Current Events > So where do you stand on the Masterpiece Cake v. Colorado Civil Rights case?

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UnfairRepresent 12/13/17 3:37:59 PM #51:	shockthemonkey posted... Callixtus posted... UnfairRepresent posted... JE19426 posted... Obviously he was if he offered custom cakes to one group but not the other. Why is this even a serious question? So if a gang of Nazis asked for a Nazi cake, he would be obligated by law to do so? No because Nazis aren't a protected class. Sexual orientation currently isnt considered one but thats really what this case comes down to - should sexual orientation be considered a protected class? i think this case comes down to more than that We're close to literally defining whether or not discrimination in art is protected by the First Amendment. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:892154525] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote><cite>JE19426 posted...</cite> <quote> Obviously he was if he offered custom cakes to one group but not the other. Why is this even a serious question?</quote> So if a gang of Nazis asked for a Nazi cake, he would be obligated by law to do so?</quote> No because Nazis aren't a protected class.</quote> Sexual orientation currently isnt considered one but thats really what this case comes down to - should sexual orientation be considered a protected class?</quote> i think this case comes down to more than that We're close to literally defining whether or not discrimination in art is protected by the First Amendment.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 12/13/17 3:38:16 PM #52:	shockthemonkey posted... Callixtus posted... UnfairRepresent posted... JE19426 posted... Obviously he was if he offered custom cakes to one group but not the other. Why is this even a serious question? So if a gang of Nazis asked for a Nazi cake, he would be obligated by law to do so? No because Nazis aren't a protected class. Sexual orientation currently isnt considered one but thats really what this case comes down to - should sexual orientation be considered a protected class? It is under Colorado law. --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:892154546] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote><cite>JE19426 posted...</cite> <quote> Obviously he was if he offered custom cakes to one group but not the other. Why is this even a serious question?</quote> So if a gang of Nazis asked for a Nazi cake, he would be obligated by law to do so?</quote> No because Nazis aren't a protected class.</quote> Sexual orientation currently isnt considered one but thats really what this case comes down to - should sexual orientation be considered a protected class?</quote> It is under Colorado law.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/13/17 3:38:25 PM #53:	For those against the baker to consider. As the custom cake is an artistic endeavor, what if his artistry includes statements written on the cake that you consider vile? For example, what if he quoted scripture against homosexuality on each cake he was forced to bake? Since he is forced to bake the cake, should he not be entitled to his compensation independent of his final outcome of the cake? He was forced to bake it after all. <cite>C7D posted [p:892154560] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote>For those against the baker to consider. As the custom cake is an artistic endeavor, what if his artistry includes statements written on the cake that you consider vile? For example, what if he quoted scripture against homosexuality on each cake he was forced to bake? Since he is forced to bake the cake, should he not be entitled to his compensation independent of his final outcome of the cake? He was forced to bake it after all.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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prince_leo 12/13/17 3:45:18 PM #55:	for me the crux of the argument is basically "is baking a cake a form of expression, and thus afforded certain freedoms/protections?" the supreme court asked a similar question in the oral arguments about "is baking an art?" and was answered no afaik the couple didn't ask for any kind of special art on the cake that is specifically about gay marriage, they asked for a wedding cake. so without looking deep into the issue I would basically side with the couple as far as the idea that they're doing this just to get a payout, maybe. that doesn't change my above opinion though I also think sexual orientation should be a protected class, but eh --- https://imgur.com/uHUvpSH http://error1355.com/ce/prince_leo.html <cite>prince_leo posted [p:892155005] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote>for me the crux of the argument is basically "is baking a cake a form of expression, and thus afforded certain freedoms/protections?" the supreme court asked a similar question in the oral arguments about "is baking an art?" and was answered no afaik the couple didn't ask for any kind of special art on the cake that is specifically about gay marriage, they asked for a wedding cake. so without looking deep into the issue I would basically side with the couple as far as the idea that they're doing this just to get a payout, maybe. that doesn't change my above opinion though I also think sexual orientation should be a protected class, but eh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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C7D 12/13/17 3:47:33 PM #57:	shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... For those against the baker to consider. As the custom cake is an artistic endeavor, what if his artistry includes statements written on the cake that you consider vile? For example, what if he quoted scripture against homosexuality on each cake he was forced to bake? Since he is forced to bake the cake, should he not be entitled to his compensation independent of his final outcome of