Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 443: The Decent Backlash

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

Marina Shafir and Jessamyn Duke are now officially signed with WWE

Maybe the reason they wont pull the trigger on Sasha vs Bayley is that they need them to be on good enough terms to do Horsewomen vs Horsewomen <_<

Given how well the other two Horsewomen have been doing with very experience, I'm pretty okay with this.

Can Marina Shafir debut as a heel? I'd love to see UE add a woman.
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XIII_rocks posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Yes, cheap wins build no credibility, but Carmella shouldnt HAVE that sort of credibility. Shes not Ruby Riott.

I'd argue against this. You can cheat and still lose. The more you cheat the less credibility gained, obviously, but something like say Ambrose vs. Styles last year where Styles won with only a low blow made it clear that Styles was basically equal to Ambrose. It would have been strange for Styles, who in kayfabe is outstandingly good face or heel, to need multiple weapons shots, distractions, interferences, exposed turnbuckles etc to win. Just one low blow was all it took to tip the scales.

Like you have to be close enough to them that a low blow is all you need to get the win, I guess?

Had Carmella won here with only, say, feet on the ropes or a slight distraction then that would have shown she can compete with Charlotte which in Carmella's case is quite a big gain.

I think eye pokes are the most effective method in this case. Charlotte has her basically beaten and goes for the figure 8, but as shes applying the hold, Carmella rakes the eyes, hits her with a blow she cant see coming, and then rolls her up with a handful of tights.

I think that sends the right message about the disparity between them while also putting over Carmella as an effective cheater.

Maybe thats not the best finish in the world, but having Carmella control Charlotte most of the match while Charlotte lays there bored and not putting her offense over at all surely was not the answer.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Marina Shafir and Jessamyn Duke are now officially signed with WWE

Maybe the reason they wont pull the trigger on Sasha vs Bayley is that they need them to be on good enough terms to do Horsewomen vs Horsewomen <_<

Given how well the other two Horsewomen have been doing with very experience, I'm pretty okay with this.

Can Marina Shafir debut as a heel? I'd love to see UE add a woman.

Didnt they have Taynara Conti for a minute?

I reckon theyll both debut in the MYC2
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Jakyl25 posted...

Didnt they have Taynara Conti for a minute?

I reckon theyll both debut in the MYC2

They were just manipulating her sadly. I still count her as a member.
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https://twitter.com/davemeltzerwon/status/993566863345860608?s=21

Sorry for all the problems. Literally, because of how bad the WWE show was last night, we had so many people trying to access the shows that the host thought our site was under a DDOS attack and tried to shut down the members content.

Truly a historic night in the history of our sport
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Admittedly, Bryan Alvarez is at his best when he utterly hates a show.
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I had a hell of a time trying to access both reviews of the show this morning actually. I knew instantly it had to be because this show was so legendarily bad that everyone wanted their takes.
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Theyre both on SoundCloud for free because of the issues

Its Bryan Alvarezs pinned tweet if you want the link
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I downloaded them both for tomorrow (studying for finals after work today), so let me know (if anyone listens) how good they are.
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Listening to WOR right now.

Dave opens with like 25 minutes going over the 1Q WWE financials just to make the point that they dont give a shit about pissing off their fans.

The experiment he was referring to last night was that they added the Elias segment to the PPV to deliberately make the PPV run extra long because theyre trying to increase overall viewing minutes per subscriber. THATS the stat theyre into now.
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I just realized something really silly

AJ vs Nakamura is probably headed to Last Man Standing after last night

But if last night was a LMS match, the ending would have been the same double KO draw
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The Samoa Joe vs Reigns match was deliberately designed for Joe to be boring in the hopes that it would help Reigns get over when he beat him.

LOL
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Jakyl25 posted...

The Samoa Joe vs Reigns match was deliberately designed for Joe to be boring in the hopes that it would help Reigns get over when he beat him.

LOL

That's some quality logic if Roman didn't already receive the blame for every bad booking decision. It's not going to hurt Joe in the slightest; it's a blip on his radar right now because he's over on Smackdown. He'll be wrestling people he's allowed to beat once again because "Who cares about Smackdown?"
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I remember like a year ago when Apple released their terrible new iPhone that didn't have a headphone jack and started selling a $20 adapter for it and it further confirmed to me that Apple no longer cared about putting out a product that they even pretended was actual quality. They were testing the theory that their customers were so loyal that they would continue to buy any piece of shit they put into the market no matter what.

