Current Events > anyone else vegan?

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is another interesting read: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/

Are human beings herbivores, carnivores, or omnivores?

Although most of us conduct our lives as omnivores, in that we eat flesh as well as vegetables and fruits, human beings have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores (2). The appendages of carnivores are claws; those of herbivores are hands or hooves. The teeth of carnivores are sharp; those of herbivores are mainly flat (for grinding). The intestinal tract of carnivores is short (3 times body length); that of herbivores, long (12 times body length). Body cooling of carnivores is done by panting; herbivores, by sweating. Carnivores drink fluids by lapping; herbivores, by sipping. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, whereas herbivores obtain it from their diet. Thus, humans have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores.

Is atherosclerosis genetic in origin?

Infrequently. Although many physicians and the lay public believe that atherosclerosis is genetic, the evidence for that is slim. One way to define the genetic variety of atherosclerosis is by the presence or absence of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) receptors in the liver (35). Patients with homozygous familial hypercholesterolemia have no LDL receptors in the liver, and their total cholesterol levels from birth are usually >800 mg/dL. The frequency of this genetic defect is 1 in 1,000,000. Patients with heterozygous familial hypercholesterolemia have only 50% of the normal number of LDL receptors in the liver. These patients generally have total cholesterol levels about 300 mg/dL, and they generally die (without lipid-lowering therapy) in their 40s or early 50s. The incidence of this familial defect is 1 in 500. The rest of us apparently have normal numbers of LDL receptors in the liver. Of course, a few patients have genetic defects involving high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol and triglyceride production and uptake, but these individuals are relatively few in number (6). Thus, the genetic defect producing atherosclerosis occurs in no more than 1 in 200 and possibly as low as 1 in 400 or 500 persons. This means, of course, that most persons with atherosclerosis acquire it by the types of calories they consume.

How effective are the statin drugs in preventing strokes?

Very effective. The statin drugs decrease the frequency of strokes in a 5-year period by approximately 30% (33). Until recently the statin drugs were the only drugs other than an antihypertensive drug demonstrated to decrease the frequency of stroke. Recently, the angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitor ramapril has been shown to decrease the frequency of strokes also by approximately 30% (32).

Do statin drugs have to be taken every day for the remainder of life?

Yes. Some patients apparently believe that the statin drugs need to be taken for only a few monthsuntil the cholesterol levels come down. I believe that it is important to tell patients when they are first placed on a statin drug that they will need to take the drug every day for the remainder of their lives. Of course, if a patient subsequently becomes a pure vegetarian-fruit eater it might be possible to discontinue the statin drug, but few Americans are willing to go the vegetarian route.

Read it all. It strongly suggests consuming animal products is detrimental to human health, even though humans can digest it.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Soy is good protein and healthy--and the manboobs thing is a busted myth. Animal products are more likely to cause issues with hormones and cause gynecomastia or low testosterone.

https://www.livestrong.com/article/107568-bilateral-gynecomastia/

https://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/does-soy-really-cause-man-boobs

Huh, good to know. I've kind of stayed away from soy out of fear of becoming a literal soyboy so that's nice to see. I'll have to look into this some more. And yeah I heard beef and milk both fuck with your test/est levels
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Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Soy is good protein and healthy--and the manboobs thing is a busted myth. Animal products are more likely to cause issues with hormones and cause gynecomastia or low testosterone.

https://www.livestrong.com/article/107568-bilateral-gynecomastia/

https://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/does-soy-really-cause-man-boobs

Huh, good to know. I've kind of stayed away from soy out of fear of becoming a literal soyboy so that's nice to see. I'll have to look into this some more. And yeah I heard beef and milk both fuck with your test/est levels

I've done a lot of research myself, but definitely look into it for your satisfaction. I found a lot of things were citing really limited studies. New information points to plants = good

I'd recommend the documentaries Forks over Knives and What The Health. FoK more for the benefits of plant eating and dangers of some foods, and WtH was very interesting with what it explored for corporate interests in the animal agribusiness. Things like huge lobbying money, buying out endorsements from cancer societies, stifling research into the health risks of meats, the huge corporate subsidies, environmental harms, etc. That was really interesting. It can get a little wonky with advocating a vegan diet as a cure all.

