Board 8 > thirty-one tabletop games, ranked

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SeabassDebeste 03/23/18 5:50:09 PM #251:	okay, we got one last tier to go Nein! 80. Secret Hitler 79. Mascarade 78. Sheriff of Nottingham 77. Good Cop, Bad Cop 76. Dead of Winter 75. Word on the Street 74. One Night Ultimate Werewolf Punch Missed 73. Boss Monster 72. Colt Express 71. God's Gambit 70. Sushi Go 69. Qwirkle 68. Cosmic Encounter 67. Ticket to Ride Banzai! 66. Settlers of Catan 65. Machi Koro 64. Zombicide 63. King of Tokyo 62. Guillotine 61. Turn the Tide 60. Coup 59. Roll for the Galaxy 58. San Juan 57. Ca$h 'n Guns Feeling Bold 56. The Bloody Inn 55. World's Fair 1893 54. The Grizzled 53. Two Rooms and a Boom 52. 7 Wonders 51. Tokaido (also Lost Cities: The Board Game) 50. Takenoko 49. Karuba 48. Acquire 47. Welcome to the Dungeon THREE! THREE! THREE! 46. Ra 45. Pit 44. Love Letter 43. Dixit 42. D-Day Dice 41. Small World 40. Mysterium 39. 6 nimmt! 38. No Thanks! Well Fed 37. Agricola 36. Ghost Blitz 35. BANG: The Dice Game 34. Power Grid 33. Tzolk'in 32. Seasons 31. Anomia 30. Wits and Wagers 29. Century Spice Road 28. Isle of Skye I'm In! 27. Glory to Rome 26. Five Tribes 25. Scythe 24. Captain Sonar 23. Jungle Speed 22. For Sale 21. Specter Ops 20. Celestia 19. Hanabi 18. Splendor Bananas! 17. Werewords 16. Bloodbound 15. Dominion 14. Kemet 13. Discoveries: Lewis and Clark 12. A Game of Thrones 2nd Edition 11. Bananagrams 10. Dracula's Feast 9. Concordia 8. Forbidden Island/Desert/Pandemic 7. Pandemic Legacy (Season 1) --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898366321] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>okay, we got one last tier to go Nein! 80. Secret Hitler 79. Mascarade 78. Sheriff of Nottingham 77. Good Cop, Bad Cop 76. Dead of Winter 75. Word on the Street 74. One Night Ultimate Werewolf Punch Missed 73. Boss Monster 72. Colt Express 71. God's Gambit 70. Sushi Go 69. Qwirkle 68. Cosmic Encounter 67. Ticket to Ride Banzai! 66. Settlers of Catan 65. Machi Koro 64. Zombicide 63. King of Tokyo 62. Guillotine 61. Turn the Tide 60. Coup 59. Roll for the Galaxy 58. San Juan 57. Ca$h 'n Guns Feeling Bold 56. The Bloody Inn 55. World's Fair 1893 54. The Grizzled 53. Two Rooms and a Boom 52. 7 Wonders 51. Tokaido (also Lost Cities: The Board Game) 50. Takenoko 49. Karuba 48. Acquire 47. Welcome to the Dungeon THREE! THREE! THREE! 46. Ra 45. Pit 44. Love Letter 43. Dixit 42. D-Day Dice 41. Small World 40. Mysterium 39. 6 nimmt! 38. No Thanks! Well Fed 37. Agricola 36. Ghost Blitz 35. BANG: The Dice Game 34. Power Grid 33. Tzolk'in 32. Seasons 31. Anomia 30. Wits and Wagers 29. Century Spice Road 28. Isle of Skye I'm In! 27. Glory to Rome 26. Five Tribes 25. Scythe 24. Captain Sonar 23. Jungle Speed 22. For Sale 21. Specter Ops 20. Celestia 19. Hanabi 18. Splendor Bananas! 17. Werewords 16. Bloodbound 15. Dominion 14. Kemet 13. Discoveries: Lewis and Clark 12. A Game of Thrones 2nd Edition 11. Bananagrams 10. Dracula's Feast 9. Concordia 8. Forbidden Island/Desert/Pandemic 7. Pandemic Legacy (Season 1)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
cyko 03/24/18 8:16:56 AM #252:	I actually picked up Concordia during Target's last B2G1 Free sale, but I still haven't played it yet. It looks like something I would enjoy, but I have to admit that the box is a very weird shape. It doesn't fit right anywhere on my shelf. --- Yay - BkSheikah is the guru champion of awesomeness. <cite>cyko posted [p:898396978] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>I actually picked up Concordia during Target's last B2G1 Free sale, but I still haven't played it yet. It looks like something I would enjoy, but I have to admit that the box is a very weird shape. It doesn't fit right anywhere on my shelf.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/24/18 10:14:17 PM #253:	yeah, it's super-flat and super-long. that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't seem conventional, and when it comes to storage, conventional is easier to deal with. --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898435647] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>yeah, it's super-flat and super-long. that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't seem conventional, and when it comes to storage, conventional is easier to deal with.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tom Bombadil 03/25/18 10:54:08 PM #254:	played snake oil yesterday was fun --- Look at all those chickens There's a hunger in the land, there's a reckoning still to be reckoned <cite>Tom Bombadil posted [p:898494852] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>played snake oil yesterday was fun</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/26/18 1:16:07 PM #255:	6. Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/182028/through-ages-new-story-civilization Genre/mechanics: Card drafting, resource management, civilization-building, hand management, tableau-building, action-allocation Rules complexity: 10/10 Game length: 2-5 hours Player count: 2-4 Experience: 3+ plays with 2, 5+ plays with 2-4 (app, vs CPU) First played: 2018 Through the Ages is a eurogame, abstracted civilization-simulator. The goal is to have the most Culture at the end of three Ages - which are represented by decks of cards. Gameplay is entirely driven by drafting and playing cards, and taking actions on your tableau. Your tableau generates Food (to feed your workers), Stone (to assign your workers and construct wonders), Science (to develop your tableau further), and Culture (VP). Your workers will also be assigned to Military, as Aggressions and Wars can punish weaker players. Enjoyment - I've only played TtA in-person with the significant other. She decided of all games that this would be the game we'd get. It's fiddly and tedious and long and it's so damn satisfying that we each paid $10 to get the mobile app, which fully and wonderfully implements the entire game. Each time played, it's a set-aside-two-weeknight-evenings, or set-aside-the-afternoon activity. There's something inherently satisfying about seeing the empire you build from your cards and workers at the end of it all. Design - TtA is intricate as fuck and I love it. There's so much in it that's well-balanced and well-thought-out. A New Story of Civilization is the completely revamped second edition of TtA, which primarily retains the original's cards and mechanics, but which simplifies a few things - so you know it's been play-tested really well. There's so damn much constraining you each turn, and so much you want to achieve. You need Culture to win the game, but falling behind big in Military in the third age will almost surely lose you the game, since the War Over Culture war cards can be extremely punishing. So you've already got an inherent tension between producing Culture and building up your Military might. You're not getting far with either category if you don't upgrade your technology - an Age 1 soldier will provide you one unit of strength, but an Age 2 soldier will provide you two. So you'll need Science to develop those Cultural and Military technologies... and your Science production is also limited. To take advantage of these technologies, you'll need Workers, but raising a Worker requires an initial investment of Food (and the larger your workforce, the more food you eat per turn). On top of that, you need to pay Stone to assign those workers. So do you send your Workers to produce more Food so you can generate more Workers? Or more Stone, so those Workers can be assigned more easily? Or more Science, so you can develop better, more efficient technologies for your Workers? Or Culture, or Military? --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898522823] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>6. Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/182028/through-ages-new-story-civilization Genre/mechanics: Card drafting, resource management, civilization-building, hand management, tableau-building, action-allocation Rules complexity: 10/10 Game length: 2-5 hours Player count: 2-4 Experience: 3+ plays with 2, 5+ plays with 2-4 (app, vs CPU) First played: 2018 Through the Ages is a eurogame, abstracted civilization-simulator. The goal is to have the most Culture at the end of three Ages - which are represented by decks of cards. Gameplay is entirely driven by drafting and playing cards, and taking actions on your tableau. Your tableau generates Food (to feed your workers), Stone (to assign your workers and construct wonders), Science (to develop your tableau further), and Culture (VP). Your workers will also be assigned to Military, as Aggressions and Wars can punish weaker players. Enjoyment - I've only played TtA in-person with the significant other. She decided of all games that this would be the game we'd get. It's fiddly and tedious and long and it's so damn satisfying that we each paid $10 to get the mobile app, which fully and wonderfully implements the entire game. Each time played, it's a set-aside-two-weeknight-evenings, or set-aside-the-afternoon activity. There's something inherently satisfying about seeing the empire you build from your cards and workers at the end of it all. Design - TtA is intricate as fuck and I love it. There's so much in it that's well-balanced and well-thought-out. A New Story of Civilization is the completely revamped second edition of TtA, which primarily retains the original's cards and mechanics, but which simplifies a few things - so you know it's been play-tested really well. There's so damn much constraining you each turn, and so much you want to achieve. You need Culture to win the game, but falling behind big in Military in the third age will almost surely lose you the game, since the War Over Culture war cards can be extremely punishing. So you've already got an inherent tension between producing Culture and building up your Military might. You're not getting far with either category if you don't upgrade your technology - an Age 1 soldier will provide you one unit of strength, but an Age 2 soldier will provide you two. So you'll need Science to develop those Cultural and Military technologies... and your Science production is also limited. To take advantage of these technologies, you'll need Workers, but raising a Worker requires an initial investment of Food (and the larger your workforce, the more food you eat per turn). On top of that, you need to pay Stone to assign those workers. So do you send your Workers to produce more Food so you can generate more Workers? Or more Stone, so those Workers can be assigned more easily? Or more Science, so you can develop better, more efficient technologies for your Workers? Or Culture, or Military?