Board 8 > KP'S Top 40 Characters - Featuring Dante From The Devil May Cry Series

(+) Yeah! (+)

Awesome to see James on the list.
---

Currently replaying Legends and the encounter rate there is kinda overstated. The Dreamcast version was bad, but Legends reduced it a good amount.
---

I've been pretty spoiled by how recent games have all moved towards having enemies on the map instead of interrupting you with a forced encounter. I can still deal with it simply because I grew up playing games with that, but yeah.

I wonder what someone who started gaming recently would think of how old RPGs handled encounters. They might not be able to stand it.

Snake5555555555 posted...

Awesome to see James on the list.

Was hoping one of the few horror games fans on B8 would appreciate that!
---

then I've got good news for you

Lufia II has all enemies on the map and you can literally avoid all encounters if you wish because enemies only move when you do

the game also gives you abilities to "stun" enemies so you can move past them without triggering a fight
---

Oh

Suddenly I'm interested!
---

just don't play the DS remake or so I hear
---

Lufia 2 is decent but I think it gets overhyped by a lot of its fans.

Conversely, the DS remake isnt great, but also gets overhated by its detractors.

Who knew!
---

LeonhartFour posted...

Currently replaying Legends and the encounter rate there is kinda overstated. The Dreamcast version was bad, but Legends reduced it a good amount.

I think the Legends encounter rate seems worse than it is because normal battles in that game are kind of tedious and not that engaging. I never really felt like it was egregious.
---

The battles are definitely tedious until Aika learns Lambda Burst, but it's mostly smooth sailing once she does and especially once Vyse learns Rain of Swords.
---

The Mana Sword posted...

Lufia 2 is decent but I think it gets overhyped by a lot of its fans.

Conversely, the DS remake isnt great, but also gets overhated by its detractors.

Who knew!

Maybe KP won't like Lufia II, but I think it's a good game worth playing and it needs people to hype it up.

Much like Ratchet & Clank

(Play Ratchet & Clank)
---

Can respect James Sunderland as a top character cause yeah he's unique and interesting but he, and to a lesser extent Silent Hill 2, didn't do anything for me.
---

Also Lufia 2 is awesome but becomes much less awesome if you're not into the Ancient Cave. I think people who think it's overhyped probably didn't get into that mode-- because yeah if you're into that you can't get many experiences similar in video games without tanking production values a lot or veering too far into other genres or more hardcore things.

Without that it's a solid RPG. It's still good, but doesn't stand out a ton on the SNES library, which has literally dozens of good RPGs, I don't think
---

I never got into the Ancient Cave, but I still really enjoyed it.
---

Yeah even without the Ancient Cave I think it's very good I just think I'd probably agree it's a bit overhyped.

Although it probably would still deserve more talk than Earthbound so I dunno. Maybe I just wish more people would talk about Breath of Fire or something.
---

I think EarthBound definitely fits what KP was saying about a battle system being so archaic that it'd be nearly impossible to get into if you didn't grow up playing those kinds of RPGs.
---

Late tag
---

Here I will talk about Breath of Fire.

1-3 are mediocre, 5 is interested by flawed.

Haven't played 4.
---

I really like the rolling HP meter mechanic of Earthbound, and battles are still fun to me because of the atmosphere, but yeah it's pretty archaic. At least you can see monsters on the map, but it's impossible to avoid most of them so it doesn't make much of a difference.

I've played Ratchet and Clank: Up Your Arsenal. It was fun!
---

KamikazePotato posted...

but it's impossible to avoid most of them so it doesn't make much of a difference.

sounds like somebody needs to learn how to stutterstep !!
---

One day I'll be as pro as other people at the Earthbound metagame

I think the RPG most ruined by random battles is Suikoden V. Great game, love its story and characters and atmosphere. Music's pretty good. But it had a battle loading time that puts FF9's to shame and the encounter rate was super high. It was so bad that I googled it and found others complaining about the same thing, which thankfully directed me to a hidden accessory that heavily reduced the rate. Otherwise I don't know if I could have finished it.

Oh yeah. This is a character list. Will continue this sometime today!
---

Nah. FFIX's battle load time is actually a bit longer than Suikoden V's by a few seconds. It does do a bit more visual tricks with the sweeping cameras to make it seem less long though.