You are what you eat, let food be thy medicine, eat whole plants and be the best you :)
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Although most of us conduct our lives as omnivores, in that we eat flesh as well as vegetables and fruits, human beings have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores (2). The appendages of carnivores are claws; those of herbivores are hands or hooves. The teeth of carnivores are sharp; those of herbivores are mainly flat (for grinding). The intestinal tract of carnivores is short (3 times body length); that of herbivores, long (12 times body length). Body cooling of carnivores is done by panting; herbivores, by sweating. Carnivores drink fluids by lapping; herbivores, by sipping. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, whereas herbivores obtain it from their diet. Thus, humans have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores.

is there any particular reason why they mention omnivores but then go on only to describe herbivores and carnivores?
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prince_leo posted...

is there any particular reason why they mention omnivores but then go on only to describe herbivores and carnivores?

Omnivores retain characteristics of carnivores that allow them to attack and kill prey. They can also safely consumer all meat raw. They do not get atherosclerosis from cholesterol. Humans lack these characteristics. We developed tools and cooking. So we can eat it with preparation, but it hurts us inside slowly over our lives. It affects us the way it affects herbivores: those meant to eat no flesh regularly.
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prince_leo posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Although most of us conduct our lives as omnivores, in that we eat flesh as well as vegetables and fruits, human beings have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores (2). The appendages of carnivores are claws; those of herbivores are hands or hooves. The teeth of carnivores are sharp; those of herbivores are mainly flat (for grinding). The intestinal tract of carnivores is short (3 times body length); that of herbivores, long (12 times body length). Body cooling of carnivores is done by panting; herbivores, by sweating. Carnivores drink fluids by lapping; herbivores, by sipping. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, whereas herbivores obtain it from their diet. Thus, humans have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores.

is there any particular reason why they mention omnivores but then go on only to describe herbivores and carnivores?

I saw some version of that that said omnivores generally have the characteristics of herbivores, since plants are tougher to digest
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Dustin1280 posted...

You claim to be vegan and yet you didn't seem to realize how many things actually have animal products in them.

Ethical veganism is about minimizing and prevented the needless pain inflicted on animals. If it was never kill animals, for any reason, then there would be outrage over all the insects that die during any farming processes. Are vegans hypocrites if they dont care about those insects? No, it would be stupid to think we could somehow stop those insects from dying. We can easily get by not killing animals to eat and wear, and it wouldnt even be a bother.
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It's pretty strange to watch Dustin lose his mind over kids that are actually eating their fruits/vegetables and how they need a STRICT diet plan. Then he has to bite his tongue in seething rage at a parent that wouldn't give their kid fast food junk meat. Since when have kids had top authority on their diet? Many would want an all candy diet (or the fast food meat you think is so important) because they have the mind of a child and don't yet understand dietary consequences.

No need to constantly quote a fluff article by a nobody. Here's what the largest group of professional dieticians in the country has to say about a vegan diet.

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood and for athletes.

http://www.eatrightpro.org/~/media/eatrightpro%20files/practice/position%20and%20practice%20papers/position%20papers/vegetarian-diet.ashx
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

Going vegan actually eliminated deficiencies I didn't even know I had til I started keeping track of bloodwork. My powerlifting gains got a second wind too.
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Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

prince_leo posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Although most of us conduct our lives as omnivores, in that we eat flesh as well as vegetables and fruits, human beings have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores (2). The appendages of carnivores are claws; those of herbivores are hands or hooves. The teeth of carnivores are sharp; those of herbivores are mainly flat (for grinding). The intestinal tract of carnivores is short (3 times body length); that of herbivores, long (12 times body length). Body cooling of carnivores is done by panting; herbivores, by sweating. Carnivores drink fluids by lapping; herbivores, by sipping. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, whereas herbivores obtain it from their diet. Thus, humans have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores.

is there any particular reason why they mention omnivores but then go on only to describe herbivores and carnivores?