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/26/18 1:16:19 PM #256:	On top of that, you don't only need to worry about the track/cube-pushing resources - you also have an action point allowance system (and you can earn more action points with the right technologies, as well). You need to use a Civil Action each time you take a card, play a card, or run operations upgrading your non-Military tableau. And any action affecting the Military tableau costs Military actions (which can be traded to draw Military cards). The Civil card marketplace is well thought out; newly drawn cards cost more action points than do the cards that have already been on the marketplace for a while. The decision-point count is astronomical in this game, especially as you branch out. Drafting a yellow Action card to give you more resources (which cannot be played on the turn it is drafted) means you sacrifice Actions for resources. Drafting Technology cards puts a strain on your Science supply - and many of those technologies will require Workers placed on them. Everything is deeply linked, and figuring out your engine is paramount. In a game with 130+ cards to go through, you need to strike the balance between grabbing and playing the best cards, and figuring out which cubes to push to which location, and when to do each. So TtA is incredibly tight and smart. It's also fiddly and kind of a giant fucking mess just because of the scale of everything. (As an example - the resource that virtually all players call "Stone," and is generated by Mines, is actually called "Resources" in the parlance of the game - but "resource" is a word that of course can seems generic in gamer-lingo.) The player mat has a bunch of distinct areas on it so you can track both resource production and accumulated resources (which can go on different tiers to indicate how much they're worth). It's nice that the components are good - little, transparent yellow blue cubes for the Workers and Resources; white and red cubes for Civil and Military actions. Be careful not to swipe your hand across your board, because that would really suck. I believe I've seen TtA described as "Accounting: The Game," and you can see why. Thankfully, the game does have three public tracks that don't reside on your tableau - the Military, Culture, and Science tracks. Unfortunately, while the Action Allocation system is fantastic strategically, it can result in brutal downtime. Instead of Agricola's "your turn is one action" system, where everyone gets to stay involved with frequent mini-turns, TtA forces you to take all of your actions at once, and you can do them in pretty much any order you want. The analysis paralysis this can produce is enormous. I've only played with one other human in face-to-face games, but I get tired of the downtime even playing against three AI opponents. And their actions are only separated by like 5 seconds of animation! Nonetheless, I admire the design of TtA a ton. The astounding amount of things-to-keep-track-of is appropriate given the sprawling scale of things - we go all the way from the eras of Caesar and Alexander the Great through Genghis Khan and Joan of Arc through Shakespeare and Napoleon through Bill Gates and Gandhi. The techs are thematic as well and it's ultra-satisfying to upgrade the basic Science Labs from Philosophy to Alchemy (in Age I) to the Scientific Method (in Age II) to Computers (in Age III), or to progress from your Despotism government into a Constitutional Monarchy into Democracy, or to go from a basic Swordsman into Rifleman with the Modern Infantry alongside your Knights being upgraded into Cavalrymen and then Tanks. For a tale with this epic a scope, that long playtime can be almost desirable. Future - ... which doesn't exactly make it easy to get to the table. It's almost guaranteed to be a no-show at most game nights due to its bulk. Aside from in-home play, I'm going to have to ask 1-2 people specifically to play this. Probably worth it, though. --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898522835] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>On top of that, you don't only need to worry about the track/cube-pushing resources - you also have an action point allowance system (and you can earn more action points with the right technologies, as well). You need to use a Civil Action each time you take a card, play a card, or run operations upgrading your non-Military tableau. And any action affecting the Military tableau costs Military actions (which can be traded to draw Military cards). The Civil card marketplace is well thought out; newly drawn cards cost more action points than do the cards that have already been on the marketplace for a while. The decision-point count is astronomical in this game, especially as you branch out. Drafting a yellow Action card to give you more resources (which cannot be played on the turn it is drafted) means you sacrifice Actions for resources. Drafting Technology cards puts a strain on your Science supply - and many of those technologies will require Workers placed on them. Everything is deeply linked, and figuring out your engine is paramount. In a game with 130+ cards to go through, you need to strike the balance between grabbing and playing the best cards, and figuring out which cubes to push to which location, and when to do each. So TtA is incredibly tight and smart. It's also fiddly and kind of a giant fucking mess just because of the scale of everything. (As an example - the resource that virtually all players call "Stone," and is generated by Mines, is actually called "Resources" in the parlance of the game - but "resource" is a word that of course can seems generic in gamer-lingo.) The player mat has a bunch of distinct areas on it so you can track both resource production and accumulated resources (which can go on different tiers to indicate how much they're worth). It's nice that the components are good - little, transparent yellow blue cubes for the Workers and Resources; white and red cubes for Civil and Military actions. Be careful not to swipe your hand across your board, because that would really suck. I believe I've seen TtA described as "Accounting: The Game," and you can see why. Thankfully, the game does have three public tracks that don't reside on your tableau - the Military, Culture, and Science tracks. Unfortunately, while the Action Allocation system is fantastic strategically, it can result in brutal downtime. Instead of Agricola's "your turn is one action" system, where everyone gets to stay involved with frequent mini-turns, TtA forces you to take all of your actions at once, and you can do them in pretty much any order you want. The analysis paralysis this can produce is enormous. I've only played with one other human in face-to-face games, but I get tired of the downtime even playing against three AI opponents. And their actions are only separated by like 5 seconds of animation! Nonetheless, I admire the design of TtA a ton. The astounding amount of things-to-keep-track-of is appropriate given the sprawling scale of things - we go all the way from the eras of Caesar and Alexander the Great through Genghis Khan and Joan of Arc through Shakespeare and Napoleon through Bill Gates and Gandhi. The techs are thematic as well and it's ultra-satisfying to upgrade the basic Science Labs from Philosophy to Alchemy (in Age I) to the Scientific Method (in Age II) to Computers (in Age III), or to progress from your Despotism government into a Constitutional Monarchy into Democracy, or to go from a basic Swordsman into Rifleman with the Modern Infantry alongside your Knights being upgraded into Cavalrymen and then Tanks. For a tale with this epic a scope, that long playtime can be almost desirable. Future - ... which doesn't exactly make it easy to get to the table. It's almost guaranteed to be a no-show at most game nights due to its bulk. Aside from in-home play, I'm going to have to ask 1-2 people specifically to play this. Probably worth it, though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/26/18 1:17:08 PM #257:	Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy? Hint for #5 - a eurogame that combines bidding with worker placement in a very unusual way --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898522885] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy? Hint for #5 - a eurogame that combines bidding with worker placement in a very unusual way</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Emeraldegg 03/26/18 1:18:59 PM #258:	SeabassDebeste posted... Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy? Twilight Imperium --- I'm a greener egg than the eggs from dr. seuss <cite>Emeraldegg posted [p:898522994] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>SeabassDebeste posted...</cite> <quote>Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy?</quote> Twilight Imperium</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Johnbobb 03/26/18 1:26:42 PM #259:	I'm really late catching up, but I'm glad to see Game of Thrones so high. I've owned it for years but have never actually played it because the game is so complicated and overwhelming that none of the people I play games with (even the ones who are into Game of Thrones) ever have the time/patience to come together and figure it out. In fact I have three GOT games: the board game, A Game of Thrones: The Card Game and A Game of Thrones: Hand of the King. And despite the first two being more expensive and well-made, Hand of the King has gotten by far the most use because it's simple, fun and can be done whenever (like while doing laundry) --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs <cite>Johnbobb posted [p:898523393] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>I'm really late catching up, but I'm glad to see Game of Thrones so high. I've owned it for years but have never actually played it because the game is so complicated and overwhelming that none of the people I play games with (even the ones who are into Game of Thrones) ever have the time/patience to come together and figure it out. In fact I have three GOT games: the board game, A Game of Thrones: The Card Game and A Game of Thrones: Hand of the King. And despite the first two being more expensive and well-made, Hand of the King has gotten by far the most use because it's simple, fun and can be done whenever (like while doing laundry)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/26/18 2:17:01 PM #260:	i think i'd only vaguely heard of hand of the king before. it seems absolutely hilarious by the description and the box art. also, bruno cathala designed five tribes, so i'd trust him. trying to get GOT: the board game to the table is going to be a bitch, lmao. if you want to get it played, i'd hit up your friens with the instructional video ahead of time, so at least they have some idea what they're getting into. Emeraldegg posted... Twilight Imperium now there's a game on my bucket list --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898526350] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>i think i'd only vaguely heard of hand of the king before. it seems absolutely hilarious by the description and the box art. also, bruno cathala designed five tribes, so i'd trust him. trying to get GOT: the board game to the table is going to be a bitch, lmao. if you want to get it played, i'd hit up your friens with the instructional video ahead of time, so at least they have some idea what they're getting into. <cite>Emeraldegg posted...</cite> <quote>Twilight Imperium </quote> now there's a game on my bucket list</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
th3l3fty 03/26/18 4:30:56 PM #261:	I've only ever gotten to play Through the Ages once - and the original at that I liked it, but I also was given a handicap because the other players had literally hundreds of plays in it --- thelefty for analysis crew 2008 imo -transience I have a third degree burn in flame-o-nomics -Sir Chris <cite>th3l3fty posted [p:898534141] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>I've only ever gotten to play Through the Ages once - and the original at that I liked it, but I also was given a handicap because the other players had literally hundreds of plays in it</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/26/18 4:55:04 PM #262:	that sounds cool. the only time i played nations, it was a 4-player game with 1 experienced player and 3 of us inexperienced players. all three of us played with handicaps, which i think is a fantastic idea in games with steep learning curves and long playtimes like this. --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898535515] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>that sounds cool. the only time i played nations, it was a 4-player game with 1 experienced player and 3 of us inexperienced players. all three of us played with handicaps, which i think is a fantastic idea in games with steep learning curves and long playtimes like this.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BakusaiTenketsu 03/26/18 5:16:27 PM #263:	SeabassDebeste posted... Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy? Warhammer 40k --- http://tinyurl.com/ozuq4pq http://tinyurl.com/zy566j2 <cite>BakusaiTenketsu posted [p:898536800] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>SeabassDebeste posted...</cite> <quote>Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy?</quote> Warhammer 40k</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket_pub 03/26/18 5:29:44 PM #264:	SeabassDebeste posted... Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy? Mage Knight Board Game Honorable mention to Twilight Imperium --- Blasting off <cite>redrocket_pub posted [p:898537585] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>SeabassDebeste posted...</cite> <quote>Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy?</quote> Mage Knight Board Game Honorable mention to Twilight Imperium</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Emeraldegg 03/26/18 5:36:38 PM #265:	BakusaiTenketsu posted... SeabassDebeste posted... Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy? Warhammer 40k what armies do you play? im a grey knights guy myself --- I'm a greener egg than the eggs from dr. seuss <cite>Emeraldegg posted [p:898537979] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>BakusaiTenketsu posted...</cite> <quote><cite>SeabassDebeste posted...</cite> <quote>Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy?</quote> Warhammer 40k</quote> what armies do you play? im a grey knights guy myself</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BakusaiTenketsu 03/26/18 5:38:06 PM #266:	Emeraldegg posted... what armies do you play? I haven't played in years, but I was Sisters of Battle. Had a Saint Celestine even. --- http://tinyurl.com/ozuq4pq http://tinyurl.com/zy566j2 <cite>BakusaiTenketsu posted [p:898538080] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>Emeraldegg posted...</cite> <quote>what armies do you play?</quote> I haven't played in years, but I was Sisters of Battle. Had a Saint Celestine even.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Simoun 03/26/18 10:24:31 PM #267:	Through the Ages feels like I'm literally trudging through time itself. It was fun for the first time like literally the first but then it got really stale for me real fast --- It's not so cliche anymore when it's happening to you. <cite>Simoun posted [p:898554675] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>Through the Ages feels like I'm literally trudging through time itself. It was fun for the first time like literally the first but then it got really stale for me real fast</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/27/18 7:53:56 AM #268:	redrocket_pub posted... Mage Knight Board Game here's another i want to try! though odds seem against it, as i understand it's best solo... --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898571468] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>redrocket_pub posted...</cite> <quote>Mage Knight Board Game</quote> here's another i want to try! though odds seem against it, as i understand it's best solo...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Girugamesh 03/27/18 8:02:19 AM #269:	Mage Knight is mine too --- https://i.imgur.com/a/Ip36W <cite>Girugamesh posted [p:898571681] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>Mage Knight is mine too</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket_pub 03/27/18 8:40:04 AM #270:	SeabassDebeste posted... redrocket_pub posted... Mage Knight Board Game here's another i want to try! though odds seem against it, as i understand it's best solo... It's good solo, but "best" no. --- Blasting off <cite>redrocket_pub posted [p:898572723] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>SeabassDebeste posted...</cite> <quote><cite>redrocket_pub posted...</cite> <quote>Mage Knight Board Game</quote> here's another i want to try! though odds seem against it, as i understand it's best solo...</quote> It's good solo, but "best" no.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
cyko 03/27/18 9:33:51 AM #271:	SeabassDebeste posted... Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy? Hint for #5 - a eurogame that combines bidding with worker placement in a very unusual way I love Through the Ages. I first played it last year and it was my favorite game of the year. Maybe I should try the app because it is indeed tough to get to the table. I am setting up a time to play it in May with a group of friends so they have enough time to plan ahead, lol. Obviously, I prefer heavier games, but it's hard for me to quantify which one is the heaviest. So, according to BGG, these are the games I have played more than once and enjoyed that have a weight of at least 4 out of 5 for complexity - Through the Ages Food Chain Magnate Twilight Imperium Vinhos The complex games I would still really like to try - Lisboa Kanban Gaia Project The Colonists Madeira #5 has to be Keyflower. I just played Keyflower last week for about the third time and that has become another one of my favorites that I would love to play more. It's not terribly complex once you grasp the rules, but very satisfying. --- Yay - BkSheikah is the guru champion of awesomeness. <cite>cyko posted [p:898574382] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>SeabassDebeste posted...