the cake? He was forced to bake it after all. Im not sure you understand what custom means here. Oh, you mean a specific cake, a non standard menu item, which is ordered by a couple for the celebration of their wedding ceremony? Like that? At my favorite Mexican restaurant, I know the chef. I often order stuff that is not on the menu. Just because I order it and get it doesnt mean that everyone else has the same opportunity to get it. <cite>C7D posted [p:892155159] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>For those against the baker to consider. As the custom cake is an artistic endeavor, what if his artistry includes statements written on the cake that you consider vile? For example, what if he quoted scripture against homosexuality on each cake he was forced to bake? Since he is forced to bake the cake, should he not be entitled to his compensation independent of his final outcome of the cake? He was forced to bake it after all.</quote> Im not sure you understand what custom means here.</quote> Oh, you mean a specific cake, a non standard menu item, which is ordered by a couple for the celebration of their wedding ceremony? Like that? At my favorite Mexican restaurant, I know the chef. I often order stuff that is not on the menu. Just because I order it and get it doesnt mean that everyone else has the same opportunity to get it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 12/13/17 3:49:43 PM #58:	prince_leo posted... for me the crux of the argument is basically "is baking a cake a form of expression, and thus afforded certain freedoms/protections?" the supreme court asked a similar question in the oral arguments about "is baking an art?" and was answered no afaik the couple didn't ask for any kind of special art on the cake that is specifically about gay marriage, they asked for a wedding cake. so without looking deep into the issue I would basically side with the couple as far as the idea that they're doing this just to get a payout, maybe. that doesn't change my above opinion though I also think sexual orientation should be a protected class, but eh Why shouldn't you defer to the person who is making the cake who says that it is about artistic expression, and who has employed that rationale to refuse making cakes for other groups besides gay couples as well, such as people throwing divorce parties? --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:892155305] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>prince_leo posted...</cite> <quote>for me the crux of the argument is basically "is baking a cake a form of expression, and thus afforded certain freedoms/protections?" the supreme court asked a similar question in the oral arguments about "is baking an art?" and was answered no afaik the couple didn't ask for any kind of special art on the cake that is specifically about gay marriage, they asked for a wedding cake. so without looking deep into the issue I would basically side with the couple as far as the idea that they're doing this just to get a payout, maybe. that doesn't change my above opinion though I also think sexual orientation should be a protected class, but eh</quote> Why shouldn't you defer to the person who is making the cake who says that it is about artistic expression, and who has employed that rationale to refuse making cakes for other groups besides gay couples as well, such as people throwing divorce parties?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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C7D 12/13/17 3:59:03 PM #60:	shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... For those against the baker to consider. As the custom cake is an artistic endeavor, what if his artistry includes statements written on the cake that you consider vile? For example, what if he quoted scripture against homosexuality on each cake he was forced to bake? Since he is forced to bake the cake, should he not be entitled to his compensation independent of his final outcome of the cake? He was forced to bake it after all. Im not sure you understand what custom means here. Oh, you mean a specific cake, a non standard menu item, which is ordered by a couple for the celebration of their wedding ceremony? Like that? At my favorite Mexican restaurant, I know the chef. I often order stuff that is not on the menu. Just because I order it and get it doesnt mean that everyone else has the same opportunity to get it. This is a weird tangent youre going on, Im not sure how its relevant. Food as an art form should be a form of protected speech. Are artists not allowed a choice on who commissions a painting or sculpture from them? My chef friend can choose to make my custom order for me only. If a homosexual couple came in and saw me eating my meal, is it fair to allow them to sue him when he doesnt make the same meal for them? This is absolutely nuts in my mind. <cite>C7D posted [p:892155920] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>For those against the baker to consider. As the custom cake is an artistic endeavor, what if his artistry includes statements written on the cake that you consider vile? For example, what if he quoted scripture against homosexuality on each cake he was forced to bake? Since he is forced to bake the cake, should he not be entitled to his compensation independent of his final outcome of the cake? He was forced to bake it after all.</quote> Im not sure you understand what custom means here.</quote> Oh, you mean a specific cake, a non standard menu item, which is ordered by a couple for the celebration of their wedding ceremony? Like that? At my favorite Mexican restaurant, I know the chef. I often order stuff that is not on the menu. Just because I order it and get it doesnt mean that everyone else has the same opportunity to get it.</quote> This is a weird tangent youre going on, Im not sure how its relevant.