Board 8 > Scarlet Ranks 150 User-Nominated Wrestlers Part II

(+) Yeah! (+)

is the joke that I can't see Cena's video
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Correct
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Placement seems about right for Cena. I appreciate what he does, think he has a lot of good matches and promos, but I can only really like him so much. I know it's cliche to talk about heel turns for him but the guy could've really been great if they took the risk. Now it's too late in his career for it to really work I feel-- not that it'll ever happen anyway.

Strangely he's probably my favorite guy to TEW book though. Snatched him early in all our FWA drafts.
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I don't necessarily think it's too late for Cena. Hogan was older than this when he turned.
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Yeah but Hogan was still relatively active when he turned.

It's not the years it's the miles, man.

I guess he did make a return to turn though and was relatively less active in the year prior. In that sense maybe it's the perfect time for Cena.
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I don't know what his filming schedule is like, but staying off for a little while in order to turn sounds like just what the doctor ordered. I also wouldn't be surprised if WWE made a big play for him to turn in conjunction with the FOX launch.
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I actually photoshopped one of my Magic cards to replace a dragons face with Cena in the same kind of pose. Ill try to post it here tonight.
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#51 - Hulk Hogan Nominated by: Anagram

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlCxM-Zjfjk" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AE21-yZ8HQ" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDWalFmERhY" data-time="

Hulk Hogan was both a good and a bad promo, a good and a bad wrestler, a good and a bad influence on the industry. But he's probably more influential on the business than anyone outside of Vinnie Mac.

Its really hard to rank Hogan accurately, because his popularity was way above his abilities. And that's not to speak his in-ring abilities (which when compared to his contemporaries was quite poor). But somehow he had that magic ingredient that turns a mediocre, slow and selfish worker into the biggest star of all time. Sometimes its inertia, sometimes its a fad, and sometimes it's an ingredient that can't quite be quantified. This is the case, because if I had to rate Hulk Hogan just as a wrestler he would stop in the middle of the list (and thats being very generous, by giving much less importance to his technical skills), but his historical impact is undeniable. Its hard to imagine wrestling without Hulk Hogan. Who knows what would have happened without that character? Would Randy Savage have achieved such success and put WWF in the dominant position it was at the time? Still, giving Hulk Hogan #51 hurts like a chainsaw to the liver because I dont like him at all, but I have to acknowledge what he achieved.

At the same time, I loved Hollywood Hogan. Hollywood Hogan was supposed to be this new, brutal heel version of Hulkster. The entire NWO storyline really could only function with Hogan in the main role. Nash and Hall were both thoughtful enough to recognize what a new style of heel could be, but it took Hogan to cement the unit as a formidable triumverate of greed and lawlessness. What people forget about Hollywood is that, at the height of his title reign, he reverted back to the old Hulk Hogan and yet got the exact same reaction. Hogan ended up becoming Hulk Hogan again in terms of personality, hotdogging for the crowd, flexing, putting himself over... but now the crowd saw his long-running self-centeredness for what it was. It was like, Hogan didn't turn heel. The crowd just woke up. He'd screwed Savage, Tugboat, Sid Justice... it went back all the way to the beginning of his WWF run.

It's actually my favorite story arc out of WCW, and it's completely unintentional. But it works so well because there is a certain subtlety to it. The culmination of Hulkamania always needed to follow that old adage Harvey Dent uttered: "You either die a hero or live long enough to call yourself a villain." That's Hogan in a nutshell.

I don't really want to speak on Hogan's not-so-recent racially charged comments, but they did factor into this ranking negatively.
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Rankings So Far:

