Current Events > BREAKING Trump releases FISA memo!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Chris Wallace and Shep Smith are ripping into this right now for it being such a "Watergate moment"

Also shitting all over Nunes
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Nomadic View posted...

Yes, I do. Its self evident in the plain language. If they used other sources then there is no need to submit documents they know are false.

You have no idea how FISA warrants work. And you could have just said that in the beginning and saved all of us time.

My mistake. Please educate me.
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shockthemonkey posted...

Mr_Biscuit posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

This was posted in another topic:

BLAKUboy posted...

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/959494066840002560

This guy is giving the memo far more attention than it deserves, but it's good to have this thing utterly decimated.

Fake news

The Trump Squad is never going to acknowledge this anyway, but itll be fun to repost it and quote it a bunch to make it more obvious that theyre ignoring it.

this. anyone with a brain knows trump is putins bitch at this point after the mountains of evidence to suggest that he is now refusing to enforce sanctions (illegally) that he himself signed and congress almost unanimously passed
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what is known to be false about the dossier, anyway? I haven't seen anyone say what is conclusively false (the best defense I've seen is what darkjedilink posted which asserts the dossier must be false because it doesn't make sense based on timing and content but that is clearly debatable -- it says that the allegations against Cohen 'fail the veracity test' but offers no reason for this except that Cohen denied doing it, for isntance)
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Nomadic View posted...

My mistake. Please educate me.

FISA warrants are repeatedly updated every 90 days and the ones who request it have to provide new evidence. Four different judges signed off on this for Page. They are also dozens upon dozens of pages long, with a multitude of things sourced. If, and hopefully, we get the chance to read the entire warrant, we will get the full picture on what was offered on why these different judges agreed with the FBI.

To assume what Nunes said is everything is crazy.
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Balrog0 posted...

what is known to be false about the dossier, anyway? I haven't seen anyone say what is conclusively false (the best defense I've seen is what darkjedilink posted which asserts the dossier must be false because it doesn't make sense based on timing and content but that is clearly debatable -- it says that the allegations against Cohen 'fail the veracity test' but offers no reason for this except that Cohen denied doing it, for isntance)

nothing about it is proven false at all, trumpanzees are just desperately calling it false without any evidence of it being so
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also republicans and even fox news are saying this is irrelevant, it was just a last ditch attempt by the increasingly embattled trump admin to muddy the waters in an act of desperation
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shockthemonkey posted...

andel posted...

also republicans and even fox news are saying this is irrelevant, it was just a last ditch attempt by the increasingly embattled trump admin to muddy the waters in an act of desperation

Even Fox News is admitting that?

Depends on the host. Shep Smith absolutely is, and Chris Wallace didn't come out and say that but completely implied it. Even some of his more hardliners around noon were saying there's really not much there but it still shows violations.
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shockthemonkey posted...

andel posted...

also republicans and even fox news are saying this is irrelevant, it was just a last ditch attempt by the increasingly embattled trump admin to muddy the waters in an act of desperation

Even Fox News is admitting that?

yeah they are basically saying it changes nothing which is true. this will not impact mueller in the slightest
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Trump with the final nail in the coffin to the DNC.

Gotta wait to see Fox and Friend's reaction to this, that will decide the ultimate say on the matter.
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tommybel89 posted...

Pay attention to the Clinton Foundation and ask why they downsized massively after the election. Why would people just stop donating to the charity all of a sudden?

Because Bill Clinton is retired, Hillary Clinton was not elected an has stepped out of the public realm, and I'd imagine like most people of retirement age that have had long stressful careers they'd like to enjoy some life before they die. So scale down the donation and suggest better charities for people to donate to. Like the Gates foundation.



What is at all suss about that

Bill Clinton is a skeez, I wouldn't be surprised if he's implicated alongside Trump with regards to minors. But he's also not who ran for election over a year ago. He has been out of office for over 17 years damn. Trump's in office now and apparently still up to nefarious things.