</quote> Food as an art form should be a form of protected speech. Are artists not allowed a choice on who commissions a painting or sculpture from them? My chef friend can choose to make my custom order for me only. If a homosexual couple came in and saw me eating my meal, is it fair to allow them to sue him when he doesnt make the same meal for them? This is absolutely nuts in my mind.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paragon21XX 12/13/17 4:09:03 PM #61:	UnfairRepresent posted... Callixtus posted... That's a poor analogy. The baker is not refusing to sell a particular good So the baker is selling custom cakes to the couple? Like he does for everyone who is not gay? Only for events that he is willing to attach his name to in general (birthdays, graduations, retirement parties), but never for those he cannot assist commemorating in good conscience (Halloween parties, lewd bachelor/ette parties, same-sex weddings/anniversaries, divorce celebrations). Essentially, he sees his cake decoration as another form of his artistic self-expression (which he argues should be immune from all government regulation), and he simply won't do it for events he does not support by his own private set of morals. --- Hmm... <cite>Paragon21XX posted [p:892156535] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote> That's a poor analogy. The baker is not refusing to sell a particular good </quote> So the baker is selling custom cakes to the couple? Like he does for everyone who is not gay?</quote> Only for events that he is willing to attach his name to in general (birthdays, graduations, retirement parties), but never for those he cannot assist commemorating in good conscience (Halloween parties, lewd bachelor/ette parties, same-sex weddings/anniversaries, divorce celebrations). Essentially, he sees his cake decoration as another form of his artistic self-expression (which he argues should be immune from all government regulation), and he simply won't do it for events he does not support by his own private set of morals.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Prestoff 12/13/17 4:20:15 PM #62:	The baker is in the right in my opinion --- It's what all true warriors strive for! <cite>Prestoff posted [p:892157210] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote>The baker is in the right in my opinion</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Darmik 12/13/17 4:34:29 PM #64:	If you're refusing to bake the cake because of the customer you're baking the cake for it's discrimination If it's about the cake design you're baking it isn't. It doesn't really need to be more complicated than that. If they would bake that same exact cake for a straight couple then they're discriminating. Presumably they wouldn't bake a Nazi cake for anyone so that's not a fair comparison. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:892158046] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote>If you're refusing to bake the cake because of the customer you're baking the cake for it's discrimination If it's about the cake design you're baking it isn't. It doesn't really need to be more complicated than that. If they would bake that same exact cake for a straight couple then they're discriminating. Presumably they wouldn't bake a Nazi cake for anyone so that's not a fair comparison.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/13/17 4:40:22 PM #65:	shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... For those against the baker to consider. As the custom cake is an artistic endeavor, what if his artistry includes statements written on the cake that you consider vile? For example, what if he quoted scripture against homosexuality on each cake he was forced to bake? Since he is forced to bake the cake, should he not be entitled to his compensation independent of his final outcome of the cake? He was forced to bake it after all. Im not sure you understand what custom means here. Oh, you mean a specific cake, a non standard menu item, which is ordered by a couple for the celebration of their wedding ceremony? Like that? At my favorite Mexican restaurant, I know the chef. I often order stuff that is not on the menu. Just because I order it and get it doesnt mean that everyone else has the same opportunity to get it. This is a weird tangent youre going on, Im not sure how its relevant. Food as an art form should be a form of protected speech. Are artists not allowed a choice on who commissions a painting or sculpture from them? My chef friend can choose to make my custom order for me only. If a homosexual couple came in and saw me eating my meal, is it fair to allow them to sue him when he doesnt make the same meal for them? This is absolutely nuts in my mind. Dont take custom orders from anyone then. This just sounds like an attack against anyone who only tolerates rather than accepts marriage equality. I.E. thought policing. <cite>C7D posted [p:892158385] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>For those against the baker to consider. As the custom cake is an artistic endeavor, what if his artistry includes statements written on the cake that you consider vile? For example, what if he quoted scripture against homosexuality on each cake he was forced to bake? Since he is forced to bake the cake, should he not be entitled to his compensation independent of his final outcome of the cake? He was forced to bake it after all.</quote> Im not sure you understand what custom means here.</quote> Oh, you mean a specific cake, a non standard menu item, which is ordered by a couple for the celebration of their wedding ceremony? Like that? At my favorite Mexican restaurant, I know the chef. I often order stuff that is not on the menu. Just because I order it and get it doesnt mean that everyone else has the same opportunity to get it.</quote> This is a weird tangent youre going on, Im not sure how its relevant.