150. Jenna Morasca
149. Ashley Massaro
148. The Great Khali
147. Krissy Vaine
146. The Final Solution
145. Rhaka Khan
144. Dave Crist
143. Rosa Mendes
142. Jackie Gayda
141. Matt Taven
140. Jinder Mahal
139. Heidenreich
138. Bryan Alvarez
137. Enzo Amore
136. Dan Matha
135. The Boogeyman
134. Vladimir Kozlov
133. Santino Marella
132. Glacier
131. Muhammad Hassan
130. Torrie Wilson
129. James Ellsworth
128. Nikki Bella
127. Jay White
126. The Shockmaster
125. Hornswoggle
124. Kevin Sullivan
123. Steve Blackman
122. Barry Darsow
121. Taylor Wilde
120. Ronda Rousey
119. Bob Holly
118. Chris Kanyon
117. Vickie Guerrero
116. Chase Owens
115. Disco Inferno
114. Sasha Banks
113. MVP
112. Buff Bagwell
111. The Big Boss Man
110. Heath Slater
109. Scott Norton
108. Charlotte Flair
107. Timothy Thatcher
106. Rich Swann
105. Goldust
104. Matt Sydal
103. Kane
102. Bayley
101. Tommaso Ciampa
100. Tyler Bate
99. Taichi
98. Mark Henry
97. Terry Gordy
96. Booker T
95. Vampiro
94. Ron Simmons
93. Dusty Rhodes
92. Dynamite Kid
91. Road Warrior Hawk
90. Raven
89. Alex Wright
88. SANADA
87. WALTER
86. Lou Thesz
85. Hirooki Goto
84. Chuck Taylor
83. Juice Robinson
82. Andre the Giant
81. Maria Kanellis
80. Hayabusa
79. Josh Mathews
78. Jacques Rougeau
77. Toru Yano
76. Triple H
75. Braun Strowman
74. Kevin Nash
73. Sid Vicious
72. EVIL
71. Perry Saturn
70. Daffney
69. Awesome Kong
68. Trish Stratus
67. Miz
66. Terry Funk
65. Kota Ibushi
64. Seth Rollins
63. Bruiser Brody
62. Billy Graham
61. Naomichi Marufuji
60. Brock Lesnar
59. Roderick Strong
58. Undertaker
57. AJ Lee
56. Kairi Sane
55. Chavo Guerrero
54. Randy Savage
53. Ultimo Dragon
52. John Cena
51. Hulk Hogan

Remaining Wrestlers:

Adrian Neville (Mega Mana)
AJ Styles (Mega Mana)
Arn Anderson (Eddv)
Asuka (Snake)
Becky Lynch (Inviso)
Big Show (voltch)
Bobby Heenan (Eddv)
Bret Hart (ZeroSignal)
Brian Pillman (JONA)
Chris Jericho (Inviso)
CM Punk (ZeroSignal)
Dan Lambert (JONA)
Daniel Bryan (Inviso)
Dave Meltzer (JONA)
Dean Malenko (GOGZero)
Diamond Dallas Page (JONA)
Eddie Guerrero (Johnbobb)
Edge (ZeroSignal)
Eric Bischoff (Lopen)
Ethan Carter III (Mega Mana)
Finn Balor (Voltch)
Hiromu Takahashi (CybrMonkey)
Hiroshi Tanahashi (CybrMonkey)
Hurricane (Johnbobb)
Jake Roberts (Snake)
Jeff Hardy (Johnbobb)
Jesse Ventura (gravy)
Jushin Liger (Snake)
Kazuchika Okada (CybrMonkey)
Kenny Omega (CybrMonkey)
Kurt Angle (ZeroSignal)
KUSHIDA (Girugamesh)
Lex Luger (Tom Bombadil)
Matt Hardy (Johnbobb)
Mick Foley (Inviso)
Mickie James (Lopen)
Minoru Suzuki (CybrMonkey)
Mister Perfect (Lopen)
Pentagon (Charon)
Rey Mysterio (trdl)
Ric Flair (Inviso)
Scott Steiner (ZeroSignal)
Shawn Michaels (Inviso)
Shinsuke Nakamura (charon)
Steve Austin (trdl)
Ted DiBiase (JONA)
Tetsuya Naito (CybrMonkey)
Tomohiro Ishii (JONA)
Will Ospreay (CybrMonkey)
William Regal (IHateThisCPU)

The Remaining Nominations by User:
charon - 2
CybrMonkey - 7
Eddv - 2
Girugamesh - 1
GOGZero - 1
gravy - 1
IHateThisCPU - 1
Inviso - 6
Johnbobb - 4
JONA - 6
Lopen - 3
Mega Mana - 3
Snake - 3
Tom Bombadil - 1
trdl - 2
voltch - 2
ZeroSignal - 5
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I think my next ranking might be my most controversial yet, and someone should ping MWC for a meltdown when it happens.
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Must be Punk.
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HBK?
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Eddie Guerrero or Kurt might on. (I mean go.) >_>

I barely (remember) anything Kurt did in TNA quite frankly.

#50 - Shawn Michaels Nominated by: Inviso

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzwMUtLgo_Q" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhGKFkKFYDY" data-time="

I fucking hate Shawn Michaels.

And I think it's such a testament that such a scummy human being can rank so highly on this list. One of the ultimate backstage politicians, Shawn Michaels may have put on good matches from time to time, but the reality of the situation is this: he wasn't the draw we remember. You know who was a draw? Mike Tyson. Stone Cold. Shawn Michaels was a level above Kevin Nash as a draw, yet he had such a stranglehold on the company with his Kliq that for a long time WCW stomped the collective asses of Shawn Michaels' WWF because it was simply the Shawn Michaels show and Shawn doesn't play well with others. Shawn rarely let someone actually go over on him, and it created a world where there was Shawn and then there was everyone else with Bret occasionally loud enough and annoying enough to pester Vince into giving him the push he deserved. But too many other guys who COULD have been a major piece in the early Monday Night Wars were slaughtered by Shawn to such an extent that it was completely WCW's game to lose.