I saw some version of that that said omnivores generally have the characteristics of herbivores, since plants are tougher to digest

Internally in many ways, yes. There's a great deal of variety. Not all omnivores are created equally. Chimpanzees are omnivores because they can and do eat some meat--however, over 97% of their diet consists of fruit and other plants. Functionally they are herbivores.

I'm not suggesting humans are strictly herbivores like a deer... wait even deer eat some meat sometimes. but humans are like chimpanzees, in that they are omnivores yet animal products have no place in the daily diet. too much is harmful. And boy do modern humans overdo it!

What I should have said is omnivores that are meant to regularly eat meat retain hunting characteristics. And omnivores that don't often eat meat are usually referred to as herbivores.
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Krojen posted...

It's pretty strange to watch Dustin lose his mind over kids that are actually eating their fruits/vegetables and how they need a STRICT diet plan. Then he has to bite his tongue in seething rage at a parent that wouldn't give their kid fast food junk meat. Since when have kids had top authority on their diet? Many would want an all candy diet (or the fast food meat you think is so important) because they have the mind of a child and don't yet understand dietary consequences.

don;t parents usually beg and plead their kids to eat vegetables, and try to find sneaky ways to incorporate them because they know they're the healthiest part of a meal

suddenly you eat all the plants and people say that's bad
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No, because it sounds super lame. I also don't have to tell e eryone about it then either, making life easier.
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Wow truly interesting and enlightening topic. I wish veggies didnt taste completely disgusting to me.

Quick question: what would be the reaction if it were discovered that plants had an aspect to them that made their harvest and consumption inhumane?
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-there are YouTube videos of deers eating bbq and even dead birds, doesnt mean they are omnivores

-carnivores and omnivores have digestive tracts around 3-6x the length of their trunk (basically the torso area, body not including head, arms or legs etc). Relatively shorter because meat can quite literally rot inside of the body if left too long
-herbivores have digestive tracts about 10-12x the length of their trunks.
-guess how long a humans digestive system is? In the 10-12x range.

-the intestines of meat eaters are smooth and tubular, like a straw or a slide or something. Its easier for meat to pass through the system without putrifying or protein leeching (this is a real problem with the animal protein people eat)
-herbivorous systems are crinkled and folded to increase surface area and whatnot. Food still moves through thanks to fibre found in plants. For humans its mostly cellulose. Developed like this so the body can absorb a greater amount of nutrients from plant sources
-if youve ever seen a human digestive system in a textbook, youd know that our intestines are windy and lumpy and whatnot, like herbivores. And, like herbivores, if we dont get enough fibre our food will not pass.

-the stomach acid of omnivorous and carnivorous animals is roughly 20x more acidic than the stomach acids of herbivores. This kills parasites and bacteria that would survive in a herbivores stomach, and it breaks down the animal proteins.
-the stomach acidity of the human animal is what youd find in a herbivores stomach. We cant eat raw meat without risking some kind of food poisoning, and is impractical to eat

-the saliva of carnivores is acidic to break down animal flesh.
-the saliva of herbivores is alkaline, and breaks down starches.
-human saliva is alkaline. A piece of bread left in our mouth will become sweet, but no predigestion occurs with animal products

-both omnivores and carnivores have lipid metabolisms such that it is impossible for atherosclerosis (heart/artery disease) to occur, regardless of how much dietary cholesterol they consume
-atherosclerosis can be induced in plant-eating animals by adding dietary cholesterol.
-humans can develop atherosclerosis. If total cholesterol is below a certain range (I think 140? I forget), atherosclerosis is impossible to develop, regardless of other risk factors such as sugar intake/diabetes, cancer, obesity, smoking, no sleep, stress, etc. Cholesterol is the only necessary risk factor for atherosclerosis to develop. On a Standard American Diet, children as young as 3 years old have aortic fatty streaks to some degree, aka developing heart disease. And people are outraged when kids are put ON vegan diets?

-and obviously we dont have claws or fangs or anything. Our brains and development of tools allow us to circumvent our limits of not being predators, it doesnt make us predators. For anyone who is going to make note of our canines, honestly, do you even believe that yourself? Our teeth are not cutting into flesh any time soon. Chimpanzees and gorillas have super intimidating fangs and yet they are fully herbivorous animals, with an exception of some termites or something, probably.
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josifrees posted...