That's where WWE is.
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Best of Super Juniors blocks

BLOCK A
Ospreay
Ishimori
ACH
BUSHI
Gordon
Yoh
Kanemaru
Tiger Mask

BLOCK B
KUSHIDA
Takahashi
Sabin
Scurll
Dragon Lee
Sho
Desperado
Taguchi

First show for Block A will be free to watch on New Japan World
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This is a better line-up than last year, honestly.
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Well its losing Liger, TAKA, Taichi, Volador Jr, and Ricochet and gaining Ishimori, Sho, Yoh, Flip Gordon, and Chris Sabin

Definitely an overall upgrade
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Never forget the TAKA-Taichi match. One of the greatest bouts of all time.
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Jakyl25 posted...

The Samoa Joe vs Reigns match was deliberately designed for Joe to be boring in the hopes that it would help Reigns get over when he beat him.

LOL

I... can't even make sense of this, even when trying to go into Vince logic. If they're elbow deep in the toilet trying to come up with something to get the guy over, what makes them think that's going to be the magic formula? Make everyone else so boring that Roman seems interesting by comparison? The company would go out of business by then if everyone was Roman levels of boring.

According to dirtsheets, it's either going to be Brock vs. Braun (or Roman again) at MitB. Save us Braun!
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This is hardly new - back when never-losing Cena was getting booed too much, they used to feud him with Orton as something of a "look here - it could be even worse" threat!
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Gotta be Ishimori/Takahashi in the finals, right?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Dave opens with like 25 minutes going over the 1Q WWE financials just to make the point that they dont give a shit about pissing off their fans.

I mean

Is this a good idea in the long term? To antagonize your audience?
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XIII_rocks posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Dave opens with like 25 minutes going over the 1Q WWE financials just to make the point that they dont give a shit about pissing off their fans.

I mean

Is this a good idea in the long term? To antagonize your audience?

It isn't, and I find myself hoping it comes back to bite them in the ass before I remember that would be bad for a lot of people who have nothing to do with the decision making and general insanity of the people that run the place.
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This idea that they can just shit on all of Roman's opponents and make them look bad to get people to cheer for Roman is insanity. I cannot imagine there are actually a group of people in charge who think that idea is good. I just can't understand it.
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NBIceman posted...

Gotta be Ishimori/Takahashi in the finals, right?

Ishimori/Dragon Lee
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It's really scary when you think about it, if that's true. They're so desperate to get Roman over that they're trying to make a boring product, and make more talented people look bad just to make Roman look good, and to try and get him over despite it being pretty obvious now that he's never going to be accepted by a huge portion of the fanbase.

I wonder what would happen at this point if Roman walked up to Vince and asked to turn heel. If they had turned him years ago he'd probably be more accepted now instead of rejected by pretty much everybody over the age of 12. If Roman wasn't so hated, I don't know if Braun gets over as much as he is right now. People wouldn't care and get so excited if Braun was destroying Rollins every week, but since it's Roman Braun becomes a face in the eyes of the audience just because they hate Roman so much. In that way, fan apathy towards Roman created Strowman. WWE has to choose who becomes the guy to dethrone Lesnar, Roman, or apathy towards Roman.
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Oh god. Bryan and Vinny are having an aneurysm about this show. Jesus Christ.
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I'm hearing that there were "Beat the traffic!" chants during the main event as swaths of people actually just up and left early.

How can anyone on the corporate side of this company be okay with seeing this? They've been running this experiment for over four years now, there's no shame in throwing in the towel and admitting defeat. It could actually -- gasp, shock, awe -- improve the product overall!
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I really wish they would. I want to like Roman, he doesn't seem like the nicest guy off screen but he doesn't seem like a terrible person either. He has a family to take care of. Even knowing that I still have a hard time seeing him out there because I'm just so tired of them telling me who I should and shouldn't like.

If he has a character shift where he just starts wrecking people and doesn't talk I think I could get behind that. I can't get behind the Roman they've presented the last 4 years though.
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also

wasn't part of reign's WM build up that management plays favorites and doesn't like him

and then he main events a PPV, over the WWE Championship, with a "feud" that means nothing because they aren't even on the same show anymore

jimcornetteface.jpg
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In Vince's mind, WWE has achieved record revenue and is about to get the biggest tv deal ever during this Roman experiment.

He can explain anything away.
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If people started leaving to go to the bathroom/concessions/home every time Roman's music hit I don't think they'd get the point, even if Roman was cutting a promo about how management hates him to an empty arena that magically fills up as soon as he goes backstage.
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roman brings record business to local food stands, amazing for local economy
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RaidenZeroX posted...

If people started leaving to go to the bathroom/concessions/home every time Roman's music hit I don't think they'd get the point, even if Roman was cutting a promo about how management hates him to an empty arena that magically fills up as soon as he goes backstage.

To play devils advocate - how exactly are they making record revenues if everyone hates the main event?
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Because people watch out of habit.
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SmartMuffin posted...

RaidenZeroX posted...