</quote> Food as an art form should be a form of protected speech. Are artists not allowed a choice on who commissions a painting or sculpture from them? My chef friend can choose to make my custom order for me only. If a homosexual couple came in and saw me eating my meal, is it fair to allow them to sue him when he doesnt make the same meal for them? This is absolutely nuts in my mind.</quote> Dont take custom orders from anyone then.</quote> This just sounds like an attack against anyone who only tolerates rather than accepts marriage equality. I.E. thought policing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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C7D 12/13/17 4:55:10 PM #67:	shockthemonkey posted... How? Groups attend business they know do not support their positions. Then, whenever this is verified, they do everything in their power to either force them to think like they do or financially ruin them. This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses. <cite>C7D posted [p:892159234] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote> How?</quote> Groups attend business they know do not support their positions. Then, whenever this is verified, they do everything in their power to either force them to think like they do or financially ruin them. This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 12/13/17 4:57:47 PM #68:	C7D posted... This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses. Why should people shop at a bakery that discriminates? Hell people often argue that these cases aren't necessary since the free market will shut them down on its own. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:892159384] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses.</quote> Why should people shop at a bakery that discriminates? Hell people often argue that these cases aren't necessary since the free market will shut them down on its own.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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C7D 12/13/17 5:03:04 PM #70:	Darmik posted... C7D posted... This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses. Why should people shop at a bakery that discriminates? Hell people often argue that these cases aren't necessary since the free market will shut them down on its own. They lost the 40% because their entire wedding cake business was affected. It was affected not because people wanted to stop buying cakes but rather because the state said they were going to keep levying penalties against them until they started making custom gay marriage wedding cakes. <cite>C7D posted [p:892159704] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses.</quote> Why should people shop at a bakery that discriminates? Hell people often argue that these cases aren't necessary since the free market will shut them down on its own.</quote> They lost the 40% because their entire wedding cake business was affected. It was affected not because people wanted to stop buying cakes but rather because the state said they were going to keep levying penalties against them until they started making custom gay marriage wedding cakes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/13/17 5:04:05 PM #71:	shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... shockthemonkey posted... How? Groups attend business they know do not support their positions. Then, whenever this is verified, they do everything in their power to either force them to think like they do or financially ruin them. This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses. Youre going in weird directions here. Dont take custom orders from anyone unless youll take custom orders from everyone. Essentially removing Christians from the baking marketplace... whats the next industry? <cite>C7D posted [p:892159759] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote> How?</quote> Groups attend business they know do not support their positions. Then, whenever this is verified, they do everything in their power to either force them to think like they do or financially ruin them. This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses.</quote> Youre going in weird directions here. Dont take custom orders from anyone unless youll take custom orders from everyone.</quote> Essentially removing Christians from the baking marketplace... whats the next industry?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JE19426 12/13/17 5:04:14 PM #72:	C7D posted... They lost the 40% because their entire wedding cake business was affected. It was affected not because people wanted to stop buying cakes but rather because the state said they were going to keep levying penalties against them until they started making custom gay marriage wedding cakes. I don't understand. They lost 40% of sales but they still have the same number of sales? <cite>JE19426 posted [p:892159767] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>They lost the 40% because their entire wedding cake business was affected. It was affected not because people wanted to stop buying cakes but rather because the state said they were going to keep levying penalties against them until they started making custom gay marriage wedding cakes. </quote> I don't understand. They lost 40% of sales but they still have the same number of sales?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/13/17 5:05:36 PM #73:	JE19426 posted... C7D posted... They lost the 40% because their entire wedding cake business was affected. It was affected not because people wanted to stop buying cakes but rather because the state said they were going to keep levying penalties against them until they started making custom gay marriage wedding cakes. I don't understand. They lost 40% of sales but they still have the same number of sales? Sales are down 40% because custom wedding cakes accounted for 40% of their overall sales before the state told them to stop making them. <cite>C7D posted [p:892159838] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>JE19426 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>They lost the 40% because their entire wedding cake business was affected. It was affected not because people wanted to stop buying cakes but rather because the state said they were going to keep levying penalties against them until they started making custom gay marriage wedding cakes. </quote> I don't understand. They lost 40% of sales but they still have the same number of sales?