Poll of the Day > Y'know by cutting taxes you reduce services, right?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's not about how much you get cut, it's about the total amount of cash in the system... of which, much less is from the top and with this cut, much more is on you.
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You're aware that the majority of services don't actually go to the people who pay taxes, right? >_> These are federal taxes, not state or local ones -- and even state and local ones go more towards entitlements than anything. It's how CT can have one of the highest gas taxes in the country yet simultaneously have the worst-maintained roads and 3rd-worst bridges.
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Zeus posted...

You're aware that the majority of services don't actually go to the people who pay taxes, right? >_> These are federal taxes, not state or local ones -- and even state and local ones go more towards entitlements than anything. It's how CT can have one of the highest gas taxes in the country yet simultaneously have the worst-maintained roads and 3rd-worst bridges.

What, your taxes aren't represented locally? You're legally allowed to war over that.
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Considering the government's track record with handling money, I don't think anyone really thinks giving them more money will produce better results.
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And quite a few people would be extremely happy with that because those people feel that many of the services need not exist and/or are services they would rather not pay for.
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Lokarin posted...

Zeus posted...

You're aware that the majority of services don't actually go to the people who pay taxes, right? >_> These are federal taxes, not state or local ones -- and even state and local ones go more towards entitlements than anything. It's how CT can have one of the highest gas taxes in the country yet simultaneously have the worst-maintained roads and 3rd-worst bridges.

What, your taxes aren't represented locally? You're legally allowed to war over that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion

Rasmoh posted...

Considering the government's track record with handling money, I don't think anyone really thinks giving them more money will produce better results.

Pretty much, especially considering how much gets consumed by the system itself.
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So you're saying people prefer mismanagement over change
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Good. Privatize that shit. Competition means higher affordability, availability, and quality.

Noop_Noop posted...

Good. Privatize that shit. Competition means higher affordability, availability, and quality.

Hahah.

Lokarin posted...

So you're saying people prefer mismanagement over change

Those protesting the tax changes do, apparently. Granted, a lot of the loudest protestors are also gaming the system to get far more out of it than they pay in (if they pay anything at all), so there's also a vested interest. Honestly, the current system is all kinds of broken and often pays healthy, functioning individuals to not work while not making sure that the non-functioning individuals are getting services to turn them functional. You have people on benefits for anxiety-related issues who aren't even seeing a shrink. How does anybody expect that situation to improve? Something like mental disability benefits *should* be tied into counseling requirements which that state should be providing more of anyway.
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There's so much waste and unnecessary bullcrap that you could probably cut taxes a whole lot more and no one would lose anything of value or importance. Like how thousands of federal employees lost their jobs when that government shut-down happened a couple of years ago, and literally nobody noticed or cared.
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Rasmoh posted...

Considering the government's track record with handling money, I don't think anyone really thinks giving them more money will produce better results.

Democrats do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA9XQB12Q4U

We should perforate all taxes going forward so we can gently pull them apart and not have to go to the trouble of cutting them
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Noop_Noop posted...

Good. Privatize that shit. Competition means higher affordability, availability, and quality.

lmfao
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VeeVees posted...

Noop_Noop posted...

Good. Privatize that shit. Competition means higher affordability, availability, and quality.

lmfao

tbh, taking affordability off the table (since the government subsidizes some things to put them below the actual market cost, with people paying on and through the backend -- other non-subsidized things it's just plain more expensive on), the private market tends to offer greater availability and/or quality. Public education is a great example, given the low quality provided to students (and high overall price to taxpayers). However, when you have a monopoly (including when the government is the only provider), quality *tends* to go down since there's no competition. Case-in-point would be ISPs.
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yeah whatever bread crumbs the poor get from this will be offset by having to pay more for everything else. plus the rates on the poor will go back up over time.

the rich are looting the country, all these corps are going to put the money into buy backs and artificially inflate the market, explode the economy, and the rich will be right there to pick up the pieces.

Zeus posted...

VeeVees posted...

Noop_Noop posted...

Good. Privatize that shit. Competition means higher affordability, availability, and quality.

lmfao

tbh, taking affordability off the table (since the government subsidizes some things to put them below the actual market cost, with people paying on and through the backend -- other non-subsidized things it's just plain more expensive on), the private market tends to offer greater availability and/or quality. Public education is a great example, given the low quality provided to students (and high overall price to taxpayers). However, when you have a monopoly (including when the government is the only provider), quality *tends* to go down since there's no competition. Case-in-point would be ISPs.

depends on the industry. the reason single payer healthcare works is because the government can negotiate with providers better than anyone else. they can say "look, I need someone to provide hip replacements for the ENTIRE united states, and I want the best hip replacement for the lowest cost". no one else has that kind of buying power.