</cite> <quote>Bonus question - What's the heaviest game you enjoy? Hint for #5 - a eurogame that combines bidding with worker placement in a very unusual way</quote> I love Through the Ages. I first played it last year and it was my favorite game of the year. Maybe I should try the app because it is indeed tough to get to the table. I am setting up a time to play it in May with a group of friends so they have enough time to plan ahead, lol. Obviously, I prefer heavier games, but it's hard for me to quantify which one is the heaviest. So, according to BGG, these are the games I have played more than once and enjoyed that have a weight of at least 4 out of 5 for complexity - Through the Ages Food Chain Magnate Twilight Imperium Vinhos The complex games I would still really like to try - Lisboa Kanban Gaia Project The Colonists Madeira #5 has to be Keyflower. I just played Keyflower last week for about the third time and that has become another one of my favorites that I would love to play more. It's not terribly complex once you grasp the rules, but very satisfying.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/27/18 1:47:58 PM #272:	5. Keyflower https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/122515/keyflower Genre/mechanics: Auction, bidding, tile-laying, worker placement, tableau-building Rules complexity: 8/10 Game length: 60-120 minutes Player count: 2-6 Experience: 4 plays with 3, 6 players First played: 2016 In Keyflower, you develop your own village of hexagonal tiles over the course of four seasons. At the beginning of a season, the marketplace of tiles is opened to the public. At this point, players can use differently colored "keyples" for two purposes. Players can bid on hexes using same-colored keyples to be added to your village at the end of the season. Each hex is worth victory points at the end of the game and/or has a power that can be activated by placing a worker on it. Most allow you to upgrade them for extra VP. You also gain any workers placed on your hexes at the end of a season. Enjoyment - In a massive instance of bias, it should probably be noted that I've won Keyflower every time I've played. I'm not particularly good at games, so this should probably put a massive asterisk on my ranking. Our group got the game largely because of my interest in it. And I had just as much fun at six players as I did at three, despite some impatience with one or two players' decision time. --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898586733] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>5. Keyflower https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/122515/keyflower Genre/mechanics: Auction, bidding, tile-laying, worker placement, tableau-building Rules complexity: 8/10 Game length: 60-120 minutes Player count: 2-6 Experience: 4 plays with 3, 6 players First played: 2016 In Keyflower, you develop your own village of hexagonal tiles over the course of four seasons. At the beginning of a season, the marketplace of tiles is opened to the public. At this point, players can use differently colored "keyples" for two purposes. Players can bid on hexes using same-colored keyples to be added to your village at the end of the season. Each hex is worth victory points at the end of the game and/or has a power that can be activated by placing a worker on it. Most allow you to upgrade them for extra VP. You also gain any workers placed on your hexes at the end of a season. Enjoyment - In a massive instance of bias, it should probably be noted that I've won Keyflower every time I've played. I'm not particularly good at games, so this should probably put a massive asterisk on my ranking. Our group got the game largely because of my interest in it. And I had just as much fun at six players as I did at three, despite some impatience with one or two players' decision time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/27/18 1:48:01 PM #273:	Design - But I don't think it's all just the serotonin bonus of winning. Keyflower is a real joy to play. It's got a ton of rules to cover - you need to explain a handful of Winter Tiles before you even start the game, due to the fact you're dealt a few before the game even begins; and you need to understand upgrades, which you can't even start doing until Summer. But once you start, it's pretty fucking great. Each turn is one action, and you're always faced with interesting decisions. Your Keyples are both your bidding currency and your Workers to place. Place them in your own village, and you get to keep them, great! But place them in an opponent's village at the right time, and it won't matter that you missed out on that sweet four-horse tile. So where are your Keyples going? There's also the fact that being the first person to bid on or to activate a tile in any given round lets you dictate color - all Keyples used to bid on or activate a tile must be of the same color. Red, Yellow, and Blue Keyples are equally common, but if you have a large set of any given color, you can scare off others early off your tiles, or bait them into overcommitting to overbid you while you send your other Keyples elsewhere. But you can also use special abilities to get Green Keyples, and being first onto an area with that Green Keyple can be massively clutch. The mix of worker placement (a fairly obvious, mean mechanic) and bidding (a mechanic that tests timing and valuation) and then the color-coded Keyples on top of it, all using the same "currency" - it results in a highly interactive system that should never play out the same way, even if you play with all the hexes every game. On top of the phenomenal bidding game and war for hex activation, Keyflower has almost a different game going on where you want your village to be nice and pretty. The tiles you win get laid onto your board, but most of the early tiles aren't worth VP unless they're upgraded! So you can activate other tiles (using workers) to gain resources, and then use the special horse tiles to transport those resources to the hexes you want to upgrade. In an awesome mechanic, all you need to do to upgrade, physically, is to flip the hex upside down - it will have the same borders, but it will now be better and be worth VP. The process of laying out your village and physically transporting stone, wood, and iron across your hexes is relaxing and pretty - even if acquiring those resources and competing for the movement actions can be vicious. Due to the one-action-a-turn system, Keyflower is beautifully fast-moving. As I mentioned, I didn't feel I was suffering in a six-player game. That's virtually unheard of for a turn-based strategy game. And it's also been amazing to dig in at the less chaotic three-player count, with a bit more control over your destiny. Can only imagine that a two-player game is a slugfest. My only complaint with Keyflower is how it's a bit of a bear to teach and set up. Otherwise, thanks to its unique blend of mechanics, juicy and frequent decision points, low downtime, and fantastic scaling, it's almost certainly my favorite eurogame. Future - Keyflower is very high on my strategy games wishlist, along with Food Chain Magnate. I get the feeling it's not quite as beloved among the rest of my groups. It'll be interesting to see how much I enjoy it when my beginner's luck runs out. Bonus question - What is your favorite genre of games? What is your favorite game in a genre that is not your favorite? What is your favorite eurogame? Hint for #4 - it has very little to do with voltage divided by current --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898586738] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>Design - But I don't think it's all just the serotonin bonus of winning. Keyflower is a real joy to play. It's got a ton of rules to cover - you need to explain a handful of Winter Tiles before you even start the game, due to the fact you're dealt a few before the game even begins; and you need to understand upgrades, which you can't even start doing until Summer. But once you start, it's pretty fucking great. Each turn is one action, and you're always faced with interesting decisions. Your Keyples are both your bidding currency and your Workers to place. Place them in your own village, and you get to keep them, great! But place them in an opponent's village at the right time, and it won't matter that you missed out on that sweet four-horse tile. So where are your Keyples going? There's also the fact that being the first person to bid on or to activate a tile in any given round lets you dictate color - all Keyples used to bid on or activate a tile must be of the same color. Red, Yellow, and Blue Keyples are equally common, but if you have a large set of any given color, you can scare off others early off your tiles, or bait them into overcommitting to overbid you while you send your other Keyples elsewhere. But you can also use special abilities to get Green Keyples, and being first onto an area with that Green Keyple can be massively clutch. The mix of worker placement (a fairly obvious, mean mechanic) and bidding (a mechanic that tests timing and valuation) and then the color-coded Keyples on top of it, all using the same "currency" - it results in a highly interactive system that should never play out the same way, even if you play with all the hexes every game. On top of the phenomenal bidding game and war for hex activation, Keyflower has almost a different game going on where you want your village to be nice and pretty. The tiles you win get laid onto your board, but most of the early tiles aren't worth VP unless they're upgraded! So you can activate other tiles (using workers) to gain resources, and then use the special horse tiles to transport those resources to the hexes you want to upgrade. In an awesome mechanic, all you need to do to upgrade, physically, is to flip the hex upside down - it will have the same borders, but it will now be better and be worth VP. The process of laying out your village and physically transporting stone, wood, and iron across your hexes is relaxing and pretty - even if acquiring those resources and competing for the movement actions can be vicious. Due to the one-action-a-turn system, Keyflower is beautifully fast-moving. As I mentioned, I didn't feel I was suffering in a six-player game. That's virtually unheard of for a turn-based strategy game. And it's also been amazing to dig in at the less chaotic three-player count, with a bit more control over your destiny. Can only imagine that a two-player game is a slugfest. My only complaint with Keyflower is how it's a bit of a bear to teach and set up. Otherwise, thanks to its unique blend of mechanics, juicy and frequent decision points, low downtime, and fantastic scaling, it's almost certainly my favorite eurogame. Future - Keyflower is very high on my strategy games wishlist, along with Food Chain Magnate. I get the feeling it's not quite as beloved among the rest of my groups. It'll be interesting to see how much I enjoy it when my beginner's luck runs out. Bonus question - What is your favorite genre of games? What is your favorite game in a genre that is not your favorite? What is your favorite eurogame? Hint for #4 - it has very little to do with voltage divided by current</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Mana Sword 03/27/18 1:49:34 PM #274:	wasteland???? --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/Gylgamesh501.png <cite>The Mana Sword posted [p:898586808] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>wasteland????