Wow truly interesting and enlightening topic. I wish veggies didnt taste completely disgusting to me.

Quick question: what would be the reaction if it were discovered that plants had an aspect to them that made their harvest and consumption inhumane?

doesn't really matter, everything requires plants. There has been no observable sentience. Eating animals requires harvesting and using more plants for feed than you would eat on your own. A huge pecent of crops on earth are grown to feed livestock, not humans. If we instead stopped breeding animals to eat and ate plants ourselves, we could drastically cut down on the number of plants needed to grow to feed the world. and the number of suffering plants. :P
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josifrees posted...

Wow truly interesting and enlightening topic. I wish veggies didnt taste completely disgusting to me.

Quick question: what would be the reaction if it were discovered that plants had an aspect to them that made their harvest and consumption inhumane?

That hypothetical actually gets brought up a lot, plants feel pain too! Basically they dont, evolutionarily it wouldnt make sense. Animals operate on the hedonistic sense of seeking pleasure and avoiding pain. Since plants can move or fight or anything like that, it would be a useless adaptation for them to be able to feel pain or emotions. But somehow, if we discovered that they did, in fact, feel pain, the reality is that we need to eat plants to survive (and for clothes, building, etc). If we didnt eat plants, wed die. We can live without animals or their lactations/periods as food. So eating animal products is needless, and does cause suffering, whereas eating plants is necessary and does not cause pain.
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discodancer77 posted...

-and obviously we dont have claws or fangs or anything. Our brains and development of tools allow us to circumvent our limits of not being predators, it doesnt make us predators. For anyone who is going to make note of our canines, honestly, do you even believe that yourself? Our teeth are not cutting into flesh any time soon. Chimpanzees and gorillas have super intimidating fangs and yet they are fully herbivorous animals, with an exception of some termites or something, probably.

chimpanzees do occasionally hunt monkeys, and eat termites. but it makes up such a tiny amount of their diet. if they ate 10 food portions a day they may eat meat for one portion in a week.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Dairy
Eggs
Dead Animals
Things Made From Dead Animals
Honey

I'd even say eggs are debatable

I don't see a problem with eating them if they're sourced correctly
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InYourWalls1 posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Dairy
Eggs
Dead Animals
Things Made From Dead Animals
Honey

I'd even say eggs are debatable

I don't see a problem with eating them if they're sourced correctly

regardless of your thoughts on the ethics of eggs, eggs are not vegan.
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discodancer77 posted...

For anyone who is going to make note of our canines, honestly, do you even believe that yourself?

Yeah I've always found that a really, really weak argument. We have like four slightly pointy teeth (actually most peoples' aren't even pointy) and that's taken to mean that we're supposed to eat meat
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Doctor Foxx posted...

regardless of your thoughts on the ethics of eggs, eggs are not vegan

Fair enough if that's your view, though I guess it depends on how you're defining veganism.

If it's no animal products full-stop then sure, but I've always seen veganism as a means of avoiding animal suffering, which isn't mutually exclusive from eggs.
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InYourWalls1 posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

regardless of your thoughts on the ethics of eggs, eggs are not vegan

Fair enough if that's your view, though I guess it depends on how you're defining veganism.

If it's no animal products full-stop then sure, but I've always seen veganism as a means of avoiding animal suffering, which isn't mutually exclusive from eggs.

Your definition of veganism is wrong and dumb.

InYourWalls1 posted...

Fair enough if that's your view, though I guess it depends on how you're defining veganism.

If it's no animal products full-stop then sure,

Yes. That is veganism. Vegetarians can have eggs. But if you are vegan you cannot.