</quote> Sales are down 40% because custom wedding cakes accounted for 40% of their overall sales before the state told them to stop making them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JE19426 12/13/17 5:06:51 PM #75:	C7D posted... Sales are down 40% because custom wedding cakes accounted for 40% of their overall sales before the state told them to stop making them. Ok, that makes more sense. Although it contradicts your previous statement that the state told them to make gay wedding cake. <cite>JE19426 posted [p:892159899] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>Sales are down 40% because custom wedding cakes accounted for 40% of their overall sales before the state told them to stop making them. </quote> Ok, that makes more sense. Although it contradicts your previous statement that the state told them to make gay wedding cake.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/13/17 5:09:40 PM #76:	shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... shockthemonkey posted... How? Groups attend business they know do not support their positions. Then, whenever this is verified, they do everything in their power to either force them to think like they do or financially ruin them. This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses. Youre going in weird directions here. Dont take custom orders from anyone unless youll take custom orders from everyone. Essentially removing Christians from the baking marketplace... whats the next industry? That doesnt make any sense. As a Christian, I believe that marriage is ordained by God. God considers homosexuality to be a sin, so he cannot ordain homosexual marriage. By participating in a gay marriage, the baker is participating in their sin... ie a sin by proxy. In good conscience, every time the baker does this, he is sinning, so he stopped selling cakes. <cite>C7D posted [p:892160047] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote> How?</quote> Groups attend business they know do not support their positions. Then, whenever this is verified, they do everything in their power to either force them to think like they do or financially ruin them. This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses.</quote> Youre going in weird directions here. Dont take custom orders from anyone unless youll take custom orders from everyone.</quote> Essentially removing Christians from the baking marketplace... whats the next industry?</quote> That doesnt make any sense.</quote> As a Christian, I believe that marriage is ordained by God. God considers homosexuality to be a sin, so he cannot ordain homosexual marriage. By participating in a gay marriage, the baker is participating in their sin... ie a sin by proxy. In good conscience, every time the baker does this, he is sinning, so he stopped selling cakes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/13/17 5:12:52 PM #77:	JE19426 posted... C7D posted... Sales are down 40% because custom wedding cakes accounted for 40% of their overall sales before the state told them to stop making them. Ok, that makes more sense. Although it contradicts your previous statement that the state told them to make gay wedding cake. In a Christians mind, both statements are equivalent. <cite>C7D posted [p:892160215] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>JE19426 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>Sales are down 40% because custom wedding cakes accounted for 40% of their overall sales before the state told them to stop making them. </quote> Ok, that makes more sense. Although it contradicts your previous statement that the state told them to make gay wedding cake.</quote> In a Christians mind, both statements are equivalent.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JE19426 12/13/17 5:14:53 PM #78:	C7D posted... In a Christians mind, both statements are equivalent. Then Christians must be crazy. <cite>JE19426 posted [p:892160318] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>In a Christians mind, both statements are equivalent. </quote> Then Christians must be crazy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 12/13/17 5:16:19 PM #79:	C7D posted... As a Christian, I believe that marriage is ordained by God. God considers homosexuality to be a sin, so he cannot ordain homosexual marriage. By participating in a gay marriage, the baker is participating in their sin... ie a sin by proxy. In good conscience, every time the baker does this, he is sinning, so he stopped selling cakes. So if I buy a Christian bakery cake for an orgy are they also committing sin by proxy? --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:892160408] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>As a Christian, I believe that marriage is ordained by God. God considers homosexuality to be a sin, so he cannot ordain homosexual marriage. By participating in a gay marriage, the baker is participating in their sin... ie a sin by proxy. In good conscience, every time the baker does this, he is sinning, so he stopped selling cakes.</quote> So if I buy a Christian bakery cake for an orgy are they also committing sin by proxy?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheCyborgNinja 12/13/17 5:18:33 PM #80:	Private businesses can refuse to do anything. If enough people dont like it, the market will respond and theyll go bust... Suing over this instead of just finding a new cake store makes everyone involved look like assholes... --- "message parlor" ? do you mean the post office ? - SlayerX888 <cite>TheCyborgNinja posted [p:892160561] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote>Private businesses can refuse to do anything. If enough people dont like it, the market will respond and theyll go bust... Suing over this instead of just finding a new cake store makes everyone involved look like assholes...