Board 8 > ace attorney topic: the return (spoilers for 1-5, AAI1-2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mia over Godot
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Mia probably does as much in 3-5 as Maya does!

But Mia's always been the best at making the most of her screentime.
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that's why Mia > Maya
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Eh, they're close enough that I won't quibble over preferring Mia. I love Maya's chemistry with Phoenix, so the fact that she's more important as a plot device than as a character doesn't matter to me. The OT is less fun without her there.
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although arguably Trucy makes a bigger impact on AJ's fun factor than any character does in any of the other games

I don't even want to imagine how dull AJ would be without her
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I think Kay and AAI1 is what you're going for here
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Nah, I don't think Kay is actually that good in AAI1, at least in terms of fun and humor. All she does is joke about stealing stuff and Edgeworth tells her not to do it. Plus, it actually has other lighthearted characters to buoy it up. AJ is a crappy world with Trucy as its only beacon.
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mmm... in a world where everyone is super serious, Kay is the only one to lighten the mood. Lang, Badd, Yew, Edgeworth -- I think that's more true than Apollo and Trucy, where they're both kinda sewn from the same cloth.
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Yew is anti-serious, but she takes it to a ridiculous degree that I don't like it. It also has Gumshoe, Larry, Oldbag, and the Judge. Heck, even child Franziska is there to lighten the mood in the mostly serious E1-4. I think the tone in general in AAI1 is actually lighter than AJ anyway, where even Phoenix's sense of humor gets stripped from him. Apollo can be funny, but it's usually at his own expense because he takes himself too seriously, much like Edgeworth. I guess AJ still has the Judge, too, though.

I also think Lang and Badd are funnier characters despite their serious demeanor than someone like Klavier or Kristoph, too. Like, if you're looking for comic relief beyond Trucy, you're digging through Wesley Sticker and Spark Brushel.
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yeah, you're talking bit parts in AAI except for Gumshoe who is unfortunately more incompetent than funny. Larry and Oldbag are also painful. (the judge is great. more reminders for you than case 4 is better than case 5!)
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The bit parts matter! Ace Attorney is built on fun bit characters, and AJ doesn't have a lot of them.
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they do, but those ones are extremely bit! plus there's nothing funny about case 5 Oldbag or Larry
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also, I think I disagree about AJ's silliness? I mean, 4-2 speaks for itself and 4-3's murder is as silly as you get. 4-1 and 4-4 are not silly in the slightest, but neither is 2-4?
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I mean, I'm not a big fan of AAI Oldbag but maybe someone is. I do like AAI Larry though. I think Edgeworth plays off of him better than Phoenix does. I still think the tone of AAI1 is lighter overall though. Just compare the culprits. Portsman, Cammy, and Lance are just absurd and not meant to be taken seriously. AJ throws serious culprits at you right from the get-go. I think AJ throws absurd premises at you, but I don't know that they're meant to be lighthearted. I think AAI2 sometimes has a problem with taking itself too seriously (except for Manfred von Karma walking out of cake castles), but I don't think AAI1 does.
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transience posted...

also, I think I disagree about AJ's silliness? I mean, 4-2 speaks for itself and 4-3's murder is as silly as you get. 4-1 and 4-4 are not silly in the slightest, but neither is 2-4?

Well, 4-2's levity is based almost entirely around panty-snatching, and just on day 1. Alita is pretty no-nonsense as a character. 4-3's murder is ridiculous, but I don't think it was meant to be!

but yeah JFA is a low-key dark game because 2-2 is kinda serious business without a lot of humor too (although I think 2-4 has a lot of humor hidden in the margins in stuff like Oldbag's and de Killer's testimonies); it just has 2-1 and 2-3 going way over the top to balance it out
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4-2 has wesley who is as stereotypical an AA witness as I think you can find, and a guy playing harmonica with a cup of noodles on his head. its defendant is the whitest gangster ever and his dad has eyebrow hax for days. I think you're really underselling 4-2's zaniness!

I'm also pretty sure 4-3 was meant to be ridiculous the whole way! it just failed at every turn.

I dunno, I'm not buying it. AA4 has issues for sure but I don't think seriousness is one of them.
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Eh, I'll concede on 4-2 being zany, but I don't think 4-3 really has a lot of zaniness though, other than the convolutedness of the murder. Pretty much everyone is super serious except for Trucy and Valant. Heck, even the Judge is more serious than usual.
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I don't think Daryan is too serious.
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Daryan being flippant is part of why he's a good culprit, yeah. He's just being a jerkwad most of the time though, but it's a welcome change from a million Lamiroir testimonies. I think I like her less and less every time I play AJ.
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trucy is definitely more key to AA4 than kay to AAI

though as a point of interest, we actually get to experience AAI without kay, whereas we don't get to see AA4 without trucy, and it's bad. i imagine losing trucy would make 4-2 much worse and the investigations in 4-3 utterly unplayable though.
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Well, there's barely any Trucy in 4-1, but yeah, no Trucy in investigations would be very rough. Phoenix has been able to handle investigations alone on rare occasions though, so maybe Apollo could pull it off in a case that isn't bad. Unfortunately, 4-2 and 4-3 are bad, so they need someone like Trucy to make them more bearable.