</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/27/18 2:01:06 PM #275:	cyko posted... I love Through the Ages. I first played it last year and it was my favorite game of the year. Maybe I should try the app because it is indeed tough to get to the table. I am setting up a time to play it in May with a group of friends so they have enough time to plan ahead, lol. That is planning ahead a lot. And yeah, Food Chain Magnate Twilight Imperium Vinhos The complex games I would still really like to try - Lisboa Kanban Gaia Project The Colonists Madeira Food Chain Magnate took fucking forever - it was one experienced player and four newbies - but I loved it the one time I tried it (not with my usual group, at a meetup). It's probably too punishing to become a mainstay in my group, but I'd love to own it. Alas, the defining factor might be that you need a serious organizer just to get it in a playable physical form. I've only really heard much about Kanban, but the theme to me is hilariously dry. #5 has to be Keyflower. I just played Keyflower last week for about the third time and that has become another one of my favorites that I would love to play more. It's not terribly complex once you grasp the rules, but very satisfying. Good call! --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898587455] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>cyko posted...</cite> <quote>I love Through the Ages. I first played it last year and it was my favorite game of the year. Maybe I should try the app because it is indeed tough to get to the table. I am setting up a time to play it in May with a group of friends so they have enough time to plan ahead, lol.</quote> That is planning ahead a lot. And yeah, <quote>Food Chain Magnate Twilight Imperium Vinhos The complex games I would still really like to try - Lisboa Kanban Gaia Project The Colonists Madeira</quote> Food Chain Magnate took fucking forever - it was one experienced player and four newbies - but I loved it the one time I tried it (not with my usual group, at a meetup). It's probably too punishing to become a mainstay in my group, but I'd love to own it. Alas, the defining factor might be that you need a serious organizer just to get it in a playable physical form. I've only really heard much about Kanban, but the theme to me is hilariously dry. <quote>#5 has to be Keyflower. I just played Keyflower last week for about the third time and that has become another one of my favorites that I would love to play more. It's not terribly complex once you grasp the rules, but very satisfying.</quote> Good call!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
trdl23 03/27/18 2:16:55 PM #276:	Heh, thats a good punny hint. Resistance. --- E come vivo? Vivo! <cite>trdl23 posted [p:898588365] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>Heh, thats a good punny hint. Resistance.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BakusaiTenketsu 03/27/18 4:53:52 PM #277:	Yeah, I'm not really even sure that was a hint tbqh. --- http://tinyurl.com/ozuq4pq http://tinyurl.com/zy566j2 <cite>BakusaiTenketsu posted [p:898597307] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>Yeah, I'm not really even sure that was a hint tbqh.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/27/18 5:14:38 PM #279:	some people are just so hard to please! working on #4 to post soon. in the meantime, if anyone still wants to guess the remaining games based on my hints... #10 is obscure enough that i'd be okay if people tried to use google on my previous hint to find it. it'll probably turn up. - Dracula's Feast (10) two of the entries (which will be ranked together) are a 3 + 1 - as in 3 really similar games, plus one in the same franchise - Pandemic Legacy (8), Pandemic/Forbidden Island/Forbidden Desert (9) there are three euros left on the game, including one that's by far the heaviest game here outside of AGOT:TBG - Concordia (9), Through the Ages (6), Keyflower (5) two are mega-popular games, and their names have almost certainly come up in these topics one is an ancient mass market game that has been re-implemented by the hobby market, but i have the mass-market version on this list one is an obscure lifestyle game based on a non-obscure IP --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898598526] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>some people are just so hard to please! working on #4 to post soon. in the meantime, if anyone still wants to guess the remaining games based on my hints... <quote>#10 is obscure enough that i'd be okay if people tried to use google on my previous hint to find it. it'll probably turn up. - Dracula's Feast (10) two of the entries (which will be ranked together) are a 3 + 1 - as in 3 really similar games, plus one in the same franchise - Pandemic Legacy (8), Pandemic/Forbidden Island/Forbidden Desert (9) there are three euros left on the game, including one that's by far the heaviest game here outside of AGOT:TBG - Concordia (9), Through the Ages (6), Keyflower (5) two are mega-popular games, and their names have almost certainly come up in these topics one is an ancient mass market game that has been re-implemented by the hobby market, but i have the mass-market version on this list one is an obscure lifestyle game based on a non-obscure IP</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor 03/28/18 12:03:56 AM #280:	I had forgotten about resistance, after all the other entries in the genre fell off so early. Great game, probably the one I've played the most Had to stop playing it with my lunch group because we couldn't help but be too loud... --- You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured. <cite>banananor posted [p:898621786] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>I had forgotten about resistance, after all the other entries in the genre fell off so early. Great game, probably the one I've played the most Had to stop playing it with my lunch group because we couldn't help but be too loud...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Simoun 03/28/18 5:12:43 AM #281:	Keyflower is so good --- It's not so cliche anymore when it's happening to you. <cite>Simoun posted [p:898630627] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>Keyflower is so good</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/28/18 10:10:25 AM #282:	4. The Resistance: Avalon https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/128882/resistance-avalon Genre/mechanics: Social deduction, hidden roles, team vs team, simultaneous voting Rules complexity: 4/10 Game length: 20-60 minutes (depending on argumentativeness) Player count: 5-10 Experience: 100+ plays with 5-10 players First played: 2013 The Resistance is a social deduction game in the vein of Mafia, with hidden roles dealt to an informed minority team that knows one another (Evil) and an uninformed majority team that's mostly blind (Good). The game is contested over five "missions," split between the team selection phase - where a rotating leader gets to pick a subgroup of players, which everyone at the table votes on - and the mission itself, during which each player secretly submits a success or a fail for the mission. A mission outcome with even one fail results in a mission failure, and three failures mean a bad team win. In Avalon, special roles are added, with the the most important addition being Merlin, a Good guy who knows all of the Bad team - but who the Bad team can identify for an instant win condition. Design - Before I gush all over my personal experiences with Avalon, I want explain why the game is so damn good. First off, it pretty much perfects the face-to-face Mafia experience for a limited number of players. No more player elimination to fuck you over, and a round timer limit. It's also a near-zero-luck game where you're always engaged (as the meat of the game is in reading others and discussing your findings), and you get to do something every turn, even if not talking - the vote on whether to allow a team to go through involves everyone. And that includes if you're a good guy who's been arbitrarily labeled bad, or if you're a bad guy who got outed and no one trusts anymore. Maybe you don't get to have anyone listen to you anymore, but you can still affect the game's outcome with your voting tiles. Eliminating player elimination is brilliant. The game gives some tension to the Bad teams when they're on a mission together. You usually want to strike a balance between having a mission fail, which