Vegans are a kind of vegetarian, and there are many kinds... if you're an egg eater you're an ovo-vegetarian and not a vegan, even if you support the ethics of veganism other than that instance. But it is still taking eggs from an animal without permission, eggs they would choose to fertilize. veganism says no we do not have the right to do take their hard-made eggs and eat them. :)
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InYourWalls1 posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Dairy
Eggs
Dead Animals
Things Made From Dead Animals
Honey

I'd even say eggs are debatable

I don't see a problem with eating them if they're sourced correctly

Yeah but its not really realistic that everyone would have a backyard pet hen to pick up the eggs she naturally lays behind. Also, I believe hens actually eat the eggs (gruesome!) to regain lost minerals and stuff. Please correct me if Im wrong. In any case, eggs arent good for you so you shouldnt be eating them anyway. A single yolk has like, what, 200+ mg of cholesterol? And eggs by law cannot be labeled as Healthy, Nutritious, or even Safe
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

To certain groups of Christians, being gay is a sin and means you are going to hell.
Is it okay for them to try to pray the gay out of their child simply because they BELIEVE such a thing?

sexual orientation isn't a choice--and it isn't an act. eating meat (and the composition of your diet as a broader concept) is 100% a choice and an act. come on, really?

So is being an extremist who attacks people for eating meat.
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TrojanPony posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

To certain groups of Christians, being gay is a sin and means you are going to hell.
Is it okay for them to try to pray the gay out of their child simply because they BELIEVE such a thing?

sexual orientation isn't a choice--and it isn't an act. eating meat (and the composition of your diet as a broader concept) is 100% a choice and an act. come on, really?

So is being an extremist who attacks people for eating meat.

Who here had attacked anyone?

Having the truth that meat = death mentioned is no attack. If you think it is, imagine living a short miserable life with an unpleasant end all so someone could satisfy their taste buds for a few minutes, until the next victim. That's a little more of an attack. I feel for those billions of exploited animals and that's why I'm not missing out without meat in my life


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NibeIungsnarf posted...

Your definition of veganism is wrong and dumb.

If you mean that in an ethical sense feel free to elaborate. If it's a semantic criticism though then lol sure bud.

Doctor Foxx posted...

But it is still taking eggs from an animal without permission, eggs they would choose to fertilize. veganism says no we do not have the right to do take their hard-made eggs and eat them. :)

Okay I see where you're coming from. I guess that's where my interpretation differs - for example if one has a pet (or even a kid!) occasionally things are done for their benefit without their consent such as getting shots at the vet. It's also beneficial to keep them from exercising their choice to breed and leaving strays on the street. Is the alternative not ethically less preferable?

Of course when it comes to taking their eggs it's not to their benefit, but provided a chicken is well cared for, not to their detriment either, so no harm no fowl
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InYourWalls1 posted...

Okay I see where you're coming from. I guess that's where my interpretation differs

Your interpretation suggests you don't understand there is an established accepted definition of vegan. You are confusing ethics of animal treatment with this.

InYourWalls1 posted...

Of course when it comes to taking their eggs it's not to their benefit, but provided a chicken is well cared for, not to their detriment either, so no harm no fowl

I don't exactly disagree. But eggs are not vegan No one will argue against the statement an egg is an animal product.

It's important to know that because when things are labeled vegan on food or restaurants that must mean zero animal products. Don't want to muddy the accepted definition. It's not about the ethics when vegan is an adjective, it's about the total absence of animal products. That includes a vegan diet or vegan clothing or vegan cosmetics or vegan lifestyle. You can't just add animal products to something and call it vegan just because of how the items were sourced and how you feel about it. That's irrelevant.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

TrojanPony posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

To certain groups of Christians, being gay is a sin and means you are going to hell.
Is it okay for them to try to pray the gay out of their child simply because they BELIEVE such a thing?

sexual orientation isn't a choice--and it isn't an act. eating meat (and the composition of your diet as a broader concept) is 100% a choice and an act. come on, really?

So is being an extremist who attacks people for eating meat.

Who here had attacked anyone?

You did by forcing your beliefs on everyone. How long until you start posting animal gore?
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InYourWalls1 posted...

for example if one has a pet (or even a kid!) occasionally things are done for their benefit without their consent such as getting shots at the vet. It's also beneficial to keep them from exercising their choice to breed and leaving strays on the street. Is the alternative not ethically less preferable?