Lol ^ hard pill to swallow when almost a dozen major companies announced bonus' and or pay raises for their workers

The rates only go back up if the 2024 candidates want it to

anondum posted...

the rich are looting the country, all these corps are going to put the money into buy backs and artificially inflate the market, explode the economy, and the rich will be right there to pick up the pieces.

...what? That's not even how buybacks work.

anondum posted...

Zeus posted...

VeeVees posted...

Noop_Noop posted...

Good. Privatize that shit. Competition means higher affordability, availability, and quality.

lmfao

tbh, taking affordability off the table (since the government subsidizes some things to put them below the actual market cost, with people paying on and through the backend -- other non-subsidized things it's just plain more expensive on), the private market tends to offer greater availability and/or quality. Public education is a great example, given the low quality provided to students (and high overall price to taxpayers). However, when you have a monopoly (including when the government is the only provider), quality *tends* to go down since there's no competition. Case-in-point would be ISPs.

depends on the industry. the reason single payer healthcare works is because the government can negotiate with providers better than anyone else. they can say "look, I need someone to provide hip replacements for the ENTIRE united states, and I want the best hip replacement for the lowest cost". no one else has that kind of buying power.

Eh, there can certainly be benefits to monopolies when it comes to negotiating power. However, among other things, keep in mind that can be offset by a shrinking number of suppliers -- ie, if the government is only buying hip replacements from one place then eventually it becomes the only supplier and effectively has a monopoly of its own. Plus monopolies themselves are less concerned about operational inefficiencies because they're the only game in town, which allows inefficiencies to grow since those costs are just passed along to the consumers anyway -- either in the form of increased prices (or taxes) or lowered quality. And, just like forcing suppliers to do what you want, monopolies allow you to force customers to do what you want. You could triple your rates and their choices would be to pay up or go without. And keep in mind that when governments take over transit systems, one of the first things they usually do is increase rates.
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Actually we run on a deficit so what we spend is somewhat independent from what we pay for. Our debt goes up though and it's maintainable at the moment
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Guys I am a genius at money and even have a degree in US dollars

The way to fix the economy is to move all our banking systems to the international space station, inflation cannot occur in a vacuum and money would trickle down through the atmosphere so taxes would be unnecessary.
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JOExHIGASHI posted...

Actually we run on a deficit so what we spend is somewhat independent from what we pay for. Our debt goes up though and it's maintainable at the moment

I should point out that it's possible to run on a surplus rather than a deficit =p
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not__shawn__z posted...

Lol ^ hard pill to swallow when almost a dozen major companies announced bonus' and or pay raises for their workers

The rates only go back up if the 2024 candidates want it to

if you look at those announcements all that stuff was already going to be done regardless of if this bill passed or not. that $15 an hour thing? it's part of a union deal to raise the wages to $17 an hour. so you should be thanking the union... oh wait unions are evil nevermind.

most of those companies already announced they are using the money for buybacks

Lokarin posted...

So you're saying people prefer mismanagement over change

The AMERICAN WAY cannot be changed (even if it's terrible and sucks)
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Zeus posted...

However, when you have a monopoly (including when the government is the only provider), quality *tends* to go down since there's no competition. Case-in-point would be ISPs.

Internet quality being low isn't just a consequence of a lack of competition, it's a consequence of how profitable it is to keep consumers used to poor quality service. It's very easy for ISP's to offer periodic upgrades when they're only offering a fraction of the performance they're actually capable of, which they continue doing not just because of a lack of competition, but because of collusion within the oligopoly to maximize everyone's profits. Toss in the conflict of interests between Internet provision and cable, and you've got a recipe for awful service.
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adjl posted...

Zeus posted...

However, when you have a monopoly (including when the government is the only provider), quality *tends* to go down since there's no competition. Case-in-point would be ISPs.

Internet quality being low isn't just a consequence of a lack of competition, it's a consequence of how profitable it is to keep consumers used to poor quality service. It's very easy for ISP's to offer periodic upgrades when they're only offering a fraction of the performance they're actually capable of, which they continue doing not just because of a lack of competition, but because of collusion within the oligopoly to maximize everyone's profits. Toss in the conflict of interests between Internet provision and cable, and you've got a recipe for awful service.