They're both awful mind you it's like 10s vs 14s or something but yeah
---

skull shield blows up on x00
---

Lopen posted...

They're both awful mind you it's like 10s vs 14s or something but yeah

Jeeze, is FFIX's really that long? I knew it was bad, but I don't know how I suffered through something like that!
---

Lopen's right in that the game makes it not seem quite as long with the camera work, but yeah, it's pretty long. FFIX's default ATB seems like it fills slower than other games, too.
---

One underrated thing about it is that the random battle music syncs up really well with the low startup time because the music has a gradual buildup. If it was just a loading screen without the music or flashy (by 2000 PS1 standards) camera pans, it would be pretty heinous.
---

I looked up a few youtubes of the two and yeah it seemed like 13-14 vs 9-10 on the two

I do think Suikoden V has the higher encounter rate of the two if memory serves, though I'm not positive on that as it's been a while since I've played either one. Although in Suikoden V the in battle animations are a bit quicker too so ultimately I think FFIX is still a bit worse.

I think it's just more noticeable in Suikoden V because it's more of an outlier compared to the super fast earlier games in the series (FFVII and FFVIII aren't as bad as FFIX but they definitely prime you for slower battle loading in the series compared to earlier Suikoden games) and because of less camera tricks and the music.
---

Yeah I went from Suikoden 2 to Suikoden 5. It was a rough transition.
---

9. Kaine (Nier)

"Weiss you dumbass! You better start making sense you rotten book, or you're gonna be sorry. Maybe I'll rip your pages out one by one, or maybe I'll put you in the goddamn furnance! How can someone with such a big, smart brain be hypnotized like a little bitch, huh!? Oh, Shadowlord, I love you Shadowlord, come over here and give Weiss a big sloppy kiss, Shadowlord. Now pull your head out of your goddamn ass and start fucking helping us!"

http://cdn2-www.playstationlifestyle.net/assets/uploads/2009/09/3928611560_204e9fb9f2.jpg

The above quote is heard approximately 3 seconds after booting up Nier. It's hard to forget.

Kaine is a character of excess. Her voice, fighting style, outfit, and language are all extremely over-the-top in a game that otherwise isn't. Nier's story has a bunch of fantasy/sci-fi elements in it but every other character in it feels way more grounded than Kaine, including the floating talking book and whatever the hell Emil is supposed to be. And they're not hesitant to point it out, either - Nier and Weiss' first lines when finding Kaine are somewhere along the lines sof "what's up with her?"

It's a great contrast to the emotional vulnerability she displays. Kaine is quite clearly coping with a lot. She never tells people exactly what she's coping with, but you can see it in how upset she gets by certain events that happen in the story. There are times when she goes from verbally flipping off someone to quiet and depressed within the span of an instant. While at first it seems almost out of character, it doesn't take long to realize that it IS her character. Kaine's bombastic personality is what she uses to cover up all the pain she's feeling inside, and while it never makes her any less of an entertaining character, it does add much more nuance to how she acts.

And she's definitely entertaining as hell. Laura Bailey is maybe the best voice actress in the business and Kaine is probably my favorite role she's done. I could listen to Kaine yell at things all day. Half the background dialogue in the game is of her bickering with Weiss and it never gets old. Every other character in the game is stoic, earnest, pompous, subdued, or just plain tired. Kaine is the only one who's loud and she provides a very-much appreciated contrast to the rest of the world.

Kaine is also the central focus of one of the most memorable segments in the game. The Nier series is fond of utilizing pure text/book formats to illustrate some of its flashbacks, and the one depicting Kaine's upbringing is the best one they've ever done. It's completely jarring when it pops up, happening right in the middle of a dramatic scene, and then fifteen minutes later I realized I was entirely engrossed in this story of a young Kaine and her relationship with her grandmother. It added so much context to Kaine as a whole and she ends up being the most fleshed-out character in the game as a result.

The only flaw I can think of with Kaine as a character is her outfit, which is...a little too far out there even when considering how it ties into her personality. Everything else about her is great. If Nier 3 can have another character as memorable as 9S or Kaine in its cast, I'll be extremely impressed.
---

Weiss--excuse me, Grimoire Weiss--is my favorite Nier character, but Kaine--excuse me, the hussy--is pretty good, too.
---

The entire Nier 1 cast is stellar. I think that's one area it definitely beats out the sequel in.
---

Kaine is very good
---

8. Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney series)

"OBJECTION!"