Let me tell you I work in this field. I'm all about the day and neuter. I disagree with it in the sense that these are procedures done to an animal without its consent. In a broader vegan sense of minimizing harm to animals, this requires intervention to prevent unwanted litters and the spread of disease. That means sterilization and vaccination.

But this is only because humans keep animals captive and can not possibly control nature. Arguably the vegan thing is to not own animals to begin with, preserve their natural habitats, and keep the environment clean! But we're not there. We're here where animals are commodities and property. there are millions of animals euthanized each year for lack of space in shelters. Billions slaughtered for food in the US alone.

Humans have domesticated some species. We are responsible for them and we owe it to all of the currently living domesticated animals to care for them. They need us. But we need to stop breeding them for profit (meat, fur, pets, etc.) and consider that these are also living creatures that feel. We can't keep being so shitty to them.
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TrojanPony posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

TrojanPony posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

To certain groups of Christians, being gay is a sin and means you are going to hell.
Is it okay for them to try to pray the gay out of their child simply because they BELIEVE such a thing?

sexual orientation isn't a choice--and it isn't an act. eating meat (and the composition of your diet as a broader concept) is 100% a choice and an act. come on, really?

So is being an extremist who attacks people for eating meat.

Who here had attacked anyone?

You did by forcing your beliefs on everyone. How long until you start posting animal gore?

How have my beliefs been forced on you? Discussing beliefs isn't forcing anything. People are discussing things. You can still buy meat and eat it until your little heart gives out.

You clicked a topic about vegans buddy and got mad about a pro vegan discussion lol
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Doctor Foxx posted...

You can still buy meat and eat it until your little heart gives out.

And there you go again, that is exactly the same as saying "I hope you die from cancer" to a smoker.
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My girlfriend is vegan and I have been eating a lot less meat since I met her. I can't call myself vegan or even vegitarian though. I go along with it mostly for the health benifits though. I can't pretend to suddenly care about the poor little animals, I was aware of their crappy situations before I met my gf.
I mean, I'm not gonna stop buying Iphones because poor little asian kids put them together in horrible conditions for next to nothing. So I won't be a hypocrite.

There are plenty of great meat substitutes out there though. It's easy to eat good vegan food....the impossible burger is insane, I recommend you guys try it. It tastes 1 to 1 like meat.
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ALIEN_WORK2HOP posted...

I mean, I'm not gonna stop buying Iphones because poor little asian kids put them together in horrible conditions for next to nothing. So I won't be a hypocrite.

It's better to take some action on some matters rather than being aware of issues and inactive in diminishing harm in the world. Even if that gets you labeled as a hypocrite. That's really only you applying the label. Is pride worth more than the lives saved?

We can't do everything right all the time. And there's a lot that's wrong in society. But we sure can do something. Even reducing your consumption of meat as you have is beneficial for everyone on the planet and is commendable.
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All the Vegan's itt are brainwashed hypocrites trying to shove there idiocy down everyone's throat.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Your interpretation suggests you don't understand there is an established accepted definition of vegan. You are confusing ethics of animal treatment with this.

You're right, I was approaching veganism as the overarching philosophy, which is why I saw the praxis as debatable and open to some interpretation.

Practically speaking though, I don't identify myself to anyone as ovo-veg or anything like that. I don't eat most eggs out there and don't want anyone to assume I do.

Doctor Foxx posted...

Humans have domesticated some species. We are responsible for them and we owe it to all of the currently living domesticated animals to care for them. They need us. But we need to stop breeding them for profit

But yes, praxis and everything else aside, we're in full agreement on the end game here
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ColdOne666 posted...

All the Vegan's itt are brainwashed hypocrites trying to shove there idiocy down everyone's throat.

vegans*
their*

AssultTank posted...

Soy, kale, seaweed, and tomatoes are among the things I'm allergic to.

Damn that'd suck to be allergic to tomatoes. That's rough man
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anyone else vegan?

I'm not. And I never will be.

I've been vegan for about 2 and a half months now. as someone who mostly used to eat meat, dairy, and junk food, I gotta say I'm surprised at the quality of a lot of the meat-free and dairy-free stuff out there.

