Board 8 > Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1278

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kirby beating Sonic that one year was one of the most bizarre upsets ever. Not as bizarre as Vivi > Mario, but it's close.
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in the case of Crono, consistently falling strength

This is wrong. I'm sure Crono can beat N9ers like Sonic, Megaman and challenege Sephy.

Crono hasn't beaten a Noble Niner since 2008 (and that's only because Link was there to LFF Mario and Samus). Before that, you have to go back to 2005.
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Given Chrono Trigger's performance in 2015 I wouldn't completely rule out Crono against a noble nine character.

I likely wouldn't take him over anyone, but I'd be a bit nervous until we see him in action in round 1 or 2.
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Yeah, it's hard to say based on Chrono Trigger's performance in 2015, but Crono did get beaten fairly easily by Mario in the 2013 bonus match, and that was even with Mega Man X there potentially dragging Mario down a little bit.
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Crono is undoubtedly the weakest N9er by far. It would take a perfect storm for Crono > Sonic (or similar) to happen.
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I wouldn't go that far
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It's not like Sonic has looked at all good since that long ago victory over Crono in 2006.

And considering:
-In 2013 Frog got 36% on Cloud (in a threeway at that; there was another option if you just wanted to antivote FFVII!)
-In 2010 Sephiroth was worth 45% on Cloud through Snake
-In 2015 CT T looked outright stronger than FFVII

Crono might not necessarily beat Sephiroth but I think he'd at least get fairly close.
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Crono was the first Noble Niner to lose to a non-Noble Niner in:

1) a one-on-one twelve-hour match (lost to Missingno)
2) a three-way match (lost to Pikachu with Magus)
3) a four-way match (lost to Vincent with Link and Zero)
4) a rivalry match (lost to Liquid Snake in Crono/Lavos VS Solid/Liquid)

It doesn't mean he can't beat another Noble Niner -- especially after how powerful CT looked in the last game contest -- but he's been the first one to break in every format besides one-on-one twenty-four hour matches (which the Noble Nine remains undefeated in).

I might take Crono > Sonic, but more likely I see him at the weakest link of the Noble Nine in the next contest.
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Crono and Sonic are most likely the weakest links in the Noble Nine. Sonic's always been near the bottom, and Crono has been since 2006. Cloud and particularly Sephiroth's standing in the Noble Nine these days is pretty interesting. I don't view Cloud as vulnerable to Sonic or Crono, but Sephiroth might be.

I think Cloud might actually be the underdog in a match against Mario, Snake, or even Samus these days though. Not sure where Mega Man stands in all this.
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Cloud gets Smash SFF'd now
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The thing about Chrono Trigger is that I think it's been a benefactor of the site's userbase decreasing, leaving behind a core audience that considers it one of the all-time greats. I believe that is why it crushed the 2015 Games contest all the way until the second hour of that match with Melee.

Whether or not this would extend to Crono is a bit debatable. I look at that Crono/Pikachu/Magus match from 2013, and I think it actually looks really good for Crono considering the absolute tear Pokemon went on to have in that contest. I wouldn't put Crono in the upper tier of the Noble Nine, but I would easily take him above Crono or Mega Man.

Now, if there's a name that I would put in the lower tier that might be a shock, I'd say Snake has probably fallen off. When MGS has a main game release in the horizon or in recent memory, he can do well. But I think with the series falling off in the last couple years, it could hurt him pretty badly. I certainly don't see him upsetting Cloud any time soon.
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_SecretSquirrel posted...

I wouldn't put Crono in the upper tier of the Noble Nine, but I would easily take him above Crono

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Yeah I won't be surprised if Snake is considerably weaker this year, he has absolute no reason to be more powerful or even retain his strength. I agree with SecretSquirrel that CT/Crono is getting a boost out of "benefactor of the site's userbase decreasing, leaving behind a core audience that considers it one of the all-time greats".

Crono definitely beats Sonic, Crono's 40% on Pikachu is rather impressive considering any given Pokemon (except for Charizard lol) was really strong that year. Mega Man too has been weak as hell for many years but that victory over Charizard was one of the most impressive win we've ever seen, really not sure how well he'd hold up now. Even Sephy is quite vulnerable at this point, seeing just how okay-ish performances he put up. He lost to Mewtwo by a sizable amount, although you could say that was because of anti-rally fellows and Pokemon having a huge online presence.

If I had to rank, I'd go

Link > Mario > Cloud > Snake = Samus > Sephiroth > Crono = Mega Man > Sonic

Sephiroth got boned by Pokemon and Draven rallies going at it. I wouldn't hold that match against him at all. Honestly, I thought he held up fairly well, all things considered.
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Characters Left For Zen To Write Up From 2002

Tidus
Claire Redfield
Samus Aran
Ken Masters
Ryu
CATS
Mega Man
Ms. Pac-Man
Serious Sam
Mr. Driller
Sephiroth
Gabe Logan
Crash Bandicoot
Ulala

2003 Newcomers

AiAi
Ganondorf
Sam Fisher
Magus
Luigi
Ratchet
KOS-MOS
Isaac (Golden Sun)
Auron
Bowser
Ness
Yoshi
Conker
Sora
Master Chief
Felix
Zero
Captain Olimar
Wario
Shadow The Hedgehog
Kefka
Tom Nook
Ramza
Raiden
Yuna
Vyse
Tommy Vercetti
Kite
Zelda
Mr. Resetti