advances the win condition, and buying trust, which enables you to fail more missions later. (The crux of the game is the idea of majority/minority - the good guys have a majority, so every election is controlled by at least one of the good guys.) If the two bad guys throw zero fail cards between the two of them, they may badly out themselves. But if they throw none between the two of them, you don't advance the winning condition, and you don't know how you'll coordinate going forward, either. I alluded to Resistance fairly transparently during the first writeup in this topic (Secret Hitler). That game annoys me because it's all chrome and edgy theme. It takes Avalon, makes it worse, and then serves that shit to you on a more expensive platter. Avalon is pure as fuck. You don't have anything fucking with you. You got the teams nominated, you got the voting patterns, you got what people say and how they act. You got good guys trying to figure out who bad guys are and bad guys trying to hide out and figure out who Merlin is. And that's it. The game gets out of the way and lets you play. You can tell that it's been playtested to death for tightness and balance - the five-mission structure that allows both teams to have chances for counterplay without dragging a game on inevitably; the increasing number of players that must go on each mission to ratchet up the tension; the must-approve-team-five rule that gives good guys incentive not to vote Reject. Favorite player counts: 7 and 8. I like using Merlin, Percival, Mordred, Morgana, and Oberon in these games. At 10, removing Mordred and adding Lady of the Lake seems good - but I haven't played much ten-player lately. --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898638299] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>4. The Resistance: Avalon https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/128882/resistance-avalon Genre/mechanics: Social deduction, hidden roles, team vs team, simultaneous voting Rules complexity: 4/10 Game length: 20-60 minutes (depending on argumentativeness) Player count: 5-10 Experience: 100+ plays with 5-10 players First played: 2013 The Resistance is a social deduction game in the vein of Mafia, with hidden roles dealt to an informed minority team that knows one another (Evil) and an uninformed majority team that's mostly blind (Good). The game is contested over five "missions," split between the team selection phase - where a rotating leader gets to pick a subgroup of players, which everyone at the table votes on - and the mission itself, during which each player secretly submits a success or a fail for the mission. A mission outcome with even one fail results in a mission failure, and three failures mean a bad team win. In Avalon, special roles are added, with the the most important addition being Merlin, a Good guy who knows all of the Bad team - but who the Bad team can identify for an instant win condition. Design - Before I gush all over my personal experiences with Avalon, I want explain why the game is so damn good. First off, it pretty much perfects the face-to-face Mafia experience for a limited number of players. No more player elimination to fuck you over, and a round timer limit. It's also a near-zero-luck game where you're always engaged (as the meat of the game is in reading others and discussing your findings), and you get to do something every turn, even if not talking - the vote on whether to allow a team to go through involves everyone. And that includes if you're a good guy who's been arbitrarily labeled bad, or if you're a bad guy who got outed and no one trusts anymore. Maybe you don't get to have anyone listen to you anymore, but you can still affect the game's outcome with your voting tiles. Eliminating player elimination is brilliant. The game gives some tension to the Bad teams when they're on a mission together. You usually want to strike a balance between having a mission fail, which advances the win condition, and buying trust, which enables you to fail more missions later. (The crux of the game is the idea of majority/minority - the good guys have a majority, so every election is controlled by at least one of the good guys.) If the two bad guys throw zero fail cards between the two of them, they may badly out themselves. But if they throw none between the two of them, you don't advance the winning condition, and you don't know how you'll coordinate going forward, either. I alluded to Resistance fairly transparently during the first writeup in this topic (Secret Hitler). That game annoys me because it's all chrome and edgy theme. It takes Avalon, makes it worse, and then serves that shit to you on a more expensive platter. Avalon is pure as fuck. You don't have anything fucking with you. You got the teams nominated, you got the voting patterns, you got what people say and how they act. You got good guys trying to figure out who bad guys are and bad guys trying to hide out and figure out who Merlin is. And that's it. The game gets out of the way and lets you play. You can tell that it's been playtested to death for tightness and balance - the five-mission structure that allows both teams to have chances for counterplay without dragging a game on inevitably; the increasing number of players that must go on each mission to ratchet up the tension; the must-approve-team-five rule that gives good guys incentive not to vote Reject. Favorite player counts: 7 and 8. I like using Merlin, Percival, Mordred, Morgana, and Oberon in these games. At 10, removing Mordred and adding Lady of the Lake seems good - but I haven't played much ten-player lately.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/28/18 10:10:38 AM #283:	Enjoyment - I played a lot of Mafia on B8 and AIM back in the day, but I mostly stopped. A few years after that, I introduced it one day with some casual friends after a cookout one day. Then one of said casual friends' roommates joined in - she also played online, but on a site specifically designed for Mafia. And that was that, a nice one-time thing. Months later, out of the blue, she messaged me about playing this new game Avalon. I played five times that first night (and drank a good amount of beer), and it's how I met the core of my gaming group. From there, we'd have occasional Avalon nights - four or five or more games a night. After the original friend moved away, I got a copy as well, and the group still stayed together. After I became a hobby gamer, I played with a mostly different group that was primarily into playing lots of different hobby games. And somehow, they didn't all like yelling at each other or grilling each other about their allegiances. A lighter, more concrete experience like Blood Bound was about as deep as they wanted to go with serious confrontation. The downside of Avalon is that it can be immensely unsatisfying if the players don't engage, or play without thought (random approvals where they don't bother justifying anything... augh). So it was Avalon with the old crew and different games with the new. My appetite has also changed over time. I still like the idea of Avalon to end a game night if we have seven or more people (and they're all fans of Avalon), but the constant grind of confrontation now often feels like it's got too big an opportunity cost (in terms of trying out new games, or getting reps for a broader set of games). I no longer have much desire to play Avalon with strangers - unless I luck into the right crowd, I tend to find a lot of people's personalities grating, and I seem to lose a lot in games with lots of new players new players, too. It has to be a group of people I trust to play an enjoyable game of Avalon, and at a meetup, that's gonna be rare. I almost never had a bad Avalon experience at one point, but that has changed with lots of mediocre ones from playing with the wrong people. --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898638307] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>Enjoyment - I played a lot of Mafia on B8 and AIM back in the day, but I mostly stopped. A few years after that, I introduced it one day with some casual friends after a cookout one day. Then one of said casual friends' roommates joined in - she also played online, but on a site specifically designed for Mafia. And that was that, a nice one-time thing. Months later, out of the blue, she messaged me about playing this new game Avalon. I played five times that first night (and drank a good amount of beer), and it's how I met the core of my gaming group. From there, we'd have occasional Avalon nights - four or five or more games a night. After the original friend moved away, I got a copy as well, and the group still stayed together. After I became a hobby gamer, I played with a mostly different group that was primarily into playing lots of different hobby games. And somehow, they didn't all like yelling at each other or grilling each other about their allegiances. A lighter, more concrete experience like Blood Bound was about as deep as they wanted to go with serious confrontation. The downside of Avalon is that it can be immensely unsatisfying if the players don't engage, or play without thought (random approvals where they don't bother justifying anything... augh). So it was Avalon with the old crew and different games with the new. My appetite has also changed over time. I still like the idea of Avalon to end a game night if we have seven or more people (and they're all fans of Avalon), but the constant grind of confrontation now often feels like it's got too big an opportunity cost (in terms of trying out new games, or getting reps for a broader set of games). I no longer have much desire to play Avalon with strangers - unless I luck into the right crowd, I tend to find a lot of people's personalities grating, and I seem to lose a lot in games with lots of new players new players, too. It has to be a group of people I trust to play an enjoyable game of Avalon, and at a meetup, that's gonna be rare. I almost never had a bad Avalon experience at one point, but that has changed with lots of mediocre ones from playing with the wrong people.