Whatever works for you. Me, I have consumed countless animals during the course of my life. And I will consume countless more before I'm done. AND I often eat simply for the pleasure of it too!

That said, I don't really have a problem with vegans or anything, I just like to tell them how I roll whenever they feel the need to bring up, that they are one. Because, that too is somewhat pleasurable :).

Hmm... could go with nice juicy steak right about now. Deer perhaps?

Uh oh a dank memester has arrived
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didnt read any of thois topic

do vegans care about insects
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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Pukes

This.

Some of that food looked downright disgusting.
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Oh boy, my FAVORITE type of logic!

Doctor Foxx posted...

if you do nothing to lessen that cruelty when you have the opportunity, you are perpetrating it and complicit in suffering.

Because as we all know, not voting is a vote for Trump amirite guyz?
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I'll prolly go vegan once I can afford it

My entire cars interior is leather and I love steaks and I don't just cook for me >.> But I've worked in produce for many years and I know how ....yummy some vegan food can be. If I dont go vegan then I hope to eat more humane meat like Chris Pratt lmao
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Never. I love meat too much. I even have very pronounced canine teeth like dogs do lol
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Not surprising a "holier than thou" attitude was adopted almost immediately in this topic (from the TC no less)

But, no I'm not vegan and never will be. I've seen what goes on in some slaughterhouses and yea, it kind of sucks but it is what it is

I also do plenty of hunting (for deer meat) and fishing (both onshore and offshore). Never once felt guilty of doing either of those so the "you wouldn't eat meat if you had to kill it yourself" argument doesn't work on me (that may not have been mentioned in this topic, but I've seen it plenty before)
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KobeSystem posted...

do vegans care about insects

To varying degrees. The main goal of vegans is to reduce their role in the suffering and exploitation of animals as far as is practical and possible. Insects are animals but it is often practical to kill them because of the health risks they pose to humans. It's generally not practical to let yourself or others become ill or die because of them.

Mosquitoes, houseflies, fruit flies, drain flies, ants, and cockroaches all get the axe from me because they pose health risks, some of which I or someone I know has been severely debilitated by in the past. Crickets, centipedes, millipedes, various beetles, moths, and crane flies get captured and released. I'm allergic to wasps, so those get iced if they get too close, but I generally let them chill if they're minding their own business. Not insects, but I'll let non-venomous spiders chill. If I see a brown recluse or black widow, though, they dead. Same for scorpions, although those have never been a big problem for me.

The most effort I make concerning insects is to try to make human space as inhospitable to them as possible in the first place. Screens on doors/windows and cleanliness go along way in keeping the pests out. When it's wasp season, we spray peppermint oil on their usual spots and that seems to work. We've tried the decoy nests but they always seem to get broken or blown away by wind/storms. Cinnamon seems to keep ants away from the foundation of the house. That is just stuff people should do to protect their homes in general, though, and not so much a matter of being a vegan, but there is the added bonus of not having to kill them if I keep them from being a problem.

That said, I have met a few vegans who strive not to kill any animals, ever, but their veganism was more spiritually motivated and bolstered by a sanctity for all life. Those probably aren't that common and most vegans won't/can't go that far. I surely couldn't.

MLGSerperior111 posted...

Oh boy, my FAVORITE type of logic!

Doctor Foxx posted...

if you do nothing to lessen that cruelty when you have the opportunity, you are perpetrating it and complicit in suffering.

Because as we all know, not voting is a vote for Trump amirite guyz?

Not to step on Foxx's toes, it's not so much that you are doing nothing to lessen it, it's that by consuming animal products, you are doing something that directly contributes to their suffering. Not voting at all is doing nothing with the side effect that you are strengthening one candidate's chances should more people turn out for him or her. Spending your money on burgers or leather boots is directly funding and perpetuating a business that directly causes the suffering of animals.