2004 Newcomers

Luca Blight
JC Denton
Earthworm Jim
Protoman
Frog
Liquid Snake
Tanner
Laharl
Kain (Legacy Of Kain)
Jak
Vivi
Sly Cooper
Viewtiful Joe
HK-47
Ryu Hayabusa

2005 Newcomers

Joanna Dark
Carl Johnson
Lloyd Irving
Albert Wesker
Yuri Hyuga
Riku
Big Boss
Manny Calavera
Kratos (God Of War)
Agent 47
Cecil
King Of All Cosmos
Chun-Li
Rikku
Zidane Tribal
Terra Branford
Sarah Kerrigan
Vincent Valentine
Geno
Jin Kazama
Kratos Aurion
Diablo
Tifa Lockhart
Leon Kennedy
Revolver Ocelot

whoa thank you preston, you are a hero

i had a busy few days at work and also took some time to see infinity war, i was going to write a bit today

thank you all for humoring me as a fumble through long-forgotten parts of my memory
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hi it's me ZenOfThunder, and after 15 minutes of trying to get my computer to stop freezing i'm back

back to make people argue about Crono's relevance in 2018 (hint: there is none. 0 relevance.)

haha i kid, Crono has at least 1 relevance, maybe even 1.5!

shoutouts to Preston for making me a big list of characters I still need to go through! Can't wait until a year from now when I get to Reyn!

Tidus
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Dissidia Final Fantasy NT (2018)

I don't know if anybody remembers but when I first stopped lurking on this board and started posting I was like the A#1 Tidus hater, I thought he was a big dumb baby, but as it turns out, I was the big dumb baby

Tidus isn't the best character ever but he certainly has more going for him than Lightning. I believe people stopped calling him Meg Ryan around 2010, which ironically is the time he lost to Sub-Zero in R1. 2013 was also not kind to Tidus, he had the chance to stop Missingno in the first round and fell just a few votes short... Just as he did to Weighted Companion Cube in 2008. It says a lot that people vote glitches and boxes over Tidus.

So where does that place Tidus now? It's hard to say, the guy is the main character of one of the most beloved Final Fantasy games, but he's still... Tidus. There are people who like him, people who used to hate him and now just tolerate him, and a small but vocal minority that will take every opportunity to link you to some fresh hot new remix of the laugh scene.

speaking of which have you seen this HILARIOUS mashup of Big Bang Theory and Tidus' laugh?!?!?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cyx6nWdFas" data-time="

I think Tidus has fallen about as far as he can fall, he's always going to be a FF main character and even if he's not well liked he'll always carry a good amount of strength, but he'll never be able to do damage like Auron or to some extent Yuna and even Jecht. Being the main character can only get you so far. If Tidus ever drops to the fodder level I'd be surprised.

Claire Redfield
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Resident Evil Revelations 2/Collection (2015/17)

Revelations 2 got quite a good amount of buzz when it came out, and it's seen as part of the resurgence of interest and return to form of the Resident Evil franchise.

But what does that mean for Claire? She's always been on the border of what I'd consider "contest viable Resident Evil characters." She got into 2002 because someone on CE or CJayC liked her, in 2006 she only got in because "girl," and in 2013 she got in because she had a fanbase large enough to net her a 24 seed (which isn't much of an accomplishment)

That talk surrounding Revelations 2 shifted very quickly to RE7, to the point that if I had to bet whether Jack Baker or Claire would get into the next Character Battle, I might actually pick Jack. People were rallying to see Jack in Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite, not Claire unfortunately. Her fanbase isn't as massive or undying as Leon's or even Chris (bleh). Other than Revelations 2 she really hasn't had any major appearances, from Code Veronica to Rev2 she was only in games like Mercenaries and... Operation Raccoon City. Hard to stay relevant with nothing but bit parts.

Resident Evil has some great and iconic characters, it's a shame Nemesis barely gets a fair shot in these things. Claire is great in the games but just not viable in these contests. She might be a little stronger due to Revelations 2, but it's been a while since that came out. I doubt she'll be back any time soon.
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Samus
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Metroid: Samus Returns (2017), Metroid Prime: Federation Force (2016)

It's been 8 years since the disaster we call "Other M." Samus has had some Smash games and some bad spinoffs since then, but what really shows how much people love her is that Nintendo slapped a "Samus Returns" in the title of her new game. Either that or they want people to stop calling her "Metroid."

Are there any other examples of that? Media where the character's name becomes the title. You've got First Blood becoming Rambo: First Blood Part II and you've got the Tomb Raider movies being called Lara Croft: Tomb Raider. Am I missing anything else obvious?

Back on subject: Samus is Samus, even in 2010 when she was hot off the heels of Other M, people still loved her unconditionally. It wasn't Sonic 06 or anything, Samus was still cool, and she was sure to have a proper game and a return to form eventually, right?

Right?

Well it didn't matter much as in 2013 she managed to comfortably beat out Mega Man and Red in a match that I'm sure was caked in a dozen levels of SFF and LFF that we can't begin to break down, and she made a showing out of absolutely demolishing Tifa and L-Block. She didn't do great against Snake or Draven but that's probably because so much weight was being thrown behind Snake just to give him a shot at stopping the LoL machine.

So where does Samus go from here? It doesn't seem like absence did any damage to her, if anything, her fanbase has become so outspoken and vocal about her absence that they've basically deified her.

Whenever something like Federation Force was released, Nintendo would be the villains and Samus would be the innocent victim. Which... is true, because Samus is not a real person and doesn't make her own games (although the same logic does not seem to apply to Sonic. Do people think Sonic is on SEGA's board and decides to make his own games shitty? Is Alex Kidd on the same board and tells people that nobody wants an Alex Kidd game? What reality do we live in?).