And they did, but I'm not ranking Eric Bischoff (yet).

When Shawn Michaels found God, I was unimpressed. Here's the thing about God: in wrestling, you only find the guy when you've bottomed out in all of your friendships and you need a do-over. Nowadays, of course, everyone backstage loves Shawn. But that's because it's easy to be everyone's friend when you're not trying to get over. Triple H is Dad, after all. Triple H, the guy who tried to bury everyone who wasn't the Rock or the Kliq. Shawn Michaels is cut from the same cloth as Triple H (at least when he was younger): arrogant, full of himself, uninterested in the team aspect of how the business worked. He's everything I hate in the politics of wrestling.

Yes, he's also a great worker. One of the best of his era. But imagine if he hadn't been such a whiny crybaby that his feuds allowed other workers to look good once and a while back in the 90s. Imagine that the care he took with Ric Flair or Undertaker in the late 00s existed 10 years earlier. Imagine if he hadn't lost his smile every time he lost a match. Then we'd be looking at a much higher ranking.

Oh, and I hate young Shawn Michaels promos. Aside from THAT voice coming out of THAT small guy, they are so dreadfully boring for me. Maybe it's because I wasn't exposed to Shawn Michaels' early days until years afterwards, but Bret Hart's 97 work always resonated more with me than any Shawn Michaels work prior to his return in the 21st century.
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At least he made that one match with Hogan really memorable
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Glad to see him ranked this low. He's a great worker, but a shitty human being. Deserved.
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He is the dick of dicks so yeah depending on how much outside of the ring stuff factors in it's a reasonable ranking for him. Hard to disagree with the ranking given the write-up. I personally don't weigh it nearly as high, but there was always something about Michaels that never quite clicked with me. This was before knowing of da politic.

It was probably some combination of being a Bret Hart guy, never much caring for Triple H, and his achievements always seeming kinda sketch. Like he beat Bret Hart in that Iron Man match and like, Bret literally had him in the Sharpshooter when the time limit hit. He won that Royal Rumble from #1, but that was like a 30 minute match.

If not for his feuds with Undertaker over the years (I think he excelled when he was the small guy in general, and Taker was by far the best of the lot), and a lesser extent his feud with Hogan (I unironically love that match with Hogan on that Summerslam) I'd probably have him as low too. As is, only slightly underrated imo, and completely understandable ranking.
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Write-up warmed my heart. Pretty much everyone not in the Kliq has spoken about the unrivaled king of assholes that was 90s Shawn. Aside from his theme song and his level of passion in the ring, there wasn't much I ever really liked about the guy (never much cared for his work style also, running around like a headless chicken all the time).

Oh, and I fucking hated those awkward stripteases he did during his first major face run. Skeevy guy.
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I forgot to mention one thing. I'd have to reread through Bret's book again, but I'm pretty sure HHH tried to bury The Rock in the earlier part of his career.
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I'm very pleased that there are others who don't particularly have love for Shawn Michaels, if for no other reason than I was worried I would be alone in this opinion and subject to a witch hunt.
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HBK is one of my all-time faves but I can certainly understand the case against him
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#49 - Jeff Hardy Nominated by: Johnbobb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uTCHS8KHdE" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_ANV_KiB9Q" data-time="

Jeff is somewhat of an enigma to me. A charismatic one, to be sure, but an engima nonetheless. It's clear why a certain vocal segment of the wrestling audience loves the man, but I never quite knew why I would root for Jeff. I imagine it's at least one part nostalgia, a holdover from his days as a high-flying tag team partner in the Brothers Hardy. After that fact, once Jeff became more of a singles competitor, I never really enjoyed his promos but still found myself drawn to him.

I never thought his wrestling style was particularly impressive or skilled, but I think some of that is a testament to just how effortless he makes himself look while in flight. His body certainly took a toll thanks to the extreme backyard antics he put on display, and yet I and others still condemn his self-medicating behavior to this day. Is that particularly fair? We cheer for the guy primarily thanks to a style of wrestling in which he must kill himself to get over, then we lambast him for trying to dilute the constant pain his body must be in. At the same time, a stunt like Victory Road only adds to my memories of Jeff Hardy, as I look back fondly on his non-match with Sting. It's quite a weird bag of contradictions.