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelvscapcom/images/9/98/Phoenix-wright-objection.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110729174157

I'm going to keep this brief, because there is not a single person on B8 who doesn't know about Phoenix Wright. He's the ultimate underdog - even though you know he's going to win almost every case he participates in, the games sell his hopeless situation so well that you still end up holding your breath every time the judge is about to pronounce the GUILTY verdict. Phoenix gets knocked down again and again and again, sometimes physically (who the hell lets a prosecutor bring a whip into a courtroom?), but he gets back up every single time. Doesn't matter if you're a genius prosecutor who's never lost a case - Wright won't hesitate to come at you with everything he's got. The reason his famous OBJECTION is so memorable is because, every time you throw one out, you're grasping for that tiny ray of truth in a dark pit of lies and misinformation. Finding it is oh, so satisfying, and Phoenix's reaction perfectly mirrors the same sort of smug glee you're feeling in that moment.

Wrighto is potentially the most inherently likable character in existence. He's this perfect combination of competent, dorky, earnest, and sarcastic. He's dressed to impress but also has an extremely back-spiked anime haircut that must consume a bottle of hair gel every morning to get right. Despite the numerous difficulties he faces due to being a lawyer, he's extremely proud of his profession and is (begrudgingly) willing to take cases pro-bono even he can barely afford to buy Maya a burger. He acts shocked and/or rolls his eyes when confronted with the many ridiculous people/scenarios he encounters in his cases, but is always quick to adapt and even use the weirdness to his advantage. The legal system in the Ace Attorney world is a draconian farce where the police and prosecutors hold all the cards - making it a pretty faithful representation of the Japanese legal system - but that didn't stop Phoenix from building up such an image that they made a literal statue of him. Phoenix Wright is both an everyman and a hero, and is the perfect protagonist for a series like Ace Attorney, where normal people must become heroes to those forsaken by everyone else.

Also, the stuff in AJ never happened to him. Capcom wants you to think so and I'm more than happy to oblige.
---

---

KamikazePotato posted...

He's dressed to impress but also has an extremely back-spiked anime haircut that must consume a bottle of hair gel every morning to get right.

Phoenix insists that his hair is naturally that way!

also Phoenix too low
---

Phoenix is very good
---

I really like Phoenix, but I'm not sure he'd even be on my top 40 at all. I'm not even sure what exactly he's missing to totally click with me. I think it's more just the plot and style of the games combined with that type of character? Like courtroom drama can only make it feel like things are so stacked against you, or something. I think if more of the cases were as high stakes as 2-4 I'd probably like him more?

In my best attempt to be objective he's worthy of being that high but he's not one of my personal favorites.
---

Remember, everyone, Phoenix/Maya is the OTP.
---

Lopen posted...

In my best attempt to be objective he's worthy of being that high but he's not one of my personal favorites.

Some character just don't click with us. Sometimes I think it's that simple - like, I can recognize Cloud is a pretty good RPG protagonist but I've never been able to bring myself to care about him.

I don't feel quite the same way about courtroom dramas as you do though. They can get me pretty tense! I do agree that the series needs more cases 2-4 but that's more because 2-4 is the best in the series.
---

NBIceman posted...

Remember, everyone, Phoenix/Maya is the OTP.

Get out.
---

7. The Nameless One (Planescape: Torment)

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/torment/images/c/c7/PC-NamelessOne.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100421052454

"What can change the nature of a man?"

This quote is not actually spoken by TNO, but it's the mantra of Planescape: Torment and is more relevant to him than any other line from that game.

You know nothing about The Nameless One when you first see him - and neither does he. He wakes up on a slab in a mortuary, completely bereft of any memories, while a talking skull claiming to be his ally starts blabbing to him and offers to read the message carved onto your back. It's probably the most bafflling introduction to a protagonist I've ever seen, made even more effective by how utterly strange his appearence is. Despite having the physique of a stereotypical D&D hero, his hair is wiry, his skin has a mottled gray color and is pulled tight across his muscles, and there are lines of age etched across every inch of his body. The Nameless One looks less like a person and more like a zombie - which is honestly not far from the truth.