If people started leaving to go to the bathroom/concessions/home every time Roman's music hit I don't think they'd get the point, even if Roman was cutting a promo about how management hates him to an empty arena that magically fills up as soon as he goes backstage.

To play devils advocate - how exactly are they making record revenues if everyone hates the main event?

I find it interesting how much we obsess over the main event. It was an OK show, with one amazing match to kick it off. When I think back on Backlash, I'm going to remember Rollins-Miz and have a somewhat positive impression due to that. Why in the world would I let one match dictate my entire opinion of the show? I don't think most people do that, just people in forums like this.
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"But then, Cass attacked,"

'AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH! I DON'T WANNA WATCH THIS MATCH AGAIN!"
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Icehawk posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

RaidenZeroX posted...

If people started leaving to go to the bathroom/concessions/home every time Roman's music hit I don't think they'd get the point, even if Roman was cutting a promo about how management hates him to an empty arena that magically fills up as soon as he goes backstage.

To play devils advocate - how exactly are they making record revenues if everyone hates the main event?

I find it interesting how much we obsess over the main event. It was an OK show, with one amazing match to kick it off. When I think back on Backlash, I'm going to remember Rollins-Miz and have a somewhat positive impression due to that. Why in the world would I let one match dictate my entire opinion of the show? I don't think most people do that, just people in forums like this.

Uh, I'm pretty sure it was the entirety of the show everyone hated except for that one match and the AJ/Nakamura match until the finish.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Icehawk posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

RaidenZeroX posted...

If people started leaving to go to the bathroom/concessions/home every time Roman's music hit I don't think they'd get the point, even if Roman was cutting a promo about how management hates him to an empty arena that magically fills up as soon as he goes backstage.

To play devils advocate - how exactly are they making record revenues if everyone hates the main event?

I find it interesting how much we obsess over the main event. It was an OK show, with one amazing match to kick it off. When I think back on Backlash, I'm going to remember Rollins-Miz and have a somewhat positive impression due to that. Why in the world would I let one match dictate my entire opinion of the show? I don't think most people do that, just people in forums like this.

Uh, I'm pretty sure it was the entirety of the show everyone hated except for that one match and the AJ/Nakamura match until the finish.

Yeah that is so clear based on the conversation here. It has always been this way. When Cena was on top, there could be a killer show (and honestly, Cena was a great worker, and certainly didn't illicit indifference from crowds), and all anyone would talk about is Cena winning. That is all you, and most of the people here care about, who wins the main event.

AKA, YA'LL MARKS LOOOL
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RaidenZeroX posted...

I really wish they would. I want to like Roman, he doesn't seem like the nicest guy off screen but he doesn't seem like a terrible person either. He has a family to take care of. Even knowing that I still have a hard time seeing him out there because I'm just so tired of them telling me who I should and shouldn't like.

If he has a character shift where he just starts wrecking people and doesn't talk I think I could get behind that. I can't get behind the Roman they've presented the last 4 years though.

He is a terrible person.

Fuck his family.
Fuck him!!!

We live in an age with the current PPVs in NJPW. One good match does not a good show make anymore.
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yeah but no one watches those only wrestling nerdz
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Icehawk posted...

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Icehawk posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

RaidenZeroX posted...

If people started leaving to go to the bathroom/concessions/home every time Roman's music hit I don't think they'd get the point, even if Roman was cutting a promo about how management hates him to an empty arena that magically fills up as soon as he goes backstage.

To play devils advocate - how exactly are they making record revenues if everyone hates the main event?

I find it interesting how much we obsess over the main event. It was an OK show, with one amazing match to kick it off. When I think back on Backlash, I'm going to remember Rollins-Miz and have a somewhat positive impression due to that. Why in the world would I let one match dictate my entire opinion of the show? I don't think most people do that, just people in forums like this.

Uh, I'm pretty sure it was the entirety of the show everyone hated except for that one match and the AJ/Nakamura match until the finish.

Yeah that is so clear based on the conversation here. It has always been this way. When Cena was on top, there could be a killer show (and honestly, Cena was a great worker, and certainly didn't illicit indifference from crowds), and all anyone would talk about is Cena winning. That is all you, and most of the people here care about, who wins the main event.

AKA, YA'LL MARKS LOOOL

Ah, you're one of those people that doesn't realize that internet fans vastly outnumber "casual" fans these days because the casual fans have all been chased away by now.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

We live in an age with the current PPVs in NJPW. One good match does not a good show make anymore.

Me and jakyl had miz-rollins at ****1/2, aj vs shinsuke at ****. I have no idea why that match is being tossed aside due to a nonfinish. They put in good work. A wwe ppv with 2 4 star matches makes it at least passable.
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NBIceman posted...

Icehawk posted...

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Icehawk posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

RaidenZeroX posted...