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EnragedSlith 12/13/17 5:19:09 PM #81:	Religious freedom trumps in this case because I think its the only right being infringed upon, and I hope its what the courts decide. But its a pretty bad move on the businesses part. --- You gotta fly like an eagle and not.b... be like a turkey <cite>EnragedSlith posted [p:892160604] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote>Religious freedom trumps in this case because I think its the only right being infringed upon, and I hope its what the courts decide. But its a pretty bad move on the businesses part.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#82	Post #82 was unavailable or deleted.
gunplagirl 12/14/17 6:14:30 AM #83:	Even if they were just looking for a payout, the only reason they would have a case is if the bakery broke the law Which they did And the state would levy fines against them Moral of the story, if you can't operate a business without breaking the law then you don't have room to complain when the victims of your crimes seek compensation --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:892191635] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote>Even if they were just looking for a payout, the only reason they would have a case is if the bakery broke the law Which they did And the state would levy fines against them Moral of the story, if you can't operate a business without breaking the law then you don't have room to complain when the victims of your crimes seek compensation</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
itachi15243 12/14/17 6:22:05 AM #84:	The bakery broke the law and brought it on themselves It would be the same result if Muslims, atheists, LGBT, or anyone else denied to bake a wedding cake if it was for a christian wedding. Except the christians and those in defense of them would do a complete flip on it --- I do drawings and stuff https://www.fiverr.com/blueblitz <cite>itachi15243 posted [p:892191794] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote>The bakery broke the law and brought it on themselves It would be the same result if Muslims, atheists, LGBT, or anyone else denied to bake a wedding cake if it was for a christian wedding. Except the christians and those in defense of them would do a complete flip on it</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/14/17 7:12:40 AM #85:	Did they break the law tho --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:892192798] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote>Did they break the law tho</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JE19426 12/14/17 7:32:31 AM #86:	UnfairRepresent posted... Did they break the law tho Why wasn't that a question you asked in your OP? <cite>JE19426 posted [p:892193242] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Did they break the law tho</quote> Why wasn't that a question you asked in your OP?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/14/17 7:43:17 AM #87:	Darmik posted... C7D posted... As a Christian, I believe that marriage is ordained by God. God considers homosexuality to be a sin, so he cannot ordain homosexual marriage. By participating in a gay marriage, the baker is participating in their sin... ie a sin by proxy. In good conscience, every time the baker does this, he is sinning, so he stopped selling cakes. So if I buy a Christian bakery cake for an orgy are they also committing sin by proxy? I am unfamiliar with an orgy cake. If the bakers work is knowingly enabling you to sin, the baker is not allowed to participate, I.e. sell you an orgy cake. 1st Timothy 5:22 <cite>C7D posted [p:892193502] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>As a Christian, I believe that marriage is ordained by God. God considers homosexuality to be a sin, so he cannot ordain homosexual marriage. By participating in a gay marriage, the baker is participating in their sin... ie a sin by proxy. In good conscience, every time the baker does this, he is sinning, so he stopped selling cakes.</quote> So if I buy a Christian bakery cake for an orgy are they also committing sin by proxy?</quote> I am unfamiliar with an orgy cake. If the bakers work is knowingly enabling you to sin, the baker is not allowed to participate, I.e. sell you an orgy cake. 1st Timothy 5:22</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/14/17 7:52:42 AM #88:	shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... shockthemonkey posted... C7D posted... shockthemonkey posted... How? Groups attend business they know do not support their positions. Then, whenever this is verified, they do everything in their power to either force them to think like they do or financially ruin them. This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses. Youre going in weird directions here. Dont take custom orders from anyone unless youll take custom orders from everyone. Essentially removing Christians from the baking marketplace... whats the next industry? That doesnt make any sense. As a Christian, I believe that marriage is ordained by God. God considers homosexuality to be a sin, so he cannot ordain homosexual marriage. By participating in a gay marriage, the baker is participating in their sin... ie a sin by proxy. In good conscience, every time the baker does this, he is sinning, so he stopped selling cakes. Youre not following any logical train of thought. Which part? Marriage is ordained by God Genesis 2:18-25, God does not like homosexuality Romans 1:26-27, You should not enable the sin of others 1st Timothy 5:22. The Bible is the guidebook, the moral compass, of the Christian. You are asking the baker to exchange his religion, his guidebook for money. The Bible has an answer for that one too. Matthew 6:24. In the case of making money versus serving God, we have to choose following our guidebook. <cite>C7D posted [p:892193772] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote> How?