The more you learn about The Nameless One, the more you're less sure of who he is. Cursed to never fully die and losing his memories every now and then, TNO has lived dozens of lives and left a deep scar on the world with each one. Traces of 'you' pop up everywhere you look, and little of it is...pleasant. One of the first sentient beings you encounter is a ghost who voluntarily bound herself to a singular spot, for all eternity, for the sake of helping you, because of a love she holds for you, that you openly do not reciprocate. That...kind of sets the tone from then-on. If I had to pick one thing to describe as a commonality between all of The Nameless One's lives, it would be 'selfish'. Even your nicer incarnations were self-centered and willing to use others without much hesitation. And why wouldn't they be? What repercussions could they ever truly face for their actions? And will you, the most recent incarnation of The Nameless One, be any different?

Can you be any different?

The Nameless One is both a player-insert character and not one. You are him, the one waking up on the slab in the mortuary, but while you control his actions and make his decisions, both of you are shaped and guided by the echoes of your past lives. The question Planescape: Torment poses is "what can change the nature of a man?", and it is through the character of The Nameless One that that question is explored in fascinating detail. Torment: Tides of Numenara - a spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment - came out recently with a protagonist very similar to The Nameless One, and while the game is great, its writing doesn't come close to what Planescape accomplished with TNO. In terms of WRPG choose-your-own-personality main characters, he's easily the best of them all, and I doubt he'll ever be topped (sorry Shepard).
---

I always thought Phoenix was fine but a little too vanilla to be a top favorite. I always thought Edgeworth was way better.

Hell by the 6th game I thought Apollo was way better than Phoenix
---

Oh right. Edgeworth. Chock up another character who probably would've been on my list if I had remembered him. Here's his writeup:

Edgeworth is a cool dude with a good character arc and is a great foil to Phoenix. "Objection! That's...objectionable!" is one of the best lines in the series. His time spent as a defense attorney in 3-5 is hilarious. Edgeworth helps make the 1st game as great as it is, and after his character arc has most concluded he wisely limits himself to appearing just every now and then so he still feels like a special character.
---

Yeah, I honestly prefer Edgeworth to Phoenix as well. And Godot, for that matter.

Phoenix is still great, though.
---

Phoenix > Edgeworth > Maya > Godot > Apollo

All pretty darn great though.
---

Indeed! Verily, I say... ergo!
---

I can think of at least 10 characters I like more than Phoenix but that's just me..
---

I've always preferred Edgeworth too. He definitely would make a top 40 list.
---

6. Raiden (Metal Gear Solid series)

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--zjhMSj5s--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/pyng97ky8wixxtsuhxzn.png

"They -- they built us from the ground up, into killing machines... We were fed once a day. I can still taste the gunpowder they mixed into the food."

Raiden is kind of a schizophrenic character. He's gone through many changes over the years as the series has continually re-tooled him to fit the purposes of each new game. In Metal Gear Solid 2, he was a vehicle for the story, subverting the player's expectations of playing as the Legendary Solid Snake in order to further the game's narrative. Then people rebelled against the character, so in Metal Gear Solid 4 he was turned into a flippy cyborg ninja trying really hard to be stoically cool and spouting off awful/amazing one-liners. Then Platinum took the reins with Metal Gear Rising and changed Raiden again to better fit that game's atmosphere of fun, high-energy action, making him into a more lighthearted, sarcastic version of his MGS4 self...who is also trying not to go crazy with gleeful bloodlust. Yeah. Considering how jerked around Raiden is both in-game and out-of-game, it's amazing that it all comes together to make a great of a character as he is.

My favorite 'version' of Raiden will always be his MGS2 incarnation. It's the one I first got really attached to. While I can understand why Raiden on release would have pissed people off - the degree to which they hid him from the marketing was frankly impressive - but I played MGS2 well after the fact and knew that he would be kicking Solid Snake to the curb fairly soon into the game, so the twist didn't bother me. If anything, I was looking forward to what Raiden was going to be like. What kind of director would sideline their iconic, beloved mascot/protagonist of their series in favor of a character that probably wasn't going to go over well with their established fanbase?