We've finally got Metroid Prime 4 and we got a 3DS remake that people wouldn't shut up about for like two weeks straight so "absence" is no longer an issue. We also have another Smash to look forward to, and if more footage gets shown at E3 it'll probably give her an additional boost.

It's safe to say Samus will be a huge threat in this upcoming contest. Let's hope Bacon puts her on a path where she gets to meet either Snake or Cloud again.

Ken Masters
Last Contest: 2010
Last Game: Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection (2018), Street Fighter IV Championship Edition (2017), Street Fighter V (2016)

Ken has one major problem: He's not Ryu. Maybe in canon he's arguably stronger than Ryu but he's still the 2nd player character. He's "Red Ryu" to a lot of people. Ryu is just cooler and he gets to be in the center of the covers.

Street Fighter V was not well received by the FGC and Ken got a really polarizing makeover in it, so he's probably at the same strength or worse than he was in 2010 when he barely beat Wesker and got punked by the Dorf. I don't know if nostalgia would give him a boost because he's not Ryu.

Ken has potential to be good bracket filler but he didn't even make it into 2013, which says a lot about his fanbase. There's just so many better options in the SF roster. Ken is no Luigi.
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I think Sonic might be alright now, thanks to Sonic Mania. To be honest, my gut says Mega Man is the weak link of the NN now. He's got a new game coming out, but the hype is pretty meh. I'd go:
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Ryu
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection (2018), Street Fighter IV Championship Edition (2017), Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite (2017), Street Fighter V (2016)

Can you believe Ryu was just a 15 seed in 2013? Since then he's become an honorary Nintendo character with his own amiibo! That's enough for me to confidently say "yes, Ryu will be stronger this year."

Ryu performed respectably against X in 2013 while they both got shit on by Draven. It's arguable if Mega Man SFF's Ryu; they're both in MvC games and are both Capcom icons and X even throws Hadokens from time-to-time, but they're both more in the pantheon of "video game icons" than just "Capcom icons."

That's good and bad for Ryu. People actually do love him past just being a figurehead. If you didn't know, GameFAQs is host to a huge lore guide for Street Fighter that gets referenced all the time by the FGC in terms of who is stronger in canon and the history of the universe. The guide is absolutely massive and highlights how much the SF fanbase love the universe and not just the gameplay.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps3/722788-ultra-street-fighter-iv/faqs/69921

Don't forget that Ryu managed to beat Dante back in the day! And Leon Kennedy! It's been 8 years since then but keep in mind that 2010 was not near any major releases for Ryu; it was a year before MvC3 and two years after Street Fighter IV and Tatsunoko vs. Capcom.

I mentioned before that Ryu had Smash 4 under his belt, but recently he had two huge stinkers in the forms of MvCI and SFV. Nobody touched MvCI but people still bring it up all the time to remind you that it sucked and nobody bought it, but Ryu usually doesn't get mentioned as the focus is more on the lack of the X-Men. SFV is still widely played because it's Street Fighter, and apparently the latest release fixed a lot of problems and added better characters, but people were really sour on it in the beginning.

Still, I think that all those appearances more help than hurt Ryu by keeping him relevant. He's one of those infallible icons with such a simple but appealing designs that I think he could have maybe been a Noble Niner if GameFAQs cared more about fighting games. There's a reason that every fighting game has a Shoto-clone.

People seem to just discredit Ryu because he's from a fighting game and has inconsistent levels of strength (he lost to Bowser then beat him the year after), but he'll definitely be one to watch depending on his bracket placement this year.

...

alright my girlfriend is making me fold laundry i'll brb

do not date 3D
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CATS
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Zero Wing (Arcade)(1989), Zero Wing (TurboGrafx 16)(1992)

I can't believe part of my research for this project now includes having to stop at KnowYourMeme to look up "All Your Base Are Belong To Us" in 2018

"With the 2017 release of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, pedestals that give Link magic runes or map information in his Sheikah Slate showed letters of the Sheikah Alphabet, a mythical language in The Legend of Zelda series. Some of the text reads: 'All Your Base Are.'"

a meme that will never die

Or in the context of these contests, never live. CATS is still the biggest loser, he's been in almost every contest (2010 he made the vote-ins but was last place) but he's never come close to winning. In 2013 he failed to break 10k votes. Is it over for CATS?

As long as Board 8 is around it's not! But... Is Board 8 around? It's still a surprisingly active community, and you have people who come and go even during a contest drought just to check in to see who is still here and if there's any news on a new contest. I myself haven't been around for almost three years. I'd taken to lurking. It's almost like we go into a state of hibernation with reduced activity.

The fact that this board is still together and active with a good community and little-to-no drama is astounding to me. Once the noms go up for the new contest, I expect some of the Board 8ers that time forgot will be back, and they'll be willing to nominate CATS because "why not?"

Although on the other hand, it's been five years since the last character battle, and so many new characters have been introduced and so many old characters have been reinvented or revitalized that there may not be enough room on everyone's ballot for a CATS nom.

Is it time to let CATS rest? That's like saying we finally should shut down the board. CATS the meme will never get a chance in these contests despite being a classic, but in the same light, Board 8 will never been seen as one of the internet's greatest gaming communities, despite how knowledgeable and amicable (mostly) everybody is. Even during my absence I still thought about Board 8 and the many years of happiness it brought me, and here I am, back and still writing about these contests.