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/28/18 10:11:36 AM #284:	Each game also has to compete against a massive treasure trove of great Avalon memories, which is unfair to new games, but a massive tribute to how much I've loved Avalon. My first game, I gained the trust of another new-ish player as Evil in the first round, and he followed me to doom for three straight missions afterward. That first night culminated in a ten-player game where on Mission 5, the good team - which I was on - wound up throwing a fail. I interrogated everyone after the fact and then looked at what I'd done - I'd accidentally put a fail card in. I was Merlin. The next night, we played a ten-player game starting 0-2, and Percival - who I'd assumed was bad - seemed ready to give up. We spent maybe twenty minutes on Day 3 and clawed our way viciously back to a victory, going to the fifth vote each day. The Evil team debated for maybe fifteen minutes before finally deciding (correctly) on Merlin. I've enjoyed watching the look of discovery settle in on people when they realize how cool the game they're dealing with really is. I've watched clueless good people figure out who Merlin is and then lead games to effortless victories. I've accidentally thrown a double-fail in a six-person game on round one, apologized after our team immediately lost the next three days, and picked out Merlin because they were the only ones who weren't exuberant after the fact. I've been Percival and watched as one of my Merlin candidates went with another player and succeeded Missions 1, 2, and 3... and then watched in utter confusion as those two people, based on my comments, pick out Merlin. They were Morgana and the Assassin. I've watched the new girl turn against her veteran boyfriend and accuse him of being evil - and then be right and win the game for good. I've been incredibly angry about games and complained and thought about them for days and discussed them over and over. We have couples who stare into each other's eyes to determine veracity; we have the person who always claims she's "confused" and always seems to draw Evil; we have nicknames for the vanilla blue characters. So yeah, that's the type of relationship I've had with Avalon. Future - Like I said, I'm not super-keen on playing Avalon with people I'm unsure about anymore, because they don't see the game in the same decision space I do - more focused on mechanics than on deduction. I also now lean more toward a "let's just go with the flow" angle instead of wanting to dissect each little detail. (One of the cool things about Avalon is that you can win by willpower - put in enough effort, and people will be able to tell you're good - it's harder to muster that effort as a bad guy.) Essentially, my predisposition for shortening downtime and getting to the point has seeped into my Avalon preferences. I'll still play, but I no longer desire for it to dominate gaming sessions. I haven't completely moved on as it is still probably the most engaging game at this player count with the right crowd, but I'm no longer compelled the same way. And that's okay. Bonus question - What is your favorite social deduction game? What are some of your favorite memories from interacting with others in games? Hint for #3 - it ain't T or C, it's L --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898638343] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>Each game also has to compete against a massive treasure trove of great Avalon memories, which is unfair to new games, but a massive tribute to how much I've loved Avalon. My first game, I gained the trust of another new-ish player as Evil in the first round, and he followed me to doom for three straight missions afterward. That first night culminated in a ten-player game where on Mission 5, the good team - which I was on - wound up throwing a fail. I interrogated everyone after the fact and then looked at what I'd done - I'd accidentally put a fail card in. I was Merlin. The next night, we played a ten-player game starting 0-2, and Percival - who I'd assumed was bad - seemed ready to give up. We spent maybe twenty minutes on Day 3 and clawed our way viciously back to a victory, going to the fifth vote each day. The Evil team debated for maybe fifteen minutes before finally deciding (correctly) on Merlin. I've enjoyed watching the look of discovery settle in on people when they realize how cool the game they're dealing with really is. I've watched clueless good people figure out who Merlin is and then lead games to effortless victories. I've accidentally thrown a double-fail in a six-person game on round one, apologized after our team immediately lost the next three days, and picked out Merlin because they were the only ones who weren't exuberant after the fact. I've been Percival and watched as one of my Merlin candidates went with another player and succeeded Missions 1, 2, and 3... and then watched in utter confusion as those two people, based on my comments, pick out Merlin. They were Morgana and the Assassin. I've watched the new girl turn against her veteran boyfriend and accuse him of being evil - and then be right and win the game for good. I've been incredibly angry about games and complained and thought about them for days and discussed them over and over. We have couples who stare into each other's eyes to determine veracity; we have the person who always claims she's "confused" and always seems to draw Evil; we have nicknames for the vanilla blue characters. So yeah, that's the type of relationship I've had with Avalon. Future - Like I said, I'm not super-keen on playing Avalon with people I'm unsure about anymore, because they don't see the game in the same decision space I do - more focused on mechanics than on deduction. I also now lean more toward a "let's just go with the flow" angle instead of wanting to dissect each little detail. (One of the cool things about Avalon is that you can win by willpower - put in enough effort, and people will be able to tell you're good - it's harder to muster that effort as a bad guy.) Essentially, my predisposition for shortening downtime and getting to the point has seeped into my Avalon preferences. I'll still play, but I no longer desire for it to dominate gaming sessions. I haven't completely moved on as it is still probably the most engaging game at this player count with the right crowd, but I'm no longer compelled the same way. And that's okay. Bonus question - What is your favorite social deduction game? What are some of your favorite memories from interacting with others in games? Hint for #3 - it ain't T or C, it's L</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
My Immortal 03/28/18 10:31:25 AM #285:	I love Resistance but I've never played Avalon. I should get that! --- #VnaaVimmDrnuddma <cite>My Immortal posted [p:898639275] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>I love Resistance but I've never played Avalon. I should get that!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/28/18 10:46:05 AM #286:	I was introduced to Avalon (which is available as a Resistance expansion - Hidden Agena Module?) directly. I've played it without roles a few times when we had only five or six players, but never with the Plot Cards, or whatever you call 'em. I might like to try those. I love the extra layer that Merlin adds to the game, though. It makes the good team more likely to win missions, but the evil team now has something they get to try to solve. And that's fantastic news for everyone. --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898640001] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>I was introduced to Avalon (which is available as a Resistance expansion - Hidden Agena Module?) directly. I've played it without roles a few times when we had only five or six players, but never with the Plot Cards, or whatever you call 'em. I might like to try those. I love the extra layer that Merlin adds to the game, though. It makes the good team more likely to win missions, but the evil team now has something they get to try to solve. And that's fantastic news for everyone.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket_pub 03/28/18 11:08:54 AM #287:	I have no real interest in pure social deduction games. My favorite game that uses that mechanic would be the Battlestar Galactica board game, because there's a lot more going on. --- Blasting off <cite>redrocket_pub posted [p:898641013] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>I have no real interest in pure social deduction games. My favorite game that uses that mechanic would be the Battlestar Galactica board game, because there's a lot more going on.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KommunistKoala 03/28/18 11:22:12 AM #288:	avalon is fantastic --- does anyone even read this <cite>KommunistKoala posted [p:898641661] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>avalon is fantastic</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor 03/28/18 11:22:48 AM #289:	i've never tried avalon, but i've played a lot of hidden agenda. they're the exact same game, right? and yeah, base resistance without any roles feels impossible as the good guys --- You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured. <cite>banananor posted [p:898641700] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>i've never tried avalon, but i've played a lot of hidden agenda. they're the exact same game, right? and yeah, base resistance without any roles feels impossible as the good guys</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
