Current Events > i didn't think the weapon system in BoTW was THIS BAD

(+) Yeah! (+)

i know people complained about it but holy shit

i get a weapon and i go fight some dudes and literally every big encounter i lose at least 2 weapons

but i have fucking boko clubs for days.

also im tired of being knocked back and over. for fuck sake.

AND I KEEP FUCKING STEALTHING IN COMBAT UGH
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honestly after I got over the appeal, I just skipped combat whenever possible
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prince_leo posted...

honestly after I got over the appeal, I just skipped combat whenever possible

Same here. I didn't fully get into the combat till I got the full DLC MS. By which point I had become a master at it.

Made a world of difference in terms of combat. Shit was boring otherwise without the MS.
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seriously i dread quests where i have to kill things now.
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oh god why
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Git gud
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idk, I agree that the early game can be frustrating when you don't have access to great weapons, but I got pretty used to it over time. I appreciate that it forced me to use different weapon archetypes (swords vs axes vs spears) and think creatively about how to take groups of mobs out efficiently using my whole arsenal (e.g., sneak attacks, using more arrows, bombs and other slate abilities, status boosting food, etc). I can't just barge into a camp swinging some shit around Leroy Jenkins style, it's just not worth it.
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Loved BOTW. I just cant get over the master sword being on a cool down.
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Holding 100 weapons isnt realistic. They need to limit your weapons to 2.
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chrono625 posted...

Loved BOTW. I just cant get over the master sword being on a cool down.

Personally BotW is in my top ten all-time games, and I never (not exaggerating, not once) used the Master Sword outside of Ganon fights.
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Honestly the weapon system never bothered me, and I hate weapon durability in everything.

But I did stop bothering with generic enemy camps after a few hours lol.
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The weapon durability mechanic is such bullshit. Each and every weapon feels paper thin because it only takes a few fights before they go poof. And you can't repair any of them, so what's the point in giving a shit about any weapon you come across? Even the really cool, fairly rare/unique weapons that have distinct properties to them. They all break after a few swings. It's awful.

Even the fucking Master Sword isn't exempt from this garbage. You have to wait until the goddamn thing "recharges" before you can use it again. Shit design. Super shit design.
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@endgame
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EverDownward posted...

The weapon durability mechanic is such bullshit. Each and every weapon feels paper thin because it only takes a few fights before they go poof. And you can't repair any of them, so what's the point in giving a shit about any weapon you come across? Even the really cool, fairly rare/unique weapons that have distinct properties to them. They all break after a few swings. It's awful.

Even the fucking Master Sword isn't exempt from this garbage. You have to wait until the goddamn thing "recharges" before you can use it again. Shit design. Super shit design.

Agreed.
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prince_leo posted...

I just skipped combat whenever possible

this. or just use Remote Bombs...
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How did BOTW get a perfect score from every reviewer?

This alone should have prevented that.
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EverDownward posted...

so what's the point in giving a shit about any weapon you come across?

That's the exact type of gameplay they were trying to convey, though. A weapon in BotW isn't a sentimental artifact, it's a resource. You're supposed to be no more attached to it than you are a food dish.

I said to myself that the weapon system would have been perfect if they'd just doubled the durability across the board; the weapons simply degrade too fast. And that opinion hasn't really changed much. But even still, I was able to put aside my preconceptions and really give BotW's approach a chance, and for the most part, I really enjoyed it. It really did force me to use all the different weapons that I never would have given a second glance without the degradation system, and I had a ton of fun doing so. By contrast, I think of a game like Skyrim, and all of the various weapons and even entire weapon types I'd inevitably neglect, even though I'd go into a new playthrough thinking 'okay, I'm gonna use something different this time.' And that's even in the vanilla game, before I piled on mods like Heavy Armory and Unique Uniques.

The only time the weapon system really drops the ball is with the Champion's weapons. They're just inconvenient enough to repair that they become the Megalixirs of this game, collecting dust in your inventory for just the right moment that never comes. They should have let them have cooldown regeneration like the MS (maybe half as fast), or not have included them at all.
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The weapon system is shit

I like the idea of not just using one weapon type the whole game but I would have done that in this game without the durability system
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I agree that weapons break too quickly. Even with that, the game is really easy and i never picked it up again after beating Ganon.
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masterpug53 posted...

That's the exact type of gameplay they were trying to convey, though. A weapon in BotW isn't a sentimental artifact, it's a resource. You're supposed to be no more attached to it than you are a food dish.

This is the problem. I don't necessarily need a food dish to beat the game. I need a weapon to beat the game. A weapon is infinitely more necessary than a food dish. So when you treat something as crucial as weaponry as benign as food, why should I care at all? Why should I be excited at all about anything I pick up in this game?