I think we'll be seeing CATS again in CBX, and he's going to get blown out in round 1 just like old times. I wouldn't want it any other way.
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ZenOfThunder posted...

Are there any other examples of that? Media where the character's name becomes the title.

Indiana Jones was slapped on after Raiders I believe. Also Adventure of Link
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Mega Man
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Mega Man Legacy Collection 2 (2017), Super Mario Maker (2015), Mega Man Legacy Collection (2015)

It's been 8 years since the last proper Mega Man game (Mega Man 10), and since then he's really just had some glorified cameos, bit roles, crossovers and fan games to keep him relevant.

And that's just sad. Remember this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKXF_HM2PFA" data-time="

"Any gamer that knows games knows Mega Man."

Do kids still like Mega Man? I know that's not the main traffic on this site but it's a pertinent question for the future. Mario and Link still have mass appeal to all ages, and the other day I saw some kid playing a Sonic game on his iPad and having a good time.

But does Mega Man get marketed enough for kids to care? Those Battle Network games are a distant memory now. Kids seem to like Five Nights at Freddy's more than they do Mega Man nowadays.

That's not really the focus here, though. How is Mega Man in these contests? Well, Mega Man 11 got announced recently, and a lot of people seem happy with how it looks, although I saw a few folks foaming at the mouth and convulsing because Capcom dared to take away their coveted retro 8-bit art style, because Mega Man can't possibly be good if it's not 8-bit, even if the gameplay, enemy and level design are all solid.

If Mighty No. 9 shows us anything, it's that people want Mega Man. They need Mega Man. He's probably fallen quite a bit since 2013 where he ended up losing to Samus and beating Red in a match that, as I mentioned before, was an absolute mess of SFF and LFF, and was really hard to properly predict or even properly analyze.

It's not like people on this site forgot about Mega Man, it's just that their passion for the Blue Bomber might not be burning as brightly. It definitely was when he debuted in Smash 4, but that came and went almost four years ago now. Smash 5 might help if the timing is right, but unless Bacon delays the contest 'til the Fall or Winter it will be too late. Regardless, he'll probably do fine. We're in the middle of some kind of retro fever and Mega Man gets to be a part of it.

Never forget:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIIlIM9HlpQ" data-time="

(I still get chills)


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ZenOfThunder posted...

If you didn't know, GameFAQs is host to a huge lore guide for Street Fighter that gets referenced all the time by the FGC in terms of who is stronger in canon and the history of the universe.

I discovered this thing at least a decade ago and it is a treasure. As a SF fanboy, I love it.

Big Bob posted...

I think Sonic might be alright now, thanks to Sonic Mania. To be honest, my gut says Mega Man is the weak link of the NN now. He's got a new game coming out, but the hype is pretty meh. I'd go:

I've been sitting around for an hour now waiting for the rest of this post
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Ms. Pac-Man
Last Contest: 2002
Last Game: Pac-Man Museum (2014), Mario Kart Arcade GP 2 (2007)

oh man I didn't realize how irrelevant Ms. Pac-Man had become in the past decade and a half. Her last solo appearance was the timeless 2001 classic "Ms. Pac-Man: Quest for the Golden Maze" which is a game I know we are all intimately familiar with and are definitely not finding out exists just now no sir

people like to make out Ms. Pac-Man as some kind of weird sex symbol or feminist icon but she is literally Pac-Man with a bow and some lipstick. What is so empowering about that? Is it that she has a "Ms." in her name and not a "Mrs."? I'm pretty sure the marketing team did that just to create buzz, not be progressive.

yeah nobody ever gave a shit about Ms. Pac-Man, she couldn't break 8% on Mega Man in her one and only contest appearance and I think it's safe to say she'd be even weaker today if that's possible

also just as a fun fact I enjoy reminding people that there was in fact a Pac-Man knock-off of Mario Party and Heihachi and Astaroth from SoulCalibur II was playable in it for some reason, thus making Ms. Pac-Man and Pac-Man himself the least memorable parts of their own game:



Serious Sam
Last Contest: 2002
Last Game: Serious Sam's Bogus Detour (2017), Serious Sam 3: BFE (2011)

Did you know that just 9 days ago a teaser trailer for Serious Sam 4 dropped?

No?

OK, well, I don't blame you. I saw it the day it came out and it made so little impact on me that I actually forgot I had watched it until just now when I Googled Serious Sam, saw the trailer, clicked on it, watched it a second time, and didn't remember that I had already watched it until I had typed out a paragraph about how bland it looked.

Can anyone explain to me the point of Serious Sam? One of the appealing bits of Duke Nukem is that he finds other FPS characters dead and makes fun of them. Serious Sam does the same exact thing with the only difference is that it's a different buff white dude instead.

Apparently the Sam fanbase is pretty excited for this new game, though. All 12 of them.

It's being released by Devolver Digital, who actually is a pretty good publisher, so maybe if the game is good, cheap, on all consoles, properly hyped, well received, written in a way that Sam comes off as an actual character, and released during the nomination period, Sam might be able to get a 16 seed and get stomped again like he did in 2002.

Mr. Driller
Last Contest: 2002
Last Game: Famista Dream Match (2014), Namco High (2013), Pac-Man Kart Rally (2011)

i just shit all over Serious Sam, but imagine being the character that lost to serious sam

imagine that character being unlikable in every way possible

imagine that character being in a forgotten franchise

imagine that character not being the star of his own game or relevant in any way since 2009

do you have a picture in your head?

i bet it looks like "Susumu Hori"

which I am just finding out is Mr. Driller's real name

what the fuck

yeah Mr. Driller ain't getting into another one of these. 2002 was a weird year. the 16 seeds this contest should be made up exclusively of garbage 2002 entrants just to see how they've aged.