However, competition wouldn't allow them to go that route. Collusion directly allows them to offer shittier service and pocket more money themselves.
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anondum posted...

not__shawn__z posted...

Lol ^ hard pill to swallow when almost a dozen major companies announced bonus' and or pay raises for their workers

The rates only go back up if the 2024 candidates want it to

if you look at those announcements all that stuff was already going to be done regardless of if this bill passed or not. that $15 an hour thing? it's part of a union deal to raise the wages to $17 an hour. so you should be thanking the union... oh wait unions are evil nevermind.

most of those companies already announced they are using the money for buybacks

I literally got an email at work saying 'because of the tax cuts, we are providing a thousand dollar bonus to all employees, and increasing our company minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour'

I am by no means a Trump fan, but the mental gymnastics here are ridiculous.
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BADoglick posted...

anondum posted...

not__shawn__z posted...

Lol ^ hard pill to swallow when almost a dozen major companies announced bonus' and or pay raises for their workers

The rates only go back up if the 2024 candidates want it to

if you look at those announcements all that stuff was already going to be done regardless of if this bill passed or not. that $15 an hour thing? it's part of a union deal to raise the wages to $17 an hour. so you should be thanking the union... oh wait unions are evil nevermind.

most of those companies already announced they are using the money for buybacks

I literally got an email at work saying 'because of the tax cuts, we are providing a thousand dollar bonus to all employees, and increasing our company minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour'

I am by no means a Trump fan, but the mental gymnastics here are ridiculous.

It's called good PR. Had nothing to do with Trump and had everything to do with the FCC overturning net neutrality. The internet providers see cash coming fast.

The U.S. collects more money through tax than almost any country in the world, if not the most, it's not in constant debt because it can't make enough money however, it's because the government has a massive over spending problem, and nobody really cares about fixing that because the U.S. government is essentially "too big to fail", and everybody in congress knows it. There is no need to spend less, because the debt will never be their problem.

Don't misunderstand, it's massively irresponsible, but the U.S. government in no way cares about how much money it spends or clearing it's debt.
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What services?

All my medical, dental, car ownership privileges, trash pick up etc come straight out of my wallet.

I don't get squat for contributing to schools, the unemployed, illegal aliens .. and if my towns council thinks anyone is impressed that they blew $2mil on revamping our towns "Welcome to" sign rather than pouring that money into fixing our checkerboard of a freeway then they are sorely mistaken.
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JixHedgehog posted...

I don't get squat for contributing to schools

Lower crime rates.

JixHedgehog posted...

the unemployed

Youd pay a lot more if they were all homeless and needed frequent medical care

JixHedgehog posted...

illegal aliens

A lot of them pay more taxes than you, and they dont get anything for it.
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2.Economy
Taxes All taxes (except for sin taxes) should be replaced by a single sales tax (or VAT). Completely eliminate the income tax, corporate tax, social security tax, etc. The sales tax rate should be automatically raised/lowered to cover the amount spent in the previous year, with an allowance for surplus/deficit depending on the state of the economy. This is the single most important issue in the manifesto. All other economic issues are rendered secondary with an automatically adjusted national sales tax system in place, as everyone pays sales taxes at an equal rate (as opposed to something like an income tax), so the burden of any additional spending is distributed equally.

Mead posted...

JixHedgehog posted...

I don't get squat for contributing to schools

Lower crime rates.

There
JixHedgehog posted...

the unemployed

Youd pay a lot more if they were all homeless and needed frequent medical care

JixHedgehog posted...

illegal aliens

A lot of them pay more taxes than you, and they dont get anything for it.

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JixHedgehog posted...

Mead posted...

JixHedgehog posted...

I don't get squat for contributing to schools

Lower crime rates.

JixHedgehog posted...

the unemployed

Youd pay a lot more if they were all homeless and needed frequent medical care

JixHedgehog posted...

illegal aliens

A lot of them pay more taxes than you, and they dont get anything for it.

- There's no link between education and crime

- By the unemployed I meant everything they get, food stamps, shelter, "health care". Granted there are honest Vets out there trying to make it day to day, they've just been caught up with the junkies and alcoholics who refuse to accept both helping themselves and help from others.

- Illegals can't have tax deductions, no documentation means no ITIN or SSN. Go through the right channels, get your papers, stop working for a below the standard legal minimum wage (slavery is done and gone here) and start contributing
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miki_sauvester posted...

everyone pays sales taxes at an equal rate (as opposed to something like an income tax), so the burden of any additional spending is distributed equally.