Although when we're talking about levity and tone, we're generally talking a matter of degrees in Ace Attorney because every case has jokes, running gags, and one-liners. The epic cases are usually more "serious" but even they have a decent amount of humor. I think Phoenix's disbarment hangs over a lot of AJ, kinda like Edgeworth's "death" hangs over a lot of JFA or the threat of losing his badge hangs over AAI2 (and IS-7 kinda does, too), so it makes the tone feel a little heavier at times. And honestly, everyone's life in AJ is crappy. Phoenix is a hobo, Ema failed her exams, Trucy's parents are gone, Apollo loses his boss in the first case and gets stuck working for a talent agency. Nobody gets to be happy. That's why the game feels a bit heavy to me. I know everyone in Ace Attorney has issues because that's the kind of series it is, but AJ felt like it went overboard with it. That's why I think Trucy is more key to keeping the game more upbeat than Kay is to AAI1. She's an irrepressibly bright spot there.

Plus, like I said, I don't think Kay actually contributes that much to AAI1 in that department because she's only really a full partner in E1-3. She spends a good part of E1-5 playing the damsel in distress role, and Edgeworth does a lot of investigating without her. She's a lot better in AAI2, but you also have Ray to help at that point.
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Oh shit just getting to the end of 6-5 investigation day 1.

Oh shit hyyyyyyyype.
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heck yeah 6-5

so good
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best day 1 trial in the series

well, maybe second to 2-4. that might be a new list!
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2-4, 3-5, 6-5

that's the list

technically 5-5 too I guess since it's a one-day trial but I dunno if that should count
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let's go with

1. 2-4
2. 6-5
3. 3-4
4. 1-4
5. 3-5
6. 5-5
7. 4-1
8. 5-2
9. 6-3
10. 4-4
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Yeah, that's a pretty solid list if we're counting one-day cases. I dunno if I'd put 1-4 that high though. I think it gets overshadowed by days 2 and 3, but it's good, too.
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Never agreed with the 2-4 hype, so let's see if this tops 3-5.

I like 5-5 more than most, too.
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day 1 of 1-4 beats day 2, no? that's where von Karma's aura is established. also Maya's best moment, at least in-court. day 1 is great.
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4-4, huh. Maybe if we count the Mason System as part of the trial. Thinking back, there's not too many incredible Trial Day 1s.

I agree with #1-8 though.
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It's kinda hard to define 1-4 in terms of trial days since they're so abbreviated compared to every other game. I think 1-4 Trial 1 and 1-4 Trial 2 are both great in different ways. Trial 1's got von Karma making his incredible first impression that carried him for so long and Maya putting herself into contempt of court. But Trial 2 has the incredible "This trial should only last 3 minutes" thing and Larry's best moment by far in the series.
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I dunno. I think Larry's testimony after the Guilty verdict and Phoenix somehow managing to figure it out one step at a time based on all the contradictions between Larry's and Lotta's/Yogi's testimonies is pretty incredible. Lotta's testimonies are good, as is Maya's outburst, but I think I'd put it behind the other two days. 1-4 works because it feels like a Guilty verdict is only a finger snap away at all times, but day 2 is when it really starts to feel like you can win.
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SSBM_Guy posted...

4-4, huh. Maybe if we count the Mason System as part of the trial. Thinking back, there's not too many incredible Trial Day 1s.

I agree with #1-8 though.

4-4 day 1 is excellent, both the investigation and the trial. Shame about everything after that other than the MASON System investigation.
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I guess I'm open to either opinion on 1-4. I just think that case has amazing trial bits. it probably has the biggest trial > investigation gap in the series.
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Oh yeah, all three trial days are great. I'm mostly just quibbling over placement because I think it's the weakest of the trial days, but it's still really darn good.

I don't think the investigations are that bad. They just suffer from the PW1 problem of having to click through too many screens to get to certain places.
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I guess I'm saying that 1-4 day 1 can be the weakest of the three and still be a top 5 day 1 case.
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4-4 trial 1 isn't good. i'd take day 1 over it with any of the below (that tranny didn't list)

1-2 - first edgeworth trial
1-3 - wendy oldbag vs edgeworth
3-1 - just a really good case all around
3-2 - dat godot
4-2 - you don't have to like the investigation, but stickler is legendary
5-3
6-2

would personally several of the others i didn't list, too
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None of those really deserve consideration for the best day 1s though, except maybe 3-1. There are a lot of good trial days out there so finding good ones isn't hard...!
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5-3 I had at 11. nothing else really qualified for me.
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I'm having to think through what happened on what day for some of these.
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LeonhartFour posted...

None of those really deserve consideration for the best day 1s though, except maybe 3-1. There are a lot of good trial days out there so finding good ones isn't hard...!

more of a point against 4-4 than for any of those in particular, i guess
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4-4 is always the dividing line
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6-5

I thought the end of trial day 1 was going in a dark way, but I was WROOOOOOONG.
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yeah let's avoid talking 6-5 until ltm is done. that's a case that deserves silence.
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It's surprised that this isn't 6-6 now. I mean, it's less of a connection that 5-4 and 5-5 had.
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that's a common thought - I think I like them as a singular case. the real problem is 5-4 and 5-5 are separated, not 6-5's structure.
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day 1 of 6-5 - investigation plus trial together -very, very strong contender for GOAT day
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Woooooh boy this is gonna be one hell of a trial, huh?
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I've been wanting to replay 1-4, 2-4, 3-5. 5-5. 6-5. I'm not happy with how my rankings turned out and I want to experience those in tandem.
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I need to replay the series again soon now that AJHD is out on 3DS.

Might try to tackle the cases in timeline order just for fun.
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