(answer: not gracefully)
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Sephiroth
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Dissidia Final Fantasy NT (2018)

When I was in high school I took a cooking class my senior year because I was super mentally checked out. I used to hang out with my good friend Josh, and we would read comics and talk about video games. In our cooking group we had this junior named Vinny. Dude was jacked and already had tribal tattoos. Spiky hair, orange skin, typical New Jersey guido.

He always thought Josh and I were huge nerds, but one day, near the end of the semester, he interrupted a conversation I was having with Josh about the best villains, to proudly proclaim:

"The best villains of all time... Are Venom, Carnage, and Sephiroth."

To this day I remember that feeling of shock. This is the power that Sephiroth commands. Even Guidos cannot be spared from the might of Sephiroth's long sword.

Remember when CJayC made a contest just for Sephiroth to win so that he could make an excuse to remove him from the real contest later that year?

Are we still at that level of Sephiroth dominance? Well, if you look at my Cloud write-up, you can probably guess that no, Sephiroth is not as ubiquitous and powerful as he once was. He's still got his appearances in Kingdom Hearts and Dissidia to keep him going but that's not exactly "new" content, and as we know, fanbases die if they aren't being consistently fed.

In 2013 Sephiroth got pretty roughed up by Mewtwo, but if you remove Draven from the equation, how does Sephiroth do then? The LoL rallies were bringing in tons of randos, and some of them could potentially have voted Mewtwo based on Pokemon brand loyalty.

It's hard to say where Sephiroth has gone since then. Clinkeroth was once seen as an unstoppable force. I would say Sephiroth could still have an easy path to the Semis no matter what his placement is, but assuming he isn't up against Link or Cloud, could he potentially get past Mario? Samus? Any other member of the Noble Nine? Could he beat Mewtwo in 2018?

I hate saying this, but I think Sephiroth's time in the sun is over. He'll always be an elite but no longer is he a god.

...

I'm going out for a bit, it's my housemate's birthday and I forgot to get him something. I would rather spend the day writing about video game character popularity contests. I am a bad person and I should be punished. Please tell nanis23 to say bad things about me while I'm gone.
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ZenOfThunder posted...

He always thought Josh and I were huge nerds, but one day, near the end of the semester, he interrupted a conversation I was having with Josh about the best villains, to proudly proclaim:

"The best villains of all time... Are Venom, Carnage, and Sephiroth."

he was doing so well after those first two too
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ok i went through all the trouble of putting on pants and just as I was walking out the door my girlfriend reminded me that I did get my housemate a present and that I put it in my closet

definitely date 3D, they remember things you don't remember

unfortunately I dedicate almost all of my memory banks to video game character popularity contests.

Gabe Logan
Last Contest: 2002
Last Game: Syphon Filter, Combat Ops (2007), Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow (2007)

Here I was just a few write-ups ago talking about characters that were so popular that their names ended up in the titles of their franchises. Obvious when Bend Games was coming up with the name for Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow they knew they had to include the name of the iconic Syphon Filter protagonist, Gabe Logan in the title somewhere. How else would people know that Gabe Logan was in the game?! He had grown beyond Syphon Filter and was way more than just a Solid Snake knockoff.

Popularly known as the 10th member of the Noble Nine,Gabe Logan would go on to appear in every single contest and win two of them. From the beginning he was putting up great numbers on opponents that should have far outclassed him, going toe-to-toe with Sephiroth in his first ever appearance, landing a massive...

Twelve... Percent...

Alright, I can't keep bullshitting. Who the hell is Gabe Logan? Nobody, and he's going to stay that way.

Crash Bandicoot
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Crash Bandicoot: N. Sane Trilogy (2017), Uncharted 4: A Thief's End (2016)

Before his recent remaster, Crash's last game was 2008's Crash Bandicoot: Mind Over Mutant. Did you know that? Did you remember that game? Did you know anyone who played it? Talked about it?

Crash was so dead until recently. This write-up would have been way easier if it weren't for the remaster and the wank-fest that is Uncharted 4.

All of a sudden people are seeing Crash as less of a cringey part of their childhood and the 90s as a whole and more of a treasured memory, just like Sonic. There was once a time where Crash games would have people stop what they were doing at E3 to watch the 90 second trailer on loop for almost an entire hour.

Crash is actually a great game with gameplay and graphics created to work within the PS1's limitations and show (trick?) people that the PS1 was lightyears ahead of the N64. It was Naughty Dog's first big release and they do not want you to forget about it, even though they sold the franchise off at one point.

Crash is back! How would he do in a contest today? Well he'd certainly be able to beat Elizabeth, who he just barely lost to in 2013. Beyond that? No idea! Crash is kind of popular on this site:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6269
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6729

Crash lost to Golden Sun in one of those polls, but I would take Crash over Isaac, especially now that he's getting some love again. It might still be close, though.

Side note: Isaac is one of few characters removed as an Assist Trophy between Brawl and Smash 4. Ouch. I guess we'll get to Isaac soon...
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Ulala
Last Contest: 2002
Last Game: Project X Zone 2 (2015), Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed (2012)

http://board8.wikia.com/wiki/Ulala

Notice anything weird about that? Yeah, I wrote her description! I have never played a Space Channel 5 game, but the thing is, nobody on this board has. I remember when the long-defunct pre-Wiki Character Battle info site was being updated, whoever was running it (can't remember who you are, sorry dude!) needed people to volunteer to write bios for some of the characters, and Ulala was the LAST ONE to not have one, so I just did it to help out.

