which will be my full time job starting next year), we had to fill out timesheets every week which were checked by two different sets of people and a lot of different things to keep meticulous records so that time fraud wasn't an issue (on either side). We weren't paid overtime, but we could carry up to a certain number of flex hours to apply to different weeks.

Idk why people are coming into this topic attempting to "Gotcha" the study. Does accepting that some employers take advantage of employees mean that you have to accept other things?

They like to think they know what the real problem in the world is, and its lazy ungrateful employees.

Their bias is shattered.
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Need the trillions the fed steals from us.
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