When people point to the bad behavior of Trump the appropriate thing to do is not immediately pointing at a Clinton and saying "but they did..."
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Like, Carter Page was under investigation for years before the dossier was even a thing. And the Trump team has incessantly said he had no part of the campaign. Yet they decide that THIS is the person to burn any good will that was left between the WH and the FBI and DoJ?

Lmao

ledbowman posted...

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I would honestly bet that Trumps advisors said this wasnt wise to release and he said fuck it
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There are too many terrible lines of argument in this topic to address all of them, but here are a few responses:

1. Steele was not paid to report to the FBI and it certainly isn't stated that he was so in this memo. Occasionally being an FBI contact doesn't make anything you research automatically reported to the FBI, and in fact the GPS transcript goes into great detail describing the work situation in this instance.

2. There's no indication that Steele's bias has anything to do with Trump's political positions, support for a particular party, etc. He previously described Trump as being extremely susceptible to blackmail, which is a great reason to not want someone to be president.

3. Being part of a presidential campaign does not make you immune to FISA warrants. There appears to be more than enough evidence to have a FISA warrant against Page that is unrelated to his working on the Trump campaign. Characterizing this as "spying on Trump" or "spying on his campaign" is disingenuous.

4. There's no indication that the FBI even now believes that the dossier is false. In addition, the nature of human intelligence gathering by CIA/MI6/etc. is that much of this is recounting of what specific sources said, not an endorsement of any particular piece of intelligence. This is taken into account when evaluating human intelligence.

5. Republicans and Democrats both paid for the dossier and it doesn't matter who paid for it if the person who is collecting the intelligence doesn't know who the client is (as also outlined in the GPS transcript).

Antifar posted...

Useful thread

https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/959488349684760577

This and the earlier tweet re: warrants for immigrants are both spot on. There are vague assertions by the memo that the evidence is bad for the FBI because...it was too easy for them to get a FISA warrant? That doesn't seem like a hill that the "law and order" Republicans really want to die on.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

I would honestly bet that Trumps advisors said this wasnt wise to release and he said fuck it

yeah trump is a moron which is actually good for people that care about our country and aren't happy to support a traitor
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andel posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

Mr_Biscuit posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

This was posted in another topic:

BLAKUboy posted...

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/959494066840002560

This guy is giving the memo far more attention than it deserves, but it's good to have this thing utterly decimated.

Fake news

The Trump Squad is never going to acknowledge this anyway, but itll be fun to repost it and quote it a bunch to make it more obvious that theyre ignoring it.

this. anyone with a brain knows trump is putins bitch at this point after the mountains of evidence to suggest that he is now refusing to enforce sanctions (illegally) that he himself signed and congress almost unanimously passed

Here's @Nomadic_View after this.


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Don't have time to read 300 posts.

Can someone @ me with a summary of this topic
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@littlebro07 posted...

Don't have time to read 300 posts.

Can someone @ me with a summary of this topic

Anteaterking posted...

There are too many terrible lines of argument in this topic to address all of them, but here are a few responses:

1. Steele was not paid to report to the FBI and it certainly isn't stated that he was so in this memo. Occasionally being an FBI contact doesn't make anything you research automatically reported to the FBI, and in fact the GPS transcript goes into great detail describing the work situation in this instance.

2. There's no indication that Steele's bias has anything to do with Trump's political positions, support for a particular party, etc. He previously described Trump as being extremely susceptible to blackmail, which is a great reason to not want someone to be president.

3. Being part of a presidential campaign does not make you immune to FISA warrants. There appears to be more than enough evidence to have a FISA warrant against Page that is unrelated to his working on the Trump campaign. Characterizing this as "spying on Trump" or "spying on his campaign" is disingenuous.

4. There's no indication that the FBI even now believes that the dossier is false. In addition, the nature of human intelligence gathering by CIA/MI6/etc. is that much of this is recounting of what specific sources said, not an endorsement of any particular piece of intelligence. This is taken into account when evaluating human intelligence.