If people started leaving to go to the bathroom/concessions/home every time Roman's music hit I don't think they'd get the point, even if Roman was cutting a promo about how management hates him to an empty arena that magically fills up as soon as he goes backstage.

To play devils advocate - how exactly are they making record revenues if everyone hates the main event?

I find it interesting how much we obsess over the main event. It was an OK show, with one amazing match to kick it off. When I think back on Backlash, I'm going to remember Rollins-Miz and have a somewhat positive impression due to that. Why in the world would I let one match dictate my entire opinion of the show? I don't think most people do that, just people in forums like this.

Uh, I'm pretty sure it was the entirety of the show everyone hated except for that one match and the AJ/Nakamura match until the finish.

Yeah that is so clear based on the conversation here. It has always been this way. When Cena was on top, there could be a killer show (and honestly, Cena was a great worker, and certainly didn't illicit indifference from crowds), and all anyone would talk about is Cena winning. That is all you, and most of the people here care about, who wins the main event.

AKA, YA'LL MARKS LOOOL

Ah, you're one of those people that doesn't realize that internet fans vastly outnumber "casual" fans these days because the casual fans have all been chased away by now.

I know several casual fans, my wife included. Kids also remain a core constituency of wwe. This is just you spitballing to fit a preconceived narrative. Wwe has lost viewers over the years like literally everything else on tv, nothing more.
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Icehawk posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

We live in an age with the current PPVs in NJPW. One good match does not a good show make anymore.

Me and jakyl had miz-rollins at ****1/2, aj vs shinsuke at ****. I have no idea why that match is being tossed aside due to a nonfinish. They put in good work. A wwe ppv with 2 4 star matches makes it at least passable.

First of all, good for your subjective rankings, but I did not rate those matches remotely in that sphere. And quite frankly, 40 good minutes on a 3.5 hour show in anything else but wrestling would be lambasted. I refuse to give it a pass because we've been taught to accept 3 hours of shit when it comes with a brief reprieve.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Icehawk posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

We live in an age with the current PPVs in NJPW. One good match does not a good show make anymore.

Me and jakyl had miz-rollins at ****1/2, aj vs shinsuke at ****. I have no idea why that match is being tossed aside due to a nonfinish. They put in good work. A wwe ppv with 2 4 star matches makes it at least passable.

First of all, good for your subjective rankings, but I did not rate those matches remotely in that sphere. And quite frankly, 40 good minutes on a 3.5 hour show in anything else but wrestling would be lambasted. I refuse to give it a pass because we've been taught to accept 3 hours of shit when it comes with a brief reprieve.

Then don't watch? I haven't spent much time on b8 for like 4+ years. I come back, and this topic is the same outrage machine it has always been. That's mainly what I find ridiculous. The rest of the card was mostly inoffensive in my view, but if people hate it so much, just go watch alternatives! But my personal view is people in this topic obsess over finishes and the main event as a general barometer for most wwe shows.

And I disagree with your assessment too about 40 minutes out of 3 hours. There are generally plenty of dull spots in almost any sport. People watch baseball for example. Especially fighting sports too. 2 great fights out of 8 would be a passable UFC show.
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don't forget elias, that was a pretty good segment
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It's not sports.

And also, I generally enjoy shows. I enjoyed Mania for all its bizarre booking decisions. Why can't I dislike this show? I don't need a sermon from someone who doesn't even know my viewing habits or what I enjoy to tell me not to watch. This isn't an "outrage machine" - it's a variety of opinions coming together. Maybe start attaching usernames to the opinions before you make such terrible posts.

Also, the finish of the main event is generally pretty important to a wrestling show. Or else it wouldn't be called the "main event".
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Icehawk posted...

Yeah that is so clear based on the conversation here. It has always been this way. When Cena was on top, there could be a killer show (and honestly, Cena was a great worker, and certainly didn't illicit indifference from crowds), and all anyone would talk about is Cena winning. That is all you, and most of the people here care about, who wins the main event.

AKA, YA'LL MARKS LOOOL

Well, we all talked about how awful Big Cass is and how Daniel Bryan is being wasted on him.

We discussed Carmella being meh.

We talked about Nia Jax being a total botch machine that should not be wrestling let alone champion.

I don't know if we discussed the most average dull match between Orton and Hardy. Same with the also bad KO Sami Braun Lashley match.

We discussed the horrible finish to AJ vs Nakamura.

We discussed all of these things in this topic, including the borefest that is Joe vs Roman. So it's not like everyone made their assessment on the show entirely based upon the main event.

I don't understand how you could like the show or how anyone could, but hey, do you man. But if there were good things to talk about that were worth talking a lot about, we'd discuss that. But unfortunately WWE makes more bad than good for the most part.

But don't come in here and say people are being too negative about it when you yourself also admit this show's shortcomings.
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