My Immortal 03/28/18 11:24:09 AM #290:	banananor posted... and yeah, base resistance without any roles feels impossible as the good guys Really? In my group the good guys win more often than not. --- #VnaaVimmDrnuddma <cite>My Immortal posted [p:898641759] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>banananor posted...</cite> <quote> and yeah, base resistance without any roles feels impossible as the good guys</quote> Really? In my group the good guys win more often than not.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Mana Sword 03/28/18 11:55:27 AM #291:	My Immortal posted... banananor posted... and yeah, base resistance without any roles feels impossible as the good guys Really? In my group the good guys win more often than not. same --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/Gylgamesh501.png <cite>The Mana Sword posted [p:898643432] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>My Immortal posted...</cite> <quote><cite>banananor posted...</cite> <quote> and yeah, base resistance without any roles feels impossible as the good guys</quote> Really? In my group the good guys win more often than not.</quote> same</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor 03/28/18 12:00:56 PM #292:	IIRC, with zero information it was just really, really easy to win as spies the inquisitor helps the good guys too much playing with the commander, bodyguard and assassin felt just about right, although we didn't keep track of stats or anything i mean, maybe my group is just better at lying than playing detective. ymmv i guess? what player counts did you play at --- You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured. <cite>banananor posted [p:898643715] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>IIRC, with zero information it was just really, really easy to win as spies the inquisitor helps the good guys too much playing with the commander, bodyguard and assassin felt just about right, although we didn't keep track of stats or anything i mean, maybe my group is just better at lying than playing detective. ymmv i guess? what player counts did you play at</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
My Immortal 03/28/18 12:10:55 PM #293:	6-7 is our norm --- #VnaaVimmDrnuddma <cite>My Immortal posted [p:898644200] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>6-7 is our norm</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Mana Sword 03/28/18 12:13:09 PM #294:	Yeah, 6-7 is the norm for us as well. A lot of it stems from the fact that the spies get put in a tough position in the first few rounds if two of them get sent on a mission together. If they both submit fail, then you've already blocked off 2/3 of them in one shot. If neither of them submit fail, then the good guys get an easy win. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/Gylgamesh501.png <cite>The Mana Sword posted [p:898644316] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>Yeah, 6-7 is the norm for us as well. A lot of it stems from the fact that the spies get put in a tough position in the first few rounds if two of them get sent on a mission together. If they both submit fail, then you've already blocked off 2/3 of them in one shot. If neither of them submit fail, then the good guys get an easy win.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/28/18 12:26:49 PM #296:	In a 6-7 player game, the first mission only has 2 people on it. It's impossible for 2 bad guys to get on it unless they chose to be on it together. --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898645086] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>In a 6-7 player game, the first mission only has 2 people on it. It's impossible for 2 bad guys to get on it unless they chose to be on it together.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Mana Sword 03/28/18 12:29:02 PM #297:	Right, well in a game where the first mission is 2 people it's a wash anyway, because no spy is going to out themselves as 1 of 2 people that early. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/Gylgamesh501.png <cite>The Mana Sword posted [p:898645191] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>Right, well in a game where the first mission is 2 people it's a wash anyway, because no spy is going to out themselves as 1 of 2 people that early.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
My Immortal 03/28/18 12:29:16 PM #298:	If both the people picked to go on a mission together reject it I'm going to be suspicious though --- #VnaaVimmDrnuddma <cite>My Immortal posted [p:898645202] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>If both the people picked to go on a mission together reject it I'm going to be suspicious though</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/28/18 12:41:12 PM #299:	The Mana Sword posted... Right, well in a game where the first mission is 2 people it's a wash anyway, because no spy is going to out themselves as 1 of 2 people that early. sounds like your meta needs to be shaken up with a few mission 1 fails, then! with only one bad outed in round 1, odds are pretty decent that bad guy #2 gets onto mission 2 or 3 - and then even if 3 and 4 go through, you have to deal with mission 5, where you need to be flawless (edit) though hiding on round 1 is a bit stronger in avalon, since it could more easily force merlin's hand My Immortal posted... If both the people picked to go on a mission together reject it I'm going to be suspicious though our meta frowns heavily against picking a team without the leader on it, and i think that should pretty much always be the case! --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898645817] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Mana Sword posted...</cite> <quote>Right, well in a game where the first mission is 2 people it's a wash anyway, because no spy is going to out themselves as 1 of 2 people that early.</quote> sounds like your meta needs to be shaken up with a few mission 1 fails, then! with only one bad outed in round 1, odds are pretty decent that bad guy #2 gets onto mission 2 or 3 - and then even if 3 and 4 go through, you have to deal with mission 5, where you need to be flawless (edit) though hiding on round 1 is a bit stronger in avalon, since it could more easily force merlin's hand <cite>My Immortal posted...</cite> <quote>If both the people picked to go on a mission together reject it I'm going to be suspicious though</quote> our meta frowns heavily against picking a team without the leader on it, and i think that should pretty much always be the case!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Simoun 03/28/18 1:41:41 PM #300:	I love Resistance when it first came out. It's like it fixes all the things that made Mafia inaccessible to noobs: The constantly open information, the lack of elimination, the importance of vanilla roles (for Avalon which had special roles). Resistance was able to make me retroactively appreciate Mafia. --- It's not so cliche anymore when it's happening to you. <cite>Simoun posted [p:898649239] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>I love Resistance when it first came out. It's like it fixes all the things that made Mafia inaccessible to noobs: The constantly open information, the lack of elimination, the importance of vanilla roles (for Avalon which had special roles). Resistance was able to make me retroactively appreciate Mafia.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/28/18 1:48:59 PM #301:	mafia is the purest social deduction game of them all, and as i've said before, it's not fun if there's no chance for hurt feelings that said, i'm just rarely in the mood for hurt feelings anymore, these days. gone soft. also @Simoun thought you didn't like eurogames, glad you like keyflower! --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:898649640] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>mafia is the purest social deduction game of them all, and as i've said before, it's not fun if there's no chance for hurt feelings that said, i'm just rarely in the mood for hurt feelings anymore, these days. gone soft. also @Simoun thought you didn't like eurogames, glad you like keyflower!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Simoun 03/28/18 2:36:23 PM #302:	It's hard to play Mafia where I am. The best I can get it is on chats (forums take too long). So when Resistance comes along in an age when boardgames are now a thing, there's a whole lot more casuals to play around with. That is to say, I wouldn't refuse a serious game of Mafia which simply doesn't exist for me. I didn't say I didn't like euros, just that I don't prefer them. But I'm not a purist as to completely reject good euros. And there are bad Ameritrashes as well :D I can appreciate a good Euro when I see one EDIT: I'm actually too lazy to check if I did say I hate Euros. I'm clarifying haha --- It's not so cliche anymore when it's happening to you. <cite>Simoun posted [p:898652330] in thirty-one... [t:76412082]...</cite> <quote>It's hard to play Mafia where I am. The best I can get it is on chats (forums take too long). So when Resistance comes along in an age when boardgames are now a thing, there's a whole lot more casuals to play around with. That is to say, I wouldn't refuse a serious game of Mafia which simply doesn't exist for me. I didn't say I didn't like euros, just that I don't prefer them. But I'm not a purist as to completely reject good euros. And there are bad Ameritrashes as well :D I can appreciate a good Euro when I see one EDIT: I'm actually too lazy to check if I did say I hate Euros. I'm clarifying haha</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > thirty-one tabletop games, ranked (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > thirty-one tabletop games, ranked