Current Events > PSA: "whataboutism" is not a valid argument or defense.

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you're being criticized about doing something shitty, pointing out that other people also do shitty things doesn't make the shitty thing you do any less shitty.

That is all.
---

ok but what about her emails
---

no shit
---

But what about straw man arguments? Those are far worse.
---

Kaname_Madoka posted...

ok but what about her emails

Idk man ask Ben Ghazi
---

Unless it's Trump

Virus731 posted...

no shit

It should be obvious but if you read any political debate on CE whataboutism is rampant.
---

K181 posted...

But what about straw man arguments? Those are far worse.

They are essentially whataboutisms.
---

LordRazziel posted...

K181 posted...

But what about straw man arguments? Those are far worse.

They are essentially whataboutisms.

you missed the joke
---

I agree with your point, but Hillary should be in jail. Lock her up!
---

K181 posted...

But what about straw man arguments? Those are far worse.

Leave my son out of this.
---

It would be good if CE properly understood what that meant and knew when it was or was not a valid argument.

Example of when it's valid to call out:
Post 1: Trump did this today
Post 2: Yeah, but Obama did that too!

Example of when it's not valid to call out:
Post 1: Typical conservatives, are we surprised?
Post 2: Actually, liberals do the same thing. Here's an example.

CE can never help itself from making generalizations like in example 2, then they inappropriately cry about deflections or whataboutism and double-down on their own ignorance.
---

Kaname_Madoka posted...

LordRazziel posted...

K181 posted...

But what about straw man arguments? Those are far worse.

They are essentially whataboutisms.

you missed the joke

I missed your mom's joke!


---

DadofStrawman posted...

K181 posted...

But what about straw man arguments? Those are far worse.

Leave my son out of this.

this is a good gimmick
---

I had Carlson on one night and I kid you not he answered somebodys points with What about this? What about that?

He listed like 3 or 4 things and literally said what about *subject* every time. I was laughing my ass off because there had been a topic on here earlier that day where people discussed whataboutism and how it is bad.

Its sad that people take his show seriously.
---

TheGreatGenocet posted...

If you're being criticized about doing something shitty, pointing out that other people also do shitty things doesn't make the shitty thing you do any less shitty.

That is all.

If only people actually understood this.

But no it's us vs them mentality and actually arguing in defense is unheard, just deflect it absolves you of all responsibility -_-
---

The Admiral posted...

It would be good if CE properly understood what that meant and knew when it was or was not a valid argument.

Example of when it's valid to call out:
Post 1: Trump did this today
Post 2: Yeah, but Obama did that too!

Example of when it's not valid to call out:
Post 1: Typical conservatives, are we surprised?
Post 2: Actually, liberals do the same thing. Here's an example.

CE can never help itself from making generalizations like in example 2, then they inappropriately cry about deflections or whataboutism and double-down on their own ignorance.

Those are both examples of whataboutism. No one said Obama was infallible, so if Trump does something shitty, Obama also doing something shitty does not make what Trump did any less shitty
---

TheGreatGenocet posted...

The Admiral posted...

It would be good if CE properly understood what that meant and knew when it was or was not a valid argument.

Example of when it's valid to call out:
Post 1: Trump did this today
Post 2: Yeah, but Obama did that too!

Example of when it's not valid to call out:
Post 1: Typical conservatives, are we surprised?
Post 2: Actually, liberals do the same thing. Here's an example.

CE can never help itself from making generalizations like in example 2, then they inappropriately cry about deflections or whataboutism and double-down on their own ignorance.

Those are both examples of whataboutism. No one said Obama was infallible, so if Trump does something shitty, Obama also doing something shitty does not make what Trump did any less shitty

No, they're not. In the first example, the issue is something Trump did. Deflecting to someone else instead of Trump is not a valid counterargument and is whataboutism.

In the second example, the implication of the statement is that the actions are exclusive to conservatives. In that case, it is perfectly fine to counter with liberals doing the same thing since that rebuts the argument. No fallacy there.