That's where they fumbled. I have no joy or excitement in any weapon I come across, no fun, because I know it'll be gone within minutes of use. And if it's not fun, why bother.
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EverDownward posted...

This is the problem. I don't necessarily need a food dish to beat the game. I need a weapon to beat the game. A weapon is infinitely more necessary than a food dish. So when you treat something as crucial as weaponry as benign as food, why should I care at all? Why should I be excited at all about anything I pick up in this game?

That's where they fumbled. I have no joy or excitement in any weapon I come across, no fun, because I know it'll be gone within minutes of use. And if it's not fun, why bother.

You're clearly still in the mindset that a weapon should always be a unique and precious collectible; if you aren't willing to change the way you look at things, then obviously this aspect of BotW will never appeal to you. The fact that your Royal Sword will break is mitigated just fine by the fact that you'll eventually find a dozen more in your travels, and in the meantime you'll use up your multitude of other various weapons.
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masterpug53 posted...

EverDownward posted...

This is the problem. I don't necessarily need a food dish to beat the game. I need a weapon to beat the game. A weapon is infinitely more necessary than a food dish. So when you treat something as crucial as weaponry as benign as food, why should I care at all? Why should I be excited at all about anything I pick up in this game?

That's where they fumbled. I have no joy or excitement in any weapon I come across, no fun, because I know it'll be gone within minutes of use. And if it's not fun, why bother.

You're clearly still in the mindset that a weapon should always be a unique and precious collectible; if you aren't willing to change the way you look at things, then obviously this aspect of BotW will never appeal to you. The fact that your Royal Sword will break is mitigated just fine by the fact that you'll eventually find a dozen more in your travels, and in the meantime you'll use up your multitude of other various weapons.

This sort of mindset works in something like a roguelite, where death is quick and your weapons disappear quicker, but Zelda, not even Breath of the Wild, is a roguelite.
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I didn't mind the weapon system at all. The only thing I would have liked is the option to repair the unique weapons you get (like the weapons you earn from the four tribes) or a way in-game to recharge the Master Sword. That way they could still keep the design intact while allowing players to opportunity to actually use the weapons we only get one of.

I simply wanted more meaningful enemies, weapons and items. Why even bother with the camps? Pointless upgrades? More unique encounters and reason to go off the path would be nice.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

How did BOTW get a perfect score from every reviewer?

This alone should have prevented that.

Because it's not an issue for everyone. It's a deliberate design decision.

Dragonblade01 posted...

I didn't mind the weapon system at all. The only thing I would have liked is the option to repair the unique weapons you get (like the weapons you earn from the four tribes) or a way in-game to recharge the Master Sword. That way they could still keep the design intact while allowing players to opportunity to actually use the weapons we only get one of.

I think you can rebuy those unique weapons but you need specific resources IIRC.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

How did BOTW get a perfect score from every reviewer?

This alone should have prevented that.

They were probably paid off lol or probably just played enough before it got stale and boring and you could see the issues.
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You can mod the game to make the weapons unbreakable. Made it so much better, it's ridiculous.
You can also mod it so the UI fits a DS4 controller, which perfected the game.

Cranie posted...

You can mod the game to make the weapons unbreakable. Made it so much better, it's ridiculous.
You can also mod it so the UI fits a DS4 controller, which perfected the game.

On the Switch? Or just the Wii U version?
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DoctorVader posted...

Cranie posted...

You can mod the game to make the weapons unbreakable. Made it so much better, it's ridiculous.
You can also mod it so the UI fits a DS4 controller, which perfected the game.

On the Switch? Or just the Wii U version?

I played the Wii U version on PC using CEMU emulator. It can be done entirely legally btw.

I dealt with that by hurling a bomb, swapping ti the ither bomb and throwing that, and swapping back to the first bomb since itd be off cooldown by then.
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Cranie posted...

played the Wii U version on PC using CEMU emulator

This is not legal.
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_BIueMonk posted...

i get a weapon and i go fight some dudes and literally every big encounter i lose at least 2 weapons

Eventually you will reach a point where your weapons don't suck and you'll end up constantly having a full inventory
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It is going to annoy both compulsive types and those who can't deal with loss. I like flux in games. Everything being permanent is standard, but increasingly lame.

It didn't bother me that much. Once I was a few hours into the game, and had more than eight slots filled with stalchild arms and wooden clubs I eventually started to find that I have too many weapons and regularly had to go through my inventory to make room for better ones I find.
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This changes very quickly

Early game: ah fuck I lost another weapon, now all I have is two boko clubs and a tree branch!
Late game: Urgh, ANOTHER great flamesword? I don't have space in my inventory for this
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inventory management is one of the least fun activities you can do in a video game, idk why botw made it such a central concept
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how meaningful is weapon diversity in this game? do weapons play meaningfully differently than swords?