5. Republicans and Democrats both paid for the dossier and it doesn't matter who paid for it if the person who is collecting the intelligence doesn't know who the client is (as also outlined in the GPS transcript).

Antifar posted...

Useful thread

https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/959488349684760577

This and the earlier tweet re: warrants for immigrants are both spot on. There are vague assertions by the memo that the evidence is bad for the FBI because...it was too easy for them to get a FISA warrant? That doesn't seem like a hill that the "law and order" Republicans really want to die on.

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Zodd3224 posted...

I fell out of my chair in disbelief at the sheer MAGNITUDE of this memo. Nothing will ever be the same again. From now on time will be referred to as PM (Pre Memo) and AM (After Memo)

Lol @Zodd3224
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This is the equivalent of a police office planting drugs in your car when he pulls you over and using that as reason to arrest you and evidence to convict you.

But for some reason liberals defend these treasonous actions by the dems.

It's the epitome of hypocrisy.
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littlebro07 posted...

Don't have time to read 300 posts.

Can someone @ me with a summary of this topic

@littlebro07 politics
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HypnoCoosh posted...

This is the equivalent of a police office planting drugs in your car when he pulls you over and using that as reason to arrest you and evidence to convict you.

no, it's not.

Democrats just uncovered evidence of wrongdoing through normal politics and turned that evidence over to the FBI.

so this would be equivalent to a rival gang finding evidence another gang committed crimes and sending that to the cops.

its funny how you aren't even responding to anything in this thread, you just chime in ever ~30 posts and paste the same old dribble with slightly different wording while not addressing anyone's responses to it.
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HypnoCoosh posted...

This is the equivalent of a police office planting drugs in your car when he pulls you over and using that as reason to arrest you and evidence to convict you.
But for some reason liberals defend these treasonous actions by the dems.
It's the epitome of hypocrisy.

2/ Second, understand that it's common practice in the justice system for law enforcement to use informants who have conflicts of interest to secure a warrant. Here, the informant, former MI6 Russia desk chief Chris Steele, didn't know who his client was and had no such conflict.
4/ Fourth, understand that the FBI had information beyond the information in the Steele Dossier when it secured a FISA warrant on Carter Page, and that the warrant went through judicial review, and that it was renewed multiple times because it had yielded actionable intelligence.
5/ So the context for the Nunes memo is this: a fairly routine informant practice wasas part of a larger stock of informationused to meet the relatively low standard of proof required to get a FISA warrant from a federal judge.
16/ It says FISA warrant applications must meet the "highest standard" of proof in the justice system. Uh, no. The "highest standard" in the justice system is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt," which is nowhere *close* to the legal standard required to secure a search warrant.
17/ The legal standard for securing a warrant is the *lowest* standard of proof in the law"probable cause." (Consider: *indictments* require probable cause, which is why they say "the average grand jury would indict a ham sandwich.") FISA warrants are granted in 99%+ of cases.
21/ The memo then makes *another* error of law on its first page: saying the law requires "all relevant and material facts" to be shown to a warrant-granting court. But that's not true. Many cases confirm that law enforcement can and does leave out key facts without repercussion.
24/ Because we have an adversarial system of justice, and because the standard of proof to secure a warrant is so low, judges *never* expect (and almost *never* find) that the government included "all information potentially favorable to the defendant" in its warrant application.
25/ Let me be blunt, law-and-order types: if our justice system worked the way the Nunes Memo says it doesthank god it doesn'tour crime rate would be ten times higher and our criminal justice system wouldn't have the resources to operate. Jail doors would have to be flung open.
26/ Page 2 is worse. It says Steele prepared the dossier "on behalf of" the DNC and Clintonsuggesting he knew he was working for them, or that he *was* working for them, which he wasn't. He was working for Fusion GPS as a sub-contractorand had no idea who Fusion's clients were.
27/ This is a critical pointas this lie is the one Nunes uses to argue that Steele both had a conflict of interest and was biased, when in fact neither was true. Steele was not getting paid to please the DNC and/or Clinton because he literally did not know his work was for them.
28/ Second lie: that Steele was paid by the DNC and/or Clinton. Totally false. Steele was paid by Fusion GPS and did not know who Fusion was working for. Fusion was paid by a law firm, which in turn was paid by the DNC. But Fusion had previously worked for GOP clients on Trump.
29/ Indeed, Fusion worked for GOP clientsdigging for info on Trumpfor *eight months*. Fusion had worked for a Democratic client for just 30 days when its sub-contractor (Steele) said, without knowing who Fusion's client was, that he wanted to go to the FBI with his information.
30/ In other words, this memo is written like a campaign adnot an official document, and *certainly* not a legal document. It gets every fact wrong and every point of law wrong and *wildly* so. This is an embarrassing piece of work, but I'll keep on analyzing it anyway. We must.
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hypnocoosh is totally an independent guys, he just regurgitates debunked talking points from breitbart and the like lmao
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When people like Addy and Mal aren't commenting on this, then you know that this isn't a big deal.
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shockthemonkey posted...