Kojima's given a lot of varying reasons for why he made Raiden the way he did, but one of the more consistent ones is that he wanted Raiden to be more a player surrogate than Solid Snake, which is supported by how you get to type in your own name at the beginning of MGS2. On that front - at least for me - he failed. I never viewed Raiden as being any more similar to me than Solid Snake was, and not because I thought he was lame like a lot of people did on-release. Raiden interested me from the start as own person from the moment he changed his codename away from Snake. His conversations with Campbell were stiff and far too formal, even when taking into consideration that he lacked the same relationship with Campbell that Snake did in MGS1. He was described as a rookie with nothing but VR training under his belt but clearly knew what he was doing, outpacing elite troops and even Snake himself at times. His relationship with Rose was corny but actually kind of sweet and gave Raiden something to live for outside of the mission. And while there were some iffy lines like "Did you say nerd?" and "We've MANAGED to avoid DROWNING!", I though Quinton Flynn did an excellent job portraying him. Raiden was different, and Raiden wasn't Snake, but that was okay. Raiden just had to be Raiden.
---

I think the moment where I really started to take a closer look at Raiden is one line where, after shooting down the Harrier, he flat-out tells Snake that if he could he would be "Out of here in a second". Raiden does not want to be on the Big Shell, cleaning up the mess that Solidus and co. made, but he was never given the choice. This concept of choice and free will was repeatedly expanded on and I found it all pretty engrossing. Raiden was raised from a young age to be an unthinking weapon, so he never had a choice in whether or not he became a killer - let alone one so vicious that he was dubbed Jack the Ripper. Raiden fell in love with Rose, but it was a relationship based on lies as she tailored herself to be his ideal woman, so that was barely a choice either. He was sent to the Big Shell against his wishes, then fed misinformation, then fed further misinformation that was phrased as the 'truth' because the previous information was admitted to be a lie. From the moment he was born, Raiden was not allowed to think for himself or be his own person. For me, the bit that ties it all together is when Rose mentions that his room resembles a threadbare dungeon with no personal furnishings whatsoever. Raiden has no self. He's not allowed to have a self.

The poor guy gets jerked around by literally everyone in MGS2 (except the Emmerich siblings because they're too good for this world). Probably the most demoralizing line in the game is how, after Raiden has a heartfelt conversation with Snake about passing on your legacy, the GW AI directly tells Raiden that his newfound philosophy is just "something Snake told him" and that he's still not thinking for himself. It's not until Raiden throws away his dog tags in the ending cutscene that it really feels like he's freed himself from at least some of the shackles the world put on him, and it's an extremely powerful moment (in an understated sort of way). MGS2 Raiden is a fascinating character with an arc I've revisited many times. He's not as effortlessly cool as Snake is but I still liked him a lot and was really hoping for things to get better for him.

Then MGS4 happened. Raiden in MGS4 is okay, but it doesn't really feel like him. Kojima was trying too hard to make him cool. That's the exact opposite opinion of a lot of people but hey, my list my rules! There's something to be said about Raiden - the human raised to an unthinking weapon - willingly becoming a weapon so he could protect those he cares about, but whatever statement that could have made is sidelined in favor of more ninja flips. Still, his scene with Rose at the end is one of my favorites in the series and "I am lightning, the rain transformed" is the best worst line I've ever heard in my life, so I still liked him.
---

Then Metal Gear Rising came out and did the impossible feat of fusing Raiden's MGS2 and MGS4 iterations while furthering his character all at the same time. He's still got the vaguely rebellious/sarcastic attitude he had in MGS2, and he's still dedicated to fighting against oppressive authority, but he also kept the ninja flips and cuts a Metal Gear RAY in half in the first half-hour of gameplay. In the same vein as Dante, Raiden in Metal Gear Rising is extremely fun to play as because he's over-the-top and sounds like he's having the time of his life - which actually ties into his character arc, where his Jack the Ripper origins come full circle. Raiden has to save children being 'programmed' from birth into soldiers the same way he was while also dealing with the killer instinct that never really left him. Considering the game wasn't written by Kojima, it's really impressive how the details of his previous characterization were paid attention to. His eventual character arc of 'it's okay to be a crazy killer as long as it's for a cause I believe in' is not the lesson most heroes learn, but it's true to his character. Then he gets to a fight a senator (made of nanomachines) trying to control the public consciousness. On top of a Metal Gear. MGR got to have its cake and eat it too.

I just really like Raiden. The MGS series imploding is sad and all, but I'm most disappointed about losing the possible Rising sequel than I am MGS6. Raiden still had places his character could have gone, and I would have loved to see what strange thing the writers did to him next.
---