There's a reason why every first world country scales tax rates on higher income earners.
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Fire and police are supposed to be funded locally, as are schools.

i think we need to cut social security and medicare for the elderly. gotta make up for the lost revenue and they will be dead soon anyways. im also pretty sure they dont belive in goverment handouts and socialism, so they will be ok with it.
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Mead posted...

JixHedgehog posted...

I don't get squat for contributing to schools

Lower crime rates.

As noted by Jix, there's no basis for the argument that schooling decreases criminal behavior and, in fact, most criminals are graduates of the public education system. If anything, it's an indictment of the current education system. Clearly the tax dollars aren't being used productively.

Granted, in the case of schools it's something of a "paying it forward" argument because each gen is paid for by the last and pays for the next. That said, America's public schools are among the worst in the developed world *despite* spending more on a percentage basis than other nations.

Mead posted...

JixHedgehog posted...

the unemployed

Youd pay a lot more if they were all homeless and needed frequent medical care

You actually wouldn't, especially since free money programs encourage people to not work.

Mead posted...

JixHedgehog posted...

illegal aliens

A lot of them pay more taxes than you, and they dont get anything for it.

Most of them don't pay taxes and they get either the same or more from the system, especially if they have kids.
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NightShift posted...

i think we need to cut social security and medicare for the elderly. gotta make up for the lost revenue and they will be dead soon anyways. im also pretty sure they dont belive in goverment handouts and socialism, so they will be ok with it.

You keep your government hands off their medicare!
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NightShift posted...

i think we need to cut social security and medicare for the elderly. gotta make up for the lost revenue and they will be dead soon anyways. im also pretty sure they dont belive in goverment handouts and socialism, so they will be ok with it.

Given that it all comes out of a separate fund which they paid into their whole lives, it would be kind of a dick move. If you discontinue the program, it would have to be scaled down over time (ie, people start paying in less, receive fewer benefits themselves). Otherwise, you could just do what Japan does and abandon the old in Tokyo.
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I've seen the people he's appointed
guarantee they'll just add on an extra payment to everything that was already sort of free before
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Lil69Leo posted...

BADoglick posted...

anondum posted...

not__shawn__z posted...

Lol ^ hard pill to swallow when almost a dozen major companies announced bonus' and or pay raises for their workers

The rates only go back up if the 2024 candidates want it to

if you look at those announcements all that stuff was already going to be done regardless of if this bill passed or not. that $15 an hour thing? it's part of a union deal to raise the wages to $17 an hour. so you should be thanking the union... oh wait unions are evil nevermind.

most of those companies already announced they are using the money for buybacks

I literally got an email at work saying 'because of the tax cuts, we are providing a thousand dollar bonus to all employees, and increasing our company minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour'

I am by no means a Trump fan, but the mental gymnastics here are ridiculous.

It's called good PR. Had nothing to do with Trump and had everything to do with the FCC overturning net neutrality. The internet providers see cash coming fast.

You're a willful moron. Don't care if I get modded. Your partisanship is making you an idiot

Lil69Leo posted...

BADoglick posted...

anondum posted...

not__shawn__z posted...

Lol ^ hard pill to swallow when almost a dozen major companies announced bonus' and or pay raises for their workers

The rates only go back up if the 2024 candidates want it to

if you look at those announcements all that stuff was already going to be done regardless of if this bill passed or not. that $15 an hour thing? it's part of a union deal to raise the wages to $17 an hour. so you should be thanking the union... oh wait unions are evil nevermind.

most of those companies already announced they are using the money for buybacks

I literally got an email at work saying 'because of the tax cuts, we are providing a thousand dollar bonus to all employees, and increasing our company minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour'

I am by no means a Trump fan, but the mental gymnastics here are ridiculous.

It's called good PR. Had nothing to do with Trump and had everything to do with the FCC overturning net neutrality. The internet providers see cash coming fast.

1. More mental gymnastics

2. Made even more ridiculous with the fact that I don't even work for an ISP.

3. Even if my bonus was dependent on net neutrality repeal, doesn't that mean that the liberal scare mongering was wrong on that issue as well?

Seems to me like the liberal options of more government and more taxes are standing in the way of more money for me, a lower middle class citizen. Again, I have a multitude of reasons for disliking Trump. But I am loving me this tax cut.
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OhhhJa posted...

Don't care if I get modded.

Leo is a troll. He posts outrageous shit in the hopes of getting people modded. The only way to win is not to play.
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