Current Events > We desperately need a post-work society.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Where income is generated by machines and automation at a complete scale.

The alternative is a society where medicine means treating symptoms but not diseases, because a healthy population would put doctors and others in the healthcare industry out of work. Where armchair intellectuals invent all kinds of social injustices, because enjoying the most peaceful time humanity has ever known would make sociology majors redundant.

We are moving towards a society where needing a job means that we will manufacture the problems that those jobs are supposed to address. I'm not so inclined to trust pharmaceuticals and governments tbqh. I don't think they'd ever allow a post-work society to exist, because then they'd lose their passive and obedient cattle.

The sooner we automate the vast majority of the work that needs to be done in order to have a functional society, the sooner we'll all be free of the unnecessary chains that keep us down. Discuss.
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Bullet_Wing posted...

How are people supposed to succeed in the world inside this theoretical society? What is the value of currency and how would one earn it?

imo the way it'll happen is that over time, automation will make us more and more productive. To the point where you can work 5 hours a week and achieve the same standard of living as the one you have now. So currency will still have the same role it does now. I think the market will eventually move us into a post-currency society though, at least on main planets where automation can do mostly everything that needs to be done.

Most people will be content with a good standard of living, whereas anyone who wants more for themselves would be able to work in the remaining jobs.
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It would be interesting to see what humanity does if they are not required to be productive.

On the one hand I think of all the potential creativity and culture that could be made, on the other I think of the stories of multi-generational welfare families who have a complete sense of helplessness and inability to solve things themselves.

I don't think a post-work society would be good for humans in the grand scheme. I do think having tools that make it so we can change the way we work would be great. But not everyone is wired to be able to do thinking or creative type jobs. I have a cousin, just went to his place for thanksgiving today, smart guy, college graduate with a degree in engineering. Went to work at a utility company in project management. Hated it. He now works the lines. Absolutely loves it. Gets to be outside, gets told where to go to solve a problem, gets to hands on work it and solve it.

Now, I am talking in just a strictly utopian, creating a society where the most people have a place to feel useful and fulfilled and not just a way to maximize profits for a few large companies or the most efficient way to reach the most productive short term total.

Of course nearly all the time a revolutionary new technology is introduced old jobs die and new jobs we could hardly expect are created. But it does require some flexibility by the people.
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Haha, Simpletons!
I know exactly how things will work in the future!
I read an article.
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@KILBOTz

Interesting post. The good news is that skilled manual labor is one of the last things to be automated, imo. Things like welding, plumbing, electrical work, carpentry, etc, will always need a human touch. Rebuilding city-scale infrastructure won't be automated any time soon. The same is true of the incoming boom in space exploration and space industries. We will need people to mine asteroids and build colonies on the moon and on Mars. Those jobs will be huge for us.

But in general, people who no longer need to work in order to survive tend to be empowered to start their own businesses and become creative. There was a universal basic income study done in Kenya and the results were very promising.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/magazine/universal-income-global-inequality.html

We will reach the point where we can accomplish universal basic income long before we reach the point where there's no more jobs whatsoever.

@Bullet_Wing

The free market will obligate them to do that. The people automating everything might want to keep more profit for themselves, but when nobody is buying their shit because nobody can afford it at the old prices, they'll need to reduce the price in order to have customers. The wealthy will always need customers, because wealth is generated through commerce. Not just through the wealthy sitting on their asses.

Example: Let's say all retail jobs disappear due to automation. No more cashier jobs, no more floor management or sales jobs, etc. Let's say trucking jobs and transportation jobs disappear too, due to autonomous vehicles. Those two industries are huge in America. So many people being unemployed because of them would necessarily reduce the costs of those goods and services over the long run, for two reasons. 1) It's cheaper to transport and sell goods when human labor is no longer needed and 2) The services and goods will need to be sold at a price at which customers buy
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tfp growth is declining though. not sure if this automation narrative is even true
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Note that the alternatives to these are worrisome. Let's say we adopt universal healthcare and we have the government pay doctors and nurses and hospital staff and hospital construction workers.

What happens as other industries get automated? More workers move to the healthcare industry. What would happen then if the population got healthier? A remaining bastion of unemployment would be rendered redundant. That's worrisome to me because I wouldn't put it past governments and pharmaceuticals to keep people sick or offer only superficial treatment if it means more control and obedience.

In the same way, I wouldn't put it past mega corporations to actually sell a cure for cancer if they could instead sell, for a person's lifetime, something which indefinitely treats symptoms and keeps them going while still sick.
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foreveraIone posted...

tfp is declining though. not sure if this automation narrative is even true

What do you think is going to happen when autonomous trucks and cars replace humans in the trucking and cab businesses?
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

What do you think is going to happen when autonomous trucks and cars replace humans in the trucking and cab businesses?

those people find new jobs?
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foreveraIone posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

What do you think is going to happen when autonomous trucks and cars replace humans in the trucking and cab businesses?

those people find new jobs?

And what happens when retail jobs and warehouse jobs are gone because of automation? We're already seeing Amazon and Walmart gear up for full automation in their warehouses and sales floors.

There's only so many industries you can move into at that point. That same type of automation will come for doctors, accountants, lawyers, software engineers, etc.
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will it really? tfp growth is down. likely automation will just enhance those jobs.
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foreveraIone posted...

will it really? tfp growth is down. likely automation will just enhance those jobs.

Automation is going to completely change how trucking and transportation at large are done. It'll be a complete paradigm shift. The same is true for warehouse / retail work.
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The idiotic "infinite growth" model we have now can't work with that, though
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Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

The idiotic "infinite growth" model we have now can't work with that, though

Ironically, the only way for us to continue growing our economy and output is to automate and expand to other planets and stars. IE, we can continue growing if we make human labor redundant.

Which isn't a bad thing, assuming we can transition correctly.
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Bullet_Wing posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Which isn't a bad thing, assuming we can transition correctly.

I don't have the faith in the free market that you do for that. Nor do I have faith in the government. Human nature always fucks things up. We could be in a total utopia and people would be dissatisfied

What would happen to the wealthy producers and business owners if no one could buy their shit anymore? They'd stop being wealthy. So they will always have the incentive to provide the services/goods at a price people can afford. Unless of course we intervene and fuck things up through legislation that sounds good on paper but that ends up being a nightmare
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