TC is one of the many users here who is guilty of this, so I'd recommend he take note and understand the difference.
---

But then the right will have no argument at all. They need this defense.
---

TheGreatGenocet posted...

The Admiral posted...

It would be good if CE properly understood what that meant and knew when it was or was not a valid argument.

Example of when it's valid to call out:
Post 1: Trump did this today
Post 2: Yeah, but Obama did that too!

Example of when it's not valid to call out:
Post 1: Typical conservatives, are we surprised?
Post 2: Actually, liberals do the same thing. Here's an example.

CE can never help itself from making generalizations like in example 2, then they inappropriately cry about deflections or whataboutism and double-down on their own ignorance.

Those are both examples of whataboutism. No one said Obama was infallible, so if Trump does something shitty, Obama also doing something shitty does not make what Trump did any less shitty

He's pointing out that you can't group all liberals and conservatives together because they aren't of one mind. He's spot on.
---

The Admiral posted...

What about when it's not whatabaoutism?

---

LordRazziel posted...

TheGreatGenocet posted...

The Admiral posted...

It would be good if CE properly understood what that meant and knew when it was or was not a valid argument.

Example of when it's valid to call out:
Post 1: Trump did this today
Post 2: Yeah, but Obama did that too!

Example of when it's not valid to call out:
Post 1: Typical conservatives, are we surprised?
Post 2: Actually, liberals do the same thing. Here's an example.

CE can never help itself from making generalizations like in example 2, then they inappropriately cry about deflections or whataboutism and double-down on their own ignorance.

Those are both examples of whataboutism. No one said Obama was infallible, so if Trump does something shitty, Obama also doing something shitty does not make what Trump did any less shitty

He's pointing out that you can't group all liberals and conservatives together because they aren't of one mind. He's spot on.

That is not what he's claiming because he consistently groups all liberals together based off of fake Twitter outrage on a daily basis.
---

I think maybe a better version of Admiral's second example is

"Don't vote for *insert Democrat* because they do __________" -GOP
"But *GOP challenger* does the same thing" - Dems

In this case the "whataboutism" is valid, because there's an implied "This is a reason to vote for our guy over that guy", and once you show that it's true of both candidates, it isn't a valid argument to make.
---

Just do this:

You: "What A did is bad!"
Other: "What about what B did?"
You: "OK, hold on."
*make another topic about "What B did is bad!"
*link to B's topic in A's topic*
You: "Here's a topic about what B did was also bad. Now let's talk about what A did was bad."
---

TheGreatGenocet posted...

If you're being criticized about doing something shitty, pointing out that other people also do shitty things doesn't make the shitty thing you do any less shitty.

That is all.

No but it can expose the person you're arguing against as a hypocrite and level the playing field again.

Take a feminist for example. If a femenist accused you of hating women in an argument to smear you, and you know that the femenist is a man hater and supports discrimination against men, you can use whataboutism right there to expose them.
---

Smashingpmkns posted...

LordRazziel posted...

TheGreatGenocet posted...

The Admiral posted...

It would be good if CE properly understood what that meant and knew when it was or was not a valid argument.

Example of when it's valid to call out:
Post 1: Trump did this today
Post 2: Yeah, but Obama did that too!

Example of when it's not valid to call out:
Post 1: Typical conservatives, are we surprised?
Post 2: Actually, liberals do the same thing. Here's an example.

CE can never help itself from making generalizations like in example 2, then they inappropriately cry about deflections or whataboutism and double-down on their own ignorance.

Those are both examples of whataboutism. No one said Obama was infallible, so if Trump does something shitty, Obama also doing something shitty does not make what Trump did any less shitty

He's pointing out that you can't group all liberals and conservatives together because they aren't of one mind. He's spot on.

That is not what he's claiming because he consistently groups all liberals together based off of fake Twitter outrage on a daily basis.

Reading his second post, he lost me.
---