This was posted in another topic:

BLAKUboy posted...

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/959494066840002560

This guy is giving the memo far more attention than it deserves, but it's good to have this thing utterly decimated.

3/ Third, understand that the CIA told the BBC in January '17 that the most controversial allegation in Steele's dossierthe allegation the Kremlin has blackmail material on Trump of a sexual naturewas true. This means the CIA had likely told the FBI the same many months before.

That's a lie. Some alleged CIA spooks allegedly told Paul Wood that the claims were "credible". They clearly weren't of the belief that the allegations were true given the later testimony by IC officials to the House committee. If they had told the FBI that many months before, they would have lied to them which would only bolster Nunes's case.

The warrant then produced *spectacular* results.

Indeed, the man against whom the warrant was directed, Page, turned out to have lied repeatedly to the public about his many contacts with Kremlin officials and Kremlin-connected Rosneft executives.

The man has lied about many things to make himself look more impressive. Many of these falsehoods had nothing to do with the Russians. He's like one of those guys who imagines themselves as war heroes and collects military medals to pass off as their own to impress people around them. Most of these exaggerations/lies were uncovered not from the FISA warrant but from documents handed over to Mueller by Carter's legal team. I read his whole testimony and am 100% convinced that he is innocent of the allegations alleged in the Steele dossier.

the specific FISA standard is "probable cause that the target is an 'agent of a foreign power' who's 'knowingly engaging in clandestine intelligence activities.'" Remember: the FBI already found thatas to Pagein a 2013 probe.

The memo states that each renewal requires a separate finding of "probable cause". It contends that the Steele dossier was not a valid reason to renew the extension given its origins as politically funded opposition research. That's the meat of the memo.

nunes & gaetz are now backtracking on the accuracy of the memo saying they didnt write it and are blaming staffers
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Bluebomber182 posted...

nunes & gaetz are now backtracking on the accuracy of the memo saying they didnt write it and are blaming staffers

lol now all the people gonna feel stupid for defending it
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https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/959527253662199809

also made a separate topic bout it
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Bishop9800 posted...

When people like Addy and Mal aren't commenting on this, then you know that this isn't a big deal.

I don't know yet, but I don't trust people like Seth Abramson. He made false claims about Paul Wood's reporting for the BBC. I recognized that right away. He also insinuated that one finding of probable cause in 2013 was enough to indefinitely extend the FISA warrant. The memo, OTOH, cites a statute that supposedly states that a separate finding of probable cause is needed for each renewal. However, I'm not so sure after reading the statute in question.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1805

I need an unbiased source for the legalese, not a Russian-Trump guy who has motive to be deceptive.

Bluebomber182 posted...

nunes & gaetz are now backtracking on the accuracy of the memo saying they didnt write it and are blaming staffers

Stop making false statements.

One thing I don't understand: Just like 2 days ago the FBI was saying that releasing this memo could have consequences on national security due to the classified nature of the memo.