DyingPancake posted...

it kind of sucks but it is what it is

It sucks to an extreme magnitude*

and it only "is what it is" because people let it be that way. There's nothing at all that says we must have factory farm meat and tons that say we can't afford them for very much longer. Even if you don't care about the animals themselves enough to muster a more impassioned comment than "yeah it sucks meh what can we do \_()_/" then consider what it does for the environment that humans depend on. Consider that animal agriculture is one of the biggest polluters of land, water, and air. Consider that antibiotics that these animals are pumped with are creating super bugs that we may never be able to treat. Hunting and small farms are not a solution because those are not abundant enough to continue to carry the load of meat consumption. Greatly reducing, at the very least, the consumption of animal products and moving to a plant based diet is currently the only hope for sustainability.
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Millennials posted...
DyingPancake posted...

it kind of sucks but it is what it is

It sucks to an extreme magnitude*

and it only "is what it is" because people let it be that way. There's nothing at all that says we must have factory farm meat and tons that say we can't afford them for very much longer. Even if you don't care about the animals themselves enough to muster a more impassioned comment than "yeah it sucks meh what can we do \_()_/" then consider what it does for the environment that humans depend on. Consider that animal agriculture is one of the biggest polluters of land, water, and air. Consider that antibiotics that these animals are pumped with are creating super bugs that we may never be able to treat. Hunting and small farms are not a solution because those are not abundant enough to continue to carry the load of meat consumption. Greatly reducing, at the very least, the consumption of animal products and moving to a plant based diet is currently the only hope for sustainability.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know

Its not going to stop me from buying meat. Its not going to stop others from buying meat.

It is what it is

And hunting absolutely does lessen the consumption of meat bought from a store. Maybe not to the levels you want, but it does make an impact and the animal is killed instantly.
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DyingPancake posted...

You're not telling me anything I don't already know

My mistake. Your remarks vastly undersold the reality of the situation, so I didn't have much indication of what you claim to know.

Its not going to stop me from buying meat. Its not going to stop others from buying meat.

I'm fully aware that there are currently lost causes and may always be lost causes but veganism is on the rise and has already impacted several sectors of animal agriculture. All indications are that it will continue to thrive.

It is what it is

For now.

DyingPancake posted...

And hunting absolutely does lessen the consumption of meat bought from a store. Maybe not to the levels you want, but it does make an impact and the animal is killed instantly.

It's not about the levels "I want" but the levels that are sustainable. Hunting might be viable for the relatively few people who do it now but there's no way that everyone who consumes meat especially at the current rates of consumption can thrive on it. This is especially true moving forward when the populations increase. People will eventually have no choice but to eat less or no meat.
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Why are vegans typically pro-choice?

pres_madagascar posted...

Never. I love meat too much. I even have very pronounced canine teeth like dogs do lol

It's great your teeth look sharp but... No. Furthermore canines are one set of teeth out of dozens of teeth that play a role in killing prey and tearing flesh from bone. You teeth aren't made for that.



Pulling flesh from the bone when it's cooked is easy. Omnivore challenge: Eat a rare meat prefer one the bone clean. You can't. Not only can you not pull the meat off, you'll be sick trying. Because humans aren't made to regularly eat meat or we'd be digesting that shit raw like every other animal out there.

MLGSerperior111 posted...

Because as we all know, not voting is a vote for Trump amirite guyz?

Not paying to abuse animals and eat their corpses is very different from casting a political ballot for any one candidate. Not American though thank you. That was quite the false equivalence. This is also a choice made every single time a person eats, not once every 4 years in November. It adds up to a lot of choices.

DyingPancake posted...

You're not telling me anything I don't already know

Its not going to stop me from buying meat. Its not going to stop others from buying meat.

It is what it is

Yes. Immoral. Unnecessary suffering. It's ok. I felt like nothing would make me vegan for a long time. I greatly enjoy all those foods and the convenience of an unlimited diet. But the cost of it clicked hard one day and I stopped. It's bad for human health, and the environment. That alone should be reason enough to not eat something. It also requires hurting and killing animals. Combined then there's really no reason at all.

Knowing something is evil and saying that's just the way it is, that's a terrible attitude

NibeIungsnarf posted...

Why are vegans typically pro-choice?

There's no consensus among vegans about abortion. Some vegans feel all life is sacred and would never. Others recognize that abortion can prevent a life of suffering for parent and child and feel that it can be the best option. It's not universally yes or no.
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