I also loved how it completely subverted the Zelda formula of heralding weapons that are commonly found in other games. It was ridiculous how you'd do a three hour dungeon to get one bow and arrow, when in GTA you were finding weapons left and right. It was so out of date gameplay wise. I get building up a weapon in the old NES Zelda when it was a revolution to have anything other than one weapon the entire game. In a game like Skyward Sword, it's ridiculous.

I knew I'd love Breath of the Wild when in the first five minutes of gameplay I found the bow and arrow not in some massive chest with a lengthy cinematic, but just laying on the ground like nothing, and it broke within the next five minutes. That was such a radical departure that it was awesome. I knew it would piss people off too. People that probably needed to be pissed off.

I definitely think at the least, the Master Sword should have been unlimited. I know it would make most the other weapons pointless, but that's fine -- you'd still have the option of using them if you wanted.

You could even make other weapons more powerful if you give them suitable drawbacks (like the Biggoron Sword in OoT).
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CapnMuffin posted...

Git gud

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Romulox28 posted...

inventory management is one of the least fun activities you can do in a video game, idk why botw made it such a central concept

The inventory system in botw is hardly complex, and you get unlimited space for food, crafting items, and clothing. It's not a central concept by any means.
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It's a bad system. It's not game breaking but it doesn't add to the game either.

Early game you're stuck with a bunch of clubs and arms making you want to avoid combat.

Late game you have so many great weapons it's just a nuisance to change weapons every three kills.
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The durability system made each encounter more tense and you actually had to think about each encounter instead of going "HUR DUR LET ME MASH B BUTTON!!!".

It was far from perfect though, weapons were way too easy to break and the Master Sword having a durability system made it feel much less powerful.
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Bloodychess posted...

Romulox28 posted...

inventory management is one of the least fun activities you can do in a video game, idk why botw made it such a central concept

The inventory system in botw is hardly complex, and you get unlimited space for food, crafting items, and clothing. It's not a central concept by any means.

I think he's talking more about how you spend a lot of time deciding which weapons to keep and which to throw away. That really is a big part of the game.

Compare to a typical JRPG - the inventory management is certainly more complex but you can also generally ignore it until you feel like dealing with it. BotW forces you to consider it every time you decide to fight or pick up gear.
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Bloodychess posted...

Romulox28 posted...

inventory management is one of the least fun activities you can do in a video game, idk why botw made it such a central concept

The inventory system in botw is hardly complex, and you get unlimited space for food, crafting items, and clothing. It's not a central concept by any means.

i only put in like 10 hours into botw so i dont know if it changes, but i mean inventory management in regards to weapons.

it felt like i was constantly managing my weapons, so im saving the good ones and then using up the boko clubs or w/e. and then i'd find a new weapon and say "ok i'll drop this one and put this one in, this one is reserved for boss fights or something" and shit like that.

it's just not fun to me at all. i dont want to micromanage my weapons and have to use weapons that aren't effective or fun because im saving the good ones for later.

if this was a survival game or horror game or something it'd make more sense but this design feels very odd when BOTW is touted as this giant sandbox, do whatever you want kind of game. honestly i felt that way for a lot of BOTW's design, i really disliked this game. might give it another go though
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what makes weapon durability "strategic"

I always wonder, what alternative do people who hate durability want in the game? Because every alternative I hear sucks way worse. In nearly every other game, 99% of the weapons are entirely pointless because everything is on a straight boring stats hierarchy that, once earned, you never have to feel threatened at all. Once you got the great weapon, it's yours forever and all the other weapons you've used were simply stalling you to get the weapon you really wanted. I don't BotW does it perfectly, but it's the right idea particularly if you want a non-linear game that's not, start at 0 and get to 100. Because even when you get 100, 100 can break. So 20 might be necessary again.

Illuminoius posted...

what makes weapon durability "strategic"

Nothing. It's just some BS people spout because they think it made it super strategic and challenging, when in actuality it annoyed most people.
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Darmik posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

How did BOTW get a perfect score from every reviewer?

This alone should have prevented that.

Because it's not an issue for everyone. It's a deliberate design decision.

And here's the irony in the situation. Most gamers of a critical mind would tell you that mass appeal is something to be avoided or even shamed, and games with more selective appeal are generally of a higher quality and more worthy of respect. However, when a game has an element of selective appeal that doesn't work out in their favor - like BotW's weapon system, which quite clearly appeals to other gamers but doesn't appeal to them - they can't accept that it's just not their cup of tea: they have to lose their heads over it, adamantly claiming it's a game-breaking flaw, claiming that reviewers must have been paid off, etc.
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The games fine but i dont want these things in my Zelda game.....imo
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