So I guess that shows how popular Ulala is. She got a bio after Gabe Logan and Mr. Driller.

Ulala seems to be one of SEGA's go-to characters for crossovers and the like. They want to remind you of Space Channel 5 but they don't want to go through the trouble of remaking, remaster or developing a proper sequel to it. Rhythm games have changed since Space Channel 5 and there's probably no room for it in the modern landscape of Vita-exclusive Hatsune Miku games.

Ulala probably has some fans but they sure as hell aren't here. Of all the characters from 2002 who are unlikely to ever come back, I'd say Ulala might have the slimmest chances of all, which is really saying something. At least other characters did so poorly they might get a joke nomination rally, or maybe they're actually getting new games like Serious Sam, but Ulala is just boring enough with a firmly dead franchise that there's nothing in the world that could ever get her back in.

...

And that's that for 2002! Wow, this project is taking a lot longer than I thought. It's weird to say that these contests are my "hobby," but writing these little bios and talking about the drama on the board surrounding some characters and matches is a ton of fun. I might make a spinoff topic or something and archive this for future reference when all my predictions are proven untrue in the coming months.

If anyone has any special requests or corrections, please let me know! If you wanna see more or less of me waxing poetic or more numbers or something, shout it out and I'll see what I can do.
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ZenOfThunder posted...

I remember when the long-defunct pre-Wiki Character Battle info site was being updated, whoever was running it (can't remember who you are, sorry dude!)

MMXCalibur

man remember when Freewebs was a thing?
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LeonhartFour posted...

ZenOfThunder posted...

I remember when the long-defunct pre-Wiki Character Battle info site was being updated, whoever was running it (can't remember who you are, sorry dude!)

MMXCalibur

holy shit THANK YOU it was on the tip of my tongue!! does MMX still come around here?
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every now and then he stops by to rank users with short summary and analysis
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HaRRicH posted...

_SecretSquirrel posted...

I wouldn't put Crono in the upper tier of the Noble Nine, but I would easily take him above Crono

LOL, that should have been Sonic, somehow.
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AiAi
Last Contest: 2003
Last Game: Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed (2012), Super Monkey Ball: Banana Splitz (2012)

It's been 7 years since a Super Monkey Ball game, and 12 years since one was on consoles. Hard to believe 2006 was so long ago, but here we are, in 2018 with no Monkey Balls. How did we end up in this timeline?

AiAi was a one-and-done that couldn't break 10% against Link. I would argue that Monkey Ball is kind of a Nintendo franchise even though it's made by SEGA and that SFF was probably involved in some way, but does it matter?

AiAi was fresh off of Super Monkey Ball 2 in 2003. In 2018 he'd probably do even worse. Is it safe to say that Monkey Ball is a dead franchise?

Ganondorf
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (2017), Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess HD (2016)

When we last saw Ganondorf he was doing one of those Ganondorf dives from Smash Bros and pulling Mario off the stage in a murder-suicide the likes of which we had never seen, leaving only the young and innocent Vivi to carry on to the next round.

Before that Ganondorf was once considered to be stronger than Link. Back in 2003, the conception was "villains are cooler so they must be stronger!" But then he lost to Magus in round 2. Magus lost to Knuckles a few years later, so where does that leave Ganondorf?!

The next year Ganondorf went toe-to-toe with Alucard, once against just barely squeaking by. He then got to his long-awaited match with Link, and... Well, he lost. He lost hard. I think the idea of SFF was gestating in the womb of Board 8 during 2003, and 2004 was an outright confirmation that people will just vote for the main character most of the time, although there are some notable exceptions. Why would you vote for Ganondorf, the dude you are trying to kill in most Zelda games? You get really attached to Link, why vote for the pig man that wants Link dead?

Ganondorf has been able to stand on his own since then. He's done respectably in these contests and proven he isn't just Link's bitch. Unfortunately, the massive boost Link and Zelda are set to receive from BotW most likely won't apply to Ganondorf, who doesn't appear in his human form at all during the game. He's just so big ugly monster or giant cloud throughout the entirety, and he doesn't get any lines or even cutscenes setting him up. He doesn't even get enough respect to be called "Ganon," he is exclusively referred to as "Calamity Ganon" the entire game.

So will Ganondorf see a boost? Yes. Because he's Nintendo and this is now Nintendo Land. Will it be huge? Ehhhh... We'll see. Probably not.
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ZenOfThunder posted...

It's being released by Devolver Digital, who actually is a pretty good publisher, so maybe if the game is good, cheap, on all consoles, properly hyped, well received, written in a way that Sam comes off as an actual character, and released during the nomination period, Sam might be able to get a 16 seed and get stomped again like he did in 2002.

This is the perfect summary of what it's like to be a modern game character on GameFAQs
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LeonhartFour posted...

ZenOfThunder posted...

I remember when the long-defunct pre-Wiki Character Battle info site was being updated, whoever was running it (can't remember who you are, sorry dude!)

MMXCalibur

man remember when Freewebs was a thing?