So if this is the memo... WTF was their big issue in the first place? I don't think the FBI as a whole is biased, but it seems a bit shady to go so apocalyptic on the release of what everyone here is saying is an inconsequential list of things people already knew.
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My mind is so unblown that I'm sitting here calmly, debating whether I should make lunch or not.
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not making any false statements dude. nunes is walking it back by saying his staff wrote it now
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Bluebomber182 posted...

not making any false statements dude. nunes is walking it back by saying his staff wrote it now

Unless I missed something, you quoted a tweet saying that CNN said that Gaetz said that Nunes didn't write the memo. At no point in that chain did Nunes himself say his staff wrote the memo.
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Bluebomber182 posted...

not making any false statements dude. nunes is walking it back by saying his staff wrote it now

That's correcting the record, not "walking back" because of the memo's accuracy. It was known yesterday that the lead investigator for this memo was Trey Gowdy and he's likely to guy who wrote it.

s0nicfan posted...

One thing I don't understand: Just like 2 days ago the FBI was saying that releasing this memo could have consequences on national security due to the classified nature of the memo.

So if this is the memo... WTF was their big issue in the first place? I don't think the FBI as a whole is biased, but it seems a bit shady to go so apocalyptic on the release of what everyone here is saying is an inconsequential list of things people already knew.

https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/959536877668728832

So word is the reason the FBI didn't want the memo released is NOT because they didn't want to look bad. It's because the memo lists the exact dates of when Carter Page was under surveillance. This means Russia now knows exactly what was heard by the FBI. #FISAMemo

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shockthemonkey posted...

Ammonitida posted...

Bishop9800 posted...

When people like Addy and Mal aren't commenting on this, then you know that this isn't a big deal.

I don't know yet, but I don't trust people like Seth Abramson. He made false claims about Paul Wood's reporting for the BBC. I recognized that right away. He also insinuated that one finding of probable cause in 2013 was enough to indefinitely extend the FISA warrant. The memo, OTOH, cites a statute that supposedly states that a separate finding of probable cause is needed for each renewal. However, I'm not so sure after reading the statute in question.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1805

I need an unbiased source for the legalese, not a Russian-Trump guy who has motive to be deceptive.

Yeah there are more than a few inaccuracies within the memo

It depends on how you read this;

Extensions of an order issued under this subchapter may be granted on the same basis as an original order upon an application for an extension and new findings made in the same manner as required for an original order,

The Great Muta 22 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

One thing I don't understand: Just like 2 days ago the FBI was saying that releasing this memo could have consequences on national security due to the classified nature of the memo.

So if this is the memo... WTF was their big issue in the first place? I don't think the FBI as a whole is biased, but it seems a bit shady to go so apocalyptic on the release of what everyone here is saying is an inconsequential list of things people already knew.

https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/959536877668728832

So word is the reason the FBI didn't want the memo released is NOT because they didn't want to look bad. It's because the memo lists the exact dates of when Carter Page was under surveillance. This means Russia now knows exactly what was heard by the FBI. #FISAMemo

That's not consistent with the original objections that spoke of "omissions" that would fundamentally alter the conclusions.

shockthemonkey posted...

The Great Muta 22 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

One thing I don't understand: Just like 2 days ago the FBI was saying that releasing this memo could have consequences on national security due to the classified nature of the memo.

So if this is the memo... WTF was their big issue in the first place? I don't think the FBI as a whole is biased, but it seems a bit shady to go so apocalyptic on the release of what everyone here is saying is an inconsequential list of things people already knew.

https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/959536877668728832

So word is the reason the FBI didn't want the memo released is NOT because they didn't want to look bad. It's because the memo lists the exact dates of when Carter Page was under surveillance. This means Russia now knows exactly what was heard by the FBI. #FISAMemo

That makes a lot of sense.

Sort of... I mean it was implied that it wasn't so simple to declassify... why didn't they just redact the dates? That's an easy fix, and if that was their concern it would have been part of the declassified version.
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