As a wrestler nowadays, I think some of the love I have for Jeff is inextricably intertwined with the creative mind of modern Matt Hardy. Jeff certainly has always been the more popular brother, but he's so generous in how he gives his brother the spotlight and knows that it's okay to step back and let someone else shine for a moment. I like throughout Jeff's career and I see a guy who always was willing to do business for those around him. He consequently created some extremely memorable feuds that way. The TLC matches of the Attitude Era. Undertaker and Jeff's brief but memorable feud which culminated in one of my top two RAW matches of all time. CM Punk's opportunity to make Straight Edge really matter in a feud. And of course, the Broken Universe. All of this seems to stem from a propensity for generosity on Jeff's part, and maybe this is why I find myself drawn to Jeff as a wrestler so much. He's always been a team player despite having the charismatic toolset that could allow him to be a diva.
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I go back and forth on the Hardyz but I currently like them
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yesssss hahahaaaaaa
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I love Jeff Hardy, which is ironic because I dont in general give that much credence to a spot-led style. He just has that it factor that leads you to get into whatever hes doing.

But I just love that he is ready and willing to run with just about ANY idea that crosses his mind and I am so happy he went to TNA. I like Willow, I like the Anti-Christ of wrestling, I even liked the face belt.

I think it's fair to hold his personal demons against him but I think his creative mind led to a lot of really cool stuff.

Oh and fuck Shawn.
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Eddv posted...

I think it's fair to hold his personal demons against him but I think his creative mind led to a lot of really cool stuff.

I really don't hold them against him. I've always seen it as an unfortunate byproduct of such a reckless style.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Eddv posted...

I think it's fair to hold his personal demons against him but I think his creative mind led to a lot of really cool stuff.

I really don't hold them against him. I've always seen it as an unfortunate byproduct of such a reckless style.

Yeah. I really do think Hogan is arguably the smartest wrestler of all time for doing his like No Bump style, but give me Jeff any day.
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Tell that to Hogan's hip
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I guess delivering that many atomic leg drops does take its toll.
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He worked himself into a shoot brother.

HH
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it's murder on his hips he wants to be able to walk when he retires
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Vintage Hulk Hogan burying all the discussion about young upstarts Shawn Michaels and Jeff Hardy
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But that's why we both love and hate him!
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#48 - Big Show Nominated by: Voltch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9tsmQoj7Kc" data-time="

Well, it's the Big Show's write-up. Up until a few years ago, I would never have dreamt that Big Show would rank this highly, but here we are in the current year, and I'm going to staunchly defend the ol' lovable goof and his obsession with Destiny. Rewatching Big Show's early years, I've been impressed with the role of the Giant and how quickly he fell into it. He has a certain innate wrestling charisma that makes me believe he truly is a monster. When I look at his run in 1996, I see a guy who is clearly the top guy in the company. He switches from heel to face to heel to face quickly, and that's been a joke from the start of his career; however, in WCW, the switches actually worked really well. In essence, he's a tweener. And I bought the changes because he sells them so well with his face. Big Show presents great expression work, and that tends to be underrated in any discussion of his work.

In WWE, I think he was woefully misused quite often. Despite that, Big Show is always a guy I remember. I always think of him as a legitimate threat. He presents himself in such a way that I always believe he has a chance to win.

Outside of the ring, I would believe there is not a nicer, more wholesome guy in wrestling. He seems to be a genial, well-liked veteran in WWE, and seeing his interactions with younger talents behind the scenes always increases my opinion of him. I know that Show isn't the star of any five-star matches, but I think a lot of weight has been thrust on his shoulders over the years, and he's been up to the task of shouldering that burden. I look at his run as the first real ECW champion in WWE, and I see a guy who actually went out every week and tried to put on the best performance on the show. He was saddled with a situation outside of his control and a fanbase that rebelled at the notion of Big Show on top, but he took the hand he was dealt and he really worked his ass off to look like a dominating (if heelish) champion. Having recently watched this run, the moment he drops the title to Lashley, it feels like the entire show lets the wind out of its own sails. It's clear to me that Big Show was such a crucial part of what made that show work as well as it did (which wasn't great but still functional).

Give me more Big Shows, and I will likely change my tune on monster characters in wrestling.
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People often say Big Show was like, permanently damaged goods after a point. I honestly disagree. I think he's always been the kind of guy who could instantly be credible if he had any sort of booking behind him at the drop of a hat. It is probably a lot like you said his expressions and his presence.