I remember the Knuckles page having its music change from a Knuckles rap to the Fox NFL music for no adequately explored reason.
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MMXCalibur was a quirky individual

but I miss the Prophet Challenge so much because of that quirkiness

I can still remember the excellence that was his Master Chief/Crash Bandicoot 2004 writeup
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Tanner and Gordon Freeman's song was Loser by 3 Doors Down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pwdksVps-o" data-time="

All of those Prophet Challenge writeups were gold.
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Sam Fisher
Last Contest: 2007
Last Game: Ghost Recon: Wildlands (2017), Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Blacklist (2013)

There's a really touching moment in the recent Ghost Recon: Wildlands Sam Fisher DLC event where he asks what's happened to Solid Snake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCvq-wj5ScY" data-time="

"Then it's only me..."

I wish that were pertinent in a contest setting. Sam Fisher is as dead as Tom Clancy. Too soon? Sorry. Sam's series was actually really good, and Sam had his fair of decent showings, in the form of... beating Gordon Freeman and Simon Belmont. I remember him being better in these things. Whoops.

Sam didn't make it into the bracket in 2013, even though Blacklist was right around the corner. I don't think anyone on this site cared or ever cared at all about Sam, and now it seems like Ubisoft feels the same way. The fanbase was pretty upset when Michael Ironside was replaced as Sam's voice actor, and a lot of the diehards actually skipped playing that game, which is not good for a series on a downward spiral already.

If Sam were to appear today? Well, other than the free DLC mission in Wildlands, he hasn't had any real appearances in about 5 years, so it's safe to say he wouldn't do well anymore. Still, with the right match picture and matchup, he might be able to pull off a minor miracle.

Magus
Last Contest: 2003
Last Game: Chrono Trigger (PC)(2018)

I like to shit on Crono a lot but I'm usually joking. Magus, on the other hand, deserves that shit. Terribly, liquidy shit.

I never got the hype surrounding Magus. To me he was always the Piccolo of Chrono Trigger. He's a big bad, he turns out not to be all that bad, then he just kind of... stopped being as relevant as Crono (in a contest setting). Anyone still unfortunate enough to be watching Dragon Ball Super knows what I mean.

Remember when Magus got punked by Sandbag? By Knuckles? He couldn't come close to Alucard. Then his bracket placement was so bad in 2013 that he ended up in Crono in Round 2.

Will Magus ever return to glory. Uh... What glory? The dude beat Ganondorf in 2003, the year that Zelda was at its lowest point. He also beat Otacon and Crash Bandicoot one time. Can anybody explain to me why year after year people crawl out from behind their rocks (their rocks that have a TV and an SNES installed with only Chrono Trigger on it) to proclaim that this year will be Magus' year?

Can I remind you that not even Square Enix cares about Chrono Trigger? Did you know there was a PC port just a few months ago? Did you know it was an awful, broken port of the iOS version put out just to make some quick cash at the expense of the uninformed consumer? Chrono Trigger is now being used as bait! The franchise is dead. Magus is dead. Was he ever really alive?

Sorry to everyone who likes Chrono Trigger, I played it once and it was pretty good. As someone who never got a real sequel to his favorite game (Elite Beat Agents) I know your pain and hope you one day get something better than a bad iOS port.
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Luigi
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Mario Tennis Aces (2018), Super Mario Odyssey: Luigi's Balloon World (2018)

Luigi is the 2003 Champion that never was. People assumed he would be strong for some reason. I mean, he is. He's Mario's brother! Mario's Green brother. Shit, what was his name again?

Green Mario has the same problem as Red Ryu: He's iconic, just not as important. Green Mario exists solely in these contests to job to promising newcomers or other high midcarders that want to impress. If you read Ulti's writeups for every match containing Green Mario, they usually mention he had a "solid performance."

2013 was the Year of Green Mario and he was given a match against Big Boss when MGS was at its strongest with Ness in the match to LFF him down to second place. He just can't get a break and has never really impressed in these contests, just disappointed.

So where is Green Mario now? Well, he's... got his own DLC in his brother's game that came a few months after the hype had died down. He hasn't had his own game since his year in 2013 when Green Mario's Mansion: Dark Moon came out as well as a re-skin of some Mario game where they made him Green. Everything else has been sports or party games or Smash Bros. There's a remake of his first Mansion game coming soon, but probably not in time for the contest.

I do not respect Green Mario. I don't think I can. I know some people look at him with endearment, but it's the same kind of look you give someone with terminal illness. It's sad to see that he never got his shot in these contests. With the increased focus on Nintendo on this site, you can expect him to get bumped up in strength, but that bump also applies to most of the characters that have beaten him before, so nothing will probably change for him. I hope I'm proven wrong, because even though I don't respect Luigi, I still love him in some weird way and I'm happy when he gets the spotlight. I think we all do.

Ratchet
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Ratchet & Clank (2016)

I cannot believe Ratchet had a movie. Like, for real, I can't believe it because I barely head about it or saw any footage from it. Apparently the movie-tie in game that was actually by Insomniac was good, but not like Earth-shatteringly good, just really above average. I almost think it got attention because the last few Ratchet games were so awful that any return to form was noteworthy.

Where is Ratchet on the fodder line? Is Vyse still the Fodder Line? I feel like Ratchet would be a solid pick for the new Fodder Line as he has a decent sized fanbase, a few OK wins, games and appearances coming fairly regularly, and pretty consistent performance from contest to contest.

Ratchet managed to beat Shulk and Eddie Riggs and that's really it. Is he stronger than that now? Well, people seem to care about the platformers they grew up with more and more, so he might have seen some growth. It says something that he's managed to stay semi-relevant after so many mediocre games. If he had any growth it's probably slim, but I think his general recognizability might keep him as a decent filler character that nobody will be miffed to see included.