</quote> Groups attend business they know do not support their positions. Then, whenever this is verified, they do everything in their power to either force them to think like they do or financially ruin them. This bakery has lost about 40% of its sales since this lawsuit was initially filed because it refuses to cowtow to the other side. I hope they not only win but receive punitive damages for their losses.</quote> Youre going in weird directions here. Dont take custom orders from anyone unless youll take custom orders from everyone.</quote> Essentially removing Christians from the baking marketplace... whats the next industry?</quote> That doesnt make any sense.</quote> As a Christian, I believe that marriage is ordained by God. God considers homosexuality to be a sin, so he cannot ordain homosexual marriage. By participating in a gay marriage, the baker is participating in their sin... ie a sin by proxy. In good conscience, every time the baker does this, he is sinning, so he stopped selling cakes.</quote> Youre not following any logical train of thought.</quote> Which part? Marriage is ordained by God Genesis 2:18-25, God does not like homosexuality Romans 1:26-27, You should not enable the sin of others 1st Timothy 5:22. The Bible is the guidebook, the moral compass, of the Christian. You are asking the baker to exchange his religion, his guidebook for money. The Bible has an answer for that one too. Matthew 6:24. In the case of making money versus serving God, we have to choose following our guidebook.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/14/17 7:55:46 AM #89:	itachi15243 posted... The bakery broke the law and brought it on themselves It would be the same result if Muslims, atheists, LGBT, or anyone else denied to bake a wedding cake if it was for a christian wedding. Except the christians and those in defense of them would do a complete flip on it Are you that arrogant? Hint, we would rather our Christian brothers and sisters succeed. We would find someone who would gladly make our cake. It is not unusual to find a baker in a congregation. I choose to do business with people who attend my church. <cite>C7D posted [p:892193850] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>itachi15243 posted...</cite> <quote>The bakery broke the law and brought it on themselves It would be the same result if Muslims, atheists, LGBT, or anyone else denied to bake a wedding cake if it was for a christian wedding. Except the christians and those in defense of them would do a complete flip on it</quote> Are you that arrogant? Hint, we would rather our Christian brothers and sisters succeed. We would find someone who would gladly make our cake. It is not unusual to find a baker in a congregation. I choose to do business with people who attend my church.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JE19426 12/14/17 7:56:00 AM #90:	C7D posted... Marriage is ordained by God Genesis 2:18-25, I'm not seeing how Genesis 2:18-25 means marriage is ordained by God. <cite>JE19426 posted [p:892193854] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>Marriage is ordained by God Genesis 2:18-25,</quote> I'm not seeing how Genesis 2:18-25 means marriage is ordained by God.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TriforceofPlot 12/14/17 7:57:22 AM #91:	If a feminist did this to a guy, all you people would be screeching at the top of your lungs. Not hating. just pointing out the hypocrisy. --- I'm that piece in the middle that does stupid stuff like randomly giving Ganon a piece when he needs a way to not die. <cite>TriforceofPlot posted [p:892193893] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote>If a feminist did this to a guy, all you people would be screeching at the top of your lungs. Not hating. just pointing out the hypocrisy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/14/17 8:03:30 AM #92:	JE19426 posted... C7D posted... Marriage is ordained by God Genesis 2:18-25, I'm not seeing how Genesis 2:18-25 means marriage is ordained by God. Your background? These passages are pretty much universally regarded as the first marriage within every Christian denomination with whom I have ever spoken. Verse 24 is pretty clear I think. Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall become united and cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24 AMP) <cite>C7D posted [p:892194071] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>JE19426 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>Marriage is ordained by God Genesis 2:18-25,</quote> I'm not seeing how Genesis 2:18-25 means marriage is ordained by God.</quote> Your background? These passages are pretty much universally regarded as the first marriage within every Christian denomination with whom I have ever spoken. Verse 24 is pretty clear I think. Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall become united and cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24 AMP)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JE19426 12/14/17 8:05:02 AM #93:	C7D posted... These passages are pretty much universally regarded as the first marriage within every Christian denomination with whom I have ever spoken. Verse 24 is pretty clear I think. Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall become united and cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24 AMP) How does that say God Ordains every marriage? <cite>JE19426 posted [p:892194115] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>These passages are pretty much universally regarded as the first marriage within every Christian denomination with whom I have ever spoken. Verse 24 is pretty clear I think. Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall become united and cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24 AMP) </quote> How does that say God Ordains every marriage?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/14/17 8:17:40 AM #94:	JE19426 posted... C7D posted... These passages are pretty much universally regarded as the first marriage within every Christian denomination with whom I have ever spoken. Verse 24 is pretty clear I think. Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall become united and cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24 AMP) How does that say God Ordains every marriage? Youre intentionally being obtuse. In the words of Jesus Matthew 19: 4-5 4 Havent you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female,5 and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? <cite>C7D posted [p:892194473] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>JE19426 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>These passages are pretty much universally regarded as the first marriage within every Christian denomination with whom I have ever spoken. Verse 24 is pretty clear I think. Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall become united and cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24 AMP) </quote> How does that say God Ordains every marriage?</quote> Youre intentionally being obtuse. In the words of Jesus Matthew 19: 4-5 4 Havent you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female,5 and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JE19426 12/14/17 8:23:46 AM #95:	C7D posted... Youre intentionally being obtuse. No, I'm not. You are failing to answer my question. In the words of Jesus Matthew 19: 4-5 4 Havent you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female,5 and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? That's not Genesis 2:18-25 and I still don't see how that say God ordains all marriages. <cite>JE19426 posted [p:892194679] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>Youre intentionally being obtuse.</quote> No, I'm not. You are failing to answer my question. <quote>In the words of Jesus Matthew 19: 4-5 4 Havent you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female,5 and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? </quote> That's not Genesis 2:18-25 and I still don't see how that say God ordains all marriages.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/14/17 8:26:48 AM #96:	JE19426 posted... C7D posted... Youre intentionally being obtuse. No, I'm not. You are failing to answer my question. In the words of Jesus Matthew 19: 4-5 4 Havent you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female,5 and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? That's not Genesis 2:18-25 and I still don't see how that say God ordains all marriages. Because you dont want to... you can lead a horse to the watering trough, but you cannot make him drink it. I shake the dust from my feet. Good day. <cite>C7D posted [p:892194783] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>JE19426 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>Youre intentionally being obtuse.</quote> No, I'm not. You are failing to answer my question. <quote>In the words of Jesus Matthew 19: 4-5 4 Havent you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female,5 and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? </quote> That's not Genesis 2:18-25 and I still don't see how that say God ordains all marriages.</quote> Because you dont want to... you can lead a horse to the watering trough, but you cannot make him drink it. I shake the dust from my feet. Good day.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/14/17 8:27:00 AM #97:	Lol old testament --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:892194789] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote>Lol old testament</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JE19426 12/14/17 8:29:44 AM #98:	C7D posted... Because you dont want to Don't want to what? You aren't making any sense, are you high or something? <cite>JE19426 posted [p:892194880] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>Because you dont want to</quote> Don't want to what? You aren't making any sense, are you high or something?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/14/17 8:30:30 AM #99:	UnfairRepresent posted... Lol old testament Matthew is in the New Testament. Jesus refers to the Old Testament event in the verse I quoted. You dont believe it anyway. <cite>C7D posted [p:892194903] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Lol old testament</quote> Matthew is in the New Testament. Jesus refers to the Old Testament event in the verse I quoted. You dont believe it anyway.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/14/17 8:37:06 AM #100:	JE19426 posted... C7D posted... Because you dont want to Don't want to what? You aren't making any sense, are you high or something? I provided two witnesses to the God ordained marriage. You dont believe either of them. You dont want to believe them. You are asking for me to show you a scripture in the Bible that says God always does this. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. <cite>C7D posted [p:892195113] in So where d... [t:76087530]...</cite> <quote><cite>JE19426 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>Because you dont want to</quote> Don't want to what? You aren't making any sense, are you high or something?</quote> I provided two witnesses to the God ordained marriage. You dont believe either of them. You dont want to believe them. You are asking for me to show you a scripture in the Bible that says God always does this. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > So where do you stand on the Masterpiece Cake v. Colorado Civil Rights case? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > So where do you stand on the Masterpiece Cake v. Colorado Civil Rights case?