Like I recently rewatched all the rumbles, and Royal Rumble I wanna say 2005... the one with the Benoit guillotine spot. Big Show is the real star of that match. I went from "lol Big Show in my initial reaction" to "holy crap Big Show is TOO BIG" and it didn't break any sort of suspension of disbelief or anything. That's what really sold me on the guy as being better than given credit for. You can't just do that with any old giant, much less one who has had as many lows in his career as Big Show has.
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Yeah I believe that anyonr who thinks Show sucked needs to go see the YETAY and Giant Gonzales and Kurrgan and so on, Giants who had no talent but size.

Khali was a good Giant. Big Show is probably the greatest ever aside from, possibly if you count them, Sid and Vader.

We are so lucky Strowman showed up before Big Show hung them up for good.
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Hell yeah Big Show.

Move Over memes aside, I love the dude.
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Big Show always seemed like a guy whose biggest problem was that due to his size, there were a lot of limitations on what he could really do in the ring and not a lot of guys are really good at dealing with them. He was a pretty solid performer, just kind of limited in who he could really work with.
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Oh ya go my show
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I kind of wonder what @JONALEON1 thinks about this ranking, too.

Surprised there's some decent love for The Giant!
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Big Show's great and watching ECW did make me like him more.

Top 50 is a good ranking for him.
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Oh cool. You were kind of quiet on your opinion of him as champ, so I was curious if it did affect your opinion.
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There were a number of things about the idea of "Big Show, ECW Champion" that were problematic, but all of them were solvable by RVD or Punk beating him for the title instead of Lashley.
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Eddv posted...

There were a number of things about the idea of "Big Show, ECW Champion" that were problematic, but all of them were solvable by RVD or Punk beating him for the title instead of Lashley.

Yep. Rob Van Dam was the right choice storyline-wise, Punk was the right choice based on the crowd. Lashley was the right choice if you are Vince McMahon and you are still under the belief that you run the WBF.
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I will even say this - Lashley would have made a fine, even good choice to World Heavyweight Champion or WWE champion. He was still green, but whatever.

Just not ECW. The guy was NOT ECW in any way, and booking him as the babyface in that situation like....no.
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He was even worse since he just walked into the match and won the title without any goodwill from the audience.
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#47 - Rey Mysterio Nominated by: trdl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpOPHiSn5yI" data-time="

Who's that falling off the list? R-E-Y.

Rey Mysterio, best known to me as the guy who yelled "JOHN! JOHN!" at Cena during his Rumble win, is a damn good wrestler. I can't ever complain about Rey's talent. There's a reason he's the indie guy kicking up the most cash these days. Even in his early 40s, Rey is a phenomenal talent. Thanks to his recent run in Lucha Underground, it feels like there's really no limit to where Rey can go. Whether he's popping up in a Rumble (and earning more Youtube views than any other wrestler this year) or teaming with the luscious locks of Tanahashi, Rey is pretty much the definition of the journeyman this year. The rebirth of the love for all things lucha has and the indie alliance renaissance are making the guy cash hand over fist, and good on him.

I have very little complaint for Rey as a talent in the ring. As a talent on mic, he's somewhat lackluster, but certain characters shouldn't be given a mic any way. It doesn't lead to good lucha thing. Rey's presence is striking and memorable, and his prowess in the ring only fuels his charisma further. I've always been a proponent of men in masks since I started watching WCW; hell, we all remember the terrible, no-good, very bad day where the highers-up down south decided that masks weren't profitable. We got the Filthy Animals in exchange. Bad deal.

Anyways, Rey is Top 50 worthy (despite what Vince McMahon seems to think of him). He's a legend, a true jaw-dropping acrobat of wrestling, an icon of multiple eras in wrestling history. Booyaka, booyaka.
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surprised hes even this low honestly

Rey Mysterio is such a blast to watch every single time
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Johnbobb posted...

surprised hes even this low honestly

Rey Mysterio is such a blast to watch every single time

It's really a matter of just not being my favorite guy at this point. It's just a huge chunk of wrestlers I really like.

Some of it might have to do with his booking.
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I'd probably rank Rey a lot lower actually. Dude has irritated me more than excited me for most of his career.

Real shame too because I do quite like his early WCW stuff, and his Lucha Underground stuff is completely fine too.

Unmasked he's wretched, but that wasn't too long so I won't hold it against him too much.

But the bigger problem is he's about the hardest guy for me to suspend disbelief for in all his other uses. Rey the giant killer was the worst thing, and WWE style Rey where he has a billion contrived ways to get a guy in position for a 619 is the worst. Also his finisher was really hard to believe except when it was the springboard hurricanrana pin. Drop the dime doesn't work cause it's a splash from a guy that weighs like 120lbs.

Also the Eddie Guerrero death exploitation. Good god.
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