On the other hand, if we never see Ratchet again that won't be a big loss.
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hey now the only really bad recent R&C game is All 4 One

the movie made approximately 15 dollars though and I'm still not sure why they made it

game's great though

(Play Ratchet & Clank)

man I wish Vyse were still the fodder line
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KOS-MOS
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (2017), Project X Zone 2 (2015)

I was never into any of the Xeno games, I actually got like 10 hours into Xenoblade but then I went an hour without saving and died so I stopped playing. It was really good though! Totally worth the five thousand dollars to get a used copy from GameStop that was actually new but they charged more for it used so they just opened them up and called them used.

I hate GameStop. They kind of shot themselves in the foot with how they structure their business model around pushing pre-orders and rewards cards and magazine subscriptions, making it super uncomfortable to shop there. Then they punished their employees for not selling enough so the managers started faking numbers. Now they're in the whole because everyone knows they suck and they have alternatives in the form of Amazon, Best Buy and digital, so they try making money on selling useless garbage like Pop Figures and I guess used cell phones or whatever the hell. What a trash company.

What was I talking about? Oh yeah, KOS-MOS. Remember that Character Battle fanfiction where Tommy Vercetti beat Master Chief at Poker, and he made Cortana reprogram KOS-MOS into his sex slave? That was super creepy. Who wrote that? Why did you do that? It's the only thing I remember from that year's fic. Then I started writing them and boy were they awful. They're still on fanfiction.net somewhere but I forgot my old password to delete them. Hopefully nobody I know ever finds them.

What was I talking about? Oh yeah, KOS-MOS. Remember that time CJayC forgot to make a match picture for KOS-MOS and for a few hours the poll just had no pic? I think it was 2008 when she was against Ganondorf and Frog. You could actually see from the trends that she didn't start gaining steam until she got her picture with the boobies. Some take it as definitive proof of TJF.

What was I talking about? Oh yeah, KOS-MOS. I think the fact that I want to talk about everything but KOS-MOS is an indicator that she as a character hasn't had much going on recently. I didn't play Xenoblade Chronicles 2 but I hear it's great. I'll probably get it someday. Does she just make a cameo or something? I see it listed on her list of appearances on Giant Bomb but I didn't know she was in it. I hope I didn't just spoil something, shit. Sorry.

What was I talking about? Oh yeah, KOS-MOS. She's had some OK performances. She beat Crash and some (more) obscure JRPG characters. She was pretty iconic of her generation, being on the front of the Xenosaga boxes. Everyone who went to GameStop would see those boxes all over the place. See, GameStop! Full circle.

So where is KOS-MOS in strength now? Probably weaker, unless she had some big role in XC2 that I haven't heard of. I don't think she'll be back unless there's a huge field, but the XS crowd seems pretty devoted, so maybe we'll see her slip in at a low seed. Hopefully she doesn't get matched up with Tommy Vercetti.

Full circle!

Isaac
Last Contest: 2013
Last Game: Golden Sun: Dark Dawn (2010)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6269
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6918

It's nice to see Isaac still getting some love! Not that Sakurai gives him any. As I said earlier, Isaac got cut as an Assist Trophy between Brawl and 4. Does that mean Nintendo no longer sees Golden Sun as relevant?

RPGs take a lot of time to make, and Nintendo recently announced a new RPG IP... For iPhones! Uhh...

If they aren't even going to use their existing IPs on their phone games, what hope does Isaac have for a comeback? His biggest ever win was Guybrush Threepwood. Yeah, maybe it's time for Isaac to go the way of his Assist Trophy and not make a return.
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ZenOfThunder posted...

So where is KOS-MOS in strength now? Probably weaker, unless she had some big role in XC2 that I haven't heard of.

well she's in XC2 as an Easter Egg but I wouldn't expect that to help her that much
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I worked a part-time job at GameStop once. Used my employee discount to buy a New game. Made an offhanded comment that it would help pump up their sales numbers. They proceeded to tell me that it would actually hurt, because their performance was graded by 'ratio of used games to new games', and by buying a New game I was hurting their ratio.

GameStop.
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To be fair I think they make a larger profit from selling used games.
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I see Isaac as the fodder line.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/5170-character-battle-ix-division-4-round-1-solid-snake-vs-isaac

22.2% on Snake in 2013, which projects to 20.65% on that year's Link (and we have a direct Snake/Link match). Dark Dawn was three years old at that point, had kind of disappointed people (and Isaac was barely in it) yet he still seemed to be doing about as well as ever.

In fact:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/1312-north-division-round-1-samus-aran-vs-isaac
Assuming no SFF, that's pretty consistent!

I think Isaac gets his strength from being the main character of a nostalgic and well-liked JRPG with a pretty high playrate among the gamefaqs demographic and barring a major site shift that's probably enough to prop him up until the end of time. He never had any cultural relevance whatsoever so no need to worry about that fading and he's probably even immune to changing tastes as people age because his characterization was so minimal (in GS1) or dull (the other games) in the first place. His series looks dead now and a Smash appearance unlikely (especially given the Assist Trophy removal), so he probably won't boost. It's also notable that Isaac hasn't missed a character battle since the field was expanded in 2007 and apparently he even got a 6 seed in 2010 so he's likely to keep coming back.
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Borderline Fodder Characters By Year IMO

2002 - Tails
2003 - Vyse
2004 - KOS-MOS
2005 - Terra
2006 - Axel
2007 - HK-47
2008 - Roxas
2010 - Prince Of Persia
2013 - Mr. Game And Watch

Mr. Game and Watch is borderline fodder IMO.